Getting into psych

[studentdoctor5050]

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First time poster here. Long time reader.

I've seen a lot of post regarding the increasing competitiveness in psych. I am a 2nd year student and honestly don't think I would be happy doing anything but psych. I am in the top of my DO class and hope that I am able to preform the same on boards, but I still have the concern about not being able to do this specialty due to the increasing competitiveness.

So my question is, should I be worried about matching somewhere in psych? And is it ok to continue to focus on class work and boards for now and find opportunities to express my interest in the field 3rd and 4th year?

Thanks for any input

 

[Mad Jack]

First time poster here. Long time reader.

I've seen a lot of post regarding the increasing competitiveness in psych. I am a 2nd year student and honestly don't think I would be happy doing anything but psych. I am in the top of my DO class and hope that I am able to preform the same on boards, but I still have the concern about not being able to do this specialty due to the increasing competitiveness.

So my question is, should I be worried about matching somewhere in psych? And is it ok to continue to focus on class work and boards for now and find opportunities to express my interest in the field 3rd and 4th year?

Thanks for any input

I'll let you know after the cycle is over brah

 

[Peach Newport]

Psych is really not competitive, despite what some people have been saying. I noticed some of those people were really referring to the increased competitiveness of top and desirable locations.

The “rise in competitiveness” really just means that, a few years ago, someone with several board failures and an overall terrible application could match psych if they didnt want rural FM. Nowadays, you actually have demonstrate genuine interest in the field, and some places may want your board scores to be at least “below average” instead of “borderline failing.” (If you apply broadly). More competitive? Sure. Competitive like EM or OB? No way.

My DO school, which SDN rips on nonstop, matched 5 people to university ACGME psych. Those are not the numbers of a “competitive” field.

Top psych places in great locations are still going to be blisteringly competitive. A DO is going to have a hell of a time getting into McLean or Uchicago.

But the fact is, despite the potential for a great lifestyle, medical students are an incredibly insecure bunch. We didn’t go to medical school to call ourselves “psychiatrists!”

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Make sure you apply very VERY early.

 

[deleted407021]

Last I heard, only 4% of med students go into Psych each year. There’s apparently growing interest but it’s still a wide open field, to my understanding.

 

[Jinxapotato]

I just did a psyc rotation. The doc told me yes it is getting more difficult than it used to, but nothing crazy.... It's like going from Family med difficulty to internal med difficulty...Get around the average on USMLE and you'll get somewhere.

 

[QueenJames]

Last 3 people I know who were gung-ho about psych in 2nd year changed their tune after their 3rd year rotation.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Psych had an up year last year, and appears to be on the upswing. Nothing too difficult. I do not believe you even need to be average to get in, just do better than barely passing.

I am surprised people are so interested honestly. Maybe its the SDN effect? Cash only practices? Not sure, but it can be a good fit for some folks, and it is definitely very different from the rest of medicine.

 

[DocWinter]

You'll really be fine. Psych is not competitive. Seems like every specialty everywhere is talked about this rise in competition...it's mainly neuroticism. Psych still is on the same plane as peds and family regarding accessibility.

 

[Candidate2017]

You'll really be fine. Psych is not competitive. Seems like every specialty everywhere is talked about this rise in competition...it's mainly neuroticism. Psych still is on the same plane as peds and family regarding accessibility.

False. There were less than a handful of unfilled psych spots during last year's match (maybe 0-2 spots?). About 50% of FM spots are unfilled.

 

[Candidate2017]

First time poster here. Long time reader.

I've seen a lot of post regarding the increasing competitiveness in psych. I am a 2nd year student and honestly don't think I would be happy doing anything but psych. I am in the top of my DO class and hope that I am able to preform the same on boards, but I still have the concern about not being able to do this specialty due to the increasing competitiveness.

So my question is, should I be worried about matching somewhere in psych? And is it ok to continue to focus on class work and boards for now and find opportunities to express my interest in the field 3rd and 4th year?

Thanks for any input

Focus on auditions. Psychiatry programs look at the entire candidate. Be well-liked by residents, attendings, staff and you will match.

 

[Peach Newport]

False. There were less than a handful of unfilled psych spots during last year's match (maybe 0-2 spots?). About 50% of FM spots are unfilled.

False. There were less than a handful of unfilled psych spots during last year's match (maybe 0-2 spots?). About 50% of FM spots are unfilled.

False. There were less than a handful of unfilled psych spots during last year's match (maybe 0-2 spots?). About 50% of FM spots are unfilled.

50%? That’s seems... high. I’m suspicious of that number, please cite source.

One way or another, the number of unmatched spots is specific, but not sensitive, for an uncompetitive field.

 

[IslandStyle808]

You'll really be fine. Psych is not competitive. Seems like every specialty everywhere is talked about this rise in competition...it's mainly neuroticism. Psych still is on the same plane as peds and family regarding accessibility.

There was a 6% drop in there percent matching on the MD side from 2014-2016 (96% and 90% MD match respectively). DOs matched at 77% on the ACGME side in 2016. Family medicine and Peds are at 90% and 88% match rate on the DO side respectively. The OPs concern is valid.

With that being said, DOs still match fine into the field. As long as one is not a student with board failures for example, one should be fine.

 

[NontradCA]

First time poster here. Long time reader.

I've seen a lot of post regarding the increasing competitiveness in psych. I am a 2nd year student and honestly don't think I would be happy doing anything but psych. I am in the top of my DO class and hope that I am able to preform the same on boards, but I still have the concern about not being able to do this specialty due to the increasing competitiveness.

So my question is, should I be worried about matching somewhere in psych? And is it ok to continue to focus on class work and boards for now and find opportunities to express my interest in the field 3rd and 4th year?

Thanks for any input

No you shouldn’t be worried and yes focus on class and boards.

 

[DocWinter]

False. There were less than a handful of unfilled psych spots during last year's match (maybe 0-2 spots?). About 50% of FM spots are unfilled.

The number of unfilled FM spots has limited relevancy and I suspect those numbers to be wrong. Please cite your sources.
FM, peds and psych are considered non competitive fields to match into and the below average candidate can easily find a spot there.

 

[DocWinter]

There was a 6% drop in there percent matching on the MD side from 2014-2016 (96% and 90% MD match respectively). DOs matched at 77% on the ACGME side in 2016. Family medicine and Peds are at 90% and 88% match rate on the DO side respectively. The OPs concern is valid.

With that being said, DOs still match fine into the field. As long as one is not a student with board failures for example, one should be fine.

Thanks for the stats. There are many open AOA psych spots yearly as well which DO applicants fail to take advantage of as many bypass the match.
Failure to match is more likely due to poor decision making and poor applicant, which the OP appears to be neither.

 

[starri]

Thanks for the stats. There are many open AOA psych spots yearly as well which DO applicants fail to take advantage of as many bypass the match.
Failure to match is more likely due to poor decision making and poor applicant, which the OP appears to be neither.

There weren't that many, from what I remember.

 

[DocWinter]

There weren't that many, from what I remember.

12 of 72 unfilled or 16.6% according to natmatch.com. I consider that significant. In comparison ER had 1.0%, GS had 4.5%.

The above poster who claimed 50% unmatched FM was incorrect, assuming we are still discussing AOA. 349 of 960 or 36.4% went unmatched. Peds - 10 of 50 unfilled, 20%. Psych may not be an absolute got-a-pulse-get-a-slot shooin but it is very accessible to students of every level of competition, with many open slots available similar to peds and not far from FM

 

[starri]

Oh, I'm not saying that it's super-competitive. And I think some of the vacancies skew the numbers because there are relatively few AOA psych residencies, and there are even fewer this year. I don't remember a single ACGME psych open spot once SOAP opened last year.

 

[hallowmann]

First time poster here. Long time reader.

I've seen a lot of post regarding the increasing competitiveness in psych. I am a 2nd year student and honestly don't think I would be happy doing anything but psych. I am in the top of my DO class and hope that I am able to preform the same on boards, but I still have the concern about not being able to do this specialty due to the increasing competitiveness.

So my question is, should I be worried about matching somewhere in psych? And is it ok to continue to focus on class work and boards for now and find opportunities to express my interest in the field 3rd and 4th year?

Thanks for any input

Focus on boards, rotations, and showing interest. Apply broadly ACGME psych. Include a good range of programs from competitive to not. You'll be fine. The people who are surprised expect to walk into psych as if its owed to them, they have red flags, or they just don't apply broadly enough. You have control over that. There are plenty of decent programs out there that take DOs, especially in the midwest.

Psych had an up year last year, and appears to be on the upswing. Nothing too difficult. I do not believe you even need to be average to get in, just do better than barely passing.

I am surprised people are so interested honestly. Maybe its the SDN effect? Cash only practices? Not sure, but it can be a good fit for some folks, and it is definitely very different from the rest of medicine.

Psych has been up for the last 2-3 yrs, not just last year. There has been significantly increased interest, with applications going up across the board for psych programs. You are right though that many people don't really know what they are signing up for when they decide psych. A lot are looking at it for lifestyle, when in reality its pretty grueling from an emotional and SW standpoint.

False. There were less than a handful of unfilled psych spots during last year's match (maybe 0-2 spots?). About 50% of FM spots are unfilled.

Come on guys, this data isn't hard to find. Its all online at natmatch or nrmp. On the AOA side, its already been posted. As for the ACGME side, there were 4 open categorical psych spots after the match (out of 1495 that entered the match - 99.7% filled), so still a handful, but double what you guessed.

You're also WAYYYY off for FM. Again, AOA stat was already mentioned, but the NRMP stats are 141 spots unfilled after the match (out of 3356 that entered the match - 95.8% filled).

2017 NRMP Match Report for more details.

There was a 6% drop in there percent matching on the MD side from 2014-2016 (96% and 90% MD match respectively). DOs matched at 77% on the ACGME side in 2016. Family medicine and Peds are at 90% and 88% match rate on the DO side respectively. The OPs concern is valid.

With that being said, DOs still match fine into the field. As long as one is not a student with board failures for example, one should be fine.

I don't think MD match percentage is the best way to evaluate competitiveness, but there were just a ton more applications over the last few years. It was harder, but its still attainable for an average DO student.

12 of 72 unfilled or 16.6% according to natmatch.com. I consider that significant. In comparison ER had 1.0%, GS had 4.5%.

The above poster who claimed 50% unmatched FM was incorrect, assuming we are still discussing AOA. 349 of 960 or 36.4% went unmatched. Peds - 10 of 50 unfilled, 20%. Psych may not be an absolute got-a-pulse-get-a-slot shooin but it is very accessible to students of every level of competition, with many open slots available similar to peds and not far from FM

Thanks for actually using data, I'm so surprised at how much speculation is on these threads right now, when the data is right there.

2017 AOA Match Statistics for anyone who wants it.

Oh, I'm not saying that it's super-competitive. And I think some of the vacancies skew the numbers because there are relatively few AOA psych residencies, and there are even fewer this year. I don't remember a single ACGME psych open spot once SOAP opened last year.

There were 4 open before the SOAP, but programs can choose to participate in the SOAP or not. From what I recall they were actually there, but they filled quick.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't think MD match percentage is the best way to evaluate competitiveness, but there were just a ton more applications over the last few years. It was harder, but its still attainable for an average DO student.

I agree, unfortunately we don't have 2 data sets for osteopathic students since this is the first charting outcomes. So I drew an inference based on the MD matching from the most recent 2. It wouldn't be to far fetched to say that DO match rates would be affected, but we don't know how much exactly. Overall, DOs are still fine for the match.

 

[deleted888443]

Last i heard you need atleast 500 combined step 1+2 ck, but even then as a DO i think you'll need to stick with mostly community programs with half IMGs

just kidding, I have no idea what im talking about. Youll get the bag for sure.

 

[MADD!!!]

Take a look at pg. 124: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

You'll see looking through the Psych section, what the Psych PD's focus on is very different than most other specialties. They ranked USMLE step 1 at a 3.7.... which for anyone who's familiar with this chart THAT'S REALLY LOW. Step 2 was higher but not by much. But look at the value they gave to MSPE and Letters of Recc...... so yea, your letters of Rec. actually hold more weight than your Step 1 score. Psych is unique because they want ppl who WANT to go to Psych. Many apply to Psych as backup options, last minute options, or ppl who just don't wan to do primary care but have low grades/scores. (source: a residency coordinator and resident at a local psych residency near my school).

Another thing to note (my fav., loll) is that 35% of PD's OFTEN will consider students who have failed the boards once, while 64% will sometimes consider. Those my friend, are very good odds in your favor. If you love Psych and let it show and just focus on doing your best, you'll make it somewhere. May not be your first pick depending on your scores, but you should match.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Take a look at pg. 124: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

You'll see looking through the Psych section, what the Psych PD's focus on is very different than most other specialties. They ranked USMLE step 1 at a 3.7.... which for anyone who's familiar with this chart THAT'S REALLY LOW. Step 2 was higher but not by much. But look at the value they gave to MSPE and Letters of Recc...... so yea, your letters of Rec. actually hold more weight than your Step 1 score. Psych is unique because they want ppl who WANT to go to Psych. Many apply to Psych as backup options, last minute options, or ppl who just don't wan to do primary care but have low grades/scores. (source: a residency coordinator and resident at a local psych residency near my school).

Another thing to note (my fav., loll) is that 35% of PD's OFTEN will consider students who have failed the boards once, while 64% will sometimes consider. Those my friend, are very good odds in your favor. If you love Psych and let it show and just focus on doing your best, you'll make it somewhere. May not be your first pick depending on your scores, but you should match.

Great info there, and if I was a psych director I would be concerned about the same things. Medical boards only have some relevance in psych (most psych refuse to do medical management, to the point of annoyance), so commitment to the field is much more important.