Getting Involved With Research vs Faculty

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Hello everyone! Incoming MS1 here.

I am not very interested in doing research. However, I do think I am interested in getting involved with the school I will attend, probably with admissions. I am conflicted, though, because I feel like research is what everyone does to help with obtaining a better residency.

Is there any benefit that would come from being involved with the school, or should I suck it up and get involved with research? I feel like I would enjoy being involved with the school, but I do not want to waste my time if it is not going to help me at all with my future.

 

[Elessar]

Do what you're most interested in, it's very common for students to get involved with their school on some level (admissions, curriculum, student government). For many residencies, having a research powerhouse application isn't that important.

However, if you're shooting for a super competitive specialty (derm, ortho, ent, uro, etc.) then research should be first priority.

 

[Lannister]

Why can't you do both? Getting involved with admissions isn't a huge time requirement.

 

[darmalee]

Hello everyone! Incoming MS1 here.

I am not very interested in doing research. However, I do think I am interested in getting involved with the school I will attend, probably with admissions. I am conflicted, though, because I feel like research is what everyone does to help with obtaining a better residency.

Is there any benefit that would come from being involved with the school, or should I suck it up and get involved with research? I feel like I would enjoy being involved with the school, but I do not want to waste my time if it is not going to help me at all with my future.

I think that you should not do research (or anything for that matter), just to check the block and do research. If you are interested in research, there is a wide variety in levels of commitment depending on the particular project you get involved in. I will say - I went into medicals school thinking that I was not a research person at all because the only research type things I had been tangentially exposed to (no actual research experience in undergrad) was bench research. I am still positive that I would hate bench research but I found clinical research to be a lot of fun. My one caveat is that if you do find yourself falling in love with one of the few specialties that is uber-competitive and research is basically mandatory, you may need to suck it up and do some research. But there are plenty of specialities out there who don't absolutely require them and I know tons of people who matched into their top choices with no research at all.

That being said, you can absolutely do both and both are beneficial to you in different ways. I was heavily involved in admissions as well as various other things throughout my time in medical school and also did two distinct research projects. You have time, you just have to learn how to allot it. Being involved in your school in something like admissions does look good on your CV when applying to residency but again - don't do something just to pad your CV.

The baseline advise that I give to all incoming MS1s that I work with (one of the other big ways I was involved at my school was through an organized mentorship program) is to not get too over-ambitious with picking up obligations as soon as you show up. You have plenty of time to do things that will enhance your experience as well as flesh out your CV. Your absolute number one focus should be medical school classes. If after that first block or module or semester (depending on how your school breaks it down) you are crushing it and feel like you could add something else without your grades suffering, pick up one thing that you're really interested in. If that one thing doesn't weigh you down, you feel like you could handle something else, and there's something else that excites you, do that too.

Again I cannot stress enough that you have plenty of time. It's four whole years. I didn't start either of my research projects until my second year and had more than enough time to complete them to satisfaction. But all the impressive school involvement and research projects cannot overcome terrible academic performances and while Step 1 is way more important than grades - the easiest way to set yourself up for Step studying is to have learned it all really well the first time around.

TL;DR - Patience, young grasshopper. Enjoy your summer. Chill out. Sleep a lot. It will be here before you know it and you shouldn't waste too much time being anxious about it now. 🙂

 

[Datypicalpremed]

Do not do research during your MS1 (and especially MS2) for the sake of bumping up your resume. Knew a Dermgunner who did this, was absolutely miserable and at most contributed toward a poster (which hasn't even been presented yet).

Just enjoy your summer. If you are like the other 99% of incoming students you will grossly underestimate the amount of work in medical school and the more you relax now, the more prepared you will be when all s**t hits the fan.

 

[mcloaf]

Do not do research during your MS1 (and especially MS2) for the sake of bumping up your resume. Knew a Dermgunner who did this, was absolutely miserable and at most contributed toward a poster (which hasn't even been presented yet).

Just enjoy your summer. If you are like the other 99% of incoming students you will grossly underestimate the amount of work in medical school and the more you relax now, the more prepared you will be when all s**t hits the fan.

While I don't think it's necessarily worth it to start research before medical school, the idea that one shouldn't do any research during and/or between M1 and M2 is not good advice (especially when your supporting evidence is "I know a guy"). If you are interested in academics or something competitive you will need research on your CV and there's no better time in medical school to do it.

 

[Datypicalpremed]

While I don't think it's necessarily worth it to start research before medical school, the idea that one shouldn't do any research during and/or between M1 and M2 is not good advice (especially when your supporting evidence is "I know a guy"). If you are interested in academics or something competitive you will need research on your CV and there's no better time in medical school to do it.

Valid point. What I meant to convey to the OP was that he/she shouldn't make plans to start research during the school year before first seeing how much is on the plate. Personally, I think priorities in the first 2 years should be doing well in classes and building up the foundation for the boards. This is a challenge for a lot of people. If OP is struggling to do this, then making that commitment to research as well probably isn't a good idea. If OP realizes that this isn't too bad, feels he/she can find time to do research without adversely affecting said priorities, can find a project he/she can (at least to a certain degree) enjoy and meaningfully contribute towards...then sure, sounds like a solid plan.


Besides, it's usually not until some time into the first year when most students have even a remote idea of which fields they are interested in. This will probably play a huge role in deciding which research project you get involved with in the first place. Plus there's the free time during the summer between MS1 and MS2 to do research, which at least from what I've seen is when most people do research anyways. So relax OP and enjoy the summer while you can 😉

 

[Jumb0]

Do not do research during your MS1 (and especially MS2) for the sake of bumping up your resume. Knew a Dermgunner who did this, was absolutely miserable and at most contributed toward a poster (which hasn't even been presented yet).

Just enjoy your summer. If you are like the other 99% of incoming students you will grossly underestimate the amount of work in medical school and the more you relax now, the more prepared you will be when all s**t hits the fan.

But what if, depsite your lack of interest in research, you aspire to go into something competitive and research-heavy like that derm-gunner guy you knew?
Just because you don't love research doesn't mean you aren't cut out to be a dermatologist. In reality, the overwhelming majority of attending dermatologists do zero research in their day to day lives. Same for neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, etc.
My point is that, if you want to win, have to play the game. And if one of those competitive specialties is your idea of "winning," then research is the game you must play.
In light of this, the story of the "derm-gunner" is actually pretty unfortunate. He was just a guy who was trying to follow his dreams and failed. Whether we like it or not, the fact of the matter is that research is pretty much mandatory for certain specialties nowadays...

 

[Datypicalpremed]

But what if, depsite your lack of interest in research, you aspire to go into something competitive and research-heavy like that derm-gunner guy you knew?
Just because you don't love research doesn't mean you aren't cut out to be a dermatologist. In reality, the overwhelming majority of attending dermatologists do zero research in their day to day lives. Same for neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, etc.
My point is that, if you want to win, have to play the game. And if one of those competitive specialties is your idea of "winning," then research is the game you must play.
In light of this, the story of the "derm-gunner" is actually pretty unfortunate. He was just a guy who was trying to follow his dreams and failed. Whether we like it or not, the fact of the matter is that research is pretty much mandatory for certain specialties nowadays...

If the OP feels like he/she absolutely needs to do research to be competitive (despite not liking it), then the OP probably will. Would highly recommend doing it in the summer between MS1 and MS2 though so it's not as painful. My advice was more towards letting the OP wait before committing to research until only after they knew it was feasible during the school year.

IMHO, nothings worse than doing a research project you hate. Would rather bite the bullet and spend the extra time studying for a higher step. Or networking with attendings in <insert competitive field> to get a better LOR. Or getting more involved with admissions/student government/etc to get more "popular" to increase my chances for that sweet AOA (especially if AOA is as political as it is at my school). But that's just my opinion.

As for the dermgunner, I wouldn't exactly say he failed (he's still gunning😉). He was able to keep up with the material while going to his lab every now and then...but got caught in the unfortunate zone of not contributing enough to the research to get something out of it while doing slightly worse on the step than he wanted due to the time commitment. He's still got a chance though...

 

[gcuddles]

But what if, depsite your lack of interest in research, you aspire to go into something competitive and research-heavy like that derm-gunner guy you knew?
Just because you don't love research doesn't mean you aren't cut out to be a dermatologist. In reality, the overwhelming majority of attending dermatologists do zero research in their day to day lives. Same for neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, etc.
My point is that, if you want to win, have to play the game. And if one of those competitive specialties is your idea of "winning," then research is the game you must play.
In light of this, the story of the "derm-gunner" is actually pretty unfortunate. He was just a guy who was trying to follow his dreams and failed. Whether we like it or not, the fact of the matter is that research is pretty much mandatory for certain specialties nowadays...

I'd actually argue this...academic neurosurgeons do a LOT of research - it's part of what keeps their institutions competitive. residents are given a protected research year (though admittedly not all choose to do research). Some of the attendings at my university have their own basic science labs. Can't speak for other specialties since I'm not involved in them, but neurosurgeons do a lot of research, which is in part why research is such an important component of a competitive residency app.

 

[ScottTenorman54]

I'd actually argue this...academic neurosurgeons do a LOT of research - it's part of what keeps their institutions competitive. residents are given a protected research year (though admittedly not all choose to do research). Some of the attendings at my university have their own basic science labs. Can't speak for other specialties since I'm not involved in them, but neurosurgeons do a lot of research, which is in part why research is such an important component of a competitive residency app.

So question for nobody in particular derived from this post - Say you gun for a super competitive specialty, and do research towards that end, even though you don't really like research and are just sucking it up for the time being. That research helps get you into a residency in that specialty at some bigshot academic medical center. At that point, can you drop any pretense of interest in research and go about your life (kinda like how the burning desire to do primary care in underserved areas suddenly disappears after one gets a med school acceptance), or is the expectation that you'll continue to do solid research through the residency? I have a feeling PDs would not like that very much at all, but do people still do that?

 

[darmalee]

So question for nobody in particular derived from this post - Say you gun for a super competitive specialty, and do research towards that end, even though you don't really like research and are just sucking it up for the time being. That research helps get you into a residency in that specialty at some bigshot academic medical center. At that point, can you drop any pretense of interest in research and go about your life (kinda like how the burning desire to do primary care in underserved areas suddenly disappears after one gets a med school acceptance), or is the expectation that you'll continue to do solid research through the residency? I have a feeling PDs would not like that very much at all, but do people still do that?

I think that if you don't want to do academics you probably won't have to do much in the way of research in residency, unless of course you are in a program that has protected research time, like the above poster was saying with the dedicated year for neurosurgery. Some programs will have research requirements specific to those programs but I don't think that the expectation is that every single person in a competitive speciality will be a hardcore research fanatic throughout residency. I may be wrong, but that's my gut instinct on it.

If you want to do academics, different story. Gotta play the research game in that case.

 

[gcuddles]

So question for nobody in particular derived from this post - Say you gun for a super competitive specialty, and do research towards that end, even though you don't really like research and are just sucking it up for the time being. That research helps get you into a residency in that specialty at some bigshot academic medical center. At that point, can you drop any pretense of interest in research and go about your life (kinda like how the burning desire to do primary care in underserved areas suddenly disappears after one gets a med school acceptance), or is the expectation that you'll continue to do solid research through the residency? I have a feeling PDs would not like that very much at all, but do people still do that?

I'd pretty much agree with the poster above me, but note that this really changes per specialty. PDs aren't naive: they understand what is required of applicants in their specialty, and they (usually) have enough experience talking to students (interviewing, at the very least) that they can probably distinguish between genuine interest in research and those who do it because it's expected. There are advantages and disadvantages to each type of person, tbh, and programs probably aim for a balance.

Some residency programs (both in different specialties and from program to program within a specialty) really heavily emphasize research, either basic science OR clinical, during residency years. Honestly, if you hate research, these programs won't feel like a good fit on either end. As you do your residency apps and interviews, you'll get a feel for which programs have a large research component and those that just want you to operate/practice medicine. Worst comes, if you really dislike research, get a med student to do chart reviews for you about a procedure that doesn't have a lot of evidence to support it over an alternative; you get through residency and then get to do what you want as an attending. As in undergrad, as in med school, as in residency: sometimes we do things we don't want to because it gets us to where we're going. The cycle doesn't. ever. end.

 

[turayza]

If you are interested in admissions, you may enjoy doing research in medical education/quality improvement. Not sure if all schools are engaged in studying their own students, but mine sure does (we get a crap ton of surveys, and a bunch of data analyses to show for it). LCME re-accreditation requires schools to have a student-performed analysis of various educational factors (satisfaction with clinical teaching, pre-clinical teaching, preparedness for step 1, residency, diversity, etc) and that may be a research-y thing that you may enjoy working on. It never hurts to ask your admissions or curriculum coordinator if there is a research-related role that you could engage in that they have ongoing work in.