"Getting over" anxiety issues

[DVMorBust]

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I agree that there is no excuse for an animal to come in tick INFESTED, but I firmly believe that ticks are taking over the world. I'm in a high-tick area, and take my dog on frequent off-leash walks. The first year I had him I used Frontline, but it didn't work. They were resistant to it or something. I switched to Advantix and that worked well for the past 2 summers (never found an engorged tick on him) but this spring he's had 2 engorged ticks and 1 not engorged tick already. And I put Advantix on religiously 9 months out of the year. I've found a tick on me too. They seem be getting resistant to colder and colder weather, too, as I found one on him a month ago when it was only 30 degrees out.

Also remember that those products just kill the tick before it can transmit any diseases, they don't prevent the tick from getting on the animal or even from biting the animal.

The horse vet I've interned with said he's seen about a 50% increase in Lyme disease + results for the tests he's done each summer for the past 3-4 years. I'm telling you, they're taking over the world. <shudder>

I've always had the message 'check for ticks after every excursion, regardless of prevention method' pounded into my brain...are there places you can trust the prevention method to completely keep ticks off? That doesn't make sense. The way they get on animals/people is by climbing to the top of grass, holding on with a few legs, and waiting until something walks by they can grab onto. I don't see how Advantage can prevent that step from happening - although I do put it on my dogs.

I've never had one get engorged, and 95% of the ticks I pull off (usually off of me) are just crawling around, but yeah. Ticks are a fact of life in some areas...Last summer I had 30+ on me throughout the course of the summer, but none of them got attached because I checked every day.

Granted, you can avoid a lot of it by avoiding locations where ticks are more frequent.

 

[sumstorm]

I agree that there is no excuse for an animal to come in tick INFESTED, but I firmly believe that ticks are taking over the world.

A lot of working stock dogs come in loaded around here....and I can't really say that it is unacceptable, since at least some of the animals receive the monthly Advantix application FROM us at the vet clinic or from the associated mobile vet. So it isn't an owner compliance (other than the dogs aren't handled nearly as much as the typical pet.)

When I lived in a very urban part of NJ, during a particularly bad summer, we removed ticks every couple of days from our dogs that were treated with Advantix. We had the same problems. This was a very urban environment...the only 'green' around was fake (literally astroturf) and boxed trees/bushes, but it was enough to support ticks. These dogs were leash walked 3-4 times a day....so not running through parks or such.

Some seasons are just worse than others...and there seem to be pockets of infestation.

 

[Mistoffeles]

what is this "Kitty Magic" you speak of?!?! Please share with the class.. it sounds wonderful

0.1mL Domitor + 0.1mL Ketamine + 0.1mL Torb (10mg/mL).

We use it just to take the edge off, these are well below the calculated standard doses. And all can be adjusted up/down based on weight.

 

[Caninerepro]

Yeah I am sure things are getting worse, and admittedly I have lived in areas of the country where ticks and fleas are not as common. My mental image though is of the dirty, neglected dog that has not seen a lot of care. Same kind of people who do not bathe their pet before bringing it to the clinic. 😕 Nasty. Anyhow, to get things back to the original topic.

I have pretty much gotten used to the smell of formaldehyde, it is just a normal part of my being spring semesters. I have even gotten to the point of it almost making me hungry, but for the first couple of weeks my first year of anatomy, ralph! I am a firm convert to the if it bothers you, do it over and over again until you are used to it. Except for cats, those there is no helping me with! Sorry, could not refuse.😛

 

[david594]

our experience is that most cats can be managed without scruffing. move slowly (i.e., scoop them onto their side instead of doing it suddenly, slowly extend their neck/leg/paw, etc.), use the kitty burrito that someone else mentioned, and for the 5% or so that can't be handled like this, box-iso or dexdomitor or kitty magic may be indicated. i happen to not have issues restraining most cats (control of head and front paws is key) and dogs, but i'm a big guy, so a bear hug is usually an option.

of course we also don't believe in vaccines unless necessary or commercial foods. lots of it is regional - our clients are into that type of medicine, which is why the clinic is where it is.

<--- off the holistic soap box.

The problem is that you are now introducing the risks associated with anesthesia for those 5% of your patients. Boxing down a cat? Definitely far from stress free.

The benefit of being a little more "aggressive" with how you handle some animals could mean you would expose half as many to anesthetic related risks.

 

[nyanko]

The problem is that you are now introducing the risks associated with anesthesia for those 5% of your patients. Boxing down a cat? Definitely far from stress free.

The benefit of being a little more "aggressive" with how you handle some animals could mean you would expose half as many to anesthetic related risks.

Yeah I've got to agree with david here. I'd think "holistic" (hate that word) type clients would be more wary of you sedating their cats for something like a routine blood draw, too.

 

[Mistoffeles]

The problem is that you are now introducing the risks associated with anesthesia for those 5% of your patients. Boxing down a cat? Definitely far from stress free.

The benefit of being a little more "aggressive" with how you handle some animals could mean you would expose half as many to anesthetic related risks.

not really going to get into a defense of practice policy here. but, i will note that it's always subject to anesthetic risk assessment, and always as a last resort. we're not going to box down a 17 year old cat with chronic renal insufficiency just for a blood draw. we'd rather reschedule the appointment for early on another day so that the cat doesn't have to wait around, or send a nursing team to the client's home to do the blood draw there in a less stressful environment where the patient may have a better response. however, we may choose to do so for a 17 year old cat with chronic renal insufficiency who needs a full exam, bloodwork, ear cleaning, radiographs, etc., etc.

also (and this is just anecdotal, from my experience - not generalizing at all) if we pre-oxygenate the patient for 2-3 minutes and then do a gradual increase in the isoflurane as opposed to just cranking it all the way at once, we find that they tend to go down much more easily. the hardest part can be getting them into the box - after that, things are calmer (seemingly for them as well). of course, we don't have post-anesthesia surveys to ask how they liked their drugs. 😉

Yeah I've got to agree with david here. I'd think "holistic" (hate that word) type clients would be more wary of you sedating their cats for something like a routine blood draw, too.

surprisingly, the more "holistic" type clients (incidentally, why do you hate that word?) are less likely to have pets who need the aggressive approach. whether that's something in their diet or approach to care, I couldn't really say.

 

[DVMorBust]

surprisingly, the more "holistic" type clients (incidentally, why do you hate that word?)

I don't know if the other poster hates it for the same reason, but it irks me when people use it to separate 'natural'/homeopathic methods from traditional medicine because, by definition, it implies that traditional medicine doesn't look at the whole picture. It implies that a 'non-holistic' medical approach cuts things into chunks instead of looking at how things interact, no ifs, ands, or buts. It has not been my experience that this is the case with veterinarians (or doctors) practicing traditional medicine - thus using the word 'holistic' to separate out the two doesn't make sense, and only really serves to belittle other methods.

Then again, I've been told that I get too hung up on semantics...*shrug*

 

[sumstorm]

Same kind of people who do not bathe their pet before bringing it to the clinic. 😕 Nasty. Anyhow, to get things back to the original topic.

😛

Guess I am one of those nasty people. My dogs are only bathed when they need it...except the allergy dog who gets his feet washed twice a week. Do pepole really bath thier dogs every time they go to the vet? My poor cocker would have gone through periods of twice weekly bathing and hand drying.

 

[Mistoffeles]

I don't know if the other poster hates it for the same reason, but it irks me when people use it to separate 'natural'/homeopathic methods from traditional medicine because, by definition, it implies that traditional medicine doesn't look at the whole picture. It implies that a 'non-holistic' medical approach cuts things into chunks instead of looking at how things interact, no ifs, ands, or buts. It has not been my experience that this is the case with veterinarians (or doctors) practicing traditional medicine - thus using the word 'holistic' to separate out the two doesn't make sense, and only really serves to belittle other methods.

Then again, I've been told that I get too hung up on semantics...*shrug*

fair enough. FWIW, my experience is that most doctors/vets whether they tend towards "natural/homeopathic" or "traditional" are holistic in its strictest sense of looking at the whole. i guess that the pejorative aspect goes both ways . . . we have some doctors at the practice who look down on anything homeopathic or natural - they feel that if it's scientifically formulated, then it must be better.

i think that the term holistic has, as you imply, been co-opted by the natural/homeopathic "faction" (there's another incendiary term!), so that it is used as a blunt object instead of a philosophy. my use of the term was intended less in that manner, nor as a statement of my personal views, than it was to draw a delineation of how the practice i work at views itself.

and i love semantics. 🙂

 

[Caninerepro]

Guess I am one of those nasty people. My dogs are only bathed when they need it...except the allergy dog who gets his feet washed twice a week. Do pepole really bath thier dogs every time they go to the vet? My poor cocker would have gone through periods of twice weekly bathing and hand drying.

At our clinic, yeah. I mean most of the dogs are getting weekly, or at least every two to three week maintenence baths anyhow at home. So maybe not specifically for the appointment, but within two or three days yeah.

 

[sumstorm]

LOL. compared to half the dogs that come in our clinic, my dogs are generally spotless! We have a mix of working dogs and pets. I do always bring my dogs in matt free and clean, but not necessarily freshly bathed.

 

[david594]

of course we also don't believe in vaccines unless necessary or commercial foods. lots of it is regional - our clients are into that type of medicine, which is why the clinic is where it is.

<--- off the holistic soap box.

So I have no qualms with your explanation for sedating cats. I still think the idea of a "no-scruff policy" might be a bit extreme as I don't think scruffing is overly stressful for most cats, but its not a big issue.


But can you clarify for me your approach to vaccines? What are your indications for "necessary". Which vaccines and protocols do you find unnecessary?

 

[twelvetigers]

Mistoffeles, I'm having a hard time imagining your clinic. Does it have a fountain in the waiting room? Do you dim the lights before taking a fecal? Haha.

I come from a fairly bare-bones practice and, from what I can tell, your place sounds pretty nice. I'm guessing it's a large practice in the nicer part of town?

I'm only curious, and maybe a bit jealous - if I'm right, then odds are you have more/better technology there than OK's vet school. 🙄

 

[Mistoffeles]

Mistoffeles, I'm having a hard time imagining your clinic. Does it have a fountain in the waiting room? Do you dim the lights before taking a fecal? Haha.

I come from a fairly bare-bones practice and, from what I can tell, your place sounds pretty nice. I'm guessing it's a large practice in the nicer part of town?

I'm only curious, and maybe a bit jealous - if I'm right, then odds are you have more/better technology there than OK's vet school. 🙄

<--- blushes.

we're a 6-doctor/15-nurse practice with somewhere in the realm of eight to ten thousand active clients (estimate). no fountain in the waiting room, but the practice director set up the clinic with as much natural light as possible (i.e., the building was remodeled when the clinic opened). we have dedicated surgical and hospice rooms, digital radiology, ultrasound, and a full dental suite (with film radiology), plus about 30 cages for boarders/live-in animals (currently about 10, which come from our affiliated rescue group). we are in a somewhat "nice" part of town (as much as any part of Brooklyn is considered nice . . . ), but our clients are from all economic backgrounds. we suffer from overcrowding. and we're hurting financially right now. which i realize is a little like the king crying because he has to have beer instead of champagne.

with that said, we let four nurses go last month because of financial issues, and i'm being instructed to keep the remaining staff hours down so that we can afford to keep our doors open at all. our weekends are packed to the gills (when the overcrowding comes in), and the weekdays usually have about 5 appointments the entire day.

i doubt that we have more technology than a veterinary school . . . but the referral center down the block probably does. 🙂

 

[Mistoffeles]

So I have no qualms with your explanation for sedating cats. I still think the idea of a "no-scruff policy" might be a bit extreme as I don't think scruffing is overly stressful for most cats, but its not a big issue.


But can you clarify for me your approach to vaccines? What are your indications for "necessary". Which vaccines and protocols do you find unnecessary?

we follow the AHAA guidelines for canine vaccines, and the AAFP guidelines for feline. all vaccine decisions are made in conjunction with the owners after evaluation of risk/benefit.

so, all dogs get rabies and distemper unless contraindicated by age or health, on a 3-year cycle. bordatella is only given when the dog goes to boarding or day-care/training, as it is required every six months by NYC law. since a lot of recent research indicates that kennel cough is often not caused by bordatella bronchiseptica, and many vaccinated dogs get kennel cough anyways, we advise against this vaccine if it isn't required. lyme vaccines are given to dogs who are routinely exposed in endemic regions (NYC is not one), those who never leave the city are considered not at risk. lepto is again given at the discretion of the owner and after evaluation of risk.

for cats, we routinely give FVRCP, and rabies for patients who go outdoors or are bite risks/live with small children. that's the extent of our feline vaccinations. some of our doctors will give FELV to at risk cats (primarily managed ferals), but most cats in Brooklyn are indoor only, so we see vaccination beyond FVRCP as falling on the risk side of the risk/benefit analysis.

again, this is overall practice philosophy, which i do not always agree with (although i should admit to agreeing more than i disagree). and, if an owner requests a particular vaccine, we will certainly oblige if we don't have a medical reason not to.

 

[david594]

Mistoffeles

See, your explanations are far more logical typed out than what I was imagining in my head. 🙂

Thanks for the explanations. Those are all very logical. 👍 (and generally I like those much better than our own)

Side note, but when you say NYC is not lyme endemic, are you talking about NYC proper or are you including the surrounding areas?

 

[Mistoffeles]

Mistoffeles

See, your explanations are far more logical typed out than what I was imagining in my head. 🙂

Thanks for the explanations. Those are all very logical. 👍 (and generally I like those much better than our own)

Side note, but when you say NYC is not lyme endemic, are you talking about NYC proper or are you including the surrounding areas?

NYC proper. Long Island certainly has Lyme disease, as do Suffolk, Duchess, and Westchester counties.

 

[gex2006]

As far as animal restraint goes, I think that birds, especially parrots, definitely have the possibility of being up there at the top. They are strong and smart and know how to use this to their advantage if they are so inclined. We don't put them under for exams b/c anesthesia is more dangerous with them. So you just have to hold tight, but not so tight that they can't breathe. I have really grown some hand muscles from those macaws!