getting published in high school?

[alejandra]

---

Members don't see this ad.

hello, i'm a high school student doing some research that i think has the potential to get published.
thing is, i'm doing it basically by myself (i'm using some lab equipment at a very prestigious university, but my cell culturing is at a lab which is for student science fair projects specifically)
1) is it possible to get published just by myself, or will editors/peer reviewers look down on that and reject me? 2) do i need a professor or scientist as a coauthor to get it published? (b/c i could ask someone i know to look it over for me and thus put him as a coauthor)
3) and also for my institution...should i put my school or what?
i'm thinking of submitting to the journal of neuroinflammation, journal of neuroscience, and journal of immunology - i've seen some studies on these journals that are pretty similar to mine, so i think i have a good shot just content based.

please let me know your thoughts/suggestions.

thanks,
alejandra

 

[brooklynblunder]

you def want a mentor, i just dont see it happening. good luck though

 

[armybound]

you can publish by yourself. your degrees aren't important.

what is important is that you follow the proper journal submission protocol, including the proper formatting, background, literature review, results, etc. It will also require that you have sound scientific method and reasoning and solid statistical analysis. Publishing isn't about simply doing an experiment and writing about your results.

While you can do all of this by yourself, people will more experience in writing articles, doing research, performing statistical analysis, etc will offer you good perspective that you might not have.

 

[Narmerguy]

It may be doable but I don't think it's worth it. I'd get a mentor and just focus on being first author.

 

[alejandra]

see, i spent like 2 months over the summer trying to get a mentor. but everyone was too busy, couldn't host a student in their lab, etc.
so i just decided to do it myself w/o a mentor.
at this point, could i just ask someone to review it for me and be a coauthor? and allow me to put their institution down as mine?

well, actually, now that i think about it, since i'm using lab equipment at a university (microplate reader, possibly dna microarray scanner)...could i put the lab assistant there as a second author? even though he didn't really help... 😛

 

[catalase]

Find a prom date, and worry about publishing in about 4 years.

Good luck.

 

[theroadtomed]

Find a prom date, and worry about publishing in about 4 years.

Good luck.

Agreed. I'd be nuts by now if I would've started thinking like this that early. I regret even looking at SDN sophomore year, much less worrying about publishing before I even started.

 

[swamprat]

Thats so funny doing microarrays in HS? Those are pretty expensive from what I know, I didn't even know what a microarray was until like this past year hahaha. Btw what is your research on if you don't mind me asking, I am very curious.

 

[corbis11]

i never heard of a high schooler doing actual research while I was in high school (c/o 2004)

 

[kami333]

We've got a couple HS students in our lab, some have been coauthors on Science-caliber papers. Although none of us older people in the lab even thought about research in high school, not even in ugrad for some of us.

I'm impressed you got the funding for chips, those things are $$$ 👍

 

[metallica81788]

Seriously, enjoy your life - you'll have time for that later. Be a kid first.

 

[Narmerguy]

see, i spent like 2 months over the summer trying to get a mentor. but everyone was too busy, couldn't host a student in their lab, etc.
so i just decided to do it myself w/o a mentor.
at this point, could i just ask someone to review it for me and be a coauthor? and allow me to put their institution down as mine?

well, actually, now that i think about it, since i'm using lab equipment at a university (microplate reader, possibly dna microarray scanner)...could i put the lab assistant there as a second author? even though he didn't really help... 😛

How on earth were you allowed to do this stuff or funded?

 

[alejandra]

doxycycline - it involves neuroinflammation and Alzheimer's disease.

at this point i just hope i'll do well in science fair - it's pretty clear that no HS student gets published by themselves. 🙁

 

[tennisball80]

Always give a try. It doesn't mean that you can not be the first person. Don't get discouraged. Talk to a professor and get help. If your paper is highly qualified, it should be published.

Would you mind PM me with your topic of research? I am interested in knowing how you came with your idea.

Good luck.

hello, i'm a high school student doing some research that i think has the potential to get published.
thing is, i'm doing it basically by myself (i'm using some lab equipment at a very prestigious university, but my cell culturing is at a lab which is for student science fair projects specifically)
1) is it possible to get published just by myself, or will editors/peer reviewers look down on that and reject me? 2) do i need a professor or scientist as a coauthor to get it published? (b/c i could ask someone i know to look it over for me and thus put him as a coauthor)
3) and also for my institution...should i put my school or what?
i'm thinking of submitting to the journal of neuroinflammation, journal of neuroscience, and journal of immunology - i've seen some studies on these journals that are pretty similar to mine, so i think i have a good shot just content based.

please let me know your thoughts/suggestions.

thanks,
alejandra

 

[DendWrite]

Dude, don't listen to these people who are sort of neutral. Absolutely try and publish the paper if you can. It will be sweet to have on your college apps, and publications are forever, so if you decide to apply M.D., or PhD programs or whatever, it will be impressive. And it will help you get lab jobs in college.

So yes, definitely publish if at all possible.

Suggestion: if you are doing research at a really prestigious university, find a really prestigious prof in your area of research. I'm not saying that you can't submit yourself, but some chances are that you can avoid a LOT of headache by listing that prestigious prof as the P.I. You would still be first author, but trust me....knowing people (as sad as that is) can actually make your papers get out much more quickly and with less hassle. Furthermore, by approaching this guy at the school you will:

a) Definitely impress the guy if it's publication-worthy which will lead to a great college LOR and possibly a job there in college (if you decide to go there)

b) The guy will be very familiar with the field and current papers that are out there..he can tell you if your methods are good, if you need to do more experiments, etc. He's also probably written loads of papers, so he can revise it for you.

Clearly if you've done the research yourself and it's publication worthy you could probably publish yourself. But I'd get a professor's help for the reasons I mentioned. Trust me, it's no less prestigious (first author is first author), and the education and potential mentorship you could gain by approaching a prof is well worth that "sacrifice."

Best of luck (and I hope you aren't a troll...)

 

[yeastfan21]

I published a first-author paper when I was in high school, and I really really enjoyed the experience of working in a lab (which is why I'm currenly applying MD/PhD), so don't listen to people who are trying to shut you down by saying "get a prom date" or whatever. (The two aren't mutually exclusive 😎). Moreover, doing good science in high school is by no means unusual... google Intel Science Talent Search or Siemens Westinghouse.

What IS highly, highly unusual is to be doing cell-based experiments without a faculty mentor or laboratory affiliation. I think part of the reaction the OP is getting here is due to the fact that no one (myself included) can figure out the situation you're describing. If you're doing cell culture, what kind of cells are you working on and where did they come from? To whom does this laboratory space belong? Where did you obtain doxycycline? It's really really hard to imagine someone being able to do publication quality work without the $$$ needed to buy reagents and equipment, hence the need for funding from a faculty mentor. The prospect of doing meaningful research on neuroinflammation without a college degree, and without the advice of an experienced scientist, makes this story even more implausible.

Please elaborate more in terms of the facility where you're working and how you were permitted to do research there, as well as how you came to work on this highly specialized topic--and I suspect you'll get more helpful responses.

 

[yeastfan21]

One more point... Journal of Neuroscience, or Journal of Immunology? COME ON! I suspect OP is either seriously underestimating the difficulty of publishing in journals like these, or she's just pulling our leg (legs?).

 

[BBender716]

Too bad you can't count anything from high school 🙄

total jk lol


...but seriously, how would this work?

 

[schrizto]

I've heard of people who were published in high school. However, they all had a faculty mentor who was really willing to help them. Having someone with past experience in writing and preparing articles would help, a lot.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

What IS highly, highly unusual is to be doing cell-based experiments without a faculty mentor or laboratory affiliation. I think part of the reaction the OP is getting here is due to the fact that no one (myself included) can figure out the situation you're describing. If you're doing cell culture, what kind of cells are you working on and where did they come from? To whom does this laboratory space belong? Where did you obtain doxycycline? It's really really hard to imagine someone being able to do publication quality work without the $$$ needed to buy reagents and equipment, hence the need for funding from a faculty mentor. The prospect of doing meaningful research on neuroinflammation without a college degree, and without the advice of an experienced scientist, makes this story even more implausible.

Exactly. All these questions are basically making my BS meter go off.

 

[RevMD]

What IS highly, highly unusual is to be doing cell-based experiments without a faculty mentor or laboratory affiliation. I think part of the reaction the OP is getting here is due to the fact that no one (myself included) can figure out the situation you're describing. If you're doing cell culture, what kind of cells are you working on and where did they come from? To whom does this laboratory space belong? Where did you obtain doxycycline? It's really really hard to imagine someone being able to do publication quality work without the $$$ needed to buy reagents and equipment, hence the need for funding from a faculty mentor. The prospect of doing meaningful research on neuroinflammation without a college degree, and without the advice of an experienced scientist, makes this story even more implausible.

Please elaborate more in terms of the facility where you're working and how you were permitted to do research there, as well as how you came to work on this highly specialized topic--and I suspect you'll get more helpful responses.

OP does mention doing the work using some University research lab along with other lab space elsewhere. But again, I have cultured cancer cells for the past year and I know first hand that the cells, culture media, and culturing supplies (pipettes, dishes, etc) alone do not come cheap.

 

[mmmcdowe]

OP does mention doing the work using some University research lab along with other lab space elsewhere. But again, I have cultured cancer cells for the past year and I know first hand that the cells, culture media, and culturing supplies (pipettes, dishes, etc) alone do not come cheap.

Nor was I under the impression that anyone off of the street could obtain everyone you would need to conduct a neuro experiment (especially the human cells?) OP, maybe talk to who ever you are borrowing the space from and see if they feel like it is publishable.

 

[caseofthemndays]

Yeah.... I sense something is off. Who in their right mind would let a high school student work with expensive lab equipment, and not even teach them lab skills? Regardless, I echo the above posters who pointed out that there are some complex statistical measures and formats you will need to know to publish. Are you using an ANOVA test? Is your data parametric? Did you know you can only submit papers to ONE journal at a time? And most of these have AT LEAST 50% rejection rates? Not to sound discouraging, but I highly doubt a teenager is capable of doing this on her own.

 

[alejandra]

wow, i certainly never expected so many responses! 🙂
okay, to clarify:
1) i am doing my cell culturing at the lab of an organization which is geared toward student science fair projects. it's probably the only one of its kind, so i can't be more specific here (lest i give away my identity). rest assured, i have the materials for cell culturing such as flasks, pipettes, scrapers, etc. they were available at the facility and i only needed to get the cells and medium.
2) as to where i obtained the cells - the ecacc, through sigma aldrich. sigma gave me a generous discount, so that worked out well.
3) uh, doxycline is the username of a member i was responding to. 😛 lol.
4) how i came up with this topic - i've been interested in neuroscience since i read an excellent book called "the three pound enigma" in sixth grade, and i've been following the research for a while. an article in sciam about a related neurodegenerative disease kind of got me interested in this field particularly within neuroscience. about 2 months of research later, i had my topic. 😀
5) i probably would not have even considered this project if i knew the cost up front - i was very lucky though to have some generous companies donate all reagents i needed. without donations this project would have cost perhaps 6-7 thousand. maybe more, i'm not sure about the exact numbers.
6) for those mentioning the difficulty of doing this without a scientist - if i had a very specific question (about the ELISA, or the peptide aggegration, etc.) I would contact either the technical service of the company that donated, or if necessary, a scientist working in this field.
7) i'm working with mouse macrophages and a rat/neuron hybrid.
8) sorry, i agree, JNeuroscience and JImmunology are way out of my league - having no experience w/ publishing i didn't really know the relative rankings.
9) as for the facility - i am doing my cell culturing specifically at the lab mentioned above, and I will do my microarray work and ELISA at a nearby university. as well as data analysis because of the necessary software.

i guess i should have elaborated more before posting, but really, what i wanted to know was how much a person's institution was considered in the peer review process. my work may or may not be journal-worthy, but i would be disappointed if my lack of an institution was the reason i was rejected.

also, you have to understand, it's not like i have completed this project in a hole under the ground. i have discussed it with the people from the lab i'm culturing at, and although they are not skilled in my field in particular, i think they would know if there was some hugely glaring error.
also, i have looked at some full length papers in the same field as mine and compared the methodologies.

dendwrite - thanks for the advice! once i finish up with everything i plan to send out my paper to some professors and get their input.

thanks everyone for responding,
alejandra

 

[blaithnaid]

lol ez bake science oven

why did u start like 9045[4u5i83p459 of the same EXACT thread

 

[alejandra]

because i'm new to SDN and i didn't know which forum to put it in

 

[DendWrite]

i guess i should have elaborated more before posting, but really, what i wanted to know was how much a person's institution was considered in the peer review process. my work may or may not be journal-worthy, but i would be disappointed if my lack of an institution was the reason i was rejected.

I don't think that the lack of an institution would necessarily be the sole reason you were rejected, but you just have to understand the point of view of the journal. I'm assuming that you don't have any publications yet, so they don't have a track record to go by. Don't take this the wrong way, because you sound like a really smart, motivated person, but the committee (full of MDs, MD/PhDs, really old conservative people) are going to be like...what? A high-schooler? Pfft.

The main thing is that journals are SOOO picky and there are submission fees involved and long wait times. Trust me, sometimes my PI submits a paper and it takes 6 months to get published (this is a paper with few problems...so this is solely review process, rewriting, maybe a new figure or including a little more data). But my PI has submitted to dozens of journals hundreds of times, so he can look at a paper and say, Yeah, this is a reach journal, this is a sure thing journal, etc. It's sort of like your college advisor looking at your GPA / SAT scores and recommending colleges.

I strongly recommend having the name of an institution on your paper as well as a reputable PI from your field. If you are an established researcher, you can MAYBE publish from "a lab in your own home" (i.e. not affiliated with an institution) but it's rare -- probably almost impossible to get it published in a peer-reviewed journal if you don't have the name of the school on there (for this type of paper).

Also, have you done anything other than cell culture studies? A lot of journals want to see in vivo stuff too...it kind of depends on how breakthrough the discovery is. Just something to think about, as you'd need animal facilities for that, as well as IRB (internal review board) protocols, etc. If you do animal studies, you MUST be affiliated with an institution and follow ALL the IRB protocols beforehand -- otherwise nearly all journals will reject any data you have collected prior to obtaining permission (and you get in a lot of trouble). So just keep that in mind.

IMO there's no "shame" in being affiliated with an institution / having a PI's name on there, and I think it could easily make the difference between getting a quick publication (with chances for more) and fighting a battle to get that one paper published, possibly for several months to a year.

 

[MsTaco]

Ok...I'm going to swallow my pride here (I still haven't even published yet, and my HS students could barely even speak english 🙁), and see if I can be helpful. I work in a neuroinflammation/Alzheimer's lab. If the work is that good, most PIs will add their name to any paper with noteworthy science; you shouldn't have a problem getting a mentor to help you submit it to a journal if that's the case. However, if the work is sub-par (my PI always jokes about the "Journal of Minute Details," or the "Journal of Incremental Advances,"), no PhD will tack their name onto it--your publications have a way of following you around. And if it's somewhere in-between, you might have a good chance at finding a mentor that is willing to pick it up and help develop it, but you will lose some of that autonomy (but you would remain 1st author). If you're interested, PM me, and I will talk to my boss and see if he has any input. If nothing else, maybe he can judge whether it is in fact publishable, and give you and idea of where to go from here.

Btw...what is a rat/neuron hybrid?? I just pictured a giant neuron attached to the back of a rat...but I've been watching too many cartoons lately...

 

[kami333]

Just something to think about, as you'd need animal facilities for that, as well as IRB (internal review board) protocols, etc. If you do animal studies, you MUST be affiliated with an institution and follow ALL the IRB protocols beforehand -- otherwise nearly all journals will reject any data you have collected prior to obtaining permission (and you get in a lot of trouble).

Quick correction:

IRB = Institutional Review Board - deals with any human studies (clinical, social, etc)
IACUC = Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee - deals with animal research

There's also the IBC (Institutional Biosafety Committee) that you have to deal with when using certain things like viral vectors.

 

[ksmi117]

As this should be posted in hSDN, I'm closing this thread. Here's the link to the hSDN thread. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=692532