Getting published in research as undergrad

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BlueElmo

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Is it a big positive when applying to medical schools if you can get a paper published in prestigious journals like Nature or Science? I mean, is it a big deal when you can get something published in journals like that? What if you don't get anything published, is it even worth doing research then?

P.S.) Also, for those of you conducting research as an undergrad, how many hours a week do you guys usually put in during school semesters?
 
Is it a big positive when applying to medical schools if you can get a paper published in prestigious journals like Nature or Science? I mean, is it a big deal when you can get something published in journals like that? What if you don't get anything published, is it even worth doing research then?

P.S.) Also, for those of you conducting research as an undergrad, how many hours a week do you guys usually put in during school semesters?

ALOT!!! But i got 2 publications out of the experiece, so im happy. its worth it, you get what you put in. but try to find a pi that will actually let you do WORK! alot of times, when applicant list research experience, adcoms know that most of the time, its just shadowing, cleaning dishes or what not. so try to find a pi that will give you a ton of opportunities.
 
Most researchers will go their entire career without getting a paper in Nature or Science. A lot of it is politics, current science, etc, so don't set your heart on getting into those journals. Getting published at all while an undergrad is a great thing, but not very common. Research is valuable experience just for learning the techniques and seeing the scientific process in action. I find it much more interesting than sitting in a lecture hall. How many hours per week varies per student and per professor, but 5-10 is a good estimate. I worked for one prof that required 10hrs/week per credit hour; those who had 3 credits for research spent a lot of time in the lab. But like I said, it varies.
 
Is it a big positive when applying to medical schools if you can get a paper published in prestigious journals like Nature or Science? I mean, is it a big deal when you can get something published in journals like that? What if you don't get anything published, is it even worth doing research then?

P.S.) Also, for those of you conducting research as an undergrad, how many hours a week do you guys usually put in during school semesters?

It would be a big deal because there's all of about zero premeds in the last few years with first authorships in nature or science or any other journal with impact factor greater than 10. Being a middle author on a publication in such a journal would be very nice already, but that's probably not as good as being first author in a decent journal (impact factor 3-8).
 
Oh, could you explain what you mean by impact factor, first authorship, middle authorship, etc? I'm kind of new to this. Thanks a lot.
 
You know, I've never done research, but I'm going to take a wild guess that if you're doing it solely to impress adcoms, it's not going to be worth the experience or the amount of effort it's going to take. I hope that's not the only reason you plan to do research..
 
oh no, i'm already doing research right now, and i enjoy it very much. i'm just curious about the publication issues involved here.
 
Research in undergrad can be a fickle thing, and getting published can be a whole lot of work.

First, let's talk about getting an authorship. To make it onto the front of the paper, there is a variety of criteria. The first author is the one who actually writes the paper, and the one presumed to be the lead person on the project. The last author is the primary investigator, basically the person providing the money and overseeing the project. The full responsibility of the paper falls to the PI, as in he/she is responsible and puts their name to lend credibility to the paper. Any authorships in between first and last are deemed to be in order of contribution. Now, on to the idea of getting on it. There are varying criteria, depending on the lab. The most fair way is whether or not you make an intellectual contribution to the paper. Basically, this means that you've helped add an idea or something that makes it in. Washing dishes, data collection/analyzation, while all critical to the paper, are not good enough to actually make it on to the front. Techs can do this job, and techs dont get their names on the paper because they need to add some brain work to this. However, this standard can vary due to office politics and the generosity of the PI. Basically, people have been known to get on papers just for data collection and analysis. Also, the you scratch my back I scratch your back theory applies here. As a research investigator, the more your research papers are cited, and the more your articles you help author, the more prestige you get. Think of it as a video game, where you get points every time you appear. So basically, PI's will get some of their colleagues to read the papers and whether or not they have anything to add their names will get put on. While this might not seem fair, bear in mind these minds are some of the finest in the world on the subject, and their input can lead to truly valuable insights. So it's not all about politics, but it can influence it.

As for the time required, it varies from lab to lab. I myself did 20-30 hours a week in the heavy times, but of course it depends on the nature of what you want to do and how strict they are about doing it.

Impact factors. Basically, a rating of how "important" a journal is. It's a rough proxy of how many times an article in the journal is cited by other papers, the theory being that hey if your work is important people will build their work on it. There are the most prestigious ones, such as Science and Nature, and as someone else posted, these can be affected by what's currently "hot" in science. These two have an impact factor of about 30-35. There are the top tiers which fall between 10-20, which includes PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences), Cancer, Circulation, etc. These are all very good journals as well. Other good journals like the American Journal of Physiology rate around a 4, and lots of other journals with lower impact factors. Keep in mind, these are peer reviewed, and just because the paper isn't in a journal with a big impact factor doesn't lessen the importance of the research or the experience. It depends on the field, the scope of the journal, and a whole bunch of other things.

Now all this goes into the prestige points the investigators can earn. A new rating system of the approximate 'importance' of the researchers is how many times their papers have been cited by other papers. It's a weird system, I wont get into that. Authorships are pretty important, because the grad students need them, the postdocs need them, and the PI's need them for a variety of reasons. Anyway, authorships are hard to come by as an undergrad, because even grad students can toil for years without an authorship (first or otherwise). A little luck, a lot of hard work, and lots of open communication with your supervisors will get you there. First authorship might be too hard for an undergraduate, because like I said, grad students who do this FULL TIME take YEARS to get to that point. It's not likely there's a project just waiting for you right there to take.

Back to the original question. Research is definitely worth it, even if you don't get an authorship. The intellectual benefits and the experiences have definitely proved a huge plus for me. Working with people who are absolutely amazingly intelligent, getting projects and contributing intellectually, it's great. Like all things in life, you get out what you put into it. The more you put in, the more you get out. An authorship will impress research oriented schools (all the top tiers), but you need the whole package with them. Patient care oriented schools don't care as much about research, but it's still a nice feather in your cap. An authorship says "Hey, my PI/supervisor thought enough of my contributions to give me an authorship!", which hopefully still means something nowadays. Even if you don't get an authorship, you can still put the experience down on your AMCAS app and talk about it in the essays that they have for you. You can talk about it at interviews and stuff.

I apologize if this was a long rambling thing. I'm quite sleepy.

Addendum:

This does not apply to "undergraduate journals". I don't hold much stock in them, as I don't know anyone who reads them besides people who are in them. The peer reviewed journals are the way to go. The Ugrad ones are 'peer reviewed' by students, who probably have no idea what you're talking about in the article. Adcoms might feel the same way, or might be impressed you bothered to try to write up an article type thing. Also, this all applies to basic science research, I personally have no clue about clinical research and how it works.
 
Without getting published it is still nice. The recommendations and authorship are kind of the carrot on the end of the stick. My current research does involve a bit of stress. I have to somehow create an excel file with all of this stuff to show him by tomorrow. I am supposed to transcend the boundries of the law and internet to do so though. (long story)

I was pretty much guarenteed a second author or so. Not in nature or science, but I am pretty sure you have to really earn the respect to get to that level. Maybe it is because I don't do science research, but I don't even read those that often. I lean towards radiographics and what not because of my resesarch.
 
i have had quite a bit of experience with research over the last five years starting in high school (going to be college senior next year). i can tell you that authorship is more dependent on luck than effort. your chances are much higher though if you work in a prestigious lab compared to a mediocre lab (if the PI let you in on the paper in both cases). for example, i worked 2 full years in a mediocre lab and got no authorship. then i worked in a prestigious lab for one summer and got a 3rd author in PNAS. now, i am working in the same lab on a paper for Cell. i guess for beginners, it doesnt matter what kind of lab you are in, you will have so much to learn. but once you get some basic skills down, you may want to apply to some lab where the research is more current. these labs have some benefits that are related to the fact that it is easier for them to get authorship. the quality of research is higher so you will not only learn more but learn everything the correct way. there is no pressure and lack of resources never conflicts with your experiments.
 
I am spend 21 hours in a lab a week for the rest of the summer..and I am almost positive there is going to be no published work, although I need a reccomendation. Is 21 hours a week too much? The work I am doing is mainly tedious type work.
 
Hey, thanks dragonark and all the others. These really helped.
 
Hey, thanks dragonark and all the others. These really helped.

Anyone know what stage of the publication process warrents an update letter? Should I update with information of a submission to "nature" or "Science" or with a revision or when the publication actually comes out? What about other journals? Should I update with on any other research results... like a poster or published abstract? Thanks for your help...
 
Is it a big positive when applying to medical schools if you can get a paper published in prestigious journals like Nature or Science? I mean, is it a big deal when you can get something published in journals like that? What if you don't get anything published, is it even worth doing research then?

P.S.) Also, for those of you conducting research as an undergrad, how many hours a week do you guys usually put in during school semesters?

It means a lot for ANYONE to be published in Nature or Science or PNAS...not just for a pre-med...
 
i have had quite a bit of experience with research over the last five years starting in high school (going to be college senior next year). i can tell you that authorship is more dependent on luck than effort. your chances are much higher though if you work in a prestigious lab compared to a mediocre lab (if the PI let you in on the paper in both cases). for example, i worked 2 full years in a mediocre lab and got no authorship. then i worked in a prestigious lab for one summer and got a 3rd author in PNAS. now, i am working in the same lab on a paper for Cell. i guess for beginners, it doesnt matter what kind of lab you are in, you will have so much to learn. but once you get some basic skills down, you may want to apply to some lab where the research is more current. these labs have some benefits that are related to the fact that it is easier for them to get authorship. the quality of research is higher so you will not only learn more but learn everything the correct way. there is no pressure and lack of resources never conflicts with your experiments.
I second this!
 
I am spend 21 hours in a lab a week for the rest of the summer..and I am almost positive there is going to be no published work, although I need a reccomendation. Is 21 hours a week too much? The work I am doing is mainly tedious type work.
It's not too much as long as you're still getting good grades (speaking from personal experiences ::cries:🙂
 
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