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Going back for a PhD after residency
- Thread starter krukenbergspindle
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If you're in as surgical specialty, the most common thing I've seen are surgeons taking a couple research years (depending on the department you're carrying out your research in, it can yield a PhD) and then finishing off their surgical training.
An example I've seen 2 general surgery residents do at my institution:
After their PGY-2 year they took their standard 2 year research block (w/ minimal clinical duties) but after getting some exciting results they extended their research block to 3.5-4 yrs and somehow got the department to grant them a PhD. One is currently a surg onc fellow and the other is finishing up their GS residency.
I've also seen a fellow? just extend their fellowship to get enough expertise to apply for a K-award but I didn't really know them that well so I can't talk about any of the details of their arrangement (I don't think they got a PhD).
I can't imagine that it would be logistically easy to arrange doing a PhD once you're a board-certified sub-specialty trained surgeon since you'd be hired for your expertise and (I assume) your department/division would want you to be ramping up your clinical volume. It'd be one thing if you had the expertise (or the funding) and wanted to be a surgeon-scientist (maybe based on your postdoc/fellowship yrs) but I'm not quite sure if what you're proposing is possible (or at least it would be difficult to find a department/division that would be amenable to such an arrangement).
I'm curious to hear what people further down the training course have to say.
An example I've seen 2 general surgery residents do at my institution:
After their PGY-2 year they took their standard 2 year research block (w/ minimal clinical duties) but after getting some exciting results they extended their research block to 3.5-4 yrs and somehow got the department to grant them a PhD. One is currently a surg onc fellow and the other is finishing up their GS residency.
I've also seen a fellow? just extend their fellowship to get enough expertise to apply for a K-award but I didn't really know them that well so I can't talk about any of the details of their arrangement (I don't think they got a PhD).
I can't imagine that it would be logistically easy to arrange doing a PhD once you're a board-certified sub-specialty trained surgeon since you'd be hired for your expertise and (I assume) your department/division would want you to be ramping up your clinical volume. It'd be one thing if you had the expertise (or the funding) and wanted to be a surgeon-scientist (maybe based on your postdoc/fellowship yrs) but I'm not quite sure if what you're proposing is possible (or at least it would be difficult to find a department/division that would be amenable to such an arrangement).
I'm curious to hear what people further down the training course have to say.
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There are programs that allow residents to complete PhD training, e.g.,
Overview
But if your institution doesn't, this could be tricky. Nonetheless I think the advice above to build off your research years is good. I'd identify a lab of interest, tell the PI you are interested in a more extensive research training experience, and see if they would be willing to help you construct a plan for extended research time. I don't know about the actual degree, you'd have to involve the chair of the relevant grad school Dept for that.
Overview
But if your institution doesn't, this could be tricky. Nonetheless I think the advice above to build off your research years is good. I'd identify a lab of interest, tell the PI you are interested in a more extensive research training experience, and see if they would be willing to help you construct a plan for extended research time. I don't know about the actual degree, you'd have to involve the chair of the relevant grad school Dept for that.
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There are similar programs to an MSTP for fellows and faculty, but the better question is why? The T32 will offer you a truncated version of the same thing and can be done within the context of your clinical training. Yes, it is less structured, ie there typically aren't formal didactics. There is still some version off a committee though. The requirements of a T32 really aren't a stringent as a formal Ph.D., but the only thing, at your juncture, that the Ph.D. offers you more time. Mentor ship is always is a crapshoot, irrespective of the degree or training you hope to obtain. However, it also does it at a significant cost (ie who is going to pay for it?). You may be able to swing some clinical time, but not enough to pay for your Ph.D.. Thus you would have spent all of medical school and residency to pay for something that you could have gotten for "free" a decade prior. That doesn't make much financial sense.
Your best options at this point are T32 (or F if you can swing it during fellowship), then K, then R... and so forth. You're too far along to pursue a Ph.D. in my opinion unless you 1) have less interest in any sort of clinical medicine 2) are willing to accept the financial costs associated with it (and you much be willing to accept 1 and 2).
Your best options at this point are T32 (or F if you can swing it during fellowship), then K, then R... and so forth. You're too far along to pursue a Ph.D. in my opinion unless you 1) have less interest in any sort of clinical medicine 2) are willing to accept the financial costs associated with it (and you much be willing to accept 1 and 2).
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