Going into top medical schools as a traditional student?

[gurt567]

Hi, I'll be a freshman at uni this fall, and will likely attend HPYS (I was fortunate enough to be admitted into one of them REA).

The situation is, I'll need to apply to medical school at the end of my junior year and, hopefully be admitted, enroll right after my senior year. Or the traditional pathway. This is because my parents have agreed to pay for my education only if I do this. They're born in China and grew up in a region where taking a gap year is looked down upon.

I have my hopes set high and want to hopefully go to a T10 medical school. I know its a long ways away and is a long shot for everyone, but if I'm attending a top 5 undergrad, I don't want to dip too low for medical school or else I'll feel like I wasted my opportunity there and could've just done an easier schedule at my state school.

Now, I'm wondering if this is even possible? Looking around this forum and seeing accepted profiles to top schools, they all seem to be students who have taken a gap year. Is it possible for an ORM, if that's relevant, to be admitted as a trad student? If so, when should I start my extracurriculars and how many hours should I hope to hit in the relevant categories? Please, any guidance is much appreciated.

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[JustaDO]

If you honestly don't know the answer to "can you get into a top medical school as a traditional student?", I wouldn't stress about getting into medical school.

 

[meronebib]

Uh, yes, it’s possible. If you don’t mind me asking, why do you want to be a doctor?

 

[920820]

It happens all the time but regarding "if I'm attending a top 5 undergrad, I don't want to dip too low for medical school or else I'll feel like I wasted my opportunity there and could've just done an easier schedule at my state school"- as somebody who attended a similarly ranked undergraduate, I highly recommend you remain humble throughout this process

 

[dodolol21]

Uh, yes, it’s possible. If you don’t mind me asking, why do you want to be a doctor?

lol no need to be so interrogating to the young one

I highly recommend you remain humble throughout this process

this is true statement, should heed this advice

Now, I'm wondering if this is even possible?

Yes this is very possible. Keep up a 3.9+ GPA, score 524+ on the MCAT, have 1 year of clinical experience, 100 hours of shadowing, 2 years of volunteering, and 1-2 years of research with at least a poster or two, preferably a publication. Combine this with strong letters of recommendation and a well written application and you should not have difficulty cracking into top medical schools given good interviewing skills.
(for anyone else reading no I'm not being sarcastic this is serious advice--and I'm sure it is achievable for OP)

 

[Wahkoon]

if I'm attending a top 5 undergrad, I don't want to dip too low for medical school or else I'll feel like I wasted my opportunity there and could've just done an easier schedule at my state school.

Ouch to everyone not attending a T10...

Yes, OP, it is possible to attend a T10 as a traditional app. There’s no key to success at these schools that is different from every other school in the US (GPA, MCAT, research, volunteering). Just remember that no school is guaranteed to you, no matter your undergraduate institution. Any acceptance is a blessing.

On another note, don’t put very much weight into these rankings. Just last year NYU was 12th in the US, and jumped to 3rd this year... rankings are fickle, focus on getting a good education in order to treat your future patients.

Sincerely,
Someone attending a T5 from an easier state school

 

[faerie62]

If you would be disappointed in going to a non-T10 med school after going to a top undergrad then don’t go to the top undergrad. You stand a fair chance of being disappointed.

 

[Crayola227]

I would only add, if you come close to achieving the above, but not quite, often you can still get into medical school. Going to the best undergrad might not mean going to the best med school. But it could help you get into med school period.

I would highly advise anyone considering this journey how they would feel being a quiet little family practice doctor in a quiet little city for the rest of your life. About busting their ass just about every minute of every day from this day forward for all of the young years of their life, to continue to bust ass in obscurity. About going to no-name uni in Alaska, getting a 4.0 to go to no-name med school in the Ozarks, to then do their residency training in Nebraska and settle down to a family practice in rural Georgia. Where frequently patients and others mistake you for a nurse. You get extolled daily by social media and every single lay person you talk to about the evils of western medicine and that doctors are in it for the money AND don't really know what they're talking about, and your spouse and kids mostly resent that you work a lot. You might never get a single patient thank you while in practice, ever.

Even if you start out at Harvard, the above pathway is always a risk to you. It just is. So I advise, do your absolute best, reach for the stars. I entertained a lot of notions of grandeur. And it all went horribly, horribly wrong. It had nothing to do with the school I went, or a lot of things I could have affected.

I paid for that MD with my life, in so many ways. And yet, I would still do it again. That is not the same as recommending it to another soul the first time around.

It's hard for some to gauge what that piece of paper and initials will mean after your name until after you have them, and you realize they mean next to nothing in this world. They better mean something to you. Something so precious that it doesn't matter that the fine state of Oklahoma awarded it or that you are a humble general practitioner in a city no one has heard of in Illinois, or the parents you did it for are dead and never really approved of you anyway.

I started this path at age 17 when it comes to secondary education. Earlier in all reality. And I can tell you I definitely lived a lot more life than most before age 17. I started in my mid-20s, just a few years older than "trads" (boy do the years make the difference even when it doesn't seem like just a few would). Like every doctor pathway, it's a decade-long fun course. Don't underestimate what the decade of 20s, 30s, 40s, etc means in the development of a human being, especially when you have less than even one decade of being an adult to your name. I think in my 20s I had a good idea of who I could be based on whatever it was I knew at the time and I was set on trying to be, that's not the same thing as being someone. So fast forward to mid-30s. A lot of things that used to matter, don't matter any more. Well, damn it, that's always what old people say, that's hardly helpful!

Nah, but there were things I was willing to take on the basis of what is rational. I suspected that doctors weren't full of it about all the things they said did, or didn't, matter. Especially when there seemed to be a pattern.

If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. It won't matter how as long as it's the right choice (separate essay). If this is about family, wealth, prestige, even helping people, you may be really disappointed.

You "can" "do" "anything" you "set your mind to." How about, is it a good idea to begin with? Is it realistic? OK, what is necessary to do it? It's a better idea to be a doctor when you're willing to do whatever it takes, even though it's going to be hard on yourself and everyone you care about. You might have to eat poop hot dogs from the University of Uptight Arses School of Pain & Medicine. That's the reality of doing it.

 

[931408]

I have my hopes set high and want to hopefully go to a T10 medical school. I know its a long ways away and is a long shot for everyone, but if I'm attending a top 5 undergrad, I don't want to dip too low for medical school or else I'll feel like I wasted my opportunity there and could've just done an easier schedule at my state school.

FYI, you can have a harder class schedule at a state school compared to a student who's gone to a HYPS. I can understand the misconception but it's not like HYPS is teaching you something special compared to what you find in state schools. You can skip out of classes and challenge yourself at your state school. I always tend to tell people that it's up to the student to succeed, not the institution.

As a word of advice, many people who get this concerned with prestige will at one point burn out at one point or another when they realize they tend to do things for others (e.g. institutions, applications) rather than keep themselves happy. If you are going to feel worthless or disappointed by "dipping too low" during med school apps, don't go to the HYPS and go to your state school. If you are excited by the ability to do research with specific PIs, interested in specific departments, etc.., then yeah, go the HYPS. Don't treat college as a means to an end.

As for your other question, plenty of people are traditional and go directly out of undergrad to med school. GPA and MCAT are by far the biggest indicators of where you interview and then get accepted, so I would focus on those over all else.

 

[capriccio]

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[lalalallala]

Yes many of the students attending top medical schools are traditional students. Sure it is easier to have all of the clinical and research experiences needed if you have more time but I am coming from a top UG and am not taking a gap year and I know that it is all possible.

That being said, I really think you need to evaluate what your priorities are. You should go to the medical school that is the best fit for you. Many of the top 20/30/40 medical schools are great and have great programs. US New's Rankings are not well respected. You do not need to go to a top 10 (people don't even completely agree on what the top 10 medical schools are).

Your undergrad experience is worthwhile if you learn and you enjoy it. Its value does not decrease because you attend a medical school that is not Harvard or Stanford. If your entire life is looking at those rankings and trying to maximize your prestige (whether for your own pride or your parents') then you will be disappointed.

 

[lalalallala]

My advice to you is to RELAX, go to whatever top school you want to go to, start your pre-reqs early, and meet with a pre-medical advisor at your undergrad to discuss when you will do each of the pre-reqs and study for the MCAT. Then you can find a volunteering and research opportunity at your school. This is an exciting time for you - heading to college. There is no need to be so intense about the medical school admissions process - making many threads asking if Stanford students get into medical school etc. Relax. Don't make your entire life about applying to medical school.

 

[freedoctor17]

When i see posts like these I'm thankful that i didn't decide on premed until after starting college.

OP if you got into a too undergrad and genuinely like the school then go to it. If you don't really like it then don't go to it. It's that simple. The top school might offer more opportunities, especially if you end up switching out of premed since that's when the name can be especially useful. If you're 100% dead set on premed though you can do that from anywhere if you get a high gpa and high mcat score. Just make sure there's a hospital nearby for easy volunteering/shadowing access and research opportunities. Many schools have those available.

 

[Gilakend]

If this is what med school kids at top schools are like I'm 'bout to be packing my sunblock.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

They're born in China and grew up in a region where taking a gap year is looked down upon.

Wait, there are regions of China that take offense at gap years? Err...
It really sounds like you need to educate your parents about the pathway to medical school and what it may entail.

 

[faerie62]

I understand parental/financial pressure but you cannot live your whole life letting them pressure you into big life decisions. I suggest talking to your parents about the gap year thing, involve them in planning to spend those years productively, show them data on nontrads getting into med school. If after all this they still don’t budge, consider that the majority of med students take loans out to pay for med school and/or receive financial aid offers, and they do fine.

 

[lalalallala]

I agree that you should try to educate your parents. I am not really sure what about a gap year is so upsetting culturally? You would be doing research or something worthwhile to boost your app. That being said I do not think you need a gap year unless you want one to space your pre-reqs/MCAT studying out.

The problem isn't that a gap year is necessary (it's not necessary)- the problem is that you seem way too obsessed with getting into a top 10 school based on some rankings you found on the internet and nothing other than a top UG and top med school will satisfy you and your parents. That is a big problem. You should want to be a doctor because that is the career that best suits you. Everyone knows you can get into medical school from Stanford, so the fact that you are still so concerned about medical school instead of preparing yourself for undergrad - looking at dorms, making friends, picking out classes - is concerning.

 

[lalalallala]

I am sad for you that you have grown up thinking that the only worthwhile paths are those that involve the greatest prestige. Stanford UG, a top 10 medical school, a super competitive speciality - that path is no better than a non top 10 medical school and being a primary care physician. It is about how you treat people and patients and what you contribute to the world. I truly hope you and your parents can see that it is not about the school's name or the lowest acceptance rate.

 

[atomi]

Cringe-o-meter pegged reading this thread.

 

[PA_dud3]

I'd be alright with a decent DO school, lmao

 

[Peter Pan.]

Another wasted thread on SDN. sigh

 

[fds86]

This thread is sort of devolving into something like 1984's "Two Minutes Hate" where people are just railing against perceived "prestige mongers" so I might take some of these answers with a grain of salt.

To answer your question, you'll honestly be fine. Of HYPS, only Princeton is grade deflating; the rest have rampant grade inflation. It's honestly probably better to go to HYS than some of the lower T20s like washu/vanderbilt that are more on the deflating side. State schools aren't necessarily a cakewalk either, and having the extra opportunities afforded definitely makes the T5 preferable. There's also a non-zero chance that you end up wanting to do something other than med school - yes, it's possible to break in to any industry/position from anywhere if you work hard enough, but the T5 advantage can be huge in other professions. If you decide you want to be pulling in 150k as a 22 year old in IB/silicon valley, HYPS is a huge boon in getting to a top place.

As for what you need to do, I would just make sure to A) grind and get really good grades; B) scope out labs and try to join one early (freshman spring is good unless you're really ambitious - try to evaluate the lab for productivity/prestigious-ness/niceness; i.e. join the group run by someone like the school's MSTP director that publishes regularly, publishes in nature/science/high impact field specific journals, and seems chill/like they would let you get a paper out); and C) join some clubs for your interests/volunteering and try to put yourself on the leadership pipeline for one of the ones you like the best (i.e. try to get some small officer role early and do some networking). But really, just follow your passions - if you get too box-checky about it you might never evaluate if this is what you want to do. If it is, it will come naturally in a way.

On the subject of getting into med schools with out a gap year, it's very common, even at top schools. Even at the schools with the biggest gap year populations, it is probably at most 30:70 or 40:60 for the traditional:gap year ratio. So there's definitely a sizeable chunk that came straight through. I will say though, if you're traditional, your stats better be impeccable (like 3.95+ 522+) because you don't really have enough time to develop other interesting components on your CV (although you still certainly have to try to involve yourself in things). When they construct the class, you're there to balance out the kids with really interesting experiences but slightly lower stats, so you have to keep that in mind. From your prior posts it sounds like you already have publications from high school, which is amazing - you're already ahead of the game CV wise and shouldn't have trouble building something strong by the end of your junior year.

So to summarize on the main point of your question, I would say that A) traditional is not a big deal; and B) getting the grades to go the traditional route at a T5 is also not that big of a deal (although you might be more stressed out at princeton). You definitely will have to work hard though.

On some other points, I would say that you might need to slightly adjust some of your expectations. Getting a T10 acceptance is obviously dependent on merit but it's such a small cohort that it is also flukey and depends a lot upon luck - if you'd be disappointed with anything less than T10, you might be setting yourself up for failure since you might just get skunked come application time. If you're smart, work hard, don't screw up, and take advantage of all opportunities out of the T5 you can be pretty confident in a T20 acceptance, so I would adjust my expectations more to that.

Also, your parents' position is not necessarily set in stone. They have a lot more power over you now since you're 18 and still at home, but at 21 after being alone for a while you might feel a lot more independent. If you just go ahead and take a gap year, are they really going to disown you? What if you collected stats on how 60-70% of students at top schools take one and showed them? What if you got a research job offer with an amazing group or had some other exceptional opportunity? If they would, it might honestly be better to just cut the umbilicus now, and let them do it - if they'd disown you for that type of reason, it might be worth it just to be free of their control, financial consequences be damned. Also you could honestly just lie - like "oh i'm applying, oh no I got rejected!!! I have to reapply!!!" if you really wanted to take one later.

 

[gurt567]

I thank everyone who replied to this thread.
I accept that I'm incredibly naive and uneducated about this process, and if my words were offensive or off-putting to anyone, I sincerely apologize.

To answer the general question about why my parents are against a gap year-- where they're from it's seen as a sign of inadequacy and that "I don't have direction in life" although I know this isn't true at all, and can be used as meaningful time to explore other interests/regain drive.

Also, I'm just now learning about how competitive med school applications are in general, reading through reddit premed forums. I thought UG name played a much bigger factor, but I'm seeing that's not the case and its rather the individual's work ethic and what resources/activities the individual invests into.

 

[Lucca]

why do u want to go to medical school?

 

[DokterMom]

I thank everyone who replied to this thread.
I accept that I'm incredibly naive and uneducated about this process, and if my words were offensive or off-putting to anyone, I sincerely apologize.

To answer the general question about why my parents are against a gap year-- where they're from it's seen as a sign of inadequacy and that "I don't have direction in life" although I know this isn't true at all, and can be used as meaningful time to explore other interests/regain drive.

Also, I'm just now learning about how competitive med school applications are in general, reading through reddit premed forums. I thought UG name played a much bigger factor, but I'm seeing that's not the case and its rather the individual's work ethic and what resources/activities the individual invests into.

It is very possible that come junior year, you will need to decide between applying then and being competitive for a "mid tier" school and taking a gap year to become more competitive for "top tier". You might want to bear that possibility in mind and bring it up to your parents early in your junior year once you know about how competitive you are/aren't.

One of the very few post categories that sparks more outrage than this is the dreaded: "Oh no! I was just accepted to 'average' medical school but I really want Harvard. Should I decline the acceptance and reapply next year?"

 

[Gilakend]

This thread is sort of devolving into something like 1984's "Two Minutes Hate" where people are just railing against perceived "prestige mongers" so I might take some of these answers with a grain of salt.

To answer your question, you'll honestly be fine. Of HYPS, only Princeton is grade deflating; the rest have rampant grade inflation. It's honestly probably better to go to HYS than some of the lower T20s like washu/vanderbilt that are more on the deflating side. State schools aren't necessarily a cakewalk either, and having the extra opportunities afforded definitely makes the T5 preferable. There's also a non-zero chance that you end up wanting to do something other than med school - yes, it's possible to break in to any industry/position from anywhere if you work hard enough, but the T5 advantage can be huge in other professions. If you decide you want to be pulling in 150k as a 22 year old in IB/silicon valley, HYPS is a huge boon in getting to a top place.

As for what you need to do, I would just make sure to A) grind and get really good grades; B) scope out labs and try to join one early (freshman spring is good unless you're really ambitious - try to evaluate the lab for productivity/prestigious-ness/niceness; i.e. join the group run by someone like the school's MSTP director that publishes regularly, publishes in nature/science/high impact field specific journals, and seems chill/like they would let you get a paper out); and C) join some clubs for your interests/volunteering and try to put yourself on the leadership pipeline for one of the ones you like the best (i.e. try to get some small officer role early and do some networking). But really, just follow your passions - if you get too box-checky about it you might never evaluate if this is what you want to do. If it is, it will come naturally in a way.

On the subject of getting into med schools with out a gap year, it's very common, even at top schools. Even at the schools with the biggest gap year populations, it is probably at most 30:70 or 40:60 for the traditional:gap year ratio. So there's definitely a sizeable chunk that came straight through. I will say though, if you're traditional, your stats better be impeccable (like 3.95+ 522+) because you don't really have enough time to develop other interesting components on your CV (although you still certainly have to try to involve yourself in things). When they construct the class, you're there to balance out the kids with really interesting experiences but slightly lower stats, so you have to keep that in mind. From your prior posts it sounds like you already have publications from high school, which is amazing - you're already ahead of the game CV wise and shouldn't have trouble building something strong by the end of your junior year.

So to summarize on the main point of your question, I would say that A) traditional is not a big deal; and B) getting the grades to go the traditional route at a T5 is also not that big of a deal (although you might be more stressed out at princeton). You definitely will have to work hard though.

On some other points, I would say that you might need to slightly adjust some of your expectations. Getting a T10 acceptance is obviously dependent on merit but it's such a small cohort that it is also flukey and depends a lot upon luck - if you'd be disappointed with anything less than T10, you might be setting yourself up for failure since you might just get skunked come application time. If you're smart, work hard, don't screw up, and take advantage of all opportunities out of the T5 you can be pretty confident in a T20 acceptance, so I would adjust my expectations more to that.

Also, your parents' position is not necessarily set in stone. They have a lot more power over you now since you're 18 and still at home, but at 21 after being alone for a while you might feel a lot more independent. If you just go ahead and take a gap year, are they really going to disown you? What if you collected stats on how 60-70% of students at top schools take one and showed them? What if you got a research job offer with an amazing group or had some other exceptional opportunity? If they would, it might honestly be better to just cut the umbilicus now, and let them do it - if they'd disown you for that type of reason, it might be worth it just to be free of their control, financial consequences be damned. Also you could honestly just lie - like "oh i'm applying, oh no I got rejected!!! I have to reapply!!!" if you really wanted to take one later.

While I understand and agree with most of what you are saying, I don’t think that the key to getting into top schools being a traditional student comes from having crazy high stats. You still need to be an individual they want, going to college doesn’t put your personal development on hold, non-trads definitely have more time for this, but being a traditional student you should still have interesting and differentiating components of your application.

I’m accepted to a T10/T20 school (depending on which rankings you use) and a traditional straight white male and had a 3.7 and 2 MCAT attempts coming from an undergrad with a 94% acceptance rate (open admissions essentially, pretty much anyone can get in). However, I do think I had a good “story”/motivations/experiences. I don’t think having a 3.95+/520+ makes up for lacking those X factors.

 

[dodolol21]

While I understand and agree with most of what you are saying, I don’t think that the key to getting into top schools being a traditional student comes from having crazy high stats. You still need to be an individual they want, going to college doesn’t put your personal development on hold, non-trads definitely have more time for this, but being a traditional student you should still have interesting and differentiating components of your application.

I’m accepted to a T10/T20 school (depending on which rankings you use) and a traditional straight white male and had a 3.7 and 2 MCAT attempts coming from an undergrad with a 94% acceptance rate (open admissions essentially, pretty much anyone can get in). However, I do think I had a good “story”/motivations/experiences. I don’t think having a 3.95+/520+ makes up for lacking those X factors.

Aren't you also IS for Michigan? Regional factors can't be completely ignored. Furthermore, I think for OP to really have a solid chance (i.e. multiple T10 interviews that would lead to minimum 1 accept, not just 1-2 T10 IIs leading to one accept, which would also requrie dope interview skills and good luck) having 3.9/524+ is present in probably 75%+ cases and would be safe advice to give

 

[capriccio]

To answer the general question about why my parents are against a gap year-- where they're from it's seen as a sign of inadequacy and that "I don't have direction in life" although I know this isn't true at all, and can be used as meaningful time to explore other interests/regain drive.

While it's definitely fine to set a goal for yourself to apply traditionally (that's what I've done after all!), I think it's worth trying to convince your parents that it's okay if you eventually feel that you need a little more time to polish your resume. You should try not to feel pressured into applying traditionally. I would definitely try to find data about the number of non-trad matriculants—for example, the class of 2022 at Penn is 67% non-traditional. Giving them concrete numbers will probably help them at least soften their stance about gap years should you ever want them.

 

[grapp]

I think so, just make sure it's really what you want! 🙂

 

[fds86]

While I understand and agree with most of what you are saying, I don’t think that the key to getting into top schools being a traditional student comes from having crazy high stats. You still need to be an individual they want, going to college doesn’t put your personal development on hold, non-trads definitely have more time for this, but being a traditional student you should still have interesting and differentiating components of your application.

I’m accepted to a T10/T20 school (depending on which rankings you use) and a traditional straight white male and had a 3.7 and 2 MCAT attempts coming from an undergrad with a 94% acceptance rate (open admissions essentially, pretty much anyone can get in). However, I do think I had a good “story”/motivations/experiences. I don’t think having a 3.95+/520+ makes up for lacking those X factors.

I agree - not every traditional applicant has perfect stats, and there are always exceptions to patterns, which I should have mentioned in my post. I sort of meant it more on a trend level, especially for applicants of OPs variety. From what they report, they're sort of a "silver spoon" type of applicant: probably from a big city (published research in high school), T5 undergrad, ORM, top income bracket (parents that can afford to pay for undergrad+medschool). If you've been afforded access to every possible opportunity and have had every possible advantage, they're going to expect you to have something to show for it (i.e. nice stats).

 

[deleted962973]

lol no need to be so interrogating to the young one

this is true statement, should heed this advice

Yes this is very possible. Keep up a 3.9+ GPA, score 524+ on the MCAT, have 1 year of clinical experience, 100 hours of shadowing, 2 years of volunteering, and 1-2 years of research with at least a poster or two, preferably a publication. Combine this with strong letters of recommendation and a well written application and you should not have difficulty cracking into top medical schools given good interviewing skills.
(for anyone else reading no I'm not being sarcastic this is serious advice--and I'm sure it is achievable for OP)

He’s not a young one. Unless OP started college at like 15, he’s an adult, which means it’s unacceptably privileged at this point to act as though the only schools that mean anything are T10s. Coming from a family of modest means who worked their way to success, I would hope I never have a doctor who looks down on me (or on his own colleagues) because they weren’t born into a world of privilege. I think the more important question isn’t whether or not getting into a T10 med school is achievable for OP- I would ask why OP wants to go to med school in the first place.

 

[fds86]

I don't think the OP was saying that they are too good for any non T10 med school - I think it was more of a quality of life question. Basically, they are acknowledging that if they go to a T5 undergrad they're going to have to work really hard and might be very stressed, and if they're going to have to work exceptionally hard, they'd like to know they have a reasonable shot at an exceptional payoff (T10). They go on to say that if they don't have a reasonable shot at a payoff matching their investment (due to the no gap year thing), why not just go to the state school where they're a bit less stressed?

To use a metaphor, it would sort of be like a high school football player getting recruited by LSU and an ivy. If they go to LSU, they know they're there for football - other parts of their life would yield to it (i.e. they can't always follow their interests/majors of choice due to time constraints). Going to the ivy would mean football would be less of a priority, and they could better follow their interests. They might get on FDN (football doctor network) and ask what their chances were for the NFL - if they were never going to make it anyway, why make the lifestyle investment into football at LSU? You wouldn't poop on that person for being arrogant about their NFL chances and tell them that they should be happy to play in the CFL as well - they just want to know if the "juice will be worth the squeeze".

 

[931408]

I don't think the OP was saying that they are too good for any non T10 med school - I think it was more of a quality of life question. Basically, they are acknowledging that if they go to a T5 undergrad they're going to have to work really hard and might be very stressed, and if they're going to have to work exceptionally hard, they'd like to know they have a reasonable shot at an exceptional payoff (T10). They go on to say that if they don't have a reasonable shot at a payoff matching their investment (due to the no gap year thing), why not just go to the state school where they're a bit less stressed?

To use a metaphor, it would sort of be like a high school football player getting recruited by LSU and an ivy. If they go to LSU, they know they're there for football - other parts of their life would yield to it (i.e. they can't always follow their interests/majors of choice due to time constraints). Going to the ivy would mean football would be less of a priority, and they could better follow their interests. They might get on FDN (football doctor network) and ask what their chances were for the NFL - if they were never going to make it anyway, why make the lifestyle investment into football at LSU? You wouldn't poop on that person for being arrogant about their NFL chances and tell them that they should be happy to play in the CFL as well - they just want to know if the "juice will be worth the squeeze".

I don't really understand why people say that top schools will make you more stressed than state schools. Many public universities are absolutely excellent. It's really up to the classes you take at a university that can make your schedule more challenging. You can also breeze through your degree at a T20 undergrad, taking classes that are known to be really easy. It was terrible to see many of my peers in college do exactly this and graduate with a very high GPA, basically take college as a means to an end. I know so many people who went to a lesser ranked undergrad who were Goldwater fellows too, which shows that it's what you do that matters, not as much where you go.

Football, in my opinion, is just a different beast. The resources, funding, and competition are significantly different in the SEC compared to most other conferences.I don't find this to be the same case in undergrad. Full disclosure: I graduated from a T20 undergrad.

 

[deleted962973]

I don't really understand why people say that top schools will make you more stressed than state schools. Many public universities are absolutely excellent.

It’s good old fashioned elitism. Don’t some 80% of Harvard grads graduate cum laude or better? So why exactly is their education more stressful than at a state school where grade inflation isn’t as rampant?

 

[Wahkoon]

It’s good old fashioned elitism. Don’t some 80% of Harvard grads graduate cum laude or better? So why exactly is their education more stressful than at a state school where grade inflation isn’t as rampant?

A lot of these schools are very blatant with it too. This notion is pretty irritating. I went to a state school where many of my courses had a cap on how many people could get an A (usually 5-10% of the class). The MCAT isn’t perfect, but i think it significantly helps bridge this gap. Personally, I’ve been below the 10th percentile for GPA, but at/above the median MCAT at about half of schools at which I’ve interviewed.

 

[salpinx minx]

Hey OP,

I go to a top 3 medical school. Just remember that med school admissions are a crapshoot. I say this as someone with 4th year friends who work in admissions and are student interviewers. There are no guarantees.

That being said, I never "planned" to end up where I ended up, it just...happened. I would have been perfectly fine going to my midwestern state school. I actually think the fact that I didn't shape my whole life around my med school application is the very reason I ended up at my T3 - that "story" made me stand out to admissions.
I also had time to a gain a little perspective. Perspective is everything in med school. So few med students have it. Do yourself a favor and spend lots of time around people whose biggest fear in life is something a lot scarier than not ending up at a T10 med school. This can be done whether or not you take a year off.

Spend less time worrying about what will make you a good premed, and more time considering what will make you a good doctor.

 

[DokterMom]

Hey OP,

I go to a top 3 medical school. Just remember that med school admissions are a crapshoot. I say this as someone with 4th year friends who work in admissions and are student interviewers. There are no guarantees.

That being said, I never "planned" to end up where I ended up, it just...happened. I would have been perfectly fine going to my midwestern state school. I actually think the fact that I didn't shape my whole life around my med school application is the very reason I ended up at my T3 - that "story" made me stand out to admissions.
I also had time to a gain a little perspective. Perspective is everything in med school. So few med students have it. Do yourself a favor and spend lots of time around people whose biggest fear in life is something a lot scarier than not ending up at a T10 med school. This can be done whether or not you take a year off.

Spend less time worrying about what will make you a good premed, and more time considering what will make you a good doctor.

It shows. Kudos.