Going to See First Surgeries - Advice?

[DrArete]

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So, for a long time I have been trying to shadow a doctor, volunteer in a hospital, or scrub into an OR. It just hasn't happened though - in the European country I am living in, these are not common practices. It also doesn't help that I am an American and not a permanent resident here.

Anyway, I have kept on pushing, not least of which because I am non trad heading for a post bacc in the USA, and have been having second thoughts, and thought that getting some direct exposure would help me make a decision.

Finally, I pulled some strings through a personal connection with one of the children of a major hospitals director of surgery.

The two surgeries I am supposed to see are for colon cancer, and for a tumor on someone's pelvis.

I have never been in an OR before.

What should I look for? Any advice on how to take advantage of this one shot opportunity?

 

[surftheiop]

So, for a long time I have been trying to shadow a doctor, volunteer in a hospital, or scrub into an OR. It just hasn't happened though - in the European country I am living in, these are not common practices. It also doesn't help that I am an American and not a permanent resident here.

Anyway, I have kept on pushing, not least of which because I am non trad heading for a post bacc in the USA, and have been having second thoughts, and thought that getting some direct exposure would help me make a decision.

Finally, I pulled some strings through a personal connection with one of the children of a major hospitals director of surgery.

The two surgeries I am supposed to see are for colon cancer, and for a tumor on someone's pelvis.

I have never been in an OR before.

What should I look for? Any advice on how to take advantage of this one shot opportunity?

Make sure your well hydrated/feed/slept before you go.

If you start feeling like you will pass out, step back and sit down.

 

[pdeco1]

Show no emotion.

 

[AH3]

Make sure your well hydrated/feed/slept before you go.

If you start feeling like you will pass out, step back and sit down.

Definitely do this. My friend was interested in physical therapy and didn't eat before he shadowed a physical therapist. A fall from passing out and a couple stitches in the head later, he decided on going into business instead.

 

[Food]

Definitely do this. My friend was interested in physical therapy and didn't eat before he shadowed a physical therapist. A fall from passing out and a couple stitches in the head later, he decided on going into business instead.

Seriously dude? Exactly what sort of experience could you have an PT that would make you pass out? At least, the way I've seen it done is relatively relaxed and not too intense.

 

[BBender716]

Quickest way to tick off anyone in the OR is to enter the sterile field or touch anything blue.

Come to think of it, this thread would be a helluva lot funnier if it were "Things I should NOT do during my first surgery"

 

[surftheiop]

Seriously dude? Exactly what sort of experience could you have an PT that would make you pass out? At least, the way I've seen it done is relatively relaxed and not too intense.

Standing for long periods of time + nervousness + low blood sugar

Doesn't really matter what your doing

You never saw someone feint during elementary school plays/chorus/etc?

 

[orthomyxo]

Standing for long periods of time + nervousness + low blood sugar

Doesn't really matter what your doing

You never saw someone feint during elementary school plays/chorus/etc?

Wtf, no?? Although it would've made them much more interesting.

 

[orthomyxo]

Don't take scrubs off, wear comfortable shoes, don't ask too many questions. I've only shadowed one surgery but the nurse was an absolute bitch, so I'd watch out for those.

It was also the first time I've seen a woman completely naked, unfortunately it was a fat old lady. Arrrrgh my eyes!

LMFAO 😆🤣

 

[Alvarez13]

Quickest way to tick off anyone in the OR is to enter the sterile field or touch anything blue.

Come to think of it, this thread would be a helluva lot funnier if it were "Things I should NOT do during my first surgery"

Hahaha! Don't eat any junior mints (so many surgeons reference that bit).

But yah, don't touch anything blue and don't stare with knees locked for a long period of time. If you feel warm/faint, step back and either sit down, take a knee, or do some calf raises/squats/flex muscles below the waist to get some blood back towards your head.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

Make sure your mask is on correctly, if not you'll end up asphyxiating yourself and feeling like fainting.

Don't wear extra clothes under your scrubs. You're better off being freezing than too hot. Too hot + hot OR lights = fainting

 

[surftheiop]

Wtf, no?? Although it would've made them much more interesting.

You haven't seen Pocahontas unless you've seen it with kids wearing really warm deer-skin suits dropping like flies from the singing section.

Although that is a bit of an exaggeration because as soon as one went down everyone started flipping out

 

[Toofison]

Make sure to adjust your mask as best as possible before you scrub in (if they let you). Otherwise, you'll be up ****-stratchy creek without a paddle for the duration of the procedure. Also, one surgeon I shadowed specifically made me wear a visor because he was fond of spraying people with blood, so watch out .

 

[Tiktaalik]

Never lock your knees. Eat beforehand. Bring a granola bar and a bottle of water to leave in the lounge or something so you can leave and refuel if you get dizzy. Forget don't touch blue, don't touch anything unless told to. Never let any part of you go over the field, including (especially) your head. Really watch your head, actually. Mine kept going places it wasn't supposed to (over the field, into a light, etc), b/c I was so focused on watching.

If you feel sick or dizzy, GTFO. Don't be a hero.

Also, don't get so overly concerned about getting in the way that you spaz. You'll get in the way no matter what you do, as a person present who's not helping, so when it happens just carefully and purposefully move out of the way again.

 

[AUD]

Don't fall into an open cavity. Cleaning that off of you will be a pain.

 

[AH3]

Seriously dude? Exactly what sort of experience could you have an PT that would make you pass out? At least, the way I've seen it done is relatively relaxed and not too intense.

Yeah, no joke. I think they were pulling some bloody gauze out of a wound or something. I volunteered in the ER about a year later and he's still legendary there because he had to go there to get stitched up. A lot of the nurses still remembered him .

 

[sizillyd]

Get ready for the terrible smell of burning flesh. During the operations I have witnessed, the first 15 minutes is the worst because they cut through the skin with a really hot instrument. Definitely wear comfortable shoes because after an hour, your feet are going to hurt. So is your back. Don't touch anything sterile, stay out of the way of the anesthesiologist or anyone else trying to work, you are merely an accessory. If you don't know what something is, ask. But don't ask the surgeon. He is way too focused to answer any questions. Ask the anesthesiologist. This is what I did. But the anesthesiologist on the surgery was really cool. Good luck! Learn!!!

 

[7starmantis]

It was also the first time I saw a woman completely naked, unfortunately it was a fat old lady. Arrrrgh my eyes!

 

[Hurricane95]

Get ready for the terrible smell of burning flesh. During the operations I have witnessed, the first 15 minutes is the worst because they cut through the skin with a really hot instrument.

Gotta love the bovie. In my honest opinion electrocauterized flesh smells a lot like bacon. Kinda makes me feel like I'm at IHOP rather than the OR for the initial few minutes of the case. For some reason, I'm also always starving after surgery.

By the way, surgeons are not gods who cannot be spoken to. Sure, sometimes if they are focused and doing something that takes concentration like approximating an anastamoses or handling an unexpected bleed, then that may not be the best time to be annoying and asking a whole lot of questions. But for the most part when a case is going smoothly, you can ask and he'll most likely teach you a thing or two. It's pretty easy to tell when they're chilling and just running through routine moves. If they're laughing or talking about what's up this weekend, that's a perfectly good time to pitch questions. Most surgeons, if they were nice enough to give you an OK to shadow to begin with, don't mind you being there and trying to see/learn stuff. The surgeons who hate having observers there won't let people shadow. Period. That's why med school has a bit of both types...at an academic institution med students rotating through surgery are not always greeted nicely by all surgeons, bc surgeons in academia have no choice about letting you in the OR to begin with.

Eat, drink (but not too much...i always try to be like 50-60% hydrated if I'm scrubbing in to a case longer than 2 hours) and be rested. Don't worry, it's not the huge deal that some people make it out to be. If you're doing long cases (3+ hours), avoid running shoes. While they are great for walking around long hours in the hospital rounding and doing floorwork, in my opinion they SUCK for standing long periods of time. My favorite footwear for the OR is crocs. If anyone laughs at you for wearing them, tell them to go f* themselves. They're spongy and bear weight well, and you can easily slip them off intermittently to stretch your feet if they hurt.

Most of all, learn, and have fun 👍

 

[FloatOn]

Gotta love the bovie. In my honest opinion electrocauterized flesh smells a lot like bacon. Kinda makes me feel like I'm at IHOP rather than the OR for the initial few minutes of the case. For some reason, I'm also always starving after surgery.

By the way, surgeons are not gods who cannot be spoken to. Sure, sometimes if they are focused and doing something that takes concentration like approximating an anastamoses or handling an unexpected bleed, then that may not be the best time to be annoying and asking a whole lot of questions. But for the most part when a case is going smoothly, you can ask and he'll most likely teach you a thing or two. It's pretty easy to tell when they're chilling and just running through routine moves. If they're laughing or talking about what's up this weekend, that's a perfectly good time to pitch questions. Most surgeons, if they were nice enough to give you an OK to shadow to begin with, don't mind you being there and trying to see/learn stuff. The surgeons who hate having observers there won't let people shadow. Period. That's why med school has a bit of both types...at an academic institution med students rotating through surgery are not always greeted nicely by all surgeons, bc surgeons in academia have no choice about letting you in the OR to begin with.

Eat, drink (but not too much...i always try to be like 50-60% hydrated if I'm scrubbing in to a case longer than 2 hours) and be rested. Don't worry, it's not the huge deal that some people make it out to be. If you're doing long cases (3+ hours), avoid running shoes. While they are great for walking around long hours in the hospital rounding and doing floorwork, in my opinion they SUCK for standing long periods of time. My favorite footwear for the OR is crocs. If anyone laughs at you for wearing them, tell them to go f* themselves. They're spongy and bear weight well, and you can easily slip them off intermittently to stretch your feet if they hurt.

Most of all, learn, and have fun 👍

Lolwut? Makes me wonder what type of bacon you eat...The burning flesh smells like nastiness to me, but you do kinda do get used to it.

To repeat everything mentioned in the above posts, because it's THAT important:

-Make sure to eat and drink beforehand
-Keep your hands to yourself
-Don't touch anything blue unless asked to
-Ask questions at the appropriate time. Anesthesiologists are pretty chill people. Talk to them too.
-Wear comfortable shoes
-Have fun 🙂

 

[CapnCrunch]

Don't be the fool that faints. It happens, but if you begin to feel like you might, then leave. Watch some youtube videos of a similar surgery or just general surgery so that way you know what you're in for.

Basically, everyone has given you great advice... I'd harp on the points of be sure to not to bother the surgeon with questions (s/he'll tell you what you what they want to) and be sure to get out of the way.

I had a buddy faint while we were watching a Cesarean section and landed on some kind machine that was sucking the fluids... Luckily, everything was still fine, but I got a nice yelling for it.

 

[DrArete]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I will post a thread tomorrow about how it goes.

One thing that has occurred to me as I am reading up on this, is that for the two people who are coming into the OR tomorrow, one who has a cancer with multiple mets, and one who they dont know yet if there are mets, it is a huge day that will affect the course of their lives...but for the surgeon who is letting me shadow and who has 30 yrs of experience, it is just another day at the office.

 

[goldandapager]

Don't eat Junior Mints

 

[Geekchick921]

Make sure your well hydrated/feed/slept before you go.

If you start feeling like you will pass out, step back and sit down.

This is exactly what I was going to say. The only time I ever felt like I was going to faint watching a procedure (a difficult chest tube), I hadn't eaten breakfast (morning sickness, blech).

 

[MedcatHouse]

Here's a very informative thread about someone in a similar position:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=555582

...since everyone has given quite helpful advice.

I absolutely second the post about being ready for the smell of burnt flesh. Woo, I felt sooo dizzy the first time I felt it. Also, depending on the surgery, you may find you are not completely immune to the sight of blood. I had shadowed a few surgeries before my first with an Orthopedic surgeon, and seeing this man insert half his arm inside a child's infected wound (leg) made me queasy. Also...not a fan of oral surgeries.

 

[VTBuc]

I actually passed out my first time in an operating room. If you're not used to breathing in a surgical mask, it can be rough. As mentioned, make sure you get plenty of sleep the night before and make absolutely sure you eat something in the morning. Trust me, passing out is super embarrassing and everyone assumes it's because you got grossed out even though that has nothing to do with it.

Also, everyone in the OR wears Crocs..I know I'll be buying a pair. 😀

 

[TakeMe]

So whatdo you do if you have to pee? Can you use this as an excuse if you are feeling dizzy so you don't faint in front of everyone like a putz?

 

[MedcatHouse]

So whatdo you do if you have to pee? Can you use this as an excuse if you are feeling dizzy so you don't faint in front of everyone like a putz?

Nope. If there is something surgeons hate more than queasy pre-meds, it's those who can't hold their bladders indefinitely. You're better off passing out 😉

 

[Tiktaalik]

So whatdo you do if you have to pee? Can you use this as an excuse if you are feeling dizzy so you don't faint in front of everyone like a putz?

I just said I needed a drink of water. A lot of people feel squeamish at first - most doctors (vet and regular) I know wouldn't judge someone for needing to step out and clear their head for a second the first time. Your excuse would work fine, though.

I personally find the act of watching to be more dizziness-inducing than actually participating, because you're not doing anything but standing there, and there's no work to focus on to take your mind off things that make you squeamish. Also, watching surgery isn't a very natural thing to do, and it takes time to build up resistance to the sight of all the guts and blood. So if you feel a little dizzy at first, don't worry - it likely doesn't reflect your ability to handle it in the long term.

 

[dyeguy21]

And that smell, the one that seems to come from the little puffs of smoke...yes that's the smell of seared human flesh. It will shock you at first and then just smell "unpleasant", but at least you get used to it.

 

[VTBuc]

The little chunks that fly off the bonesaws can be a little gross, too! If you're close to the operating table, grab a mask with an eye cover so you don't get hit by bone shrapnel!

 

[FloatOn]

So whatdo you do if you have to pee? Can you use this as an excuse if you are feeling dizzy so you don't faint in front of everyone like a putz?

I say use the restroom beforehand. Even if you ask for directions during the procedure, it feels awkward wandering around by yourself, and since hospitals love to be confusing, it's sometimes awkward finding your way back.

If you're feeling lightheaded, just say you're dizzy and you're going to step out for a couple of minutes. Or just find a stool and plop yourself down.

 

[DrArete]

Just spoke with the attending over the phone, to get ready for tomorrow.

I wanted some more details, however, my Spanish while fluent, is not perfect on complex medical terminology over a bad phone connection with an Andalusian accent.

In general, I was told to look over some anatomy.

Anyhow, I was told that first patient has a cancer affecting the right colon, and that I would be well served to review some details of the vascular system beforehand. For the second patient, who has previously been operated on for her cancer, there is a suspicious mass in the pelvis behind the vaginal wall, and the surgery is going to evolve depending on what he sees when he opens her up.

I know it sounds lame, but I am just googling colon and pelvic cancer, looking at youtube videos, and some very basic anatomy. But, to be fair, I suppose that is all that time allows.

I just don't want to look like an idiot, since I consider this surgeon to be a hero in many ways. He has a very strong reputation, decades of experience, and according to everyone who knows him, he is one of those rare surgeons who LOVES his job. Also, he works for a salary that is considerably less than what nurses make in the USA.

I am looking to him for inspiration, because within our lifetimes, there will be a national/socialized healthcare system in the USA, don't believe anyone who thinks otherwise, and I want to prepare myself for the realities of that world.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

So, for a long time I have been trying to shadow a doctor, volunteer in a hospital, or scrub into an OR. It just hasn't happened though - in the European country I am living in, these are not common practices. It also doesn't help that I am an American and not a permanent resident here.

Anyway, I have kept on pushing, not least of which because I am non trad heading for a post bacc in the USA, and have been having second thoughts, and thought that getting some direct exposure would help me make a decision.

Finally, I pulled some strings through a personal connection with one of the children of a major hospitals director of surgery.

The two surgeries I am supposed to see are for colon cancer, and for a tumor on someone's pelvis.


I have never been in an OR before.

What should I look for? Any advice on how to take advantage of this one shot opportunity?

It's crazy cool. Also, literally, it can be awfully cool (cold) in the OR so be aware of that.

Here's my experience. When I was in paramedic school we had to rotate through the OR so that could practice intubating people. Also, the exposure to the monitors was a way to learn more about resp and card rhythms.

Anyway, all we had to do really was intubate, check for tube placement, and move on to the next OR if we wanted and do it again. Most guys knocked about five a day out and then went home. I always stuck around for the surgeries. Granted, I don't have any interest in becoming a surgeon. I was young and told the doctors that I was also a premed kind of guy so they took me under their wings and shown me stuff they ordinarily wouldn't have showed medic students. Anesthesiologists and surgeons both told me all of what they were doing and why. Surgeons were having the circulators get stools so I can stand up behind them and gaze into the hole they were working in. It was pretty cool. I really enjoyed the experience. I spent probably a week doing this and one day a male CRNA showed his ass, and I never went back. I had more than filled my quota of intubations anyway so it wasn't much of a big deal.