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deleted1140407
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I don’t have advice but just want to say I’m so sorry for the loss of your dad and the position you’re in. We all make mistakes and I hope internship sites are understanding about this. Sending you internet hugs!
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As a 2nd-year, you have a better opportunity to rehab your application than say, someone applying this fall. If you can get it expunged, all the better. Aside from that, you need to make sure your record and application are free of red flags aside from this incident. Committees will look past one red flag from an otherwise good application. Throw more red flags on there and it's just not worth it considering you have many good applications for every spot you offer (aside from some less desirable internships).
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As a quick reply, I would agree with WisNeuro--I don't think one such situation is going to ruin your chances of matching, although it may impact things to varying degrees at different sites. A lot will just depend on the rest of your application, what you do between now and then, and how the situation is described (if at all; not sure how it being expunged might fit into that, how questions are worded on the APPIC application, etc.).
In the short-term, though, I'd say there are more important things to focus on just in terms of taking care of yourself first and foremost, and seeing where you are with your program.
In the short-term, though, I'd say there are more important things to focus on just in terms of taking care of yourself first and foremost, and seeing where you are with your program.
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Hi honor233, just wanted to say take a deep breath and remember that we all make mistakes. Focus on making important steps now to take care of yourself and what you need to feel physically, emotionally, and mentally healthy. Sounds like you're already making great steps to help rectify this experience. You already have some good advice on here - just know not all is lost because of one mistake! It'll be okay.
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deleted1140407
Thank you all for the encouraging words. I did not sleep at all last night, just tossing and turning, thinking about how stupid I was. I appreciate the advice on taking care of my mental and physical health, but this is probably going to last for a while until the case has a result. I am working on hiring an attorney to help me dismiss the charges, but that might require me to enter into a diversion program. All in all, definitely learned my lesson the hard way.
Do you guys think I need to disclose this to my school? I would prefer not because I don't want to get expelled or lose my funding. I already passed the background check when I entered, but I don't know if we are obligated to inform our program of any arrests.
Do you guys think I need to disclose this to my school? I would prefer not because I don't want to get expelled or lose my funding. I already passed the background check when I entered, but I don't know if we are obligated to inform our program of any arrests.
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If this is not completely and officially expunged, I believe they will need to know prior to applying to internship. Of course, if you have to sign any paperwork for school or a practicum placement and you are asked about arrests/convictions, be honest about it, otherwise you're committing fraud.
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deleted1140407
Sorry do you mean I would still have to disclose it if asked about it even if it was officially expunged? I thought the point of getting an expungement is that I can legally deny it ever happened?
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a close friend of mine had this exact thing happen. 2nd year of grad school. she went through every possible way (thousands and thousands of dollars of attorney's fees) to get it sealed, expunged, etc. She then didnt disclose it on any appi stuff/internship stuff for applications because of how the question was worded. Got to internship. They THEN found it in a more detailed background check they did after the fact and she already was on internship. and they were not happy at all. I dont know if she matches to her great site had she disclosed. Long story short, i honestly dont think there is any way to hide stuff, even if it gets "expunged." So be up front about it. and talk about how it was an outlier and how you remediated it.
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I meant if you did not have it expunged. Obviously, verify with your attorney. Also, I believe a federal background check will still show expunged records. This will mostly come into play for VA/federal prison type positions, but shouldn't be a huge deal.
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I'd definitely check with an attorney about this (both with respect to needing to disclose to your program and how you might need to respond to questions in the future). Some questions may say something equivalent to, "have you ever been convicted of anything more than a minor traffic offense?" I don't know if you'd need to answer "yes" to that even if the charge has been expunged. May depend on technicalities relating to how it's expunged, etc.
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deleted1140407
Thanks for sharing. Good to know there are people out there going through similar issues.. I am also looking at an absurd attorney bill, all for $100 worth of items...
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deleted1140407
Yes, my attorney seems very experienced in this and will definitely advise me on how to answer these questions properly. I think he is looking to get the case dismissed by having me do a diversion program, so I will likely not get convicted.
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Agreed with all of the comments above, including those encouraging you to continuing taking steps to take care of yourself and focus on your immediate needs.
Also agree very much with @PsySeeker and you should review your program handbook (and probably the overall graduate student handbook for your university) asap if you haven’t and figure out the student conduct policies.
I imagine this could be especially relevant if you are seeing patients via a department/institution run clinic, as well as with any external practicum sites you may be affiliated with.
Also agree very much with @PsySeeker and you should review your program handbook (and probably the overall graduate student handbook for your university) asap if you haven’t and figure out the student conduct policies.
I imagine this could be especially relevant if you are seeing patients via a department/institution run clinic, as well as with any external practicum sites you may be affiliated with.
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deleted1140407
Just checked the department handbook and the student responsibility handbook, no mention of mandatory disclosure of arrests
Many/most universities have extensive conduct policies that extend to behavior in the community and encourage reporting by self or others and may actively or passively monitor public records/news (e.g. if someone comes across it somehow). Would advice discussing this situation and how to approach with your legal counsel as well.
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This seems like good advice to me.
One thing I’ll note from having worked at a college in student affairs is that each college is very much it’s own self-governing entity.
Obviously federal laws and certain guidelines for state institutions must be followed but concepts like due process may be made by the will of one or a small group of people (your dept leadership versus physics dept leadership) who may play outsized roles in decisions, with some people getting a lot of leeway and others getting not so much. And other departments/individuals in leadership may not be able to or are not incentivized to overturn other decisions.
So say you don't disclose per legal advice and/or personal choice, if a problem emerges in the future, things can get very complicated and potentially out of your control. YMMV but perhaps some food for thought as you navigate this next period.
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Every external practicum site I've had has done a background check on me. This is likely to come up at some point even before internship apps.
Yes, and if they find out and resent that you omitted this they may be less inclined to help you on other matters when it's at their discretion.
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deleted1140407
I actually called the student office at my school and asked them in a hypothetical way if i need to disclose an arrest, and they said no.
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Just as a quick point of clarification, make sure you are explicit regarding the rules for undergraduate vs. graduate and also as an employee of the university. In many programs, you are not merely a student, you are also an employee of the university. And, as such, you are beholden to both the student guidelines as well as the guidelines as an employee of the university.
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As WisNeuro pointed out, you're talking about different roles and levels of rules. What applies for undergrads is different from grad students and from employees. You may be considered as an employee by virtue of receiving funding (I am for my program) and that may have different rules.
And as I noted earlier, it's not just about whether you "need" to disclose, it's also about whether you should disclose it to certain people in your department (e.g., your mentor and/or DCT) and whether they would hold it against you for not doing so.
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This has come up on SDN before, not petty theft per se, but with a DUI charge / conviction. You can probably search for DUI within the psych forum and some threads should pop up.
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Perhaps one thing to consider is how your training director would respond to that question and whether they would expect/demand a student to disclose such an event, thinks this should be handled on a case by case scenario, or if a student has zero obligation to ever disclose.
In addition to what WisNeuro wrote regarding student vs employee obligations (since you're funded, you likely have employee or quasi-employee status), your legal status may impact things such as current and future practicum placements (even if you enter diversion and get this eventually expunged).
For example, are there additional discussions that your TD may need to have with community placements while you are in the diversion process since this would likely show up on a background check? What advice might they eventually provide for internship to help support a good match? And can they provide you some added support through this next period?
I doubt that getting arrested for shoplifting is an immediate dismissal, especially since your program handbook doesn't explicitly state a 1 legal entanglement strike and you're out rule and I've read other similar posts about things like DUIs and internship. But I imagine some programs will also want/expect to work with you to create a plan for how to move forward effectively to avoid this from ever happening again.
They would certainly be difficult conversations to have but these will definitely be easier to have now than 2 years down the line and the question becomes 'Why are we hearing about this now?!?!?!?!?!'
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This is exactly the kind of thing I was alluding to earlier. OP doesn't tell their mentor or DCT and then applies for external prac where the arrest comes up on a background check. It makes the DCT and program look bad that they wouldn't know about and/or wouldn't disclose to the supervisor at the site (whose license is on the line) about the arrest and lets them be blindsided about it. I can imagine faculty in their program getting pissed off about that.
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deleted1140407
But the arrest will not come up if my record is expunged unless my external practicum site is at the VA or a hospital, I think
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Even if that were true, you're going to forgo any VA or hospital based practica (and possibly any internship sites) just so that you don't have to tell anyone about what you did?
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Much longer term thinking, but some states (mine included) do run full FBI background checks with printing. Something like this would not preclude licensure, but may dictate how you have to answer that question on licensure paperwork.
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Second this. I remember my program required us to disclose this stuff within 24 hours or face some sort of negative consequence (like expulsion). But I don't know if that's across the board, I'm sure your program's handbook has something in it about these sorts of situations which might be worth checking if you haven't done so already and discussing it with your attorney as others have recommended.
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Ah, student visa issues make things much more complicated. Definitely follow up with your lawyer, and hopefully that lawyer has familiarity with student visa issues.
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It's good that you have a lawyer who has navigated these waters before. Definitely consult with them, as they are best positioned to offer you advice specific to your circumstances. As for the DCT stuff, I'd likely want to let them know sooner than later so it doesn't look like you are hiding everything. Thankfully it wasn't something more serious like elder fraud, violent offense, etc. While it will likely be a bit awkward at first, they likely would appreciate you coming to them instead of them getting caught w their pants down when a site calls to talk to them about it. As a supervisor, that is one of the worst feelings.
It can feel like your world is ending, but it is important to keep things in context and not let catastrophizing or similar take over. Students have navigated worse, like I said DUIs are the most common thing I've seen (besides failing a class, failing comps, etc), so it's important to work with your lawyer and they can help you navigate to the best option(s) for your situation. Best of luck.
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I would get any assurance in writing/email if possible. Always have a paper trail for things you may need to reference later.
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deleted1140407
That might be a bit difficult because the whole point of talking to the ombudsperson is to keep the conversation confidential. I am not entirely sure how I can get this in writing/email without revealing my personal information.
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If it's not in writing, it didn't happen. If it comes down later that you actually were supposed to disclose this information, you have no proof, and it becomes a they said/they said issue with plausible deniability on the University's part. You don't have to do this if you don't want to, but until you have something in writing in the student handbook or from the ombudsman, it's just hearsay.
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This thread reminds me a lot of the one from the person who wanted to renege on their post doc.
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deleted1140407
What do you mean?
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What a tough spot you're in! I really empathize with that. I don't have too much helpful to say, but I will say, when reviewing post-doc apps, I have seen a few with a prior arrest for a minor offense. Often an explanation is attached, and it has not change our impression of the applicant at all.
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deleted1140407
Thank you. I really needed to hear that. I have been obsessing with the thought that my career is over because this one stupid mistake...
Also it looks like AAPI application and licensure application in Florida don't ask for prior arrests, just prior convictions. If I were eligible for the diversion program and get the charges dropped, I might not have to disclose this on both applications.
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Remember, you haven't been charged with anything yet...
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Psychologists are really big on disclosure of everything, but it’s not always a good idea. Listen to your lawyer as this is a legal issue. They can tell you what you should say or not say and any psychologists or board member type person who thinks you should have told them against your lawyers advice, i highly doubt they will go against the lawyers that are advising them. Although you don’t want to have to do it, we can also sue schools and licensing boards who think they are above the law. I had an issue with a licensing board at the same time they were being sued by another applicant. Now I know how the family dog must feel after their owner had a bad day at the office.
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