Good Masters programs in Clinical Mental Health Counseling?

[aspiringpsych3384]

Hello guys! 🙂 I have been pondering for SUCH a long time whether I should go straight for a PsyD from undergrad, or go for master's first. I think I may be going for Master's first, as I have been hearing a lot of mixed reviews about PsyD programs/ how expensive it is.

I am just wondering if any of you lovely humans know of any great Master's programs in counseling, and if there are any with good funding?

My longterm goals are to be a psychologist dealing with clients on a 1:1 basis and have my own practice one day.

Thank you all of your answers in advance 🙂

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[deleted343839]

Something that isn't necessarily obvious but that you should be aware of is that completing a master's in counseling is not a typical stepping stone toward becoming a psychologist. If you have good grades and research experience, you can apply for doctoral programs in psychology without completing a master's. Fully funded doctoral programs are much more common than funded master's programs. Don't limit yourself to PsyD though.

 

[aspiringpsych3384]

Hmm interesting, thank you for this response. So are you saying people typically go straight for a doctorate in order to be a psychologist?
I'm not sure if I could get into a PhD program. I've got around 1-2 years of psych experience/research, but that's not a whole lot. I always have a 3.36 undergrad GPA.

Also I'm just not sure if I want to commit 6-7 years for a phD at the moment with my biological clock ticking.

 

[WisNeuro]

Hmm interesting, thank you for this response. So are you saying people typically go straight for a doctorate in order to be a psychologist?
I'm not sure if I could get into a PhD program. I've got around 1-2 years of psych experience/research, but that's not a whole lot. I always have a 3.36 undergrad GPA.

Also I'm just not sure if I want to commit 6-7 years for a phD at the moment with my biological clock ticking.

Any doctoral training is going to be 5-7 years in psychology. As for the straight to doctorate, most reputable programs have you earn your masters along the way, there is no real separation in the program, it's simply an expected milestone. As for biological clock, plenty of people have children in grad school, internship, postdoc. I didn't, and I'd make that choice again to wait, but everyone has their own circumstances and realities to consider.

 

[R. Matey]

Hmm interesting, thank you for this response. So are you saying people typically go straight for a doctorate in order to be a psychologist?
I'm not sure if I could get into a PhD program. I've got around 1-2 years of psych experience/research, but that's not a whole lot. I always have a 3.36 undergrad GPA.

Don't sell yourself short! This doesn't seem like a dealbreaker for clinically balanced Ph.D. programs. Maybe consider beefing up your research experience and doing well on the GRE. The master's in counseling -> Ph.D. route is much more common in counseling psychology than in clinical psychology. However, like @MamaPhD said, it's not a common route. This is because there are roughly 3-4x clinical psychology doctoral programs to counseling psychology doctoral programs. So, your chances are better with clinical as they are equally competitive. The other trouble with that route is that most master's program are unfunded where a B.A. direct admit to Ph.D. program in clinical psychology is more likely to provide some amount of funding all the way through.

If you decide you want to practice at the master's level, I think you'll find that most people on here will advise an MSW to an counseling degree as there are better opportunities for social workers than there are for counselors.

Also I'm just not sure if I want to commit 6-7 years for a phD at the moment with my biological clock ticking.

My partner and I had a kid in grad school and I had peers in the program who did also. It's a hustle, but it's very doable. My experience was that faculty and supervisors were incredibly supportive.

 

[foreverbull]

Most MA in counseling programs don’t have extensive funding, if any at all. In my master’s program, I had zero funding from the program itself, and neither did all of the other students except one (they had one assistantship position I think—for a program with 30+ students). It is not typical for these programs to have funding, so you’d have to look up each program and contact them if this info isn’t available on their website.

I did the MA then PhD route, and given how many years I was in school and struggling financially without a real salary (9 years of graduate schools and postdoc, which is a requirement in most states before licensure), plus higher debt accrual as a result, I don’t typically encourage this route. My peers in other fields climbed the ranks after getting their bachelor's and or master’s while I was in school and were earning similar salaries to the typical starting full time salary by the time I got out.

If you are set on getting a doctorate, I’d encourage you to get some related job experience and research experience for a year or so and then you can go straight into a doctoral program without the master’s and without accruing debt.

Side note: you may not need a doctorate if you just want a private practice; master’s level folks do that route all the time.

 

[CraftyCouns]

Something that may be worth researching is the difference in philosophy between clinical mental health counselors (operating from a wellness model) and psychologists (operating from a medical model) and what they do. This is not to say one is better over the other, just that there are differences (and many similarities, which is probably why you're drawn to both 🙂 ). Additionally, foreverbull is correct, LPCs (or LMHC, depending on state), do provide private practice work, and with many different populations!

And, I'm a bit bias, but if you want to do talk therapy/psychotherapy, MA/MS programs in counseling focus purely on training to provide therapy (if you go this route, make sure to go to a CACREP accredited program). Social work does not solely focus and has other paths within their programs.

 

[R. Matey]

Something that may be worth researching is the difference in philosophy between clinical mental health counselors (operating from a wellness model) and psychologists (operating from a medical model) and what they do.

This is a false distinction. Many LPCs work in medical settings and bill insurance, so they are part of the medical model. The "wellness model" refers to humanistic theory, which in practice, amounts to training in supportive listening and minimal training in evidenced based practices. Further, many psychologists are involved in wellness activities outside out providing psychotherapy.

 

[summerbabe]

This is a false distinction. Many LPCs work in medical settings and bill insurance, so they are part of the medical model.

I'll second that. My MS program (which provided LPC eligible licensing) trained us in time-limited and empirically supported therapies (primarily CBT) so these are program-based theoretical differences, rather than the field as a whole.

 

[chicandtoughness]

And, I'm a bit bias, but if you want to do talk therapy/psychotherapy, MA/MS programs in counseling focus purely on training to provide therapy (if you go this route, make sure to go to a CACREP accredited program). Social work does not solely focus and has other paths within their programs.

Two things here:
1. CACREP does not matter as much as people make it out to. There are plenty of REALLY good programs out there (e.g. Boston College) that are not CACREP accredited because their faculty didn't want to suck up to a corrupt organization. Yes, this is the hill I will die on.
2. Social work, while more broad in its training, is a great license to have and will actually open up more doors than a masters in counseling. I'm still kicking myself every day for not doing social work.

Also, in reference to the "wellness model" vs. the "medical model", this is exactly the kind of crap that CACREP/ACA spews. I heard it during my Orientation to Counseling class my first semester (at both CACREP programs I attended): "counseling is distinctly different from psychology, we look at the whole person and we care about holistic wellness yadayada." It's a marketing gimmick. Please don't buy into this. Counselors can deal with severe psychopathology and psychologists endorse preventative therapy. It's not a dichotomy. If you're a counselor still buying into this false "them vs. us" mentality that ACA has been trying to push for the past decade, please stop. It's hurting the mental health profession as a whole.

 

[manwelio]

Two things here:
1. CACREP does not matter as much as people make it out to. There are plenty of REALLY good programs out there (e.g. Boston College) that are not CACREP accredited because their faculty didn't want to suck up to a corrupt organization. Yes, this is the hill I will die on.
2. Social work, while more broad in its training, is a great license to have and will actually open up more doors than a masters in counseling. I'm still kicking myself every day for not doing social work.

Also, in reference to the "wellness model" vs. the "medical model", this is exactly the kind of crap that CACREP/ACA spews. I heard it during my Orientation to Counseling class my first semester (at both CACREP programs I attended): "counseling is distinctly different from psychology, we look at the whole person and we care about holistic wellness yadayada." It's a marketing gimmick. Please don't buy into this. Counselors can deal with severe psychopathology and psychologists endorse preventative therapy. It's not a dichotomy. If you're a counselor still buying into this false "them vs. us" mentality that ACA has been trying to push for the past decade, please stop. It's hurting the mental health profession as a whole.

Would you mind outlining a few major benefits of an MSW as a better license? I've seen this said in a few forums but haven't found their reasoning that explains why they feel that way. Where do you see the distinctions?

 

[chicandtoughness]

Would you mind outlining a few major benefits of an MSW as a better license? I've seen this said in a few forums but haven't found their reasoning that explains why they feel that way. Where do you see the distinctions?

Sure. (MSW is the degree, LCSW is the independent license. Some states use LICSW instead.)

1. License portability between states. The requirements for LCSWs are a lot more consistent between states, so you will run into less problems moving a license. Not so with LPCs/LMHCs.
2. They can bill Medicare/Medicaid, and therefore are the de facto license if you want to work at an institution that serves those populations (e.g. state funded hospitals).
3. In some states (looking at you New York), LCSWs are historically the license of choice. Like hires like... an LCSW is more likely to hire another LCSW than an LMHC, all other things being equal. (And in NY you have the "LMHCs can't diagnose" issue, soo...)
4. If you want to work at higher levels of care (e.g. academic teaching hospitals, inpatient psych), LCSWs are the preference. Yes, LPCs/LMHCs and LMFTs can work there, but LCSWs are the preference, largely because so much of "therapy" at that level requires intensive case management as well.
5. Everyone needs to learn how to do case management, and 95% of the time counseling programs have a "stick my nose up" attitude towards case management. Social work will teach you how to do case management in addition to therapy, assuming you go to a clinical-track MSW.
6. If you want to work at a university counseling center, the preference is, in order: PhD > PsyD > LCSW > LPC/LMFT.

Some of these are highly specific to my unique career needs, of course.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Hmm interesting, thank you for this response. So are you saying people typically go straight for a doctorate in order to be a psychologist?
I'm not sure if I could get into a PhD program. I've got around 1-2 years of psych experience/research, but that's not a whole lot. I always have a 3.36 undergrad GPA.

Also I'm just not sure if I want to commit 6-7 years for a phD at the moment with my biological clock ticking.

I went the masters first route, coming out of a very small college with extremely limited research experience and clinical exposure. Was it the most financially prudent decision? No (well, I got uniquely lucky, but you can't count on that) and it can be hard working part time through school, which I did (and still ended up with small loans for living expenses). It is true that the process of getting licensed at the master's level in a counseling program is difficult (some of my cohort got nicely paying jobs in research related fields though). Ultimately I took 2 more years working at a not-well-paying job (that was in the field and that is still my favorite job ever) before a PhD program. It did result in our delaying kids until mid-30s; even though a few of my colleagues managed both, I don't think I would have been able to and it would have resulted in needing to take on additional loans rather than get my existing ones paid off before graduation from PhD. So- was master's first the right move for me? absolutely- because I think I lacked research experience and, very importantly, clinical and research experiences/exposure and maturity to figure out my preferred areas of interest- and that strongly informed where I applied for PhD. it also gave me access to folks who could help me with the application process and kind of understood that process far more than my undergrad advisors for various reasons. And yet - the caveats about masters/licensing (when choosing a masters program if you go that route) are extremely relevant, and that will def come with financial costs (actual cost and opportunity cost) as well as delaying kids if you don't feel like you could manage both are reason to proceed thoughtfully.

In your position I would probably apply to both PhD and master's programs. See how you land. If no PhD options, find a research-heavy masters or work in a reputable lab for a couple of years and try again. There will probably never be the "perfect" time to have kids and even if so, doesn't mean that's the way it will work out, so personally I'd be cautious factoring that in too much and put that on the "figure it out on the way" list, but that's just me.