GPA Calculations and (Physics) Classes Query

[YeOldeMan]

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Hello all,

Just have a few questions. After HS, I was not so sure whether or not I was ready for Univ., so I went to a local (SACS accredited) CC. Made a 4.0 there for one year (where I took Chem 1**, Chem 2**, Calc 1, Calc 2) and then transferred to the state flagship (Research-1) University (US News top 50). Here I'm (at the moment) making a 3.7 (cause of the lame plus/minus system that breaks A's down into "A-"), and am finishing up Calc 3 along with a few upper level STAT courses. My GPA will go up now that my "weed out" classes are done, particularly orgo.

When medicals schools look at my GPA, will they consider the GPA reported only by my degree-granting university, or will they also look at my CC grades (9 classes worth)? If I wanted to take some classes at the CC again (core requirements like history, constitution, philosophy, spanish, etc...to avoid the 300 person classes), would that be okay (assuming all sciences and quantitative subjects at taken at the Univ.)?

On another note, my Physics classes are coming up. Most students here will take non-Calc based Physics, and instead take algebra and trig based physics. Adv. Physics 1 uses derivatives, which are easy, but Adv. Physics 2 uses integral applications (Calc 2), which are very scary 😱. I'm in the honors program, and I have to fulfill an "honors classes" quota, for which both calc-based physics fulfill (Im behind on those since I transferred). However, I am not sure if this will be much more difficult. If I know calc well, will calc-based physics be any harder than trig-based physics? If they were both derivatives-based, I would take them with no qualms. But integral applications are scary indeed. Does anyone here have any input?

I appreciate your feedback!



_____
**Took the American Chemistry Society standardized test and made an 85 (passing/national average is a 50) - so there is no doubt I know the inorganic CHEM.

 

[redlight]

all courses taken at a 2 or 4 years university will be counted in your gpa..

calc based physics is no biggie on average (at least in terms of difficulty of the calculus parts). there really isn't much other than derivatives and simple integrals in physics I.. but physics II can incorporate some calc II i think

 

[135892]

Physics-content wise, there is absolutely no difference between the calc and algebra based versions. And in the calc-based version, you really don't use that much calculus, and I would say that if you know the basic differentiation and integration you could succeed in the "real" physics class. But again, it doesn't matter at all, to anyone, which one you take.

I would be more wary of taking some sort of honors version of the class though. At my school at least, the honors class tends to be for physics majors, and goes into more physical and mathmatical depth. Depending on how much you like, and are good at, physics, this may or may not be the option for you.

 

[Dannyw]

If you understand calculus it will be easy. Most of the kids at my school take calc I and phys I at the same time so it is tough and most get C's. If you already have a basis for the math it will definitely be a walk in the park.

I second what the poster above me said about the honors sections. It is going to be very tough. Also, I wouldn't say the content is the same either. In general physics it is much more conceptual based and with the calc-based course you are just solving problems. We did something like 26 chapters in general physics and the calc class did maybe half of that.

 

[YeOldeMan]

Ok cool! Yeah, I definitely get the math really well - although multivariable has pushed out some of the basic concepts of integration and differentiation...I should probably touch up on those.

Now, if I went back to take some (subjective-qualitative) University required courses at the CC (such as history, constitution, sociology, philosophy, spanish, econ, etc.), would that look bad? Would they even care about that, or do they mostly look at the BCMP. By the way, do statistics classes count towards BCMP GPA (I have taken many upper level ones - honors - 4.0 in all of them)? Those could really boost my GPA. And, since pre-meds do not have to take past Calc I, will they count Calc II and Calc III in my GPA?

I think I was not clear about the honors credit for physics. Most science majors require physics; however, almost none require calculus based physics. There is no "honors physics" (meaning, no class with the "Honors" suffix, i.e. "Biology Honors" "Microeconomics Honors" etc.), but those who take calc-based physics (since non-calc based physics suffices) get rewarded by receiving honors credit.
On that note, do any medical schools require calc-based physics? For some reason, I was under the impression that all of them do, yet now when I Google it, I cannot find any (except for Harvard). Even if they don't, I am inclined to take it anyways; I'm just curious whether they do require it.

Well, glad to hear calc-based phys is not going to be a crusher. When I glanced over the grade distributions, it looked like the calc-based ones got slightly higher grades than the non-calc based ones. And they have smaller classes. In addition, I get the bragging rights of taking "Real Physics."

Cheers Everyone!

 

[YeOldeMan]

Will it be okay if I went and took unimportant courses at a CC (history, constitution, sociology, philosophy, spanish, econ, etc.)? Will it look bad, or will they just not care?

Do many medical schools require Calculus-based physics?

Are research classes counted towards BCMP GPA? (I.e. pretty much just a class where you get with a prof. in his lab and do research, and he gives you a grade at the end; but you dont have to show up regularly or anything); just sit on your...hands and do grunt work for him. It still shows up on your transcript as BIOL 4099 or something.

I looked over the AMCAS guidelines for BCMP GPA, and I just want to make sure that I understood them right. Stat courses are counted in BCMP GPA, correct? And so are Genetics? Pretty much anything that is under the Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics heading (which is camoflagued- lol) is considered BCMP GPA.



Sorry, I'm just the usual paranoid undergrad.

Thanks!

 

[drizzt3117]

Will it be okay if I went and took unimportant courses at a CC (history, constitution, sociology, philosophy, spanish, econ, etc.)? Will it look bad, or will they just not care?

They won't really care.

Do many medical schools require Calculus-based physics?

No, I'm not really sure there's that much difference in difficulty anyways though.

Are research classes counted towards BCMP GPA? (I.e. pretty much just a class where you get with a prof. in his lab and do research, and he gives you a grade at the end; but you dont have to show up regularly or anything); just sit on your...hands and do grunt work for him. It still shows up on your transcript as BIOL 4099 or something.

Yes.

I looked over the AMCAS guidelines for BCMP GPA, and I just want to make sure that I understood them right. Stat courses are counted in BCMP GPA, correct? And so are Genetics? Pretty much anything that is under the Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics heading (which is camoflagued- lol) is considered BCMP GPA.

Depends. Any class that has a heading of biology, chemistry, physics, or math, counts as BCPM, any that doesn't, does not, most likely.

 

[YeOldeMan]

Depends. Any class that has a heading of biology, chemistry, physics, or math, counts as BCPM, any that doesn't, does not, most likely.

Hey man, thanks for the answer. Your answer seems to affirm my inference, except for the "Depends." What does the "Depends" mean?

Thanks!

 

[drizzt3117]

Hey man, thanks for the answer. Your answer seems to affirm my inference, except for the "Depends." What does the "Depends" mean?

Thanks!

I said depends because if your stat course doesn't have one of those headings, then it doesn't count as BCPM, but if it does, then it does. Genetics is most likely going to be a biology course, so it should count, unless it's something like history of genetics.

 

[YeOldeMan]

arrrghhhh...now you got me worried. The Genetics seems straight; it's all "real" Genetics, not history of Genetics, Genetics literature, or anything like that.

But the stat worries me. All the classes are like STAT4008, STATXXXX, etc. and they all have titles like Stochastic processes, Mathematical Statistics, Statistics and Computing, Bioinformatics Statistics, Applied Statistics, SAS Statistical Programing, Probability Theory, etc. What kind of STAT course would not likely count?

As you can probably guess now, I'm getting a second major in STAT.

Maybe I am just too paranoid, or need more sleep, or both.

Thanks!

 

[YeOldeMan]

OK - for any future reference, I emailed AMCAS and they said just about all STAT courses are counted, and that any exceptions will be obvious.

Back to Physics, do medical schools require one semester, or two semesters (two classes) of physics? Some places say they require "one year of physics," and others are not that clear.

 

[GoSpursGo]

One year= 2 semesters (or 4 quarters, for those on that schedule).

 

[drizzt3117]

One year= 2 semesters (or 4 quarters, for those on that schedule).

spurs, I this a year = 3 quarters normally in the context of most quarter system schools.

Ye Old Man,

According to AMCAS, http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2009instructionmanual072808.pdf

those stats classes that are in the department of math are BCPM. In MY experience, the ones that did not weren't counted as BCPM. A lot of things you think WOULD count as BCPM do not. I was an engineering major and alot of my major courses weren't counted as BCPM.

 

[GoSpursGo]

spurs, I this a year = 3 quarters normally in the context of most quarter system schools.

Whoops... guess who doesn't go to a quarter-system school 😳

In any case, my point was that they put "one year" instead of "two semesters" on their requirements because some schools aren't on the semester system. It sounds like the OP goes to a semester-school, so it's kind of irrelevant; for all intents and purposes, OP, 1 year=2 semesters for you.

 

[YeOldeMan]

Ye Old Man,

According to AMCAS, http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2009instructionmanual072808.pdf

those stats classes that are in the department of math are BCPM. In MY experience, the ones that did not weren't counted as BCPM. A lot of things you think WOULD count as BCPM do not. I was an engineering major and alot of my major courses weren't counted as BCPM.

whoa, whoa, whoa man. There are no Statistics classes in the Department of Math. They are definitely two different departments. This is a common misconception. Math and Stat are two different divisions, and it is like that in all schools - including community colleges. The Math Dept. does not offer Stats courses, or even close, since the Stats department would be all over them for trampling on their territory. Which stats courses did they not consider for you?

I believe that they consider the Dept. of Stats classes under the "M" in "BCMP." BCMP is not limited to the Departments of Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, and Physics - they just chose the most general subjects. It makes a nice short acronym..."BCMP GPA". Otherwise it would have to be something like "ABCGHIMNPMCB...BCMCCB...MAS... GPA" in order to encompass all of those subjecs. Genetics courses are not offered in the Dept. of Biology, but in the Dept. of Genetics. I don't see STAT in any of the non-BCMP lists. Ecology courses are not offered in the Dept. of Biology, but in the Dept. of Ecology. Does this sound right, or am I totally clueless?

I see that on AMCAS it says that Engineering classes are not considered BCMP, but are put into a group called ENGI (that doesn't make sense, I have taken engineering classes - and they are definitely harder and more "scientific" than any other classes on that BCMP list, except for maybe phys and atro).

Damn, this has got me all paranoid again.

 

[drizzt3117]

whoa, whoa, whoa man. There are no Statistics classes in the Department of Math. They are definitely two different departments. This is a common misconception. Math and Stat are two different divisions, and it is like that in all schools - including community colleges. The Math Dept. does not offer Stats courses, or even close, since the Stats department would be all over them for trampling on their territory. Which stats courses did they not consider for you?

I believe that they consider the Dept. of Stats classes under the "M" in "BCMP." BCMP is not limited to the Departments of Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, and Physics - they just chose the most general subjects. It makes a nice short acronym..."BCMP GPA". Otherwise it would have to be something like "ABCGHIMNPMCB...BCMCCB...MAS... GPA" in order to encompass all of those subjecs. Genetics courses are not offered in the Dept. of Biology, but in the Dept. of Genetics. I don't see STAT in any of the non-BCMP lists. Ecology courses are not offered in the Dept. of Biology, but in the Dept. of Ecology. Does this sound right, or am I totally clueless?

I see that on AMCAS it says that Engineering classes are not considered BCMP, but are put into a group called ENGI (that doesn't make sense, I have taken engineering classes - and they are definitely harder and more "scientific" than any other classes on that BCMP list, except for maybe phys and atro).

Damn, this has got me all paranoid again.

The genetics classes I took were in the department of biology. The stats class I took that was excluded was just called "statistics" However, biostats classes typically are included. For the most part, BCPM classes ARE simply things from those departments, in my experience. In any case, AMCAS will calculate a BCPM GPA for you. For me, at least, all of the classes that were in bio, chem, math, and physics were BCPM, and those that weren't, weren't calculated with my BCPM. Your mileage may vary. I know you can petition to have things changed if they don't calculate it to your satisfaction but this takes time.

 

[YeOldeMan]

OK; here is my correspondence with AMCAS.

I
just want to make sure that my Statistics courses will count in my BCMP GPA.
According to my adviser, there is some discrepancy with Statistics courses
and BCMP GPA. Do Statistics courses count for BCMP GPA? They are not given
in the Department of Mathematics (therefore I am not sure whether they fall
under the "M" in "BCMP" classes listed in the AMCAS guielines
pdf<http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2009instructionmanual072808.pdf>),
but they are given in the Department of Statistics. They have titles like
Introductory Statistics, Applied Stochastic Methods, SAS Statistical
Programming, Applied Statistics, Applied Regression Analysis, Statistical
Quality Assurance, Experimental Designs, etc. I figure that the "M" should
encompass Statistics (since Statistics is under the Mathematics
heading here<http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2009instructionmanual072808.pdf>),
but I have heard from some people that this may not be the case. How does
this work?

And their response:

Dear Applicant,

Thank you for contacting AMCAS.

Each course must be assigned a course classification based entirely on the primary content of the course. However, AMCAS reserves the right to change Course Classifications if the assigned Course Classification clearly does not apply. AMCAS is not responsible for any processing delays or incorrect GPA calculations resulting from incorrect Course Classifications. You will notice in the Instruction Manual that Statistics courses are generally considered Mathematics.

If you have any questions or if we can be of additional assistance, please contact us at [email protected] or (202) 828-0600.

AMCAS Association of American Medical Colleges

So I replied....

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I have read the instruction manual, and I saw that Statistics was listed under the heading of mathematics. However, the heading "Mathematics" has the course prefix (MATH) which implies that Statistics courses will only be counted if they have a MATH prefix. None of the Statistics courses at my University have a MATH prefix, rather they have a STAT prefix. So, an Applied Stochastic Methods class would not be called MATH3000, but STAT3000. This is the same with all other Statistics courses; they all have a STAT prefix, but not a MATH prefix. This, my adviser told me, may cause Statistics courses not to be counted in BCMP GPA.

Can you please elaborate on this for me? How does it usually work? Can you give any guarantees? If I sent you a list of the classes I have taken, would you be able to say whether all or some will count? Will you count (as BCMP) the Statistics courses that are with a STAT prefix (not with a MATH prefix), and in the Dept. of Statistics (not in the Dept. of Mathematics)?

On that same note, my Genetics classes were in the Dept. of Genetics, and not in the Dept. of Biology. Will they be counted in BCMP?

And they replied:

Dear Applicant,

Thank you for contacting AMCAS.

Each course must be assigned a course classification based entirely on the primary content of the course. However, AMCAS reserves the right to change Course Classifications if the assigned Course Classification clearly does not apply. AMCAS is not responsible for any processing delays or incorrect GPA calculations resulting from incorrect Course Classifications. You will notice in the Instruction Manual that Statistics courses are generally considered Mathematics.

If you have any questions or if we can be of additional assistance, please contact us at [email protected] or (202) 828-0600.

AMCAS Association of American Medical Colleges

It seems to me that they are generally ambiguous, and avoid any direct points. In addition they copy and paste stuff for me (like I didn't read it the first time).

Anyways, it looks like Statistics courses do count, even if they are not in the Dept. of Mathematics.

What do you people think of this? What else should I ask (or how should I word it) so that they give me a serious answer, and not some unclear and unspecific answer?

 

[YeOldeMan]

Also....do "seminar" classes count? I have taken a few classes like "Intro to Biology," or "Intro to Chemistry" where you meet for about 1 hour weekly and have discussions, etc. Pretty much seminars, readings, and discussions.