Grad students: Do/would you drink with your faculty?

[futureapppsy2]

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Why or why not? I was thinking about this recently, as people were talking about if they would or wouldn't drink with their advisors or other faculty (at conferences, but I'm curious in general).

 

[psychrat]

I would have a cocktail if out to dinner with the lab and my mentor or maybe a glass of wine at a gathering, but probably not more than two drinks, but I have stricter boundaries than some 🙂

 

[Pragma]

Yeah, very common, just don't get drunk or too loose-lipped.

 

[WisNeuro]

I did. Lab parties, conferences. I'll have a beer or two with my postdocs here and there as well. Group settings though.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I did. Lab parties, conferences. I'll have a beer or two with my postdocs here and there as well. Group settings though.

Just curious--what kind of parties were these lab parties? I've heard of everything from "sitting around awkwardly with a plate of food" to "come to my house and I'll make you dinner and margaritas" to "everyone doing shots and dancing."

 

[WisNeuro]

Our lab was a little strange, we loved to play charades. Generally good times.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

I worked in a department of neuropsychology during my master's and we would all get together for holidays at one of the neuropsychologist's house. Some of the other students and psychometrists in the office would get "interesting." I remember one time we all went out to a Mexican place to celebrate one of the Ph.D. student's successful dissertation defense, the psychometrist there who trained me got really really drunk on sangria and would flirt it up with my husband, mind you, it was a woman who did this. 😛 Personally, I would, I am a big guy, so I know I could kick back at least 3 beers within a 1 hour time frame and be fine.

 

[Chalupacabra]

My master's program had a big yearly party catered by the head of the program at their house each fall. We also ended up going out for a big end of the year celebration most years with at least one faculty member, typically after our last class of the semester at a bar within walking distance of the university. As others had said, no one went too crazy, but it was not uncommon to have a couple of drinks socially.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah, very common, just don't get drunk or too loose-lipped.

This.

Conferences can be eye opening, though I typically stick to 1 scotch and then sit back and people watch.

 

[Pragma]

This.

Conferences can be eye opening, though I typically stick to 1 scotch and then sit back and people watch.

At least have 2! Unless you meant the one scotch was your "eye-opener" 😀

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It was fairly commonplace at my program, although certainly not a weekly or even monthly thing. We would have departmental holiday parties a couple times/year, the occasional post-supervision or post-lab meeting happy hour, and the occasional get together (usually involving food) at my advisor's house.

 

[UnknownPsych]

Yeah, we would have end of year lab parties at faculty mentor's house with margaritas and sangria. We also had a yearly football tailgate event where students and faculty would mingle and drink together. At conferences I tended to hang out with other students afterwards. That was about the extent of drinking/socializing between students and faculty though.

 

[Ollie123]

My advisor bought myself and a labmate a beer when he ran into us at the Clapton concert my first semester of grad school.

I even drank with faculty as an undergrad (after age 21). Maybe I've just had good luck with regards to the folks I've been affiliated with, but its always been quite normal for faculty to have a "holiday party" for the lab at their home where alcohol is served, invite folks out for the occasional happy hour to celebrate something, get a group together to go out for dinner/drinks at conferences, etc. Department functions have often had alcohol at them. Heck, my internship occasionally provided wine during our late afternoon seminars. Obviously this is all very different from going clubbing til 3AM with just you and a faculty member, but it all seems well within the bounds of normal professional social activities in psychology or any other field.

 

[MCParent]

...but it all seems well within the bounds of normal professional social activities in psychology or any other field.

I agree. No one on here posted it (though I assume it was the impetus for the thread), but there's a lot of weird reactions to this kind of thing in our field. It always seemed to me like overgeneralizing from client work.
Just do the normal professional behavior (pull the drink for a long time, obviously don't get drunk, etc.).

 

[smalltownpsych]

I personally don't drink alcohol, but have always enjoyed the social occasions throughout my training. Except for the first party I went to in the doctoral program that was thrown by a classmate who was a bit immature and it felt a bit too much like a frat party. One of the best occasions was a birthday party for a classmate that was at a combo ice skating/roller skating place. We had a lot of fun that evening.

When I was doing a practicum at a VA the training director had a xmas party for all the psychology people and there was alcohol served. The only inappropriate moment was when a psychologist made a little kid cry during the white elephant gift exchange. She wanted the kids gift, so she took it from him. I am pretty sure that she wasn't drinking either, she was just a mean-a$$ woman. Me and my wife still laugh about that one.

 

[deleted343839]

Why or why not? I was thinking about this recently, as people were talking about if they would or wouldn't drink with their advisors or other faculty (at conferences, but I'm curious in general).

In my program you were an outlier if you didn't drink with the faculty. We had several program-wide social events each year, and as far as I can recall there was always beer, wine, and the occasional margarita machine. For a while my lab had its own monthly happy hour (attended by our faculty member). Of course, it was an unspoken expectation that everyone should drink in moderation, or at least be inconspicuous. At conferences, I've seen a much wider range of behavior, to put it politely.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

From the faculty/staff point of view…we have a few semi-annual occasions used for socializing and having some drinks (e.g. holiday party, happy hour w. new fellows, etc), though most/all functions are pretty tame and don't run late into the night. For the holiday party we have grad students/research assistants present, though they tend to huddle together in a pack off to the side.

 

[Nahsil]

We have an annual/bi-annual party at one of the prof's houses, and there's usually a "boat full of beer." I wouldn't say anybody gets truly toasted, but I definitely had a few. I also go to a humanistic university, so getting drunk with these people would probably be pretty tame 😛

 

[Pragma]

humanistic university

Is there such a thing anymore?

 

[WisNeuro]

Is there such a thing anymore?

Was there ever such a thing?

 

[smalltownpsych]

We have an annual/bi-annual party at one of the prof's houses, and there's usually a "boat full of beer." I wouldn't say anybody gets truly toasted, but I definitely had a few. I also go to a humanistic university, so getting drunk with these people would probably be pretty tame 😛

Catholic universities, that's where the heavy drinking occurs. I went to one my first year of undergrad and ended up with a 2.0 average that year mainly because of the free-flowing beer.

 

[Pragma]

Was there ever such a thing?

You got me!

 

[Chalupacabra]

Catholic universities, that's where the heavy drinking occurs. I went to one my first year of undergrad and ended up with a 2.0 average that year mainly because of the free-flowing beer.

I always thought Catholics were more in to wine.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I always thought Catholics were more in to wine.

That was only when we were altar boys and stole it from the back room of the church.

 

[Nahsil]

Is there such a thing anymore?

sorry, I meant to say humanistic program.

 

[Member1928]

I was always the one in grad school who got a bit tipsy at department gatherings. My cohort was a bit of a party cohort and things worked out okay for us. It's who we are and choose to be. I'll throw back some brews, shots, or cocktails with my family, friends, and coworkers. I don't drink and drive (anymore); I show up to work sober and ready to kick ass. I'm still a work hard play hard kinda person that lives by the whole "all things in moderation, including excess." Things have slowed down a bit in recent years, but I think it's fine to drink with faculty if that's what you are comfortable doing.

 

[PBCocce]

I was always the one in grad school who got a bit tipsy at department gatherings. My cohort was a bit of a party cohort and things worked out okay for us. It's who we are and choose to be. I'll throw back some brews, shots, or cocktails with my family, friends, and coworkers. I don't drink and drive (anymore); I show up to work sober and ready to kick ass. I'm still a work hard play hard kinda person that lives by the whole "all things in moderation, including excess." Things have slowed down a bit in recent years, but I think it's fine to drink with faculty if that's what you are comfortable doing.

I worry too much about impressions, so I limit myself to 1 drink max, to be social.

I agree that you can be who you want to be... but these are also people who write your reference letters! I'd be too afraid.

 

[Throwawayaccount67]

One of our research teams has a happy hour once a month, where they drink, even do shots with their mentor. They research problematic alcohol use in college students.

 

[syzergy]

Sure. I play on the department softball team with some faculty and we frequently hit the bars after games.

 

[Pragma]

Doing shots with faculty just seems really overboard, especially for the faculty member. What is "social" or "moderate" consumption when it comes to shots? Having a couple of drinks is totally different.

 

[MCParent]

I think it is very inadvisable to "get tipsy," especially repeatedly, at department functions.

I agree that doing shots with faculty is too much. I've never known a purpose of shots other than to get drunk rapidly (or avoid carbs from mixers, I guess).

 

[smalltownpsych]

One of our research teams has a happy hour once a month, where they drink, even do shots with their mentor. They research problematic alcohol use in college students.

How do you get IRB approval for this kind of study where the researchers are the participants? It could be a good research question though. How does problematic ETOH use affect the productivity of grad students?
Here's a little visual representation of what it might look like.
😡

 

[FLpsychstudent]

I feel cray cray now after reading all these responses, I've been drunk in front of my mentor and other faculty members and that is totally normal here! As long as you don't make a scene but being drunk and silly is okay. I think our lab/program are mildly inappropriate but I love it 😛 It also depends on the setting, like if you were hammered at your poster session or something that isn't kosher but the xmas party...okay...lol.

 

[MCParent]

I've been drunk in front of my mentor and other faculty members and that is totally normal here! [...] I think our lab/program are mildly inappropriate but I love it 😛 It also depends on the setting, like if you were hammered at your poster session or something that isn't kosher but the xmas party...okay...lol.

This sounds like trouble (and maybe a lawsuit) waiting to happen.

I seriously doubt that everyone in the lab/program is actually completely comfortable with that kind of thing.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, it only takes one dissatisfied party and a litigator, and that situation becomes a cluster**** for all involved.

 

[erg923]

I feel cray cray now after reading all these responses, I've been drunk in front of my mentor and other faculty members and that is totally normal here! As long as you don't make a scene but being drunk and silly is okay. I think our lab/program are mildly inappropriate but I love it 😛 It also depends on the setting, like if you were hammered at your poster session or something that isn't kosher but the xmas party...okay...lol.

Do you think this is professional behavior? I'm referring to both participating parties here...btw.

I'm surprised by this thread actually. While this isn't the military, extensive fraternization with ones supervisors (essentially) simply was not done where I came from. And for very good (clinical and educational) reasons .

 

[Moose A Moose]

Yes, I did.

Yes, it was spectacular.

 

[Nahsil]

A lawsuit? Really? For getting drunk at a party? I mean, if you're the kind of drinker who gets a slight buzz and then starts dancing bottomless on the countertop, maybe.

 

[WisNeuro]

A lawsuit? Really? For getting drunk at a party? I mean, if you're the kind of drinker who gets a slight buzz and then starts dancing bottomless on the countertop, maybe.

More complicated than that. One possible consequence has to do with the relatively rare occurrence when a student has to be removed from a program due to a variety of reasons. When there is a blurring of professional and personal lines like this with faculty who have supervisory/evaluative status, they open themselves up to a lot of messy stuff.

 

[Nahsil]

That's fair.

 

[MCParent]

A lawsuit? Really? For getting drunk at a party? I mean, if you're the kind of drinker who gets a slight buzz and then starts dancing bottomless on the countertop, maybe.

For someone getting inebriated and sexually harassing someone else. Or any number of other inappropriate actions.

 

[futureapppsy2]

How do you get IRB approval for this kind of study where the researchers are the participants? It could be a good research question though. How does problematic ETOH use affect the productivity of grad students?
Here's a little visual representation of what it might look like.
😡

I actually knew someone who was a grad student in a lab that studied the effects of alcohol on performance, and every few months, the grad students had to get drunk gradually to test the calibration on the BAC monitors (not joking). They made sure they were completely sober before letting them go home, though.

Also, I find it kind of hilarious that this thread went from "pshaw, of course you should drink with faculty! That's so prudish if you don't!" to "never do shots with faculty--that's so inappropriate!

 

[WisNeuro]

True, attitudes differ on how much is acceptable. If I were an academic faculty, personally I would err on the conservative side. Seen a couple incidents over the years where people left themselves open a little in the boundaries domain and it's ended up putting them in a sticky situation. As someone who works with a secondary gain/higher rate of suicide/very publicly vocal population, I'm very good about the CYA procedures 🙂

 

[AcronymAllergy]

More complicated than that. One possible consequence has to do with the relatively rare occurrence when a student has to be removed from a program due to a variety of reasons. When there is a blurring of professional and personal lines like this with faculty who have supervisory/evaluative status, they open themselves up to a lot of messy stuff.

Yep. One could also attempt to make the argument that they felt compelled to drink for perceived fear of some kind of retribution, and/or that those who drank were afforded benefits of some kind.

As I mentioned above, some supervisors from my program drank while around students and some did not. There were never any standing/recurring events, though, and I can't ever recall a time when shots were taken. Once or twice students got a bit too tipsy, although some of that involved having been drinking before showing up (e.g., to holiday parties); after an instance or two of this, things wound down quite a bit.

Personally, I don't see it as a problem (in moderation), although I can certainly understand why some supervisors might decide against it.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I actually knew someone who was a grad student in a lab that studied the effects of alcohol on performance, and every few months, the grad students had to get drunk gradually to test the calibration on the BAC monitors (not joking). They made sure they were completely sober before letting them go home, though.

Also, I find it kind of hilarious that this thread went from "pshaw, of course you should drink with faculty! That's so prudish if you don't!" to "never do shots with faculty--that's so inappropriate!

As a non-drinker if I had felt pressured to drink with faculty or supervisors that would have bothered me. It never happened in my program, I think there were only a couple of occasions where alcohol was served and nobody got drunk or applied pressure. Pretty mature and responsible behavior. If they had been doing shots and getting intoxicated, then I would just leave as I don't feel comfortable around people when they begin having impaired judgement. They tend to become obnoxious. If I saw this occurring as a pattern, I would think that it was a problem and imagine it would lead to legal issues down the road as others said. Not much different from my patients who drink too much and too often,money end up with problems too.

 

[cara susanna]

It's super normal in my program. I actually got made fun of at a department party for not drinking enough.

 

[MCParent]

It's super normal in my program. I actually got made fun of at a department party for not drinking enough.

Which is *exactly* where the trouble starts, when they do this and the person they do it to is a recovering alcoholic. Ugh.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Or if the person is uncomfortable around intoxicated people because they were a victim in some way. Or if they have religious objections to alcohol use. Or health reasons. Not a good idea for anyone in a position of authority to pressure a subordinate to drink.

 

[Spydra]

This is quite an interesting thread and something I've pondered off and on as I'm putting together my doctoral applications. I didn't realize some programs have such strong social components and given how much time is spent together in classes, in research labs, and at internship sites I figured everyone would be sick of looking at each other and itching to socialize elsewhere. In my master's program there were no faculty and student social events, with or without alcohol, because it was considered unprofessional and could open too many cans of worms. There were a few student only social events such as bowling or movies, but nothing alcohol focused. I didn't attend those not because of the lack of alcohol, but more because I wasn't interested in socializing with my classmates.

Since graduating I've been volunteering at a local Universities research institute and the attitude is very different there even though the staff are a combination of faculty and post docs supervising undergrad and grad interns. I was surprised to learn that everyone socializes regularly together, with alcohol being the focal point. I was more surprised that most of the grad interns regularly socialize with their current professors and it is not uncommon for grad student and professor pub crawls to be established. I can't see myself doing something like that as it just blurs too many professional boundaries, but to each their own. With the research institute my role is different since I'm already finished with my degree, so I treated the social events as I would in any other work setting. I showed up and made polite conversation, made sure the top brass saw me, sipped half a drink (largely so people would quit offering to get me one), and left early.

In a doctoral program I'll stick with not drinking with faculty, but again to each their own. Not sure I'll socialize with my classmates, but if I did I'm more likely to stick with little to no alcohol. I wouldn't want to reach out to one of them for a job reference later and have them flashback to one of my alcohol induced moments of stupidity.

 

[Koogy]

Drink with your faculty? Are you insane ? H*** no! It takes one poorly stated word or spoken judgement under intoxication and there goes your recommendation letter for that practicum or internship site you so wanted. Drink with your buddies ( I wouldn't even drink w my cohort) and keep your business circles of professionals seperate from personal life. Your future paycheck and reputation is on the line. Why risk it? Even a half beer isn't worth it to me. Once you are in the field then you can loser up. Till you launch, don't do anything stupid like drink in professional company. Those are my two cents.