Grad students: Do/would you drink with your faculty?

[AcronymAllergy]

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Drink with your faculty? Are you insane ? H*** no! It takes one poorly stated word or spoken judgement under intoxication and there goes your recommendation letter for that practicum or internship site you so wanted. Drink with your buddies ( I wouldn't even drink w my cohort) and keep your business circles of professionals seperate from personal life. Your future paycheck and reputation is on the line. Why risk it? Even a half beer isn't worth it to me. Once you are in the field then you can loser up. Till you launch, don't do anything stupid like drink in professional company. Those are my two cents.

I'd say it really does depend on the atmosphere of the program. Drinking to excess is just a bad idea in general, but even at professional conferences, I'll frequently see faculty members and students drinking together at formal events. It's almost always limited to 1 or 2 drinks, hence the avoidance of "excess" and inappropriate behaviors.

Same goes for drinking with cohort members. If you get along with those in your cohort, go for it. If you don't, or if you're worried that some of they may be "the kind of people" who might take something you say the wrong way, then avoid it. I personally spent a good bit of time socializing with a handful of program classmates and never ran into any problems. Same holds true for the handful of formal social events I attended with faculty. But that was the norm in our program, and not all programs are the same.

 

[Ollie123]

After reading this thread again, I'm really struggling to imagine an environment in which one wouldn't drink with faculty and continue to be surprised at the stance some are taking. Obviously, we're not talking about anyone doing keg stands but just going out to happy hour where everyone has a beer or glass of wine after a big grant gets funded? A glass of wine at a "lab dinner" at a conference? Heck, half the conferences I go to SERVE wine and beer during poster sessions. I've worked in 4-5 labs over my career and this was normative behavior in all of them. There was no pressure to drink (nor judgment of those who had two instead of one), but it was available for those who chose to partake. No one acts inappropriately (not that 1-2 drinks should cause that in anyone not already predisposed...). I've never even tried to draw a firm line with what is/is not acceptable because I think one can generally get by relying on context and common sense.

I'm once again feeling incredibly lucky about the environments I've trained in. I think I'd be miserable in any environment where I felt uncomfortable trying a local microbrew when out to dinner with colleagues at a conference in a new city.

 

[MCParent]

After reading this thread again, I'm really struggling to imagine an environment in which one wouldn't drink with faculty and continue to be surprised at the stance some are taking. Obviously, we're not talking about anyone doing keg stands but just going out to happy hour where everyone has a beer or glass of wine after a big grant gets funded? A glass of wine at a "lab dinner" at a conference? Heck, half the conferences I go to SERVE wine and beer during poster sessions. I've worked in 4-5 labs over my career and this was normative behavior in all of them. There was no pressure to drink (nor judgment of those who had two instead of one), but it was available for those who chose to partake. No one acts inappropriately (not that 1-2 drinks should cause that in anyone not already predisposed...). I've never even tried to draw a firm line with what is/is not acceptable because I think one can generally get by relying on context and common sense.

I'm once again feeling incredibly lucky about the environments I've trained in. I think I'd be miserable in any environment where I felt uncomfortable trying a local microbrew when out to dinner with colleagues at a conference in a new city.

I think the key difference is (a) people getting frequently intoxicated at dept functions (asking for trouble) or (b) environments where pressure to drink is exerted (also asking for trouble). I had drinks with my cohort or a drink at a conference dinner; that doesn't seem odd to me.

 

[smalltownpsych]

After reading this thread again, I'm really struggling to imagine an environment in which one wouldn't drink with faculty and continue to be surprised at the stance some are taking. Obviously, we're not talking about anyone doing keg stands but just going out to happy hour where everyone has a beer or glass of wine after a big grant gets funded? A glass of wine at a "lab dinner" at a conference? Heck, half the conferences I go to SERVE wine and beer during poster sessions. I've worked in 4-5 labs over my career and this was normative behavior in all of them. There was no pressure to drink (nor judgment of those who had two instead of one), but it was available for those who chose to partake. No one acts inappropriately (not that 1-2 drinks should cause that in anyone not already predisposed...). I've never even tried to draw a firm line with what is/is not acceptable because I think one can generally get by relying on context and common sense.

I'm once again feeling incredibly lucky about the environments I've trained in. I think I'd be miserable in any environment where I felt uncomfortable trying a local microbrew when out to dinner with colleagues at a conference in a new city.

Our cohort celebrated the end of every semester at the local bar/restaurant. I never saw anyone get intoxicated or inappropriate and didn't experience any pressure to drink. That doesn't mean that some programs or people don't get out of hand or apply undue pressure. If the environment is inappropriate - leave; if you personally can't or shouldn't use alcohol for whatever the reason - don't; if a peer or someone in authority pressures you - refer back to first two points.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, I think the issue was just where people draw the line. A drink or two at a function or end of the year party, all good as long as it's within your tolerance. Shots/kegstands/getting sloshed, definitely not fine. I've seen it get ugly once or twice. Within the program other students usually ushered the drunk away before they became an issue. Once on the dinner the night before interview day an applicant got smashed and hit on the female grad students incessantly and inappropriately. He was one of the top applicants on paper, but that torpedoed any chance he had of an offer.

Bottom line, drinking usually fine, just keep it professional and stop at 2. If it's just within the cohort or with other students, go nuts.

 

[Koogy]

To each their own. Many well said points from everyone. 👍 Context, Context, Context. So there is no one single answer, all I know for me, as formal as my program is, drinking (even at a post- conference gathering) is best left out.

 

[Justanothergrad]

This is quite an interesting thread and something I've pondered off and on as I'm putting together my doctoral applications. I didn't realize some programs have such strong social components and given how much time is spent together in classes, in research labs, and at internship sites I figured everyone would be sick of looking at each other and itching to socialize elsewhere. In my master's program there were no faculty and student social events, with or without alcohol, because it was considered unprofessional and could open too many cans of worms. There were a few student only social events such as bowling or movies, but nothing alcohol focused. I didn't attend those not because of the lack of alcohol, but more because I wasn't interested in socializing with my classmates.

Since graduating I've been volunteering at a local Universities research institute and the attitude is very different there even though the staff are a combination of faculty and post docs supervising undergrad and grad interns. I was surprised to learn that everyone socializes regularly together, with alcohol being the focal point. I was more surprised that most of the grad interns regularly socialize with their current professors and it is not uncommon for grad student and professor pub crawls to be established. I can't see myself doing something like that as it just blurs too many professional boundaries, but to each their own. With the research institute my role is different since I'm already finished with my degree, so I treated the social events as I would in any other work setting. I showed up and made polite conversation, made sure the top brass saw me, sipped half a drink (largely so people would quit offering to get me one), and left early.

In a doctoral program I'll stick with not drinking with faculty, but again to each their own. Not sure I'll socialize with my classmates, but if I did I'm more likely to stick with little to no alcohol. I wouldn't want to reach out to one of them for a job reference later and have them flashback to one of my alcohol induced moments of stupidity.

I understand your position, but I would encourage you to reconsider your uncertainty about socializing (drinking decision held separate) with your classmates. Not only are they going to be the best social support for you during a stressful number of years, but those with whom you socialize are likely to be those that you have the strongest professional relationships in the future because they know you the best. Doctoral programs are very close nit. You get to know the people in your program very closely. I've known plenty that met, dated, and married those they met in classes. The more you reject the possibility of socializing (to be clear, I'm not saying push connections that aren't there), the more difficult the years in training will be in a number of ways. This is all especially true if you have to move a good distance to attend your program.

In my eyes I am more concerned with people not being able to stop themselves or acting a fool instead of being able to act like an adult within the constraints of adult environments. either way, the critical point is moderation for alcohol consumption is key.

 

[PsyDr]

Once on the dinner the night before interview day an applicant got smashed and hit on the female grad students incessantly and inappropriately. He was one of the top applicants on paper, but that torpedoed any chance he had of an offer.

In my defense, I thought I had a chance with one of them.

 

[WisNeuro]

Sorry man, that was not closer material.

 

[Spydra]

I understand your position, but I would encourage you to reconsider your uncertainty about socializing (drinking decision held separate) with your classmates. Not only are they going to be the best social support for you during a stressful number of years, but those with whom you socialize are likely to be those that you have the strongest professional relationships in the future because they know you the best. Doctoral programs are very close nit. You get to know the people in your program very closely. I've known plenty that met, dated, and married those they met in classes. The more you reject the possibility of socializing (to be clear, I'm not saying push connections that aren't there), the more difficult the years in training will be in a number of ways. This is all especially true if you have to move a good distance to attend your program.

In my eyes I am more concerned with people not being able to stop themselves or acting a fool instead of being able to act like an adult within the constraints of adult environments. either way, the critical point is moderation for alcohol consumption is key.

The reasons you mention were precisely what I discussed at length with my advisor in my Master's program because she found it almost amusing that it didn't occur to me to make friends with my classmates. I haven't really made a firm decision about it in the future and figured I'd just kind of see how it goes when I get into a program.

 

[futureapppsy2]

A related question that came up at a conference in a state where marijuana is legal--would you get high with faculty or colleagues in a state in where it was legal? Personally, I've never gotten high/never used marijuana --nor do I want to, honestly--so it's a non-issue for me, but I thought it was an interesting question.

 

[smalltownpsych]

A related question that came up at a conference in a state where marijuana is legal--would you get high with faculty or colleagues in a state in where it was legal? Personally, I've never gotten high--nor do I want to, honestly--so it's a non-issue for me, but I thought it was an interesting question.

That is a great question. I personally don't use either etoh or marijuana, but one is definitely more socially acceptable than the other. Another part of that is that alcohol is not always used to the point of intoxication, but can the same really be said for marijuana? As a society, we have pretty clear laws and social norms around the use of etoh, but marijuana is newer so not so much. On the other hand, problematic alcohol use does tend to have much more severe consequences.

 

[Ollie123]

An extraordinarily well known researcher (a name everyone on this board has likely heard) was relatively open about his marijuana use and occasionally seen partaking in the evenings after a long conference day. Wouldn't do it myself, but mostly because I do think there is significantly greater stigma surrounding it (justified or not), the notion of smoking anything grosses me out and one can still be fired for a positive drug screen back home even if done in a place that was legal. Actually, I'm not even certain places where recreational use is legal have figured out how to handle the whole drug screen issue just yet. There really aren't any good tests for acute marijuana intoxication the way there are for alcohol so its a bit of a quagmire.

So basically..."no" but for very pragmatic reasons, rather than moral or boundary-based ones.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

No, but for similar reasons to smalltown and Ollie--never been interested in trying/using it, and the VA doesn't care that it's legal in a small handful of states.