Graduating high school and starting college as a junior.

[mustangsally65]

My local newspaper ran a story yesterday about a new program opening up at the town's new community college campus which will start in the fall of 2006. It's a program for 9-12th grade students to take normal high school classes and graduate with up to 44 hours of college credit, and can go to any of the 16 UNC-system colleges/universities and start as a first-semester junior.

I don't think this is fair. I"m sure there are similar programs all around the country, but it makes me fell disadvantaged. When I was in high school from 1996-2000, only about 10 percent of the students were planning to go on to college. Granted, I live in a small community, but still. No one catered to college-bound students, and my school only offered AP history, English, and Biology. I was still a freshman when I entered college, even with AP credit.

I feel like i spent countless boring and mindless hours in classes that were way below my level, and am going to be 24 in January and still haven't gotten accepted to a med school. How is this going to affect future med school admissions? Students will be 19 or 20 when applying to med school, but they will also have missed out on the entire college freshman experience. How mature will they be? I think this might change the entire description of non-trad.

Discuss. 😉

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[OwnageMobile]

It's a program for 9-12th grade students to take normal high school classes and graduate with up to 44 hours of college credit, and can go to any of the 16 UNC-system colleges/universities and start as a first-semester freshman.

You mean junior right? Regardless, this has its pros and cons. There is no way in hell that I would trade for anything the years I spent in college having an absolute blast. But I too agree; I spent many hours doing work that was simply silly. And in these classes I recieved my crappiest grades, due to my poor attitude towards doing the work meant for middle schoolers. And If joe-bob wants a college degree so he can support his family, and can do this for half the price but with equal merit, I would say it is a good program. True, joe-bob is going to be a noob when he hits the workforce, but this wil be obvious. I think med schools see young 19-20 yrs old applicants through skeptical eyes, for reasons mentioned before me.

 

[mustangsally65]

oops, yeah, I meant junior. I guess I was so mad that I couldn't think straight.

I think this is gonna pose a big maturity problem, especially for med school admissions. Some of us at 22/23 are not good candidates in some adcoms' eyes compared to those who are in their mid to late twenties and beyond.

 

[tigress]

I started college as a second-semester sophomore, technically, but I stayed for 4 years anyway. I'm glad I did. I had the chance to get a good education, and to grow up a lot. And I really needed that time to grow up. Some people might not need it, though. I guess to each his or her own. Also, just because somebody starts as a junior doesn't mean they'll graduate in 2 years. Sure, plenty will, but probably many people will decide to hang around college longer. After all, the longer you can delay starting real life, the better, right?

(I saw a high school girl walking down the street the other day with a pink backpack that had a puffy Hello Kitty-type character on it and said "School prepares you for the real world, but I want the fake world" or something like that)

 

[Pretty POHA]

oops, yeah, I meant junior. I guess I was so mad that I couldn't think straight.

I think this is gonna pose a big maturity problem, especially for med school admissions. Some of us at 22/23 are not good candidates in some adcoms' eyes compared to those who are in their mid to late twenties and beyond.

I wouldn't sweat this! So they get a good program for themselves... that doesn't secure them a spot at medical school. You have to trust that you've done the best you can with your own circumstances and that the adcoms will see that in your performance and presentation.

Most 19-20 year olds are not mature enough to go through the motions of pre-med and medical school. But a few happen to be, then good for them! I'd guess that they aren't the majority and only a few people would actually get in...

 

[Blake]

oops, yeah, I meant junior. I guess I was so mad that I couldn't think straight.

I think this is gonna pose a big maturity problem, especially for med school admissions. Some of us at 22/23 are not good candidates in some adcoms' eyes compared to those who are in their mid to late twenties and beyond.

The majority of medical students all over the world start med school earlier than US medical students. Are they less mature ? Maybe. Does that make them awful medical students ? Don't think so. Maturity isn't only defined by age. I know some attendings who started med school at 17 and they're not any more different than the ones who started at a more ''acceptable'' age. Being ''mad'' seems irrational in this case. You'd be busting out neurons if I told you my age. Chill...

 

[sunnyjohn]

Why would anybody wan't to skip through college?


It was so much fun and on someome else's dime!

 

[novawildcat]

That is just stupid. Who in the world would want to graduate college before they turned 21?

 

[45408]

Why would anybody wan't to skip through college?


It was so much fun and on someome else's dime!

I don't know who you're talking about, but any/all fun I had was on my own dime.

 

[gujuDoc]

That is just stupid. Who in the world would want to graduate college before they turned 21?

There were two kids who were child prodigies..........

One is 12 now and in an MD/PhD program.......not that I agree with letting a 12 year old in, but we won't open that can of worms.

The other, was a an Indian guy who was 13 when he started medical school and 17 when he graduated.

His father fought for him to be allowed into medical school at an early age.

Some schools, like WVSOM DO school have a 21 year old age requirement for time of graduation. In the case of the 12 year old kid, he'll be almost this age when he graduates, because he's doing a PhD first. The other kid however, was typical doogie howser story.

 

[obgyny]

My local newspaper ran a story yesterday about a new program opening up at the town's new community college campus which will start in the fall of 2006. It's a program for 9-12th grade students to take normal high school classes and graduate with up to 44 hours of college credit, and can go to any of the 16 UNC-system colleges/universities and start as a first-semester junior.

I don't think this is fair. I"m sure there are similar programs all around the country, but it makes me fell disadvantaged. When I was in high school from 1996-2000, only about 10 percent of the students were planning to go on to college. Granted, I live in a small community, but still. No one catered to college-bound students, and my school only offered AP history, English, and Biology. I was still a freshman when I entered college, even with AP credit.

I feel like i spent countless boring and mindless hours in classes that were way below my level, and am going to be 24 in January and still haven't gotten accepted to a med school. How is this going to affect future med school admissions? Students will be 19 or 20 when applying to med school, but they will also have missed out on the entire college freshman experience. How mature will they be? I think this might change the entire description of non-trad.

Discuss. 😉

well I did the dual enrollment program while i was in high school. i decided to go the homeschooling route for the last two years of high school because i thought i could get it over with and graduate a year earlier. then i learned about the dual enrollment program at the community college, where you can take college classes while in high school and get your tuition and any fees (except books) paid for. so for the last year (and the summer before it) i was going to college full time and slowed down (on purpose) with my HS work so i could go to college for free. I just technically graduated HS last month with 3 full semesters of college under my belt. so i could start applying to med school when i turn 20, but i'm not going to. it'll probably take me over 4 years to get my undergrad degree.

i didn't start college early to get it over with. i have always looked forward to it. i've found the classes and people in college to be so much more interesting.

 

[soumdoc]

hehe.............that indian guy you mentioned, the one that graduated when he was thirteen, is a family friend of ours 🙂 Let me tell you, not the most sociable either. And he went to my high school too : The Illinois Math and Science Academy.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

one of the local publics offers tests to gain credit for courses (taking the exam right off the bat, no class). i and a number of friends went and took these before making our final decisions on where to attend college. I tested all the way to first semester senior by gaining enough credit in bio, chem, physics, english, history, and spanish. BUT, i would have to retake some of those anyway if i wanted to go to medical school and do well on the mcat, and i seriously wondered how they would feel about me testing out of 3 years of college etc, without any APs (highschool didnt offer them). i ended up choosing a scholarship to a well respected private university instead, ive enjoyed my time more having a college experience thats for sure, but sometimes i think it might have been better have taken the easier route and be in med school already (though getting in through that path was questionable)...

 

[Karim]

So what if they have a bunch of credits? They still have to take the prereqs (I doubt that a regular high schooler can take organic chemistry and ace it), get clinical experience, research, shadowing and all that other stuff--if medicine is their chosen career. I'm 17 and I'm technically a junior, but I plan on spending at least 4 years in college. If they do get accepted into medical school at a very early age, then good for them. It's their loss--I plan on taking it easy and enjoying the few years left of my childhood. I find that when I rush things, they usually end up in a disaster.

 

[the alchemist]

There were two kids who were child prodigies..........

One is 12 now and in an MD/PhD program.......not that I agree with letting a 12 year old in, but we won't open that can of worms.

The other, was a an Indian guy who was 13 when he started medical school and 17 when he graduated.

His father fought for him to be allowed into medical school at an early age.

Some schools, like WVSOM DO school have a 21 year old age requirement for time of graduation. In the case of the 12 year old kid, he'll be almost this age when he graduates, because he's doing a PhD first. The other kid however, was typical doogie howser story.

Yes, there was a 12 year old korean-japanese boy let into the MD/PhD at my alma mater, The University of Chicago (Pritzker School of Medicine). He graduated from Loyola University with honors in 3 years. His mom home school he and his sister who also is a prodigy. We just learn things a little later than we actually can in this country, that's why we do so poorly compared to the rest of the world in high school in math. They learn it earlier, or at least I know that in Asia and Russia that they do. So its not that we can't learn things earlier. The only question is about our maturity

 

[gujuDoc]

hehe.............that indian guy you mentioned, the one that graduated when he was thirteen, is a family friend of ours 🙂 Let me tell you, not the most sociable either. And he went to my high school too : The Illinois Math and Science Academy.

Why does the bolded portion not surprise me one bit?????????? Oh wait, could it be cuz he was barely given the chance to properly interact with students his age or people his age before being pushed to enter the adult world at as a kid?? Now there's an idea. The boy should have been allowed to grow up some first.

 

[IAMS]

Teenagers can be mature, look at Doogie Howser - what ever happened to him??

 

[gujuDoc]

Yes, there was a 12 year old korean-japanese boy let into the MD/PhD at my alma mater, The University of Chicago (Pritzker School of Medicine). He graduated from Loyola University with honors in 3 years. His mom home school he and his sister who also is a prodigy. We just learn things a little later than we actually can in this country, that's why we do so poorly compared to the rest of the world in high school in math. They learn it earlier, or at least I know that in Asia and Russia that they do. So its not that we can't learn things earlier. The only question is about our maturity

The bolded line is the line that most concerns me. How mature is a 12 year old on an emotional, social, and mental level to be able to deal with the adult world???

But at least, this case is much much much better then the 13 year old kids case, cuz this boy will at least be a grown adult by the time he's on the wards, and a legal age.

And not only that, he's doing his younger years in the PhD part, so that won't be much different then school only sans the social skill development.

I hope he learns to interact with others on a social level well and does not turn into one of those people that lack complete people skills.

 

[Nikki2002]

i can't imagine being 13 and going to college. That would be weird and scary

oh 12 and going to med school--even better.

 

[gujuDoc]

i can't imagine being 13 and going to college. That would be weird and scary

oh 12 and going to med school--even better.

No the 13 year old was a medical student at 13. NOT UNDERGRAD.

In response to Doogie Howser..........I hardly call him the epitome of most mature doc.

 

[Nikki2002]

that's so odd--my lil bro turned 12 yesterday and i could totally see him in med school...........yeah, that would be a great life.

 

[Anastasis]

Did the 12-year-old take his mom to college with him? Not to be insulting, just that's really young to be living on your own; I'm 23 and I still wish my mommy was around sometimes. 😳

 

[Law2Doc]

i can't imagine being 13 and going to college. That would be weird and scary

oh 12 and going to med school--even better.

12 and in med school is just silly. What exactly is the rush? Most 21+ year old med students have a tough enough time connecting with their aged patients, and have their own maturity issues to deal with when handling things like blood, death, deterioration, senility, etc. At 12 being thrust into that kind of situation is more akin to torture. And you are really just setting yourself up for failure when you realize that not a whole lot of residencies are going to be interested in having a young teen alone on overnight rotations.
Much of the "learning" in college involves the social interactions, not the books. The typical college student spends as much time socializing, drinking, hooking up, making bad decisions, etc as studying, and these things contribute to the kind of person (and ultimately doctor) this individual becomes. A 12 year old likely gets to do none of this -- and college is purely cerebral for them. What should be the best few years of their life is missed.
A 12 year old who is done with college should really just stay there for eight or nine more years -- major in absolutely everything, maybe pick up a masters or two, perhaps do a ton of lab research, and only then go to med school, at the normal age.

 

[sunnyjohn]

I don't know who you're talking about, but any/all fun I had was on my own dime.

Well I paid for a lot of my education myself too.

After I moved out of the dorms and in to my own apartment, I made even more of an effort to pull my own weight.

But even with work and full time school, I had a grand time. I learned so much about myself during those years. I would not have traded them for anything.

Gradute 2 years early? Not me. Because I went to high school mostly outside the US, I started college as a sophmore.

I'd have taken the credit hours to get ahead and just triple majored and studied abroad for the extra 2 years.

 

[OwnageMobile]

 

[bgreet]

I just turned 21 and I'm starting med school next year. I didn't think I was really all that young to be starting, thought I was just normal? I finished college in 3.5 years, but I really don't see how a year makes a huge miraculous difference in the maturity of an individual. *shrug* Guess its just lost on me....

 

[Daichi Katase]

I am 17 right now and I am applying this year.

Hmmm...I am not normal. I will give you that much.

Mature? Hmmm...probably not too mature. I mean, i can be mature when i want to be, but mostly immature.

How about this missing out on fun thing? I totally agree. I feel like i have missed out on a lot of fun things in college (like random roadtrips and such). But...let's see. I am 17, extremely sociable, realistic, eccentric, intellectually capable of handling medical school and have many years at my disposal. I think i am going to be one of those crazy doctors.

peace

 

[Daichi Katase]

Also, I am 6'3'' and ripped.

 

[Blake]

I just turned 21 and I'm starting med school next year. I didn't think I was really all that young to be starting, thought I was just normal? I finished college in 3.5 years, but I really don't see how a year makes a huge miraculous difference in the maturity of an individual. *shrug* Guess its just lost on me....

Same here, even though I started earlier. It's pretty much a matter of culture. People tend to forget that in Europe, India and most asian countries, people start medical schools way earlier than the average US applicant. It's funny though. Most people on SDN complain about young people in medicine, and while most people I know in real life complain about older people applying to med. Guess people just dislike anything different from them. Human nature at its finest 👍

Anyway, it's nice and all to bag on the ''immature kids'' in medical school, but the vast majority of them will turn out to be fine and competent doctors appreciated by their patients.

Oh, and the college experience is way overrated in my opinion, and medical school didn't kill my drinking/partying/socializing life. Feel free to diss.

 

[StevenRF]

I did the whole high school community college program. Ended up with three associates and over 120 units, including all my premed reqs. Took my MCAT as well after senior year. I hoped to skip a four year college, but most schools require a B.S. or B.A., so no luck. Then I go into college.

Then comes the wake up call. Most universities think community colleges are a joke, including my advisors. This was ironic since most of my classes used the same textbooks. Since I completed the courses during high school as well, I couldn't use them to satisfy my class requirements due to school policy. I go in with 120~ general elective units. I'm forced to repeat all my requirements. So first semester I get to take bio, gen chem, physics, calc 1 and 2, and a BME course first semester. I had to fight my advisor to register over 20 units, then I had to fight the math department to let me take multiple calcs at the same time. The classes were a complete cake walk and a waist of time and money.

Moral of the Story....

1. Don't buck the system. Do the usual high school crap, some clubs, whaterver. Trying to get ahead is pointless cause you really are just a number.

2."You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for a buck fifty in late charges at the public library."

 

[OwnageMobile]

I am 17 right now and I am applying this year.

Hmmm...I am not normal. I will give you that much.

Mature? Hmmm...probably not too mature. I mean, i can be mature when i want to be, but mostly immature.

How about this missing out on fun thing? I totally agree. I feel like i have missed out on a lot of fun things in college (like random roadtrips and such). But...let's see. I am 17, extremely sociable, realistic, eccentric, intellectually capable of handling medical school and have many years at my disposal. I think i am going to be one of those crazy doctors.

peace

I would hesitate to call your next years of schooling and work "at your disposal."

The venerable saying is "Youth is wasted on the young" and personally I, after living if up for 5 years in college, wouldn't have my adolescence any other way.

I don't mean to knock your personal choices, we are probably under different circumstances e.g. cultural ones.

To me, college was a privelage. Years of independence, no kids, no spouse, no worries (relatively), financial support/scholorship for the lucky and talented, hanging out with kids your age sharing the little discoveries of the new found freedom. You are going to skip it?

Don't get me wrong, it would be cool to be an MD at 21. Props to you for hitting it that hard. Why so early though?

 

[OwnageMobile]

I did the whole high school community college program. Ended up with three associates and over 120 units, including all my premed reqs. Took my MCAT as well after senior year. I hoped to skip a four year college, but most schools require a B.S. or B.A., so no luck. Then I go into college.

Then comes the wake up call. Most universities think community colleges are a joke, including my advisors. This was ironic since most of my classes used the same textbooks. Since I completed the courses during high school as well, I couldn't use them to satisfy my class requirements due to school policy. I go in with 120~ general elective units. I'm forced to repeat all my requirements. So first semester I get to take bio, gen chem, physics, calc 1 and 2, and a BME course first semester. I had to fight my advisor to register over 20 units, then I had to fight the math department to let me take multiple calcs at the same time. The classes were a complete cake walk and a waist of time and money.

Moral of the Story....

1. Don't buck the system. Do the usual high school crap, some clubs, whaterver. Trying to get ahead is pointless cause you really are just a number.

2."You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for a buck fifty in late charges at the public library."

That sucks hard- my condolences

 

[gujuDoc]

I am 17 right now and I am applying this year.

Hmmm...I am not normal. I will give you that much.

Mature? Hmmm...probably not too mature. I mean, i can be mature when i want to be, but mostly immature.

How about this missing out on fun thing? I totally agree. I feel like i have missed out on a lot of fun things in college (like random roadtrips and such). But...let's see. I am 17, extremely sociable, realistic, eccentric, intellectually capable of handling medical school and have many years at my disposal. I think i am going to be one of those crazy doctors.

peace

I don't think 21 makes a huge difference or even 17 or 18, if a person knows what they are getting into.

My problem is with the idea of 12 or 13 year olds in medical school.

 

[gujuDoc]

Did the 12-year-old take his mom to college with him? Not to be insulting, just that's really young to be living on your own; I'm 23 and I still wish my mommy was around sometimes. 😳

hehehe.......in response to being 23 and still wishing you had your parents around......

I know many Indian kids here in tampa who stay with their parents while in school. its a cultural thing that you stay with your parents until you are married, and some families tend to do that. Many of them got their own apartments once in medical school, even if they remained in Tampa, but many continue to live at home too.

As per the 12 year old, there's an article on CNN.com about it and he does indeed live at home with his parents and his mom makes his lunch for him and what not.

 

[Anastasis]

hehehe.......in response to being 23 and still wishing you had your parents around......

I know many Indian kids here in tampa who stay with their parents while in school. its a cultural thing that you stay with your parents until you are married, and some families tend to do that. Many of them got their own apartments once in medical school, even if they remained in Tampa, but many continue to live at home too.

As per the 12 year old, there's an article on CNN.com about it and he does indeed live at home with his parents and his mom makes his lunch for him and what not.

*Ponders inviting Mom to med school*

I can see how it would be a cultural thing (I'm Irish and my mom is just alittle upset there are no grandchildren in the immediate future).

I think that if someone isn't mature enough to be living on their own yet there's no way they should be in med school. How can you be responsible for other people's lives if you're not even responsible for your own?

Now if you'll excuse me, my mom is done with my laundry and I need to go pick it up. j/k

 

[gujuDoc]

*Ponders inviting Mom to med school*

I can see how it would be a cultural thing (I'm Irish and my mom is just alittle upset there are no grandchildren in the immediate future).

I think that if someone isn't mature enough to be living on their own yet there's no way they should be in med school. How can you be responsible for other people's lives if you're not even responsible for your own?

Now if you'll excuse me, my mom is done with my laundry and I need to go pick it up. j/k

I suppose they are getting him on the PhD track until he is of legal age, so he'll be in his 20's and legal when he graduates.

 

[tigress]

Before people go generalizing, it helps to actually find out info about the 12-year-old's situation. He's 13 or 14 now and has been doing great in med school. His peers like him fine. His college professors say he was just as good a student, intellectually and emotionally, as the other students. Why? Because he's NOT NORMAL. It doesn't make any sense to base your opinions of him on how you felt when you were 12, or on your little brother, or on anything you know from your own life experiences. This kid is not just a genius, he's about as smart as humanly possible. He got over a 40 on his MCAT when he was 11 or 12. He's completely self-driven, too; he convinced his parents to let him try to get into med school. I might not approve of the sacrifices his parents have made for him (his mother and father live in separate places so the mother can live with him while he's in school), but then again, it's hard to know what to do with a kid like that. There was a study done on children with genius-level IQs who skip ahead early in life, and it was found that in almost ALL cases it was the kids pushing the parents, not the other way around. Besides, what is a kid like that supposed to do? Sit around twiddling his thumbs?

The guy who finished med school when he was 16 or 17 or whatever seems to be a sort of different case, because it seems his parents were pushing him to some degree. I don't know as much about it though.

I'm not saying people can't have the opinion that people that young shouldn't go to med school, but at least look into the actual situation first. And, as somebody said, at least this kid will be older when he graduates because he's in the MD/PhD program.

But as I said above, for the vast majority of people it's my opinion that taking things at a normal pace is good. Other countries start med school right out of high school, but because we grow up in the US, we're raised to expect the trajectory of high school followed by college followed by med school, and we mature accordingly. Like I said, I'm REALLY glad I spent a full 4 years in college, even though I didn't have to. And leaving grad school so that I will spend 2 years out of college before med school has been good for me, too, because it's given me a chance to examine my goals and priorities and grow up more. But everybody develops differently, and some people are ready to make these decisions earlier than others. So to each his or her own.

 

[gujuDoc]

Before people go generalizing, it helps to actually find out info about the 12-year-old's situation. He's 13 or 14 now and has been doing great in med school. His peers like him fine. His college professors say he was just as good a student, intellectually and emotionally, as the other students. Why? Because he's NOT NORMAL. It doesn't make any sense to base your opinions of him on how you felt when you were 12, or on your little brother, or on anything you know from your own life experiences. This kid is not just a genius, he's about as smart as humanly possible. He got over a 40 on his MCAT when he was 11 or 12. He's completely self-driven, too; he convinced his parents to let him try to get into med school. I might not approve of the sacrifices his parents have made for him (his mother and father live in separate places so the mother can live with him while he's in school), but then again, it's hard to know what to do with a kid like that. There was a study done on children with genius-level IQs who skip ahead early in life, and it was found that in almost ALL cases it was the kids pushing the parents, not the other way around. Besides, what is a kid like that supposed to do? Sit around twiddling his thumbs?

The guy who finished med school when he was 16 or 17 or whatever seems to be a sort of different case, because it seems his parents were pushing him to some degree. I don't know as much about it though.

I'm not saying people can't have the opinion that people that young shouldn't go to med school, but at least look into the actual situation first. And, as somebody said, at least this kid will be older when he graduates because he's in the MD/PhD program.

But as I said above, for the vast majority of people it's my opinion that taking things at a normal pace is good. Other countries start med school right out of high school, but because we grow up in the US, we're raised to expect the trajectory of high school followed by college followed by med school, and we mature accordingly. Like I said, I'm REALLY glad I spent a full 4 years in college, even though I didn't have to. And leaving grad school so that I will spend 2 years out of college before med school has been good for me, too, because it's given me a chance to examine my goals and priorities and grow up more. But everybody develops differently, and some people are ready to make these decisions earlier than others. So to each his or her own.

Tigress,

Fair enough in regards to the 12 year old kid's situation.

In regards to a 17 or 18 year old starting medical school, I never did oppose.

 

[OwnageMobile]

BThere was a study done on children with genius-level IQs who skip ahead early in life, and it was found that in almost ALL cases it was the kids pushing the parents, not the other way around.

I'm gonna need a source here tigress. 👍 👍 👍