Group Medication Management

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Encephalopathy

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I'm hoping to find out the prevalence of medication management groups - where patients are seen only in a group and prescriptions are dispensed at the end of the hour?

In residency programs, and also in the general community. Thanks!
 
I can tell you from my experience, I haven't seen this. I find this actually odd. Giving out medications as a group? Several people have different experiences with the same medication, even when they had the same disorder. Medications also should be tailored to an individual's specific status. E.g. the person's general medical condition, environmental sitaution, etc needs to be considered. Finally if someone does have specific effects, they can be very personal, and the patient might not want to share it with a group, e.g. sexual side effects.

If someone does have some knowledge on this, please enlighten us.
 
I've only seen it with suboxone groups at the VA. There are definitely some drawbacks, but in general these were guys that wouldn't go to groups normally, and a half hour a week to get some perspective of other people who have made the same mistakes they've made, and are working their butts off to make a good life out of those mistakes, is probably pretty good treatment. It also helps with talking down dose increases, for those guys who want 20 just so they can take their 16 and go sell 4, since many of the guys actually develop some bravado about their progress and how much less they may need now than before.

It was generally clear that if there were issues that couldn't be addressed in group, they could hang around after and talk to us about whatever was going on. It was actually pretty impressive seeing some of the guys get called out in the group for dirty urines, and having to deal with a bunch of other folks with addictive disorders who weren't going to put up with their BS excuses.

I can't imagine another context where I think the group model would work nearly as well. Some of the attendings were actually pretty skeptical about the groups, but I think on net they were actually very good things.
 
Okay, suboxone only. That makes some sense since suboxone is pretty much in a class of it's own when it comes to the treatment of opioid dependence. I'm also kinda ticked with the amount of opportunists willing to charge an arm and a leg to give out suboxone.

I just saw a guy the other day and I prescribed him suboxone. He said his previous psychiatrist charged him $500 per session for "suboxone therapy." When he saw me, he got charged what anyone else would've gotten charged for any session.

Hey, I'd be willing to charge perhaps more money for suboxone tx but an extra $500 on top of everything else? Damn.
 
I can see it with suboxone but even then I would think the patient should have an initial 1:1. Otherwise you ruin the informed consent and violate privacy. I am guessing that at these group sessions, each person's medical conditions, medications etc aren't just discussed in public.
 
Thanks for your responses. I am in 100% agreement with you guys.

The reason I ask is that my residency program has implemented just such a group model in the outpatient clinic. The residents have been uncomfortable adjusting medications based on the limited information obtained in a group, so we have now been granted the concession that we may also make individual appointments for these patients when we request to do so.

However, the expectation is still that the majority of prescriptions will be dispensed at the end of the group. This premise just feels negligent to me, and goes against all my training thus far.

In response to our concerns, we have been told that this group model is widely prevalent throughout residencies and the community, and that it is our own inexperience that is preventing us from eliciting adequate information, and it is something we will learn to do as the year goes on.

This is likely something that we will be taking to the ACGME. I have looked at HIPAA regulations and they seem to cover what to do with information already obtained, and not so much anything about obtaining it confidentially in the first place. Any other suggestions on how to handle this situation?
 
Thanks for your responses. I am in 100% agreement with you guys.

The reason I ask is that my residency program has implemented just such a group model in the outpatient clinic. The residents have been uncomfortable adjusting medications based on the limited information obtained in a group, so we have now been granted the concession that we may also make individual appointments for these patients when we request to do so.

However, the expectation is still that the majority of prescriptions will be dispensed at the end of the group. This premise just feels negligent to me, and goes against all my training thus far.

In response to our concerns, we have been told that this group model is widely prevalent throughout residencies and the community, and that it is our own inexperience that is preventing us from eliciting adequate information, and it is something we will learn to do as the year goes on.

This is likely something that we will be taking to the ACGME. I have looked at HIPAA regulations and they seem to cover what to do with information already obtained, and not so much anything about obtaining it confidentially in the first place. Any other suggestions on how to handle this situation?

What?!! I have never even heard of this.

Where are you training?
 
In response to our concerns, we have been told that this group model is widely prevalent throughout residencies and the community, and that it is our own inexperience that is preventing us from eliciting adequate information, and it is something we will learn to do as the year goes on.

I've never seen this type of thing before, though I do think in the suboxone case it could be appropriate, though I'd still have several issues with it that would have to be answered before I'd approve of that type of thing.

As for the patients, they have a right to know that this likely the not the standard of care--unless there's something about your specific area where this is normal practice. I wouldn't tell a patient directly, I'd bring it up the department first.

Aside from that, this type of practice IMHO legitmately brings up the argument of why even have a psychiatrist if psychotropic medication is so generically based that it can be done with a group?

If you were told this type of practice is the norm, you're either being deceived or this is the norm somewhere that I've never heard of (hmm, like where? Siberia?) I'd call up your local APA chapter and ask them to see if there's information to back the program's claims.
 
This is a really interesting idea, but I too am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this would work in psychiatry.

From my experience in primary care, there is a growing model of doing "group medical visits" for a cohort of patients with a single disease or group of diseases. This works best when the cohort is carefully chosen. Off the top of my head, some of the conditions I have seen/heard of being managed in group visits includes diabetes, HTN, erectile dysfunction (yup!), obesity/weight loss, and (more generically) metabolic syndrome. In one case I heard about a specific cohort of "adolescents with poorly controlled type 1 diabetes" which certainly are a special population of their own. I would imagine this model could also be applied to rheum disease (eg, RA?) or maybe even chronic pain management. The unifying theme in all of these conditions is that there is a substantial component of lifestyle and psychosocial issues in successfully managing the illness, in addition to taking meds. Also, management of these conditions is greatly enhanced by good patient education, and you end up giving a similar education/counseling spiel to many pts with the condition. (For example, I know that my diet counseling for type 2 DM is probably 80% similar for the vast majority of my pts).

The way such group visits usually work is something along these general lines: A physician or physician group identifies pts in their practice with the target condition, who are willing to participate in the group visit model. The size of the group has to be manageable (ie, maybe 8 pts). Length of the group visit is perhaps 2 hrs. There is actually a group component and an individual component. It seems to work best if there are 2 clinicians, one to run most of the group, and one to pull pts out to do their individual portion of the visit. In the group, issues are addressed that are common to many pts with the disease, and pts can learn from each other. For example, in a diabetes group, the group session may address diet choices/nutrition education, medication adherence, self-monitoring skills, exercise, etc. The group is led/facilitated by a clinician, but encourages pts to share information and strategies and challenges with each other as well. Meanwhile, a second clinician pulls out one pt at a time from the group and reviews their individual data (eg, A1c, BP, med list, glucometer log, weight, etc) and makes adjustments to their meds or whatever. That's also a time when the pt can mention any individual concerns he/she doesn't want to bring up in the group. Finally, at the end of the group visit, all the pts leave with their new prescriptions, etc. Often these group visits are done as a series with the same cohort, so that there is an opportunity to build rapport within the group and also to be able to focus each session in the series on a different main topic area. According to the literature, the benefit to patients appears to be that they end up getting a lot more educational counseling time than they normally would during a 15-min individual visit, and they learn from peers about strategies to manage their illness.

Thinking about this model from primary care, I can see how it might be effectively translated to psychiatry for suboxone management. I wonder whether it could also be utilized for moderate depression, anxiety disorders, or PTSD. I absolutely agree that the nature of psychiatry is different from primary care. There is much more of a nuanced art to psychopharm and individual responses, side effects, etc, compared with diabetes meds for example. Maybe the model of pulling out each individual for 15 min would not work because the individual needs more private time than that--but I do not see pts for much longer than that in my outpatient med-check visits anyway. But psychiatric illnesses share something in common with DM/HTN/obesity/pain/etc, which is that the lifestyle and self-management component is a HUGE part of successfully managing the illness. And just like my diabetic patients, many of my depressed or anxious patients have common issues with adherence, self-management skills, healthy routines, exercise, sleep, etc. These issues could probably be addressed effectively in a group-visit model, while the specifics of each person's medication regimen could be done during their individual pull-out portion. And anyone who is too acute or is having major issues requiring big change in treatment plan, would not be appropriate for the group setting and should be scheduled in traditional individual appointment format instead.

I am interested to hear other thoughts on this.
 
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