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Grenth

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VA sites pretty much universally adhere to uniform notification date rules/recommendations, so reneging on a postdoc offer can be difficult if not impossible for the site to essentially recover from. Thus, I don't know if it'd fully burn bridges, but the odds of it at least somewhat negatively impacting the training faculty's views are reasonably high. That's not to say you should base your decision entirely on the possibility of burnt bridges, but if the plan is to leave postdoc before starting or finishing, I'd be expecting it as a repercussion.
 
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Grenth said:
The GS-11 job is pretty much my ECP dream job. My TD (also the TD for the PDs) argued that it wouldn't really be a dick move because at the end of the day the hospital wants to hire their trainees. In the past two/three years, they've had two interns do this. However, I think the preceptor would feel different and my gut says it's bad which is why I asked. I'm just so pissed they got rid of the PDs I wanted yet timing means I can't count on a job.
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Would you be taking a postdoc in the clinic that you are hoping to be hired on in? Or would this be a postdoc at another hospital/clinic?
 
WisNeuro said:
Would you be taking a postdoc in the clinic that you are hoping to be hired on in? Or would this be a postdoc at another hospital/clinic?
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One postdoc is 70+% in this clinic, the others are all same hospital different clinics.
 
Grenth said:
One postdoc is 70+% in this clinic, the others are all same hospital different clinics.
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Are they aware that you would leave if offered a job? Otherwise, I still maintain it's a pretty dick move. It would have wasted their interview period, and they would be very hard pressed to find an adequate replacement after the initial application and recruitment process.
 
WisNeuro said:
Are they aware that you would leave if offered a job? Otherwise, I still maintain it's a pretty dick move. It would have wasted their interview period, and they would be very hard pressed to find an adequate replacement after the initial application and recruitment process.
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I think a lot of this depends on the particulars of the professional politics of your specific VA, but based on my experience at the one VA I've been at there seems to be a lot of understanding for trainees navigating the transition from trainee to staff. Everyone understands that the VA system is a fickle and unpredictable beast. The expectation is that people do their best to be transparent and considerate, and sometimes that's inconvenient for one or both parties (e.g., sometimes you get an offer and don't actually "start" the position for six months due to HR lag, or sometimes you take a postdoc position and leave early to take a staff position). My experience is that staff are generally able to understand the unpredictable nature of seeking a VA staff position, and don't attribute individuals' behavior to them as a professional under most circumstances.

In other words, my experience suggests that people won't hold it against you if you explain the circumstances up front and ultimately end up leaving the position early, but YMMV.
 
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beginner2011 said:
I think a lot of this depends on the particulars of the professional politics of your specific VA, but based on my experience at the one VA I've been at there seems to be a lot of understanding for trainees navigating the transition from trainee to staff. Everyone understands that the VA system is a fickle and unpredictable beast. The expectation is that people do their best to be transparent and considerate, and sometimes that's inconvenient for one or both parties (e.g., sometimes you get an offer and don't actually "start" the position for six months due to HR lag, or sometimes you take a postdoc position and leave early to take a staff position). My experience is that staff are generally able to understand the unpredictable nature of seeking a VA staff position, and don't attribute individuals' behavior to them as a professional under most circumstances.

In other words, my experience suggests that people won't hold it against you if you explain the circumstances up front and ultimately end up leaving the position early, but YMMV.
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Meh, I'm one of those that believes in sticking to your obligations. If you agree to a position for a certain amount of time, you honor that as long as the other party keeps their end of the deal. This happened in one of the postdocs while I was an intern. I totally concur with our TDs words, "That person will never get a job here."
 
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I guess for me the question would be more, do you feel ready for a VA staff job? It's a lot different being a staff psychologist vs. a trainee.
 
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beginner2011 said:
I think a lot of this depends on the particulars of the professional politics of your specific VA, but based on my experience at the one VA I've been at there seems to be a lot of understanding for trainees navigating the transition from trainee to staff. Everyone understands that the VA system is a fickle and unpredictable beast. The expectation is that people do their best to be transparent and considerate, and sometimes that's inconvenient for one or both parties (e.g., sometimes you get an offer and don't actually "start" the position for six months due to HR lag, or sometimes you take a postdoc position and leave early to take a staff position). My experience is that staff are generally able to understand the unpredictable nature of seeking a VA staff position, and don't attribute individuals' behavior to them as a professional under most circumstances.

In other words, my experience suggests that people won't hold it against you if you explain the circumstances up front and ultimately end up leaving the position early, but YMMV.
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Thanks. This is what my mentors have been saying. I think I was raised from WiseNeuros POV though so it's feeling hard.
 
At the end of the day, those who are happiest put themselves first. Accept that dream position already, and don’t look back.
 
Grenth said:
However, a GS-11 position will open up in the clinic I wanted to do a postdoc (that no longer offers one) in in March.
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With this being the VA, there's no guarantee that any future positions will be posted as scheduled (or even at all due to last minute front office priority changes, unexpected hiring freezes, etc) so I'd probably apply for the postdocs and then make sure you communicate very clearly if you end up with a UND postdoc but also apply for the staff position. And by the UND match date comes around, there may be more clarity about the staff position.

Even then, there's no guarantee that you'll get the staff position or even have your application forwarded to the hiring manager to be considered for an interview due to VA HR incompetence. I've applied to numerous jobs that HR determined I did not meet area of consideration (or some other factor) which was just plain incorrect.

Good luck!
 
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This is too messy. Do the postdoc. If that clinic is a match for you, and they like you. A future spot will open one way or another down the road. They may even hold something for you (as best they can in the VA) if it comes up.
 
I agree. I've seen people in this position and it's always a risk, as positions in the VA go up and down all the time.
 
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