Guardant 360

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Question for attendings: what effect does this and technologies like it have on the field of pathology?
 
Yes with increasing frequency. It is supported by literature to be as effective as tissue biopsy in detecting targetable mutations. There are preanalytical issues with specimen stability especially traveling long distances which are often downplayed. There was an article last year showing discrepancies between two circulating tumor DNA tests which talked about the preanalytical variables.

Too answer the question on how it will affect our field. The thing to remember is it’s only going to be for patients with high stage cancer where the diagnosis has already been made by the radiologist. There are often many cancer patients who have a lung nodule which is biopsied and dxed by a pathologist then sent to oncology. I still think it’s a long way off in replacing tissue biopsy since as far as I can tell it can distinguish met vs primary vs lymphoma and radiologists are not always right.
 
I am seeing it being ordered on some patients that have NOT had a tissue diagnosis (various reasons why they didn't bx).

I know nothing about reimbursement for this test.
 
My hospital is a Foundation One shop (cue the bumper sticker of Calvin peeing on the Guardant 360 logo).

FoundationOne Liquid

Right now the technology is nibbling at the edges, but I'm on record saying it has the capacity to drastically decrease the number of specimens/ancillary tests performed by surgical pathologists. I tell my residents that surgical pathology will never go away completely in their lifetimes, but these tests will significantly reduce the number of specimens exacerbating the pathologist oversupply issues. I tell them to develop skills outside the traditional surg path skill set so that when they're competing against 4 other pathologists for the same job 20 years hence, they'll have the edge.

Example 1: A couple months ago I had an FNA to confirm metastatic lung adeno. The FNA was diagnostic, but the cell block had insufficient malignant cells for tissue based NGS. In the past that would have meant another procedure and another specimen. The oncologist thought that the delay involved in that sequence was too great--blood was drawn and sent for Foundation One Liquid.

Example 2: 2 weeks ago I diagnosed metastatic endometrioid carcinoma on a core needle. The tissue was pretty scant and I would have burned through it performing all the IHC in my lab (ER, PR, MSI, PDL-1). I opted to send it for Foundation One CDX, so I could get all the info in one fell swoop (but obviously that precluded billing for all the IHC that I mentioned before).

As an aside, I haven't done a molecular fellowship (my fellowship was in a different field), but I consider myself smarter than the average bear when it comes to these molecular tests because I invest in the space and keep up with the literature. Most oncologists are totally clueless about these tests--interpretation, methodology, analytic variables, why this test can't predict PDL-1 status, etc. I'd be really interested in a CME boot-camp offered by Guardant or Foundation One that really delved into the laboratory aspects of the tests that would help pathologists own the consultative area around testing appropriateness (and didn't require a year-long molecular fellowship). Guardant and Roche are you listening? It would also serve to increase brand awareness and increase revenue.
 
Question for attendings: what effect does this and technologies like it have on the field of pathology?

Lol I've seen you asking these kinds of questions everywhere. Good questions but if you have to keep asking, isnt that a bad sign? You are an AMG, go into something else. Suck up a prelim year and pick something more secure.

These kinds of tests will become more and more prevalent. Medicine is moving away from invasive diagnostics and focusing instead on imaging modalities and genetics. Specimen volumes will fall.
 
My 2c as an expert in this field:

1. ctDNA tests like this have poor sensitivity when compared to FFPE NGS tests. For this reason, they are indicated when A) there is not sufficient tissue for genetic/genomic testing of the primary lesion (this is most frequent in lung adenocarcinoma where biopsies may be 1-3 mm thick cores with variable amount of tumor), or B) when obtaining a biopsy is not feasible (like the patient refuses, or is too ill to undertake the procedure). The sensitivity issue is profound in some tissue types (like brain) and almost non-existent in others (like CRC).

2. I don't believe this test provides any challenge to pathology work, in fact, it could serve to add additional value, provided pathologists become the consultants to explain very complex molecular findings and laboratory procedures. This test does not replace the need for a tissue-based diagnosis, period.

3. The paper discussed above by Deucedano is pretty flawed in many ways (maybe I will discuss later if people care). One thing that is very relevant however is that it should be understood then different labs are testing different things, so variance in results should be expected; these are not normally due to quality issues with the labs (although that can and does happen).
 
The tests are coming at us fast and furious. It is overwhelming.

Another test we are seeing is from Veracyte. If we have a bronch that is non-diagnostic but they have a high level of suspicion, they send a brushing of the right mainstem (regardless of where the nodule is interestingly) to Veracyte.

At some point in the not too distant future, our accession counts are going to drop dramatically.

A good stock tip is Nanostring for those of you looking to make some cash while we head to obsolescence.
 
I'm a molecular fellow and I'm seeing this ordered by our oncologists with increasing frequency alongside our in house tissue based NGS and being asked to explain results at tumor board. ctDNA biopsy is one of the hot topics in molecular right now but it suffers from sensitivity and pre-analytic issues...but those are being worked on ie ctDNA blood collection tubes, ddPCR, etc. All the ctDNA talks at AMP this year were packed.
 
My 2c as an expert in this field:

1. ctDNA tests like this have poor sensitivity when compared to FFPE NGS tests. For this reason, they are indicated when A) there is not sufficient tissue for genetic/genomic testing of the primary lesion (this is most frequent in lung adenocarcinoma where biopsies may be 1-3 mm thick cores with variable amount of tumor), or B) when obtaining a biopsy is not feasible (like the patient refuses, or is too ill to undertake the procedure). The sensitivity issue is profound in some tissue types (like brain) and almost non-existent in others (like CRC).

2. I don't believe this test provides any challenge to pathology work, in fact, it could serve to add additional value, provided pathologists become the consultants to explain very complex molecular findings and laboratory procedures. This test does not replace the need for a tissue-based diagnosis, period.

3. The paper discussed above by Deucedano is pretty flawed in many ways (maybe I will discuss later if people care). One thing that is very relevant however is that it should be understood then different labs are testing different things, so variance in results should be expected; these are not normally due to quality issues with the labs (although that can and does happen).
Thanks for your expert input
 
I opted to send it for Foundation One CDX, so I could get all the info in one fell swoop (but obviously that precluded billing for all the IHC that I mentioned before).

We get a fair number of requests to send FFPE to Foundation, not infrequently on top of the panel of testing we already did in house. Not 100% sure, as neither the test ordering nor the results would go through us, but I don't think our oncologists have been using ctDNA tests on peripheral blood very much yet. I've only come across results from such testing while discussing oncology patients/looking through the EMR maybe 3-4 times.
Because we are a private practice group with no external research funding, we limit the genes/markers we report to those that are officially recommended by some national guidelines (usually NCCN), otherwise we can't get reimbursed. We do pick up other pathogenic mutations on our NGS panel and will discuss them at molecular tumor board and/or upon request.
Ziehl-Neelsen - Not sure what your situation is, but I know if we voluntarily opted to send a specimen to Foundation (without having a specific request from a treating clinician documented), our group would have to eat the cost of the external testing.
 
The tests are coming at us fast and furious. It is overwhelming.

Another test we are seeing is from Veracyte. If we have a bronch that is non-diagnostic but they have a high level of suspicion, they send a brushing of the right mainstem (regardless of where the nodule is interestingly) to Veracyte.

At some point in the not too distant future, our accession counts are going to drop dramatically.

A good stock tip is Nanostring for those of you looking to make some cash while we head to obsolescence.


Nanostring what the heck is that?
 
Ziehl-Neelsen - Not sure what your situation is, but I know if we voluntarily opted to send a specimen to Foundation (without having a specific request from a treating clinician documented), our group would have to eat the cost of the external testing.

Government/Single payer institution. My institution has a contract with Foundation Medicine and the lab handles all utilization for complex testing. In this case, judging that we would likely have burned through the tissue for IHC and then likely received a request for NGS profiling based on the IHC results (possibly requiring another procedure and additional expense on top of what the lab had already expended on testing), I let the gyn-onc know that sending for NGS up front would be the more prudent decision. The gyn-onc saw my logic and off it went.

To the American Taxpayer: You're welcome.
 
Guardant Health Inc stock up 14 percent (7.99 per share) today at 2:23 pm! :greedy:
Thank you so much for bringing Nanostring and similar type GUARDANT HEALTH to my attention over a month ago-wish i had loaded the boat-look at another molecular stock IIPR :>]
 
I am not a fan of buying stocks. I am a rental properties, farms, businesses investor but I will play the stock market a little. Glad I got in. The payoff will be buying me some more rentals and land soon.
 
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Why Guardant Health Is the Best Healthcare Stock You've Never Heard Of -- The Motley Fool

Tissue biopsy numbers are going to plummet sooner than many realize. Feel bad for young pathologists who are going to have to pivot mid-career and do something else.

To quote Thrombus "FLEE PATHOLOGY NOW"
Hope you are wrong but thanks again so very much for the stock suggestion.It has more than doubled since your suggestion.Wish i had bought more of course .If one owns enough shares it is like a partial insurance policy for falling biopsy income.
 
At one point last week the stock was 105 dollars a share. Unbelievable how fast this took off. I noticed the oncologists were ordering it heavy just a few months ago. Got in at good time.

I am sorry I didn't get in on Veracyte last year. That stock has went up from like 6 a share to 22. There is a new test the lung docs are using for suspicious lesions that they can't get an adequate sample. They do a brushing and send it to veracyte so we will see if they can diversify their test menu more soon. Reimbursement for afirma is crazy good in this time of PAMA. We are all barely keeping our doors open due to PAMA and some people are getting paid well.
 
Careful with financial advice... this has been a hot stock for sure... but new stocks have a knack for being hyped and then dumped. There has been very low volume driving this movement which should be worrisome.
I cant comment on the specifics of the stock and cannot and wont discuss its value, but volatility in general is not usually a good thing, even when it looks like all roses.
 
A great way to end up with a small fortune is to start with a large one and speculate in individual stocks.
 
If you want to become a millionaire, make a billion dollars and start an airline.

I hate stock market but it is fun sometimes. My strategy has worked so far with the handful of biotech I have bought over the years. These latest winnings are going to go into more rental properties for sure.
 
If you want to become a millionaire, make a billion dollars and start an airline.

I hate stock market but it is fun sometimes. My strategy has worked so far with the handful of biotech I have bought over the years. These latest winnings are going to go into more rental properties for sure.
Are you adding following the recent $18 fall from high ???How about NSTR ?
 
I am out. Happy with what I got. Can't be upset with nearly tripling my money in such a short time. Going to follow them in the next few years and might buy again before Lunar data comes out.
 
Out as well.... pretty sure market is about to take a breather.... crazy 2019 run so far... bigger than the dot.com
 
Yes but still not made up for the huge 2018 losses. So this was expected

market has been running on air. All I see are companies being bought up on er misses, and money outflows... I am expecting a BIG pullback soon.
 
I hope Trump stays around for another 4 years. Economy definitely much better in my neck of the woods over the last few years. Factories hiring like crazy. Even the minimum wage has went up due to competition for labor.
 
If overall market trend stays positive... I think $GH is making a comeback for all time highs... chart looks pretty.....back in.
 
Guardant Health shared new data this week from its efforts to validate blood-based tests for early cancer detection and monitoring, reporting on a study of samples from colorectal cancer patients in which it applied a combination of somatic and epigenetic analyses to classify samples as either positive or negative for the presence of a tumor.

The firm is currently a few months into offering its first commercial, research-use-only assay for early cancer detection, called LUNAR. Right now that test combines only mutational and methylation analyses. But what Guardant calls fragmentomics is also emerging as an important focus of internal research, according to the company's presentation yesterday at the annual meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research here.

The timing is significant considering Guardant's announcement last week that it is acquiring University of Washington spinout Bellwether Bio.
Bellwether was formed to advance a method of blood-based cancer detection developed in the lab of UW professor Jay Shendure. That company's focus has been on detecting cancer via patterns of circulating DNA fragments, which reflect the unique nucleosome positioning within these molecules as they once existed in their cell of origin. Investigators led by Shendure and his former graduate student Matthew Snyder first published on their discovery regarding nucleosome positioning in 2016.

Guardant Health President and Chief Operating Officer AmirAli Talasaz said in an interview that he and others at Guardant have known Shendure for years, and that the company had been talking with Bellwether about its work for some time before making the decision to acquire the firm.
The potential added value of layering new sources of cancer signal — like nucleosome positioning or fragmentomics — over more commonly interrogated somatic mutations, is "amazing," Talasaz said. "Scientifically, [there is] an incredible amount of signal in tumor cells, so if you have the right analytical tools you can improve sensitivity and specificity significantly," something the company believes it has begun to demonstrate with the new data.

"It's clear that [Bellwether] is one of the pioneers, and in terms of this fragmentomics approach, we think they are the pioneer, with the paper they published in 2016 being a landmark," Talasaz said. "It really made sense to us to join forces, and was a good opportunity for them because they are truly passionate to get this technology out in the clinic," he added.

In the meantime, Guardant has begun to provide evidence of what the incorporation of fragmentomcis and nucleosome positioning with Bellwether may add to its early detection and monitoring assays.

In a presentation on Sunday, Talasaz described a study of a combined approach — including circulating tumor DNA sequencing, methylation analysis, and fragmentomics — in a small case control cohort of early- to late-stage colorectal cancer patients and age-matched controls.
Overall, the company's assay was able to produce 90 percent sensitivity at a set specificity of 89 percent. Setting specificity cutoffs higher, at 94 percent and 98 percent, sensitivity was 88 percent and 79 percent, respectively.

Importantly, investigators also broke down the data by cancer stage. At 89 percent specificity, sensitivity was 100 percent for stage IV samples, 95 percent for stage III, 90 percent for stage II and 84 percent at stage I.

At 94 percent specificity, sensitivity dropped to 76 percent for stage I tumors. And at a 98 percent specificity cutoff sensitivity was 64 percent.
Interestingly, the company also calculated what assay sensitivity would have been at these various cutoffs if it was limited only to ctDNA sequence, with detection levels dropping nearly 50 percent compared to what the combined assay could achieve in early stage patients.

Among Guardant's competitors in the cancer early detection race, several have also presented data in colorectal cancer, in some cases also combining both mutation detection and methylation.

In a study presented at the American College of Gastroenterology Annual Meeting last year, Freenome investigators shared data on about 800 CRC samples most of which represented early-stage disease (up to stage II).

As in Guardant's study, sensitivity was lower for the earliest-stage cancers — dropping below 80 percent — but stayed close to the 82 percent level for stage II and III patients and was close to 100 percent for late-stage cancers.

Grail previously reported that its method could pick up 69 percent of stage I and II CRC cases, increasing to 85 percent detection of stage III and IV tumors.

Talasaz said that Guardant believes that the layering of multiple signals, in its case somatic mutations, methylation, and now fragmentomics, additively benefits both sensitivity and specificity. At least thus far, the signals don't seem to be redundant, he added.
The firm is not alone in recognizing the need for, and value of, multi-modal strategies for this difficult project of detecting incipient cancers. Among those promoting combined approaches, investigators from Johns Hopkins have shown, for example, that protein markers may also offer added value.

As part of his presentation of the Guardant CRC results, Talasaz shared a slide that plotted each sample in the study by epigenomic tumor fraction against somatic tumor fraction, demonstrating a large group of well-defined cancer positives with both epigenomic and mutation signals of cancer. However, there were also defined groups in which there was either only an epigenetic signal or only a somatic signal. Interestingly, all of the assay false-positives appear to have been in either of these single-positive subsets, though the same was true for a significant number of early-stage cancers.

According to Talasaz, the sensitivity and specificity numbers in the current study — near 90 percent sensitivity even in stage I cancers at a 90 percent specificity cutoff — is something Guardant believes would be competitive considering currently available clinical tools.
For other screening applications in other cancers, where there isn’t the same clinical paradigm that CRC offers (with colonoscopy as a readily available diagnostic follow up) the firm might need to improve performance further.

As with other studies of this type, questions remain around the status of individuals who were false-positives according to the Guardant assay. If followed for longer time periods these presumably cancer-free individuals that nonetheless have a somatic or epigenetic cancer signal at some point might come to show signs of a tumor.

Talasaz said that Guardant is investigating this and will hopefully have more information to share in the future.
 
Guardant's stock is all over the place. Down in the 60s now after being over 100 at one point in March. Wonder when to get back in???
 
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