GW 5-year decelerated program

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I finally received word from GW post-interview. The letter I received stated that I would be considered for their 5-year MD program instead of their 4-year MD program. Frankly, I was a little confused/insulted.

Does anyone out there who has experience with this program think that I should even consider it? I like GW but it's rather expensive, although the letter stated that the normal tuition is split 50/50 in the first two years so that the program's fees are the same as the four-year MD program.

Thanks

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Originally posted by nontraditional
I finally received word from GW post-interview. The letter I received stated that I would be considered for their 5-year MD program instead of their 4-year MD program. Frankly, I was a little confused/insulted.

Does anyone out there who has experience with this program think that I should even consider it? I like GW but it's rather expensive, although the letter stated that the normal tuition is split 50/50 in the first two years so that the program's fees are the same as the four-year MD program.

Thanks

George Washington has an international MD program that is 5 years long. I believe if you're applying as a citizen of another country (including Canada), you would be considered for that program. The drawback is, supposedly that program is for people who are planning to practice in their own country, NOT in the US.
 
I am familiar with the program that you are talking about. Basically this is a program reserved for people who have truly shown an interest in medicine but have had a little trouble with their grades. Your first year is expanded to 2 years. So instead of having 1 set of classes in the fall and the second half in the spring your first semester classes are 1 year long.

You should not be insulted. What they are telling you is that you are good for our school but may need a little extra umph.
 
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Originally posted by EMT2ER-DOC
I am familiar with the program that you are talking about. Basically this is a program reserved for people who have truly shown an interest in medicine but have had a little trouble with their grades. Your first year is expanded to 2 years. So instead of having 1 set of classes in the fall and the second half in the spring your first semester classes are 1 year long.

You should not be insulted. What they are telling you is that you are good for our school but may need a little extra umph.

Thanks EMT2ER-DOC.

Does anyone know how the 5-year students are perceived in the student body? Is it even an issue? I'm bothered by the term "Decelerated" - it sounds like the "special-ed" programs back in grade school.
 
Too many people o SDN are worried about their image and how others will perceive them...I feel sorry for you guys. If you want to be a doctor and you like GW, then go!
 
I hope i dont start some AA thread, but from my knowlege of the decelerated program, and correct me if i'm wrong, the 5 yr program is GW's way of increasing the % of URMs in the school. By decelerating the curriculum they can ensure that ostensibly less qualified URMs wont have as much difficulty grasping the material.
 
Originally posted by PhillyGrrl
Too many people o SDN are worried about their image and how others will perceive them...I feel sorry for you guys. If you want to be a doctor and you like GW, then go!

Good point. This isn't going to be some stigma on you, and its not like your patients are going to know, so who cares? MD is MD is MD. 🙂

~AS1~
 
Originally posted by exmike
I hope i dont start some AA thread, but from my knowlege of the decelerated program, and correct me if i'm wrong, the 5 yr program is GW's way of increasing the % of URMs in the school. By decelerating the curriculum they can ensure that ostensibly less qualified URMs wont have as much difficulty grasping the material.

What?? 😕 🙄
Where did you get this infomation?
 
Originally posted by CalBeE
George Washington has an international MD program that is 5 years long. I believe if you're applying as a citizen of another country (including Canada), you would be considered for that program. The drawback is, supposedly that program is for people who are planning to practice in their own country, NOT in the US.

CAnadians are not considered as foreign students. They are not eligible for the international program, they are treated as US citizens.
 
Ex-mike's version: Un-PC, blunt but ultimately truthful

The PC, sensitive version: A decelerated program which spreads the first year MD coursework over two years is also available. The admissions committee will consider applicants they feel possess high potential in medicine but who may experience a difficult transition into medical school. Applicants may not apply specifically to this program. There are only a limited number of seats available.

Patronizing. But at least they have good intentions, I guess.
 
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
Ex-mike's version: Un-PC, blunt but ultimately truthful


That's weird...It doesn't state anywhere on GW's website that the decelerated program is for URMs. Could you or Ex-Mike provide a reference for that information?
 
I wonder if there's a short bus to class, hehehe, just kidding, MD=MD, nobody will know that you used up an extra year to get there...
 
Why would GW say something explicitly on their website that would potentially stigmatize a group of people that they want to help? Like I said, they do have good intentions.

A decelerated curriculum is one of several well known strategies to help lower URM failure rates (board, attrition, etc) Now obviously there are non-URMs in this program. However, I will give 9:1 odds that the OP is a URM with grades substantially less than GW's average of 3.55/28.3


Problem:
Once in medical school, minorities are more likely....to fail the national board exams on the first sitting. Rates for repeating first year courses are three to five times higher for minorities than nonminorities....Minorities also experience higher attrition rates. In 1973, the retention rate for minority students was 88%, compared to 97% for all students....

Solutions:
Retention strategies at this level require a certain amount of individualization.... Two such programs have been successfully established at Indiana University and the University of Tennessee. Similar to these institutions, new counseling programs should involve a discussion about external stressors, effective study skills, time management, tutoring, and a decelerated curriculum....

Concerns:
Students felt that others saw them as having only been accepted to medical school "because they were minority."..... When discussing factors that may aggravate their situation, some minority students specifically described these same minority programs as a "double-edged sword.".... The minority students felt that some nonminority students perceived the programs as remedial...

This is a cut and paste summarization from a study commissioned in 1996 by the AMSA, a minority medical student advocacy organization. I'll try to find a link for you later.
 
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Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
Students felt that others saw them as having only been accepted to medical school "because they were minority."..... When discussing factors that may aggravate their situation, some minority students specifically described these same minority programs as a "double-edged sword.".... The minority students felt that some nonminority students perceived the programs as remedial...


The 5 year decelerated program at GWU would allow this URM to finish her PhD in Path. But of course, no one here EVER thought a URM could use the decelerated program for this reason🙄
 
Originally posted by nontraditional
I finally received word from GW post-interview. The letter I received stated that I would be considered for their 5-year MD program instead of their 4-year MD program. Frankly, I was a little confused/insulted.

Does anyone out there who has experience with this program think that I should even consider it? I like GW but it's rather expensive, although the letter stated that the normal tuition is split 50/50 in the first two years so that the program's fees are the same as the four-year MD program.

Thanks

Hi there,
GW's 5-year program is designed for students who show promise in terms of being able to complete the medical school curriculum but may need extra time to adjust to ramping up for medical school. Admission to this program may be offered to good non-traditional students who may have been away from the academic world. This program is NOT for increasing URMs. GW does not have a problem attracting well-qualified URMs as the school sits in the middle of downtown Washington, DC.

You get plenty of time to adjust to the curriculum and master the first year subjects because you have two years to really hone these classes. You can also use the extra time to get some really good grades so that you start your second year (really your third year) with a higher average than some of the 4-year folks who have been slogging away. The disadvantage is that it takes you two years to do what the 4-year folks do in one.

The 4-year folks do not have problems with the 5-year folks because of the higher standards. (See below) After the 5-year folks complete their first two years, they are the same as any other medical student. Students in the 5-year program generally reflect the ethnic and age composition of the class, with some being younger and some being older.

A couple of caveats though:

As a participant in the 5-year program, you are held to a different standard than the 4-year folks. You must score above the class mean in order to pass the course. (The class mean may be well above the minimum pass score) If you do not pass any course, you are out. This could present a major problem if you get through the first year and are almost done with the second year but get the boot. It will be almost impossible for you to get into any other medical school in the United States because you would have failed out of a 5-year program.

The five-year program is NOT remedial medical school. You are just decelerated to give you plenty of time to get adjusted to a very demanding curriculum. You will not be given any additional courses but it will take you an extra year to graduate. Once you have finished the first decelerated year, you become a member of the next year's class.

While the first two years are decelerated, the last four are not. Second year (which would actually be third year for a decel student) is a very academically strenous year even for the 4-year folks. Most of the second-year subjects well represented on USMLE Step I are the second-year subjects and not the first year classes so you have to ramp up very quickly second year.

If you get accepted into GWs 5-year program, take it and don't look back. Be ready to hit the ground running though and be prepared to work hard to keep your grades high.

There is no stigma attached to graduating as a 5-year student from GW. Your degree is going to say MD and if your performance is good, your USMLE scores are good, you are going to match into a good residency.

I hope this helps!

njbmd🙂
 
Originally posted by PhillyGrrl
That's weird...It doesn't state anywhere on GW's website that the decelerated program is for URMs. Could you or Ex-Mike provide a reference for that information?

Ummm. . .I work at GW and know of SEVERAL white ppl in the program. I also know several enrolled URMs who HAD the requisite 3.5/30 MCAT. PhillyGrrl, like you said, the program is not advertised as a URM program because it's NOT specific to URMs.

As if only URMs need help transitioning to medical school! 🙄
 
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
Why would GW say something explicitly on their website that would potentially stigmatize a group of people that they want to help? Like I said, they do have good intentions.

I assure you that ANY medical school with a program geared toward minorities has NO PROBLEM explicitely stating this on the website or in any publication.

BTW, Ryo-Ohki, are you in med school?
 
Originally posted by PhillyGrrl
That's weird...It doesn't state anywhere on GW's website that the decelerated program is for URMs. Could you or Ex-Mike provide a reference for that information?

I think Ex-mike's and Ryo-Ohki's view here is false. Like many have stated, if this was the TRUE reason for a decelerated program then the school should have no problem stating this on their site.

I don't know where you two got this idea from but the theory just doesn't make sense.
From my stand, I think decelerated programs are for ANY student/applicant who feels he/she needs more time to complete the medical program due to hardship that might include having children and other personal responsibilities. If you know that you will have a hardtime with the amount of information chucked at you in the first 2years, then the decelerated program is a way to help you.
But I don't think it was started for URMs....that's another bunch of crock made up my some people with too much time on their hands.

To the OP- if you were automatically recommended for the program and you are confused, I suggest you contact the dean of admissions and just inquire what methods they use to put students in a decelerated program.
 
Jamaican MD and Bush Baby,

I know the program is not geared towards attracting URMs. I was just being sarcastic. It's interesting how they made the assumption that decelerated = URMs.
 
Hey guys, didnt I make the caveat that I didnt want to start some AA/URM thing. I also said "correct me if im wrong". I didnt say I knew it as a fact, I just heard that it was geared towards URMs a while back.

I'm thiking along the lines of the GEMS program at georgetown which is pretty much a program to get URMs into georgetown med. I dont know if they advertise it much (re: the statements about the "stigma" of decelerated programs)

Anyways, didn't mean to start a fuss, I was just passing along what I heard, whether or not it was true.
 
Originally posted by exmike
Hey guys, didnt I make the caveat that I didnt want to start some AA/URM thing. I also said "correct me if im wrong". I didnt say I knew it as a fact, I just heard that it was geared towards URMs a while back.

I'm thiking along the lines of the GEMS program at georgetown which is pretty much a program to get URMs into georgetown med. I dont know if they advertise it much (re: the statements about the "stigma" of decelerated programs)

Anyways, didn't mean to start a fuss, I was just passing along what I heard, whether or not it was true.

Hi there,

I was an Assistant professor at GWU medical school. The Decel program was never for URMs (and never resembled the GEMS in any way) but for any student that GWU deems in need of a decelerated program. You do not enter the Decel program by choice but by placement by the admissions office of GW. The typical student in the Decel program would be a student with a solid academic record but classes that are old; a student with outstanding MCAT scores but a marginal GPA; and any student that shows promise but needs the time (may have family obligations) to adjust to the curriculum. As I stated before, the Decel students are held to a HIGHER standard than the 4-year folks and are not "conditional" students by any stretch of the imagination. They tend to graduate with higher averages than the average 4-year student.

njbmd
 
Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki
Patronizing. But at least they have good intentions, I guess.

I forgot to mention the MD/PhD graduate I personally know that was admitted under the decelerated program at GWU. And the program admisistrator for GEMS at Georgetown told me that there are a couple MD/PhD graduates from there as well.

In other words, education is what you make it!😎
 
Originally posted by njbmd
Hi there,
GW's 5-year program is designed for students who show promise in terms of being able to complete the medical school curriculum but may need extra time to adjust to ramping up for medical school. Admission to this program may be offered to good non-traditional students who may have been away from the academic world. This program is NOT for increasing URMs. GW does not have a problem attracting well-qualified URMs as the school sits in the middle of downtown Washington, DC.

You get plenty of time to adjust to the curriculum and master the first year subjects because you have two years to really hone these classes. You can also use the extra time to get some really good grades so that you start your second year (really your third year) with a higher average than some of the 4-year folks who have been slogging away. The disadvantage is that it takes you two years to do what the 4-year folks do in one.

The 4-year folks do not have problems with the 5-year folks because of the higher standards. (See below) After the 5-year folks complete their first two years, they are the same as any other medical student. Students in the 5-year program generally reflect the ethnic and age composition of the class, with some being younger and some being older.

A couple of caveats though:

As a participant in the 5-year program, you are held to a different standard than the 4-year folks. You must score above the class mean in order to pass the course. (The class mean may be well above the minimum pass score) If you do not pass any course, you are out. This could present a major problem if you get through the first year and are almost done with the second year but get the boot. It will be almost impossible for you to get into any other medical school in the United States because you would have failed out of a 5-year program.

The five-year program is NOT remedial medical school. You are just decelerated to give you plenty of time to get adjusted to a very demanding curriculum. You will not be given any additional courses but it will take you an extra year to graduate. Once you have finished the first decelerated year, you become a member of the next year's class.

While the first two years are decelerated, the last four are not. Second year (which would actually be third year for a decel student) is a very academically strenous year even for the 4-year folks. Most of the second-year subjects well represented on USMLE Step I are the second-year subjects and not the first year classes so you have to ramp up very quickly second year.

If you get accepted into GWs 5-year program, take it and don't look back. Be ready to hit the ground running though and be prepared to work hard to keep your grades high.

There is no stigma attached to graduating as a 5-year student from GW. Your degree is going to say MD and if your performance is good, your USMLE scores are good, you are going to match into a good residency.

I hope this helps!

njbmd🙂

The decelerated students do not need to score above the class mean, but rather they need to score above one standard deviation below the class mean (this will be higher than the 4-year MD minimum pass but certainly doable).

http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/academic/medicine/degrees/decelerated.html
 
Originally posted by exmike
Hey guys, didnt I make the caveat that I didnt want to start some AA/URM thing. I also said "correct me if im wrong". I didnt say I knew it as a fact, I just heard that it was geared towards URMs a while back.

I'm thiking along the lines of the GEMS program at georgetown which is pretty much a program to get URMs into georgetown med. I dont know if they advertise it much (re: the statements about the "stigma" of decelerated programs)

Anyways, didn't mean to start a fuss, I was just passing along what I heard, whether or not it was true.

Exmike,

you said your information with such authority so we felt the need to correct your assumptions!

The fact that GEMS is for URMs is FAR from "hush hush." It's in the MSAR, on the GU website, there is literature available about the program, etc etc etc.

There should be no stigma for programs geared at URMs or for non-URM decelerated programs. The fact is the we all have different issues and need help in various ways. Like Bush baby said, one could have family obligations, or medical problems for that matter.

Besides, I would think that a student who took 5 years to graduate but graduated with honors has nothing to be ashamed of, right??
 
I just received the letter about being offered the 5 year program. FYI, I'm a white female with a 3.9 GPA, so I'm guessing because I have children I am not considered capable of the 4 yr program. Luckily I was already accepted at a better school with the 4 yr curriculum. I too am offended & confused by there offer.
 
Originally posted by Marianne11
I just received the letter about being offered the 5 year program. FYI, I'm a white female with a 3.9 GPA, so I'm guessing because I have children I am not considered capable of the 4 yr program. Luckily I was already accepted at a better school with the 4 yr curriculum. I too am offended & confused by there offer.

I think it's unfortunate you feel this way. An MD is an MD and completing medical school in 5 years is something that as a Mom I'm already thinking about and I haven't applied yet to the class entering in 2005. Lets be real here, I think it would be a lot easier to complete medical school in 5 years than in 4 when you're a Mom too.

Finally, GWU is the exception among medical schools in terms of how they "treat" their nontrad students. You may go to a "better" school, but it may not be "better" than GWU would be for you as a nontrad.
 
My school offers a 5 year program if you "choose" it. I think by only accepteing a student to a 5 yr program isn't right unless you have a very low MCAT and they think you can't handle it. But to discriminate for any other reason is wrong. At least at my school you can swtich to the 5 yr program if you need to. GWU doesn't allow students to make this choice. It's either the program they select for you or nothing. So if you get the 4 yr program and want to switch, you can't. Sounds "better" to me. LOL Plus, DC is horrible for raising children. It was my last choice school if my other acceptances didn't happen. Good luck to you.
 
I know that RWJ has a 5-year decelerated program, but you only do it if you want to do it. If the schools sees that you're struggling (failing exams or barely passing them), then they will meet with you and suggest the program, but that's as far as it goes. I don't see why GW has to mandate that program for people. I'm sure that they get enough applications from candidates that they feel are "good enough" to do fine in the 4-year program not to have to giving acceptances on the condition that the individuals do 5 years. I think that they have applicants' best interests in mind, but are going about it the wrong way.
 
Originally posted by Marianne11
Plus, DC is horrible for raising children. It was my last choice school if my other acceptances didn't happen. Good luck to you.

I live in the DC area and I can't imagine why you would think DC is horrible for raising children. Haven't you heard of Georgetown?:laugh:

Either way, good luck to you too and go nontrads!!:clap: :clap:
 
nontraditional said:
I finally received word from GW post-interview. The letter I received stated that I would be considered for their 5-year MD program instead of their 4-year MD program. Frankly, I was a little confused/insulted.
Does anyone out there who has experience with this program think that I should even consider it? I like GW but it's rather expensive, although the letter stated that the normal tuition is split 50/50 in the first two years so that the program's fees are the same as the four-year MD program.

Thanks

I'm an alternate for GW's 5-year decelerated program. I was wondering if you gave up your acceptace if you got one or know someone who was considered for the 5-year program and withdrew from it or withdrew their acceptance. Let me know....I'm a reapplicant, and it looks like this is my only shot for medical school next year. I was accepted nowhere, and this was the only waitlist that I got. Let me know if you can help me.
~Kelly e-mail: [email protected]
 
njbmd said:
As a participant in the 5-year program, you are held to a different standard than the 4-year folks. You must score above the class mean in order to pass the course.

My friend (MD/PhD) told me yesterday that when she was in the decel program at GWU in the late 90's, students could score one SD below the average. This is obviously different for what Dr.Belle put in her post. Does anyone have any current info regarding the decel program? Thanks!
 
exmike said:
I hope i dont start some AA thread, but from my knowlege of the decelerated program, and correct me if i'm wrong, the 5 yr program is GW's way of increasing the % of URMs in the school. By decelerating the curriculum they can ensure that ostensibly less qualified URMs wont have as much difficulty grasping the material.


someone really ought to contact Dean Haynie or Dr. Kirby
about your ignorant comments. i bet Case didn't know they
accepted a bigot. 👎
 
LoveDoc said:
someone really ought to contact Dean Haynie or Dr. Kirby
about your ignorant comments. i bet Case didn't know they
accepted a bigot. 👎

What he said wasn't bigoted, and he has since admitted that he was incorrect in his information.
 
Yeah nice caveat there guy..........gimme a break.........that is like saying ....all people of the color orange are intellectual dwarfs thus the 5yr GW program, oh by the way I dont mean to turn this into an AA.
Nice try though slick.
I have a feeling that people whining about URMs are just sore losers, apply again next year or tell your brother/sister/cousin/friend/neighbor to apply again. There is this misconception that URMs 'take' spots away from regular applicants-the regular applicant pool is/was always there and so what if a few more slots are 'opened' up for URMs. It is not like the schools 'pared off' some regular slots to make room for URMs.
Get over it and get on with life.

PS a similar minded person is stirring up 'trouble' regarding Albert Einstein School of Medicine-he was in there asking what is the percentage of Jews.
Like who gives a crud!
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:
 
LoveDoc said:
someone really ought to contact Dean Haynie or Dr. Kirby
about your ignorant comments. i bet Case didn't know they
accepted a bigot. 👎
Wow. A real "Thought Police" kinda statement. Very Christian of you, too. 🙄
 
JattMed said:
Yeah nice caveat there guy..........gimme a break.........that is like saying ....all people of the color orange are intellectual dwarfs thus the 5yr GW program, oh by the way I dont mean to turn this into an AA.
Nice try though slick.
I have a feeling that people whining about URMs are just sore losers, apply again next year or tell your brother/sister/cousin/friend/neighbor to apply again. There is this misconception that URMs 'take' spots away from regular applicants-the regular applicant pool is/was always there and so what if a few more slots are 'opened' up for URMs. It is not like the schools 'pared off' some regular slots to make room for URMs.
Get over it and get on with life.

PS the same guy is stirring up 'trouble' regarding Albert Einstein School of Medicine-he was in there asking what is the percentage of Jews.
Like who gives a crud!
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:
What crack pipe are you smoking? I just saw that thread...no posting by ExMike. You were referring to him right? Sheesh.
 
Not the same one as your mother.........check again :laugh:
Have you been tampering?
Besides who are you, his mother?
 
JattMed said:
Not the same one as your mother.........check again :laugh:
Have you been tampering?
Besides who are you, his mother?
🙄 Riiight.

Who the heck are you talking about? You speak like zuma.....
 
Naw Boss I am not 'Zuma'.
I just wanna get through a day in life without hearing someone bitch!
Have a good one.
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:
 
pathdr2b said:
My friend (MD/PhD) told me yesterday that when she was in the decel program at GWU in the late 90's, students could score no more than one SD below the average. This is obviously different for what Dr.Belle put in her post. Does anyone have any current info regarding the decel program? Thanks!


Getting things back to the question at hand! 🙄
 
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