GW PsyD and masters

[Guruchild]

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Hi all. I was just wondering does GW 's psyd program offer a masters degree option en route to receiving the doctorate? Also does having a masters provide an advantage with regard to obtaining an APA accredited internship or postdoctoral fellowship, landing a job, and possibly teaching in the future?

Thanks

 

[PsyDHokie]

Hi all. I was just wondering does GW 's psyd program offer a masters degree option en route to receiving the doctorate? Also does having a masters provide an advantage with regard to obtaining an APA accredited internship or postdoctoral fellowship, landing a job, and possibly teaching in the future?

Thanks

Hi Guruchild,

The GW's PsyD program DOES offer a masters degree option en route to receiving the doctorate. They DO NOT offer a terminal master's, so after your second year you will be awarded a Master's in Psychology (PsyM), but you are required to continue your studies and work towards your doctorate. The PsyM at GW is pretty new, but it is very similar to the PsyM that is awarded to students at the Rutger's PsyD program.

I am only a first year student, so I am not sure how beneficial having a master's for future internships would be, but I know it was pretty helpful for me when it came to applying to PsyD programs. My undergraduate grades were not great and graduate school was a good route for me to show my academic capabilities.

From what I am told, some internship sites require master's degrees to even apply, so in that regards it is helpful. What I was also told is when you apply for internship, hours worked towards a terminal masters is different from ones working towards a doctorate.

Hope that helps!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Hi Guruchild,

The GW's PsyD program DOES offer a masters degree option en route to receiving the doctorate. They DO NOT offer a terminal master's, so after your second year you will be awarded a Master's in Psychology (PsyM), but you are required to continue your studies and work towards your doctorate. The PsyM at GW is pretty new, but it is very similar to the PsyM that is awarded to students at the Rutger's PsyD program.

I am only a first year student, so I am not sure how beneficial having a master's for future internships would be, but I know it was pretty helpful for me when it came to applying to PsyD programs. My undergraduate grades were not great and graduate school was a good route for me to show my academic capabilities.

From what I am told, some internship sites require master's degrees to even apply, so in that regards it is helpful. What I was also told is when you apply for internship, hours worked towards a terminal masters is different from ones working towards a doctorate.

Hope that helps!

Just to address the last point--yes, hours worked toward a terminal master's degree are kept separate from doctoral training hours on the APPIC internship application. But to clarify for those who may be confused, a master's earned in the course of your doctoral training does not count as a terminal master's, and thus all hours earned in your doctoral program (i.e., those before and after receiving your master's) are reported as doctoral training hours.

I personally am not aware of any programs that do not offer a master's along the way toward obtaining a doctorate (this holds in other disciplines as well, including math, engineering, and biology). However, I'll also say that the only programs I've looked at closely enough to have that information are Ph.D. programs; thus, Psy.D. sites may work differently.

 

[Phipps]

Just to address the last point--yes, hours worked toward a terminal master's degree are kept separate from doctoral training hours on the APPIC internship application. But to clarify for those who may be confused, a master's earned in the course of your doctoral training does not count as a terminal master's, and thus all hours earned in your doctoral program (i.e., those before and after receiving your master's) are reported as doctoral training hours.

I personally am not aware of any programs that do not offer a master's along the way toward obtaining a doctorate (this holds in other disciplines as well, including math, engineering, and biology). However, I'll also say that the only programs I've looked at closely enough to have that information are Ph.D. programs; thus, Psy.D. sites may work differently.

So, if I already earned a M.S. as a terminal degree, I would earn another M.S. degree en route to my Psy.D./Ph.D.??

 

[AcronymAllergy]

So, if I already earned a M.S. as a terminal degree, I would earn another M.S. degree en route to my Psy.D./Ph.D.??

Depends on the program, although most likely not. You make a good point, though--I forgot to mention in my post above that earning a master's en route to a doctorate usually only occurs if you're coming in without a master's.

However, if your master's did not include a thesis, or if your thesis isn't accepted by the doctoral program, then yes, you'd complete a thesis and (I believe) earn another master's.

 

[PsychAndMusic]

So, if I already earned a M.S. as a terminal degree, I would earn another M.S. degree en route to my Psy.D./Ph.D.??

This is going to happen to me. I'm in a PhD program so not sure if its any different for PsyDs but I got my MA and will be getting ANOTHER MA en route to my PhD. Even though I wrote a Masters Thesis, since my thesis was only a lit review and did not have to be defend my program won't count it towards my degree. I was able to waive some classes but not the MA requirement. Oh well like they said, its just another opportunity to get some more published work. 👍

 

[Neuropsych2be]

So, if I already earned a M.S. as a terminal degree, I would earn another M.S. degree en route to my Psy.D./Ph.D.??

I got a terminal MS and was awarded an MA while still working on the Ph.D.. Awhile back to do a forensically-oriented practicum I I had to register for a certification program as an outpatient forensic examiner. I had to send the state agency information about my degree status. It was kinda weird having to explain to them how I can have 2 masters degrees in the same subject from different schools.

 

[Phipps]

Depends on the program, although most likely not. You make a good point, though--I forgot to mention in my post above that earning a master's en route to a doctorate usually only occurs if you're coming in without a master's.

However, if your master's did not include a thesis, or if your thesis isn't accepted by the doctoral program, then yes, you'd complete a thesis and (I believe) earn another master's.

Well, I enter a Psy.D. program with a M.Sc. in Counseling Psych (with thesis, qualitative). But what if the Psy.D. program does not even require a dissertation nor a thesis?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well, I enter a Psy.D. program with a M.Sc. in Counseling Psych (with thesis, qualitative). But what if the Psy.D. program does not even require a dissertation nor a thesis?

I have absolutely no idea how non-dissertation/non-thesis programs work. It's possible that they would award you the thesis along the way so that you'd have one in clinical rather than counseling, but again, I'm not sure. If they felt that your master's work was equivalent to theirs, they may just waive the whole requirement. Unfortunately, waivers for coursework are usually more difficult to come by; although again, my experiences and knowledge are restricted to Ph.D. programs.

 

[Phipps]

I have absolutely no idea how non-dissertation/non-thesis programs work. It's possible that they would award you the thesis along the way so that you'd have one in clinical rather than counseling, but again, I'm not sure. If they felt that your master's work was equivalent to theirs, they may just waive the whole requirement. Unfortunately, waivers for coursework are usually more difficult to come by; although again, my experiences and knowledge are restricted to Ph.D. programs.

Thanks, AcronymAllergy!
here is another, unrelated question, for both Ph.D. and Psy.D. students who have earned a Master's degree prior to entering a doctoral program:

I am tempted to ask for transfer of credits for a class but I am not sure how smart that is or whether that could hurt me in terms of contents I would miss out on?

Any thouhts??

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Thanks, AcronymAllergy!
here is another, unrelated question, for both Ph.D. and Psy.D. students who have earned a Master's degree prior to entering a doctoral program:

I am tempted to ask for transfer of credits for a class but I am not sure how smart that is or whether that could hurt me in terms of contents I would miss out on?

Any thouhts??

You earned them, use them. That may be all they're good for at this point!

 

[Phipps]

You earned them, use them. That may be all they're good for at this point!

Not sure what you mean, Buzz... Use them for transfer or use them in the sense of apply them?

Phipps

 

[purplebutterfly]

Thanks, AcronymAllergy!
here is another, unrelated question, for both Ph.D. and Psy.D. students who have earned a Master's degree prior to entering a doctoral program:

I am tempted to ask for transfer of credits for a class but I am not sure how smart that is or whether that could hurt me in terms of contents I would miss out on?

Any thouhts??

As PsyDHokie mentioned, at GW's PsyD program you earn your PsyM en route to the PsyD. As far as I can tell, it's merely a formality. There is no dissertation requirement for the PsyD (it's more of a case paper/lit review), so they won't make you write a master's thesis. Plus, a qualitative methods master's thesis qualifies as a thesis in a lot of programs

As for your second question, absolutely go for the transfer credits. Why pay for the credits all over again? If you are coming to GW's program with a M.S., try to transfer in stats. The stats prof (from the PhD program) sucks. Nearly everyone in the class is very frustrated with his teaching.

luck!

 

[PsyDHokie]

As PsyDHokie mentioned, at GW's PsyD program you earn your PsyM en route to the PsyD. As far as I can tell, it's merely a formality. There is no dissertation requirement for the PsyD (it's more of a case paper/lit review), so they won't make you write a master's thesis. Plus, a qualitative methods master's thesis qualifies as a thesis in a lot of programs

As for your second question, absolutely go for the transfer credits. Why pay for the credits all over again? If you are coming to GW's program with a M.S., try to transfer in stats. The stats prof (from the PhD program) sucks. Nearly everyone in the class is very frustrated with his teaching.

luck!

Agreed with purplebutterfly! GW is approx. $1200 per credit hour, so transfer whatever credits you can, especially if you think you have a good grasp of the material. You should transfer statistics and possibly research methods, because the course material does not change throughout various programs. For courses that are a little more theoretical, I would take them, because most likely it will be helpful for comprehensive exams.

Transfer credit not necessarily saves you money, because there are some stipulations with financial aid. If you are going to take a loan, you will need to stay a full-time student, therefore above a minimum amount of credits- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. You do not want your loan payments to kick in when you are not able to pay for them.

The good thing about transferring credits is you will be able to take an extra class here and there to either lighten up your load, or just get some elective classes that might of be of more interest to you. I plan on getting all my required courses out of the way and then take courses in the Washington DC Consortium. You also must remember that transfer credits are on a case by case basis and must be approved by the professor, your advisor, the program director, and Dean.

The maximum you will be able to transfer is 27 credits at GW, but most likely you will not be able to transfer that many. Even if you are able to transfer a semester worth of credits, you will still have your dissertation/Major Area paper to work on and externship, so graduating early is not really possible. Internships do not accept applications until the Fall, so even if you finished your course work early, you will be waiting.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Not sure what you mean, Buzz... Use them for transfer or use them in the sense of apply them?

Phipps

Transfer them! (If I may be so bold)

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Agreed with purplebutterfly! GW is approx. $1200 per credit hour, so transfer whatever credits you can, especially if you think you have a good grasp of the material. You should transfer statistics and possibly research methods, because the course material does not change throughout various programs. For courses that are a little more theoretical, I would take them, because most likely it will be helpful for comprehensive exams.

Transfer credit not necessarily saves you money, because there are some stipulations with financial aid. If you are going to take a loan, you will need to stay a full-time student, therefore above a minimum amount of credits- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. You do not want your loan payments to kick in when you are not able to pay for them.

The good thing about transferring credits is you will be able to take an extra class here and there to either lighten up your load, or just get some elective classes that might of be of more interest to you. I plan on getting all my required courses out of the way and then take courses in the Washington DC Consortium. You also must remember that transfer credits are on a case by case basis and must be approved by the professor, your advisor, the program director, and Dean.

The maximum you will be able to transfer is 27 credits at GW, but most likely you will not be able to transfer that many. Even if you are able to transfer a semester worth of credits, you will still have your dissertation/Major Area paper to work on and externship, so graduating early is not really possible. Internships do not accept applications until the Fall, so even if you finished your course work early, you will be waiting.

$1200/credit hour? Holy hell...

I would agree that transferring credits, especially with such a steep price, would likely be a good idea UNLESS you feel you didn't/don't fully understand the material the first time through. In my case, there are some classes I've taken in grad school that I hypothetically wouldn't mind transferring (e.g., social and cognitive psych), while there are others that I've considered re-taking two years in a row just to have a better grasp of the material (e.g., multivariate, SEM).

In the end, you're the only one who knows how well you understood and remember the material. If you're confident in these respects, and with such a hefty price tag attached to re-taking the classes, I say go for as many transfer credits as possible.

 

[PsychAndMusic]

Thanks, AcronymAllergy!
here is another, unrelated question, for both Ph.D. and Psy.D. students who have earned a Master's degree prior to entering a doctoral program:

I am tempted to ask for transfer of credits for a class but I am not sure how smart that is or whether that could hurt me in terms of contents I would miss out on?

Any thouhts??

I emailed a bunch of syllabi from my MA to my DCT at my PhD program. She said she isn't sure how many classes could actually transfer over - each syllabus will be reviewed individually by whatever professor is teaching that course and then they'll decide if they'll waive that course for me or not. If they feel comfortable enough letting you waive the course I suppose they don't think you'll be missing out on anything so why not try to waive them? I'm definitely going to be reviewing material from the courses that will be waived before I begin my program though

 

[Phipps]

Agreed with purplebutterfly! GW is approx. $1200 per credit hour, so transfer whatever credits you can, especially if you think you have a good grasp of the material. You should transfer statistics and possibly research methods, because the course material does not change throughout various programs. For courses that are a little more theoretical, I would take them, because most likely it will be helpful for comprehensive exams.

Transfer credit not necessarily saves you money, because there are some stipulations with financial aid. If you are going to take a loan, you will need to stay a full-time student, therefore above a minimum amount of credits- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. You do not want your loan payments to kick in when you are not able to pay for them.

The good thing about transferring credits is you will be able to take an extra class here and there to either lighten up your load, or just get some elective classes that might of be of more interest to you. I plan on getting all my required courses out of the way and then take courses in the Washington DC Consortium. You also must remember that transfer credits are on a case by case basis and must be approved by the professor, your advisor, the program director, and Dean.

The maximum you will be able to transfer is 27 credits at GW, but most likely you will not be able to transfer that many. Even if you are able to transfer a semester worth of credits, you will still have your dissertation/Major Area paper to work on and externship, so graduating early is not really possible. Internships do not accept applications until the Fall, so even if you finished your course work early, you will be waiting.

Thanks much for all the info provided! This is helpful. One more question that came up in regard to financial aide: if I am required to stay a FT student in order to qualify for Stafford f.i., and transfer let's say one class, 3 credits, I may not be considered FT since I am below 9 credits which is the cut for being FT, correct? Specifically for this of you who are at GW, if I was to transfer a class do they make me take an elective instead, so that I would maintain the amount of credits required or would I actually take less classes, meaning, <$$$??

Thanks a bunch, guys!!!

Ms. Phipps

 

[purplebutterfly]

Thanks much for all the info provided! This is helpful. One more question that came up in regard to financial aide: if I am required to stay a FT student in order to qualify for Stafford f.i., and transfer let's say one class, 3 credits, I may not be considered FT since I am below 9 credits which is the cut for being FT, correct? Specifically for this of you who are at GW, if I was to transfer a class do they make me take an elective instead, so that I would maintain the amount of credits required or would I actually take less classes, meaning, <$$$??

Thanks a bunch, guys!!!

Ms. Phipps

I think the required credit hours for full-time status is 9, but you should check this out on studentloans.gov. Most people who transferred in credits took other courses in the program that they'll have to take anyway (such as track courses, history & systems, or community interventions). I forgot about what PsyDHokie mentioned re: maintaining full-time status and needing clinical hours to apply for internships, so it might not mean you graduate any earlier.

Whether you get to transfer in classes is up to your advisor and depending on who that is, it may be harder to do so if the classes you took were not taught from a psychodynamic perspective (except stats and research methods, of course!). In the first semester, you will take psychodynamicpsychopathogy, assessment I, and biological bases of behavior. It’s unlikely that they’ll allow you totransfer in credits for those classes, so a lot of this you can sort out withyour advisor when you arrive.

The other thing you might want to consider is taking an extra course in the fall and spring semesters of yourfirst year--- if you can afford it (I couldn’t). The first year is ridiculously light in termsof course load, but the second year gets crazy busy because you’ll have clients,supervision, courses (with more requirements), team meetings, and otherobligations. A lot of students in myyear took extra classes to reduce their load, although (from what I can tell),that will mostly help you in your third year.

 

[PsyOfRelief]

The other thing you might want to consider is taking an extra course in the fall and spring semesters of yourfirst year--- if you can afford it (I couldn’t). The first year is ridiculously light in termsof course load, but the second year gets crazy busy because you’ll have clients,supervision, courses (with more requirements), team meetings, and otherobligations. A lot of students in myyear took extra classes to reduce their load, although (from what I can tell),that will mostly help you in your third year.

That is a really great idea, Purplebutterfly. I noticed that our first year schedules looked rather light, but didn't realize that we could take extra classes -- I wasn't sure if we needed all the first year courses as prerequisites. Do you know what extra classes the students in your cohort took, whether they were electives or required classes? I'm really looking forward to starting at GW in the fall, and filling up that first year schedule just a little more seems like a smart thing to do.

 

[Phipps]

I think the required credit hours for full-time status is 9, but you should check this out on studentloans.gov. Most people who transferred in credits took other courses in the program that they'll have to take anyway (such as track courses, history & systems, or community interventions). I forgot about what PsyDHokie mentioned re: maintaining full-time status and needing clinical hours to apply for internships, so it might not mean you graduate any earlier.

Whether you get to transfer in classes is up to your advisor and depending on who that is, it may be harder to do so if the classes you took were not taught from a psychodynamic perspective (except stats and research methods, of course!). In the first semester, you will take psychodynamicpsychopathogy, assessment I, and biological bases of behavior. It’s unlikely that they’ll allow you totransfer in credits for those classes, so a lot of this you can sort out withyour advisor when you arrive.

The other thing you might want to consider is taking an extra course in the fall and spring semesters of yourfirst year--- if you can afford it (I couldn’t). The first year is ridiculously light in termsof course load, but the second year gets crazy busy because you’ll have clients,supervision, courses (with more requirements), team meetings, and otherobligations. A lot of students in myyear took extra classes to reduce their load, although (from what I can tell),that will mostly help you in your third year.

Yes, I agree with the above poster. I too would be interested in hearing about what sort of extra/elective/additional classes others took during their first year -reducing the class load and taking second or even third year classes sounds smart to me too. Like you I don't think that I will be able to take any more classes than I have to unless I get a fellowship or assistantship for my second or third year 😀

 

[purplebutterfly]

That is a really great idea, Purplebutterfly. I noticed that our first year schedules looked rather light, but didn't realize that we could take extra classes -- I wasn't sure if we needed all the first year courses as prerequisites. Do you know what extra classes the students in your cohort took, whether they were electives or required classes? I'm really looking forward to starting at GW in the fall, and filling up that first year schedule just a little more seems like a smart thing to do.

A lot of the classes do require you to have completed the first year requirements, but you can take Cross-Cultural Psych, Trauma (which I think has maxed out the # of students, but you could email the prof and see if he'll let you in), and Life Span Development.I think all of those count toward one or more tracks. In the Spring, you could take Group, History & Systems or Community Intervention. Group is an adult track course; H&S and Community Intervention are required (I think).

 

[purplebutterfly]

Yes, I agree with the above poster. I too would be interested in hearing about what sort of extra/elective/additional classes others took during their first year -reducing the class load and taking second or even third year classes sounds smart to me too. Like you I don't think that I will be able to take any more classes than I have to unless I get a fellowship or assistantship for my second or third year 😀

I think the best time to take extra classes is your first year. Second year will be really busy; I'll have 11 credit hours in the Fall 😱. Incidentally, I forgot to mention... if you take an extra class or two your first year, it would make sense to make it a track course (cross-cultural would be a smart choice) because that might take care of one or two track courses in your second year. It's best to consult with your advisor when one is assigned to you, tho.