GW vs Downstate

[eyang22286]

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sorry guys, yet another comparison, but i searched and couldn't find any comparisons between these two schools. should be an interesting discussion i hope.

so it's probably looking like it'll be down to these two for me. i know they're quite different schools, but i'm having trouble weighing in everything so i would like to hear some opinions from people who interviewed at/attend these schools.

i got a very good vibe from GW when i interviewed there. the school really met my expectations, especially with the new top floor of the hospital and the really cool opportunities DC has to offer. on top of that, DC was awesome too.................. but yeah, it does carry that hefty price tag...

as for downstate, i actually went in with less expectations, however, i left very impressed. the new anatomy labs really are nice, and the type of clinical experience offered there seems like a rare opportunity. plus, NYC is incredible as well............... and yeah, i know DS is priced very well

like i said, both schools offer very different opportunities, both of which i think i would love. just a little about me, research is an interest of mine and i would like to continue with at least some of it during med school. also, one main goal is to come back to california (yup... CA hasn't shown me any love yet =(. oh and of course price should be a factor, but can you guys also give some feedback without taking into consideration cost also?

ah that was long, but thanks ahead of time!

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd pick the school that wasn't on probation... even without taking cost into consideration. This is pretty much a no-brainer once you look at the finances though.

 

[student1799]

OP, I live in NYC, and I've interviewed at GW (no decision yet) but not Downstate--I applied but they rejected me. You can decide for yourself whether that makes me biased.

If you can handle the extra cost, I'd go with GW. Based on what I've heard about Downstate, you'll have a higher-quality experience at GW, and it has a large number of Cali students to boot. Yes, they're on probation, but IMO that means GW will be making a lot of improvements in the near future, and trying hard to make students happy. That could actually be a good thing for you.

I've read a very large number of comments on Downstate, including the AMSA surveys. I was struck by how often people mentioned that the facilities were run-down; a couple of people said they thought the anatomy lab was the only nice facility they had, and that the rest of the place seemed like a dump. There were some especially bitter comments on AMSA: "most people are ******ed"; "if I'd known, I would have gone anywhere else, including the Caribbean". But more germane to you, another respondent said the school was little-known outside the Northeast, which could hurt you if you want a residency in CA.

Downstate's big (and possibly only) selling point is the clinical experience you can get at Kings County, and I'll grant you that it's definitely an attraction. But is that worth all the other negatives?

And BTW, I wouldn't really call Flatbush "the city." You're a good 45-minute subway ride from things like good restaurants, bars and entertainment.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think GW is going to give you a huge edge in getting into a CA residency. Its national reputation isn't significantly different from Downstate IMO and I don't think the level of education/training you receive at either would be significantly different. The cost difference, though, is pretty high (quick back of the envelope calculation shows about ~100k difference in cost. I was advocating USC over SUNY-Buffalo and while I'd probably still advocate USC over SUNY-Downstate, although not as hard because of location with a similar difference in cost, but GW isn't materially a better school than Downstate, IMO, certainly not enough to justify ~100k difference in costs.

 

[tacrum43]

OP, if you have acceptances to both, I would sit on them for now. (Congrats by the way).

Once you know the estimated budget for both, you might be able to squeeze some more financial aid from GW if you write and say you prefer GW, except for the cost. Supposedly, the university has increased the amount of institutional aid available because of the economy, so maybe they'll be able to help you out.

I don't know how Downstate is for research, but GW has some good opportunities. GW is no Johns Hopkins, but there is the research track and being in the DC area is good for a lot of research projects.

Or maybe you'll get into another school that you prefer and it won't be an issue at all. 👍

P.S. They're working on the probation thing and it should be fixed entirely by next February. In the long run, it probably will benefit students and the school as a whole. There's already more student lounge space now.

 

[eyang22286]

hm, interesting take on the probation topic. but i heard it was mostly administrative though..

 

[drizzt3117]

OP, if you have acceptances to both, I would sit on them for now. (Congrats by the way).

Once you know the estimated budget for both, you might be able to squeeze some more financial aid from GW if you write and say you prefer GW, except for the cost. Supposedly, the university has increased the amount of institutional aid available because of the economy, so maybe they'll be able to help you out.

I don't know how Downstate is for research, but GW has some good opportunities. GW is no Johns Hopkins, but there is the research track and being in the DC area is good for a lot of research projects.

Or maybe you'll get into another school that you prefer and it won't be an issue at all. 👍

P.S. They're working on the probation thing and it should be fixed entirely by next February. In the long run, it probably will benefit students and the school as a whole. There's already more student lounge space now.

What was up with the thing with the rotting cadaver and/or students being berated by faculty/staff unprofessionally etc? Was it just that one guy with an axe to grind? The details seemed pretty lurid.

 

[tacrum43]

What was up with the thing with the rotting cadaver and/or students being berated by faculty/staff unprofessionally etc? Was it just that one guy with an axe to grind? The details seemed pretty lurid.

I really have no idea about how true or untrue the MRSA infection from a cadaver thing is. There is a lawsuit though. One rumor going around my class is that the student was booted out for inappropriate contact (with a live person that is). I have never heard of another case at the school where this has been an issue, and the whole thing seems unlikely to me.

The probation thing was mostly about administrative things (like how course objectives were worded, making sure all the attendings have proper faculty appointment paperwork, etc.) but there was also an issue of work hours and student lounge space. I can tell you personally that they've already cut back on hours for 3rd and 4th years to the 80 hour rule and have turned the whole second floor of the library into a lounge. And the LCME has accepted GW's plan to address their concerns. So, it should go away pretty soon.

edit: Oh, and I don't know about the whole students being berated thing. There are a few attendings infamous for it, but the vast majority have been good in my own experience. Apparently a lot of this was based on the way former GW students answered exit questionnaires, and the wording was ambiguous at times. For example, asking students if they felt that their work hours were excessive. Well who wouldn't say yes to that, even if you are working a little less than 80 hours in a week?

 

[drizzt3117]

I really have no idea about how true or untrue the MRSA infection from a cadaver thing is. There is a lawsuit though. One rumor going around my class is that the student was booted out for inappropriate contact (with a live person that is). I have never heard of another case at the school where this has been an issue, and the whole thing seems unlikely to me.

The probation thing was mostly about administrative things (like how course objectives were worded, making sure all the attendings have proper faculty appointment paperwork, etc.) but there was also an issue of work hours and student lounge space. I can tell you personally that they've already cut back on hours for 3rd and 4th years to the 80 hour rule and have turned the whole second floor of the library into a lounge. And the LCME has accepted GW's plan to address their concerns. So, it should go away pretty soon.

Thanks for your reply, I didn't know how much of that story was believable or if the concerns voiced there were real or not. My cousin is on a WL for GW so hopefully they do end up improving from it and she gets in and loves it 🙂

 

[BoneMachine]

Considering its reputation, I imagine that in the end this probation issue will ultimately improve the overall quality of education available at GW. As a matter of fact, the school had 14,000+ applicants this year, despite being on probation.

 

[drizzt3117]

Considering its reputation, I imagine that in the end this probation issue will ultimately improve the overall quality of education available at GW. As a matter of fact, the school had 14,000+ applicants this year, despite being on probation.

I don't think the probation issue has anything to do with the number of applicants. I think the average stats of accepted students has a lot more to do with the applicants than anything else.

This isn't relevant in this case because the OP is already accepted, but IIRC the biggest problem with applying to GW is that a big portion of their class is taken up by BS/MD and linkage students, whose GPAs and MCAT scores (they need 9 on each section to pass) are counted in the averages for accepted students, bringing the average down, and making average applicants feel like they have a better chance at getting in. $115 (is that what it costs now) x 14000 is a decent amount of money!

 

[pietachok]

I don't think the probation issue has anything to do with the number of applicants. I think the average stats of accepted students has a lot more to do with the applicants than anything else.

This isn't relevant in this case because the OP is already accepted, but IIRC the biggest problem with applying to GW is that a big portion of their class is taken up by BS/MD and linkage students, whose GPAs and MCAT scores (they need 9 on each section to pass) are counted in the averages for accepted students, bringing the average down, and making average applicants feel like they have a better chance at getting in. $115 (is that what it costs now) x 14000 is a decent amount of money!

I can't comment on GW, but I've known a lot of unhappy students at Downstate. I have done coursework there, and have heard you really have to pester professors for any attention/help/info outside of class. The area it's in isn't horribly removed from Manhattan, but it's not exactly in the most ideal spot of NYC...depending on where you chose to live, you could live in a great location (and possibly never get to utilize it) and have an awful commute, or live near school and have a pretty blah locale.

If I had that choice, and didn't have a significant other in Manhattan, I'd probably pick GW, if, as you say, you got a good vibe from it. I get nothing but mediocre vibes from Downstate...except for the price. I don't take GW's probation too seriously. Their students, profs, etc. won't let that go on without a big sqwak.

 

[Dr Roboto]

I guess it's time Downstate got represented...

I can't comment on GW, but I've known a lot of unhappy students at Downstate.

I haven't exactly done research on this but I'd be willing to bet that those unhappy folks used DS as a backup when they applied and it was the one school they got into. If they're so unhappy, maybe they should've reapplied.

I had one other acceptance and two waitlists when I got my acceptance from DS. It was my first choice for many reasons. I withdrew from everywhere else within a day and haven't looked back. I knew the pros and cons of DS and I knew what I was getting into. I love DS. Can things be improved? Of course. Things are changing and I'm pretty excited for the incoming MS1.

I have done coursework there, and have heard you really have to pester professors for any attention/help/info outside of class.

I can't speak for the other health science programs but that is totally not the case for MS1 so far. We have a course discussion board for questions and it's always monitored, even the night before an exam there are professors answering questions. I've received answers to emails in a timely fashion. I know some folks have scheduled office time with professors to discuss course material or studying habits. I don't know how else they can be more attentive.

If I had that choice, and didn't have a significant other in Manhattan, I'd probably pick GW, if, as you say, you got a good vibe from it. I get nothing but mediocre vibes from Downstate...except for the price. I don't take GW's probation too seriously. Their students, profs, etc. won't let that go on without a big sqwak.

I applaud the OP for doing some research and asking the questions. If only every pre-med were like you. In the end, it's your decision and you have to live with it. But even then, if all you have is your gut telling you to go with GW, then go with GW. Med school is only four years long. A majority of us will go through a residency longer than that. And in the grand scheme of things, what's four years of med school compared to the decades you'll spend practicing medicine. We can't all go to Ivy League med schools with their fancy five star cafeteria, but that doesn't mean we should complain ad nauseam about how our med schools don't have a five star cafeteria. Sometimes I think people complain for the sake of complaining. The secret to med school is to work hard and you can do that at any med school. Good luck.

 

[sberryto]

I am in this EXACT situation... ugh sooooooooo frustrating... GW and Downstate are so very different each has its pros and cons... and like eyang22286 i dont want my decision to be based solely on money. As an undergrad student i sacrificed attending my dream school Duke to go to SUNY stony brook because of financial difficulties. ANd now I've been waitlisted to Duke :-/ ... i wont find out whether im off the waitlist till May 15th and I have to make a decision by then... I just dont know what to do :-/ i thought this would be the easy part... i mean we got into med school... twice over... oh sidebar im in at Penn State it was a bit too rural for me so i kind of ruled it out... should I still consider it? I am open to any suggestions and comments... I'm so stressed i feel like just flipping a coin. Heads or Tails people? Heads or Tails?

 

[bornready]

I am in this EXACT situation... ugh sooooooooo frustrating... GW and Downstate are so very different each has its pros and cons... and like eyang22286 i dont want my decision to be based solely on money. As an undergrad student i sacrificed attending my dream school Duke to go to SUNY stony brook because of financial difficulties. ANd now I've been waitlisted to Duke :-/ ... i wont find out whether im off the waitlist till May 15th and I have to make a decision by then... I just dont know what to do :-/ i thought this would be the easy part... i mean we got into med school... twice over... oh sidebar im in at Penn State it was a bit too rural for me so i kind of ruled it out... should I still consider it? I am open to any suggestions and comments... I'm so stressed i feel like just flipping a coin. Heads or Tails people? Heads or Tails?

You do not have to give up your Duke waitlist by May 15th, but you would have to pick between GW, Downstate, and Penn State by then.

 

[ny skindoc]

OP, I live in NYC, and I've interviewed at GW (no decision yet) but not Downstate--I applied but they rejected me. You can decide for yourself whether that makes me biased.

If you can handle the extra cost, I'd go with GW. Based on what I've heard about Downstate, you'll have a higher-quality experience at GW, and it has a large number of Cali students to boot. Yes, they're on probation, but IMO that means GW will be making a lot of improvements in the near future, and trying hard to make students happy. That could actually be a good thing for you.

I've read a very large number of comments on Downstate, including the AMSA surveys. I was struck by how often people mentioned that the facilities were run-down; a couple of people said they thought the anatomy lab was the only nice facility they had, and that the rest of the place seemed like a dump. There were some especially bitter comments on AMSA: "most people are ******ed"; "if I'd known, I would have gone anywhere else, including the Caribbean". But more germane to you, another respondent said the school was little-known outside the Northeast, which could hurt you if you want a residency in CA.

Downstate's big (and possibly only) selling point is the clinical experience you can get at Kings County, and I'll grant you that it's definitely an attraction. But is that worth all the other negatives?

And BTW, I wouldn't really call Flatbush "the city." You're a good 45-minute subway ride from things like good restaurants, bars and entertainment.

I would be very cautious in evaluating anonymous statements on old websites.There are disgruntled students at every med school and those are usually the ones who like to post.
There are good neighbourhoods not far Downstate, Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights which are very popular and have great restaurants.
As far as having a reputation outside the northeast I would suggest looking at their match lists posted on their website.It looks like many great matches nationally including top places in CA. http://sls.downstate.edu/student_affairs/residency/index.html