Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, Yale... help

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School?

  • Harvard

    Votes: 36 17.9%

  • Johns Hopkins

    Votes: 14 7.0%

  • Yale

    Votes: 13 6.5%

  • Wash U St. Louis

    Votes: 138 68.7%
  • Total voters
    201
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MathGirl25

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Hi,

Since this thread is now just people insulting each other, I've removed my posts. Please continue to insult me elsewhere 🙂

Thanks
 
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For what it's worth it looks like WashU is the obvious choice.
And it does have name recognition nationally and (less extent) internationally.
Also 24 isn't that non-trad, so unless you have a very old face I guarantee you no one will even notice.
And free?! Close to husband?! You'd be crazy to pick anything else!

Congratulations on all your hard work and I hope everything goes well for you.
 
You hate Boston, don't do that to yourself for another 4 years. You used "terrible," "hate," "hate," annnnnnd "hate" in the amount of space a tweet would take. You don't just hate it, you hate the environs, so don't go there.

You honestly sound like you're more considering Yale and WashU, really, and the hard to get to thing is less a problem than you think since it seems like you wouldn't want to fly, anyway. Free tuition plus a fellowship is a really sweet deal.

ETA: Oh, I just noticed the husband thing. Wash U.
 
FWIW, I ran into many HMS grads during residency interviews at several points in their training. I will simply say to temper the whole "it's Harvard" sentiment. A lot of those folks really did not have positive things to say about their alma mater.

Based on what you wrote, WashU seems like the obvious choice. Don't undervalue the importance of graduating with substantially less debt if given the choice. In your case, all of your options are excellent. The idea that you will somehow be closing doors at WashU vs. Harvard vs. Yale vs. Hopkins is a joke. I don't think the huge difference in cost to attend WashU vs. any of the other schools is worth whatever differences there might be.

Congratulations, and recognize that no matter what choice you make you cannot make a wrong decision. Don't overthink it.
 
MathGirl25 said:
Harvard:
Pros: it's Harvard
Cons: new curriculum looks terrible, I hate Boston, I hate Harvard, Boston's expensive, I really should have applied to HST instead of Pathways, I hate airplanes, did I mention I hate Boston/Harvard?
Click to expand...
Why in the world would you consider going here when your other options are Yale, Hopkins, and WashU?
 
It seems like Yale and WashU is your top two choices. WashU allows you to be debt free and has a better fit to your personal life. IMO, these are probably more important than prestige.
 
Sounds like you want to go to WashU.

Fact of the matter is that there's little difference in how those names are perceived in the academic community. You already have Harvard on your resume, so most ordinary people will be wowed by that already. You don't sound like you have any want of being a harvard lifer so don't do it to yourself. You have a great spot in the midwest, will have no debt, and there's a great medical education and training in the midwest. You don't have to leave if you don't want to. You have a lot of family there including your husband, so this is clearly what you want to do...

Regarding what you have to explain to the average person... does it matter? You know what you're getting, anyone that you work with in the future knows where you come from, etc... Explaining it to a few people during med school isn't really a big deal.

Not to mention your debt will be mostly COL... That's pretty freaking huge.

I've honestly never seen a more clear 'where should I go' thread.
 
Wash U hands down. You're only 24, not 34 or something, so I think itl be really easy to fit in with the traditional students. I'm traditional at a different school and half my friends took a year or more out from college
 
Go where you'd be happy. From what I read, that sounds like WashU. Hating Boston/Harvard should automatically cross it off the list. Is a name really worth more unhappiness?

24 isn't very non-trad either, so I wouldn't say you'd be out of place. 😉
 
2 people voted for Harvard despite OP's comments?

upset-jaguars-fan.gif
 
First, the general foundation:

#1 Congratulations on your acceptances. It takes a strong application to get multiple top acceptances.
#2 How well you do in medical school is largely predicated on how you will interact with the school and how well the environment matches you. You are far more likely to have trouble with school, or have trouble excelling if you are miserable.
#3 Each of those schools will offer the same advantages in residency matching. They will offer their own region support, for example, if you were specifically looking for a residency in the northeast, then Harvard/Yale will have better connections to help you there, but if you are applying across the country, they are all functionally equivalent.
#4 Living your life as, "How do I explain why I live my life the way that I do?" is going to be stressful and pointless.

Advice:

Wash U is the clear cut answer based on the information you have provided.
- 24 is 2 years above the 'traditional' age, I'm not up on the current average age, but my guess it that it is right about 24
- Wash U is extremely well recognized within medicine and well recognized nationally and internationally as an undergrad. Does it have the reputation stemming back to the 1700s that HMS and Yale have? No. But, you will not be hurt by this in any way shape or form.
- There are plenty of people that go to Wash U over Harvard and Yale. They are people who have other things going on in their life than just academics. They are people with a realistic view of finances, they are people with family constraints. They are people that dislike Boston/the East Coast etc.

In summary? I have personally spent a lot of time at both Wash U and Harvard, they are both fantastic schools. I have family either attending or teaching at both currently. You should go to the school that will allow you to prosper the best. That means fitting into the system and maximizing your potential. It means being closer to family. It means having less financial headaches. Once again, based on the information you have provided, Wash U is the clear cut choice and it is not even close.
 
Go to Wash U

... and also

MathGirl25 said:
Hopkins:
Pros: it's Hopkins, curriculum looks decent but don't like that I can't stream lectures, my favorite favorite sister might be in DC for my M2-M4 years
Cons: Baltimore == The Wire???, hate flying, expensive: about $10k more per year than Harvard or Yale, about $20k more per year than WashU
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🙄
 
mimelim said:
Legit question, TV gets it right sometimes, I mean I went into surgery because of Grey's Anatomy and it is exactly the same!



not srs





okay sorta srs



😉
Click to expand...

Sooooooo many things to say here, so many things to say.
1 - Who was your "don't tell anyone, just put this Silvadene on my rear, which I burned while hooking up in the furnace room" buddy?
2 - Is Jesse Williams as awesome a doctor as he is a teacher, activist, and actor?
3 - Did your pregnancy go okay after the wreck?
 
Just wanted to say congrats OP. That is an amazing predicament you are dealing with. Go with WashU!
 
The only way I can relate to this thread...My P.I. is from WashU and he is an amazing down to earth guy. LOL

Anyway, the average age of matriculants is starting to rise to 23 and pretty soon will be 24. You won't be the oddball. I sense a good vibe from WashU because you will most likely be happiest there. Avoid the debt, avoid the planes, avoid boston/Harvard, and go to WashU!

Congrats!
 
FriendlyFH said:
Or there are 4 people on the waitlist of Yale/WashU/Hopkins.
Click to expand...
Yes! Or maybe even one person with four accounts, I am always suspicious of that. I demand a recount.

Argh, now it is five for Harvard. Another possibility emerges: Trolling.
 
breakintheroof said:
Yes! Or maybe even one person with four accounts, I am always suspicious of that. I demand a recount.

Argh, now it is five for Harvard. Another possibility emerges: Trolling.
Click to expand...

But... but... it's Harvard! :singing::singing::singing::singing: (a mini-quartet)

In all seriousness, just by evaluating all the pros and cons in OP's list makes it clear as day that OP wants to go to WashU.
 
This is such an easy decision: Wash U.

  • First, 24 is not non-traditional. If anything taking a year or two off is more normal these days.
  • Second, who the heck cares about explaining to someone out of the loop the merits of Wash U? You know it is a fantastic school. Everyone reading this post knows it is. Do not live your life concerned about what other people think.
  • Third, your tuition is FREE. And considering you are married I assume that your husband works and can pick up most of your cost of living tab. Hence you could essentially graduate 100% DEBT FREE.
Do not over think this decision. Pick Wash U and call it a day.
 
Obligatory disclosure that I am on the waitlist at Hopkins.

A couple of thoughts regarding your pros/cons:
1. Kick butt on Step 1 - all of these schools have strong enough curriculums and avg board scores that you really can't go wrong.
2. Based on your pros/cons for Harvard, it shouldn't be a contender anymore. I don't know if there's more to your list than that, but "it's Harvard" doesn't balance out "did I mention I hate Boston/Harvard?"
3. Yale - in my humble opinion, I don't know if those are really strong cons. "Hard to get to" shouldn't be a major issue, considering that you probably won't be doing a ton of traveling to and from New Haven (unless you're doing a long-distance relationship or you have a family situation that requires constant visitations). Instead, given your career interests, I would be wary of their match efficacy - I have heard anectdotal (n=1) sentiments from residency directors at large/respected programs that confess that Yale doesn't provide as strong a clinical education or experience in surgical specialties as, say, Hopkins or WashU. [Harvard also has very strong surgery depts.]
4. Don't worry about convincing people that WashU is the right decision. If you matriculate there, they will understand once you get your match placement 😛
 
Hi,

Since this thread is now just people insulting each other, I've removed my posts. Please continue to insult me elsewhere 🙂

Thanks
 
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Choose WashU, be happy, and don't look back. As said before, you already have Harvard on the CV and WashU seems pretty freakin awesome.
 
breakintheroof said:
I demand a recount.

Argh, now it is five for Harvard. Another possibility emerges: Trolling.
Click to expand...
People are voting for Harvard because they think it's ridiculous that she even listed it as a choice when her only pro was "it's Harvard." Mind you, her con for Harvard was that she hates Harvard and Boston... so how was that ever a pro to begin with? Going to another top ten school instead of Harvard will not hurt the op in the sightless. OP should have the common sense to know that but sometimes I think I expect too much out of people...
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hey everyone!

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback - you're all REALLY helpful and thinking of things I hadn't even thought of yet!!!!! 🙂

I really did want to kick Harvard off my list, I just feel like the general sentiment of "NO ONE turns down Harvard blah blah" was too strong, so thank you for proving me wrong 🙂

A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...
I would think it matters in residency a lot more than as a student. You would still have excellent surgery rotations as a student at WashU
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hey everyone!

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback - you're all REALLY helpful and thinking of things I hadn't even thought of yet!!!!! 🙂

I really did want to kick Harvard off my list, I just feel like the general sentiment of "NO ONE turns down Harvard blah blah" was too strong, so thank you for proving me wrong 🙂

A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Barnes Jewish is still a top 10 hospital. I don' think there is much drop off between JHU and Barnes Jewish.
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hey everyone!

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback - you're all REALLY helpful and thinking of things I hadn't even thought of yet!!!!! 🙂

I really did want to kick Harvard off my list, I just feel like the general sentiment of "NO ONE turns down Harvard blah blah" was too strong, so thank you for proving me wrong 🙂

A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how you can make the claim that BJC is not a 'nationally acclaimed center' given that it is one of the "top" hospitals in the country. Not that it is particularly relevant for medical school anyways.
 
MathGirl25 said:
A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...
I can only speak with mild authority on neurological and orthopaedic surgery, having spoken to residency directors and physicians in those areas regarding strong institutions and medical education programs. That being said, the Barnes Jewish Hospital (and the research that goes on there) is easily one of the strongest in the country. Hopkins may have more name recognition outside of heath care professionals, but not within. I think, amongst physicians, Barnes Jewish is definitely nationally acclaimed, considering its easily one of the best of the midwest.

In fact, not that these rankings mean much of anything, but doximity's new "residency rankings" places WashU/Barnes Jewish in the top 10 for almost all surgical specialties.

EDIT: But that's not to say JH isn't strong (I realized that it was possible to construe my comments as putting down JH). It's just BJH is definitely strong too.
 
You say that WashU has poor name recognition. That may be true with the general population, depending on the region of the country. However, it is my understanding that the name has great recognition with anyone whose opinion really matters--the people who will be considering you for residency positions or those who will be hiring you once you're a physician.
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hi all,


Yale:
Pros: Love the Yale system, curriculum looks ok
Cons: Hard to get to (no major airport plus I hate flying), not as highly ranked as other schools

WashU:
Pros: FREE TUITION and I have a fellowship that has a special name so it looks good on my resume, it's in the midwest and I'm a very midwestern person, curriculum is good, research and flexibility with MD/PhD hugely emphasized, St.Louis is only a 6-8 hour drive to my husband and my entire extended family, cost of living in St.Louis is low
Cons: very few non-trad students matriculate here so I would be "out of place", no name recognition nationally/internationally, always having to explain to everyone that I don't live in Seattle, who the hell goes to WashU when they can go to Harvard

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yep, you're definitely a hahvahd grad.
 
OP I think you are grossly underestimating the reputation/caliber of WashU/BJC. To say Barnes is not a nationally acclaimed center is a laughable notion.
 
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MathGirl25 said:
A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...

Just guessing really, but I'd say that for your medical school degree, probably NOT a big deal. For residency -- more relevant
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hey everyone!

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback - you're all REALLY helpful and thinking of things I hadn't even thought of yet!!!!! 🙂

I really did want to kick Harvard off my list, I just feel like the general sentiment of "NO ONE turns down Harvard blah blah" was too strong, so thank you for proving me wrong 🙂

A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...

Barnes Jewish is an excellent hospital.

No offense, but I get the sense that you are putting way too much weight on perceived "prestige" than is necessary. You haven't even completed 1 minute of medical school and you are concerned about your ability to match in a particular specialty. Slow down. If you are a strong student you will have absolutely zero problem matching anywhere. Thinking that the hospital affiliated with your medical school matters one iota in your residency application is a complete farce, especially with the options you have. There's is essentially no calculable difference between them.

You're seriously overthinking this decision. You're going to make a poor choice if these are the things you're worried about. Given your options it simply isn't going to matter.
 
I disagree with other posters; I do not think you're placing emphasis on the wrong things. I think that feeling a strong allegiance to the hospital at which you will train should be a factor in your decision making. You should make your decision based on the factors YOU feel are important; at the end of the day, having YOUR decision align with what YOU think is important will make you a happier student and happier student = better life.

That being said, I would resist reducing this decision to simply Hospital A vs Hospital B, or name recognition of school A vs name recognition of school B. Any of these schools CAN get you to where you want to be in 4 years. So there's gotta be other factors weighing into your thought process.
 
Congratulations on your acceptances OP. Don't make the same mistake that you made for undergrad. It seems very clear to me that your heart is set on WashU, but that you feel that the name recognition factor of the other three trump any positive feelings you might have about it. You also said you are making this thread because you know no one else who has experience with the medical world. I think it would be wise to listen to the many people here who do have plenty of experience with the medical world telling you that the differences in name recognition between any of these schools is negligible. If you want to be able to WOW random people by saying you went to Harvard Med while making your life what will think will be a living hell, then go to Harvard. If you want to go to an absolute top-tier medical school for free with everything you could possibly want (including research opportunities, residency placement, FREE TUITION, near family), then go to WashU and don't look back. You have been afforded a tremendous opportunity and you know what direction you want to take. I think that you are looking to have your feelings validated (or tempered) by external input and there's nothing wrong with that, as long as the advice you're soliciting is not what makes the final decision. You have your information. Now it is time for you to make the choice.
 
What a situation to be in. Congratulations. First of all, just want to say that Baltimore does NOT = the wire, it's actually a great up-and-coming city with a lot of awesome things to offer, although it does have its bad neighborhoods and struggles. That said, it sounds like WashU is where you need to go. For full tuition at one of the best schools in America, you would be foolish to not take it.
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hey everyone!

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback - you're all REALLY helpful and thinking of things I hadn't even thought of yet!!!!! 🙂

I really did want to kick Harvard off my list, I just feel like the general sentiment of "NO ONE turns down Harvard blah blah" was too strong, so thank you for proving me wrong 🙂

A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?
Click to expand...

There's always away rotations. Also I'm not sure where you're getting that BJC isn't great...
 
MathGirl25 said:
Hi all,
Hopkins:
Pros: it's Hopkins, curriculum looks decent but don't like that I can't stream lectures, my favorite favorite sister might be in DC for my M2-M4 years
Cons: Baltimore == The Wire???, hate flying, expensive: about $10k more per year than Harvard or Yale, about $20k more per year than WashU
Click to expand...

I agree with the WashU consensus. Medical school is hard and having a strong support network is extremely important to your personal and professional success. Clearly, you will have the strongest network at WashU.

However, Baltimore is not like The Wire, lol. I've honestly never had a problem around JHH and the high-crime areas are pretty well known. Follow basic rules of common sense and you'll be fine.
 
I just saw your MDAPPS. Is WashU only tuition? Does it end up being the same in amount as the other aid offers you've received?

Congrats again. You had an incredible cycle.
 
I know I'm going to take heat for posting this but here goes.

If reputation matters that much then here are the latest data from US News (not that I put much weight on these). I think something like only 20% respond to these surveys but nonetheless it may help you validate the fact that WashU is as much a top program as anywhere else. (I think it would be extremely unwise to let a .2-.3 difference in arbitrary and sparse survey responses sway your decision. lol )

Again, congrats on your wonderful options! I know you'll make the right choice!!

Peer score/residency director score (out of 5)

#6 WashU- 4.5/4.5

#3 Hopkins-4.8/4.7

#1 Harvard-4.8/4.7

#7 Yale- 4.2/4.2

#5 Penn-4.5/4.5

#8 Columbia-4.3/4.5
 
@MathGirl25 In your MDApps, this is your Summary of Application Experience:
I'm pretty much in shock - thought I'd get rejected everywhere this cycle, was already studying for 2015 MCAT!!!
Click to expand...
Okay. Let's set aside the fact that you were insecure about applying with a 3.90/3.93 from Harvard and a 42 MCAT. What's more important is that your MCAT wouldn't even be close to expired by next cycle!

I think that I understand a bit better now. I would like to gently suggest the possibility that you find it hard to make an objective assessment of where you stand. In that case, it was good you came here, and I hope that the replies have helped clear things up. Have fun in St. Louis!

(Or maybe Ann Arbor, but probably St. Louis.)
 
breakintheroof said:
@MathGirl25 In your MDApps, this is your Summary of Application Experience:

Okay. Let's set aside the fact that you were insecure about applying with a 3.90/3.93 from Harvard and a 42 MCAT. What's more important is that your MCAT wouldn't even be close to expired by next cycle!

I think that I understand a bit better now. I would like to gently suggest the possibility that you find it hard to make an objective assessment of where you stand. In that case, it was good you came here, and I hope that the replies have helped clear things up. Have fun in St. Louis!

(Or maybe Ann Arbor, but probably St. Louis.)
Click to expand...
Well, I was quite insecure as well. Last year there was a guy with 40+ MCAT/4.0 GPA applying from my college. 14 interviews--->mostly rejection. a few waitlist--->1 acceptance off waitlist at Commonwealth. I went into the cycle really thought that I stood no chance...
 
FriendlyFH said:
Well, I was quite insecure as well. Last year there was a guy with 40+ MCAT/4.0 GPA applying from my college. 14 interviews--->mostly rejection. a few waitlist--->1 acceptance off waitlist at Commonwealth. I went into the cycle really thought that I stood no chance...
Click to expand...
Insecurity I understand (and have certainly shared) with this unpredictable process. But actively planning to retake the MCAT that answers life, the universe and everything...a bit much if you ask me!
 
breakintheroof said:
Insecurity I understand (and have certainly shared) with this unpredictable process. But actively planning to retake the MCAT that answers life, the universe and everything...a bit much if you ask me!
Click to expand...
You nailed it.
 
Congrats OP! Have fun at WashU!

I also come from an environment free of doctors or any other kind of professionals. The schools I went to had relatively name recognition in those circles, but guess what? As a medical professional you will be moving in a different circle- one where people absolutely know about WashU and recognize it as the great school it is. John Doe at the corner mart might not know where it is, but does that really matter??

Also, free tuition to any med school, let alone one of that caliber is not something to throw away lightly.
 
So you had an amazing cycle for sure. Why aren't Michigan, Northwestern and UMN under consideration? You'll get a great education at all of those, and I think being closer than 8 hours to your husband might be nice. As amazing as WashU is, and I definitely echo everyone else in saying that sounds like the best opportunity for you among the four schools listed, 8 hours away from your husband will be huge.
 
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