Harvard HST vs. CCLCM

[_dogdog]

Incredibly lucky to be in this position! Curious to hear what you all would do.

Harvard HST
Pros

• Felt like I connected with the students here the most
• Amazing research focus, endless opportunities
• Prestige
• Boston is pretty great
• Want to end up practicing in the Northeast
• Engineering and technology focus

Cons

• Cost (not anticipating much aid at all, likely 200K+)

Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine
Pros

• Full-tuition scholarship (no debt)
• Rotations at the Cleveland Clinic
• Great research availability
• No grades, no tests

Cons

• Cleveland is pretty unfortunate
• Less well known
• Mandatory research year
• Pretty much entirely PBL

Summary: Both amazing institutions, both will likely open similar doors... a very difficult decision.

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[libertyyne]

Difficult decision, what specialties are you interested in ?

 

[_dogdog]

A surgical specialty (currently looking at general, orthopedic, vascular).

 

[libertyyne]

The only reason I asked was training duration plus ibr/pslf might make the financial difference smaller ultimately.
The mandatory research year can also be thought of as a year reduced in attending earnings.
Difficult decision,I would personally do Harvard.

 

[enchantediris]

What is your ideal clinical to research breakdown? During my interviews, it seemed that CCLCM veered toward 20:80 research/clinical, whereas HST was closer to 80:20. I also got the impression that CCLCM had a higher emphasis on clinical research, whereas HST had more of an emphasis on bench research. I believe that HST is also almost all PBL, so the curriculum comes out as a wash for me.

Here are some thoughts I had because I was pondering the same question (although I was ultimately rejected from HST so I don't have to make that decision! 😛)

HST Pros

• prestige is important if you want to end up as a tippy-top physician scientist (affiliation with Harvard and MIT)
• if you want to end up in Boston as a practicing physician, the easiest way to do so is go to HMS and land a Harvard residency
• I also love Boston! It's a great place. You don't need a car to get around (I don't like driving, so this was a pro for me.)

CCLCM Pros

• If you want your own lab (R01s, PI, etc.) then it may be better for you financially to go the tuition-free route. One interviewer I had at HST was in his 40's, landed an R01, but was still moonlighting to help pay off student loans. Physician scientists that veer toward the research side also make less money than pure clinical physicians.
• individualized attention -- you'll have your own faculty mentor as well as much more attention from faculty because there will only be 32 people in your class
• easy to gain a master's at Case Western with 3-4 extra classes (this was of interest for me because I'm interested in bioinformatics)

All in all I think you can't go wrong either way. You may just wait for the financial aid from HMS to come through to see if you're pleasantly surprised?

 

[scienceguy95]

I think HST and CCLCM have slightly different goals. CCLCM is definitely geared toward producing primarily physicians who are good investigators. Do you see yourself focusing more on research (especially basic science)? If so, I would lean toward HST, as the breadth of basic science opportunities in Boston is going to be hard to beat anywhere.

If, on the other hand, you want to be primarily a clinician who also does research, CCLCM is a great option. Honestly, paying full price for HST doesn’t seem worth it if you have an offer from CCLCM anyway, but obviously your personal happiness is important. While CCLCM is certainly not as well known to the public as Harvard Med, the Cleveland Clinic itself is at the same level as Harvard in medicine specifically.

Also, I think Harvard has MORE PBLs than CCLCM. You spend more time in seminars (small lectures) in CCLCM per week than you do in PBLs.

 

[Kingsmen2018]

U get into harvard you have to go. Thats law. Try to leverage ur scholarship from lerner to see if harvard can give u some more aid.

 

[carrots28]

CCLCM is more clinical research and more like 1/2 pbl with the rest being seminars just with a small group of people. A lot of research heavy programs encourage an additional year for example a yale student said to me that the majority do a fifth year anyway as it is very common. If you want to do a very competitive specialty you might end up doing one anyway.

 

[_dogdog]

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful responses! It seems that enchantediris and scienceguy95 have different views about the schools' respective missions... I am more interested in a 20:80 clinical:research split, and basic science/ engineering research is much more in my wheelhouse (which would potentially point to HST). Pathways is indeed PBL-focused, but HST does have a lot more lecture (as stated by current students during my interview day).

 

[3toedsloth]

Ortho attending salary is $500k+. That is more than your entire cost of attendance for four years. Losing a year of that salary for research versus paying for med school... it's basically a wash from a financial perspective.

Gain that extra year back, get the Harvard name that will stick with you through your entire career.