Harvard MD-Phd as an affiliate

[randomguyfromluna]

Applied to MD ( Pathways, HST) and MSTP at Harvard. Got admitted to MD - Pathways. Got into few other Tier2 schools such as Duke for the MD-Phd program with full funding. I always wanted to do MD-Phd because of my interest in research.

The rejection letter from MSTP said "If you matriculate at Harvard Medical School and maintain your commitment to pursuing a PhD, we invite you to consider joining the MD-PhD program as an affiliate, a status that allows you to participate fully in our MD-PhD student activities, including our personalized administrative support, educational forums, social events, and clinical- and research-based advising systems, among many other special features of our multidisciplinary program. Although we cannot guarantee you funding to start your MD-PhD training, you should know that the PhD years are essentially fully-funded by the PhD program with tuition, fees, and a stipend provided. HST students are able to conduct research assistantships that provide partial support during the first two years of medical school. Other students may also be eligible to apply for special fellowships that provide funding for medical and/or graduate education. For students whose goal is to pursue dual degree training, our program provides help in applying for these individual fellowships. Finally, depending on the availability of funds, we offer full or partial financial support for the last two years of medical school for non-MSTP students who affiliate with the Harvard/MIT MD-PhD program (a group that represents ~40% of our MD-PhD student body!). Therefore, although we cannot guarantee funding, we hope you will consider such alternative financial strategies for pursuing your career with us. Here at Harvard/MIT, we take care of our affiliated MD-PhD students. As full members of our community, affiliates are indistinguishable from our MSTP-supported students in terms of our program's personalized focus and the students' remarkable successes and achievements. "

Anyone familiar with being an affiliate member for the MD-PhD program at Harvard ? What are the chances for funding for PhD years ? Research assistantships ( partial funding) or fellowships for the first 2 years of medical school ?

Any information on the funding situation for the affiliate program is much appreciated.

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[solitude]

Bad idea unless you are independently wealthy. Take the fully funded programs and run. The debt, even if it just two years of med school, will come back to haunt you and may limit your willingness/ability to pursue an academic career by the time you are done training in your mid to late 30s.

 

[InactiveLurker]

1) Duke MSTP is a second tier? LOL
2) MSTP > MD if you set on becoming PI one distant distant day.

 

[Dwan]

If Duke's a tier 2 school, my school must be like tier 30.

 

[randomguyfromluna]

1) Duke MSTP is a second tier? LOL
2) MSTP > MD if you set on becoming PI one distant distant day.

Thanks. When i said Duke was Tier2 i thought i was merely using the classification by someone in SDN where they had listed Harvard, Yale, UCSF, Columbia as Tier 1 . Vandy, Duke, WashU, Baylor etc as tier2 but i get your point.

 

[Lucca]

Thanks. When i said Duke was Tier2 i thought i was merely using the classification by someone in SDN where they had listed Harvard, Yale, UCSF, Columbia as Tier 1 . Vandy, Duke, WashU, Baylor etc as tier2 but i get your point.

Yah that post was uh not accurate.

If I were in your shoes I would pick the fully funded program unless I had some other way to pay for the first year of the MD and was very confident that I could obtain MD/PhD funding in the second year. Even then, one would have to consider the hazards of that decision.

 

[randomguyfromluna]

ok guys - i was wrong in calling Duke as tier2 . But, if you had admission to both Duke and Harvard the same program wouldn't you pick Harvard in that sense isn't Duke a grade below Harvard. Ok, just to be clear i don't want to debate my poorly worded OP - i was looking for answers on the Harvard's MD-PHd affiliate progam and funding. That is all

 

[bluelamin]

ok guys - i was wrong in calling Duke as tier2 . But, if you had admission to both Duke and Harvard the same program wouldn't you pick Harvard in that sense isn't Duke a grade below Harvard. Ok, just to be clear i don't want to debate my poorly worded OP - i was looking for answers on the Harvard's MD-PHd affiliate progam and funding. That is all

i would say go for harvard. you can only go to 1 med school after all. the OP said that you'll get funding for ur phd years anyways. sure u might have to take a loan for med school...but then again...you wont be the first to be doing so.

 

[sammyers_sm]

Echoing the message that most others have said, I would go with the fully funded with the caveat of personal wealth.

I think the bigger question here is for your specific research interests, support systems, and location preferences, which is a better fit for you? Other then the prestige, is there something specifically drawing you to Harvard that would warrant the debt you’d incur? I’m not sure what the case is since you haven’t really mentioned anything else above besides the funding. Questions to consider!

 

[TurtleGnome]

ok guys - i was wrong in calling Duke as tier2 . But, if you had admission to both Duke and Harvard the same program wouldn't you pick Harvard in that sense isn't Duke a grade below Harvard. Ok, just to be clear i don't want to debate my poorly worded OP - i was looking for answers on the Harvard's MD-PHd affiliate progam and funding. That is all

I would not. As said before me, consider why you would choose Harvard over Duke. I have heard things regarding Harvard’s MD/PhD time to graduation being higher than other top notch schools. You have to consider how many mentors are there you’d want to work for, cost of living, class dynamic, etc. MD/PHD is a long haul; you want to be happy. Looking at this thread, it seems to me you are looking for confirmation by others that you should do this. If you really want it, go for it, and don’t worry about what the rest of us think. Good luck!

 

[Neuronix]

I would not waste my money on an unfunded program. If you're really that wealthy invest the money and retire sooner or use it to give yourself more flexibility later in your career when it will matter more.

 

[dl2dp2]

Jesus Christ 40% of Harvard md phds are “affiliates” now? I wonder if this is gonna turn into a trend.

I suspect most of that 40% also had a MSTP and decided to turn it down. So either way you wouldn’t be the only one.

I’ll tell you though, having been in this game for a lot longer than most on this, the value of a Harvard MD is overrated by premeds. Since we are at this point, I’m assuming the financial aspect is not very relevant. Then I think the main disadvantage of Harvard, especially program of this type where integration is low, is
1) the program tends to be longer. I suspect 2 years is not unusual
2) the Boston biomedical complex is a lot deeper, and people more frequently feel like they are drowning. Competition is much more extreme. Institutional support is a lot worse. This may not be as noticeable at the student level, but gets gradually worse as time goes on. Of course if you are a superstar you might do better in Boston than Durham. But of course that’s what every trainee thinks
3) people end up in other alternative careers more frequently

Out of pure statistical measure, I’m not sure at this point Harvard has a better track record to turn people into R01 based PIs (as opposed to say dermatologists). However, I would argue that a lot of the best trainees no longer go in that direction. If you want to go to Boston and stay in Boston paying for the MD is just the start. The faculty salary series is typically a 40%+ cut from national average. With no hard money.

Ultimately this is a personal decision and there’s no right answer.

 

[TurtleGnome]

Jesus Christ 40% of Harvard md phds are “affiliates” now? I wonder if this is gonna turn into a trend.

I doubt it. Harvard does it because they know people will still do it to say they went to Harvard.

 

[Fencer]

I have heard this several times. It decreases their "institutional" contribution (not paying for MS1/2) while they still claim them as MSTP graduates and not having attrition for those 2 years because they are not yet in the MSTP (in the affiliate program). The "butterfly" effect for the prettiest flower....

In my view, what helps the most to a clinician-scientist is not a great MSTP school, but an outstanding & prestigious PSTP in their area of expertise. That is the launching pad to a faculty career. If you could get a K99/R00 DURING your PSTP, then you have true leverage for first FACULTY (the grant travels with you). That is when the environment of your postdoc/fellowship provides the butterfly effect for your future faculty colleagues.

 

[Neuronix]

I know a guy who did a 13 year Harvard/MIT combined MD/PhD program. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[TheSecondMouse]

I have heard this several times. It decreases their "institutional" contribution (not paying for MS1/2) while they still claim them as MSTP graduates and not having attrition for those 2 years because they are not yet in the MSTP (in the affiliate program). The "butterfly" effect for the prettiest flower....

In my view, what helps the most to a clinician-scientist is not a great MSTP school, but an outstanding & prestigious PSTP in their area of expertise. That is the launching pad to a faculty career. If you could get a K99/R00 DURING your PSTP, then you have true leverage for first FACULTY (the grant travels with you). That is when the environment of your postdoc/fellowship provides the butterfly effect for your future faculty colleagues.

I'm a bit confused about the difference between these two things. Is a PSTP after your medical degree? Is an MD/PhD not worth it?

 

[Fencer]

Most students in PSTPs are MD/PhD graduates. Absolutely, the MD/PhD degree is worth it. The point that I was making is that residency/fellowship, and in particular fellowship, is when the specific institution that you attended matters. For example, for Oncology, there are 4 major cancer institutes for fellowship training: MD Anderson, Sloan Kettering, Dana Farber, and Fred Hutchinson. You have an edge for attending those places for oncology-related fellowship (or PSTP). The point that I was making is that even lower-tier MSTPs allow you to position yourself to get into those places. The institution of the MSTP training matters a bit less...