Harvard (Most of Tuiton) vs NYU (Full COA)

[Dogruffle01]

Hello,

I have finally concluded my cycle and it has been awesome to say the least. I have narrowed down my choices to Harvard and NYU. There are several factors impacting my decision, so I'll list them out in order of importance.

• Matching into Derm - I've never truly felt the calling towards medicine. While I was in college I liked the field a lot, and knew that I didn't have much interest for other career options. I shadowed 10+ specialties in the OR, floors, private practice, and I got to see most of my career possibilities. No other specialty really stood out to me as super awesome, except one. When I shadowed Derm I had that first heart flutter. Just the lifestyle, type of people, day in life, types of cases, entrepreneurship capacity, and residency stood out to me. I could give a 15 minuted version of why I like it but I'll leave it at that. I want to go to a med school that will maximize my chances to match Derm. The common retort I hear is "No where is gonna guarantee the match, and it's up to the student". I understand this, and will do everything in my power to get good grades, do research, etc; however, knowing it will be an uphill climb I want to go to a school that will make "the gradient less steep". I also want to match in the midwest or south. From my limited sources, people say even though Derm is hyper competitive, that I should have a somewhat easier time wanting to go to places that are undesirable to most other people. *Side note* - A dermatologist at NYU has contacted me and offered to help me with research and to be a mentor for the upcoming year, they say if I stick it out my application could be promising for the 3-year med program, but words are just words atm. I know people always say that 50% of medical students change their mind on their specialty, but I've never been one to really go back and forth once a big decision is made in my head, and I think I have enough experience in other specialties to feel confident.
• Money - I had a 0 EFC all throughout college, and due to working 30+ hours a week at a decent job my EFC is now non zero. I'm foreseeing spending around $6000 at Harvard and my fiancee will be covering living expenses. NYU is obviously a good school and is free, but $6000 is not crazy and will be paid off in less than 6 months as an attending.
• The wifey - She's the love of my life, we've been together since we were 16. If she told me to quit medicine today you would never see me on this forum ever again. Thankfully, she would never do that. She's currently a teacher, but wanting to be an interior designer (eventually 3-4 years). Both Boston and NYC are good for that, and whatever she does I'm ok with.
• Outside Interest- Pre-med never truly was my life, and I had other hobbies. I love scary movies and want to eventually venture into screenwriting - NYU would be an awesome place for this. On the other hand, I also looooove stocks and finance, and am not opposed to an extra year at HBS.

Now to the Pros and Cons list

Harvard ( 50k total debt +/- 10k)

Pros:
- Grading! :True P/F for pre-clinical and clerkship is a dub. That would make the stress associated with coming in 30 extra minutes early to surgery, or memorizing the small detail for a pimping question fade away. In order to match Derm I would have to only 1) Do research (I'm really not trying to brag, but I like research a lot. I have 8 pubs in a separate field) 2) Get good grades in my Sub-Is 3) Do good on Step 2. It's still hard, but the road is easier than other schools.
- Matching : 12 Students matched Derm last year, which is just insane. When I asked my interviewer about matching for Derm, she laughed at me and said " This is Harvard, you will match into whatever you want".
- Outside schools : HBS is great, and I think the tech industry surrounding Boston would really augment my other skills, I could potentially join a start-up on the side.
- Research : Both schools have S tier resources, and honestly I think either place I'll have my fill.
- Prestige : This one is sorta weird for me. I have negative desire to go into academics. I plan to practice in the semi-rural midwest or south after everything is said and done. Excessive prestige doesn't hurt me, but I'll probably do some away rotations at a midwest hospital and I think having the Harvard name will help me match a lot. I have never seen my dad cry in my life, until I got this acceptance. That just hits different. My grandmother who has Alzheimer's has forgotten my name, but she still knows what Harvard is.
- Fiancee job- I think becoming a teacher in Boston is slightly easier than in NYC. I may be mistaken, either way it pays more.

Cons:
Mandatory Preclinicals: Its a drag and kinda inefficient being there 8-5, but if I get bored I can always just do something else on my laptop. It's a negative but definitely not a dealbreaker.
Aid: I'm a broke boy. 50k is a lot more than -90k debt, but my undergrad was free and I would venture to say a Harvard education is worth 50,000.


NYU (0 debt 20k stipend)

Pros:
Money - Graduating from medical school debt free in all capacities would be legendary. Me and my fiancee currently live very comfortably on 80k combined in a slightly lower area of COA. We could continue this lifestyle in NYC.
Matching: A Derm professor has already reached out to me, and is looking to build a connection pre-matriculation. I am down for research and this would be the better option if I could guarantee acceptance into the 3-year program next year, but this is not certain.
Vibe-check Based on the pre-matriculation meetings I've gone to, the faculty seem very welcoming and nice. I know this doesn't necessarily dictate how all the faculty is though.
Class Attendance: All lectures are recorded and exams are every 2 weeks. ( I suck at listening to lectures in person, I used to listen to my undergrad lectures on my daily run)
Fiancee- Neither of us are done much research on the interior design scene, but it may be easier for her to break into this industry. Regardless, she may not even want to do this job.

Cons:
Grading: NYU has AOA and clerkship grading (see below on my philosophy of this), so these could be potential pitfalls to my matching process. The curriculum director said they could rank us if they wanted to, but they wouldn't, this seems suuuper sketch to me. Also, I don't think they are truly P/F preclincally because if you are top X% on preclinical exams it is used as a component for AOA selection.

The NYU dean of admission said that they stuck with graded clinicals for our benefit. Here is my current thinking on the subject. :

As someone trying to get into a competitive specialty, it is to my advantage for residency directors to guess if I'm a good applicant. Due to the Halo Effect, if I come from a good school they are going to assume that I am a good all around student, especially if I have several publications and leadership experience. If I end up getting passes in clerkships then that hurts my application. When a school is pass/ fail that benchmark to get honors evaporates. In a school where they constantly have good students coupled with the inherent subjectivity of clerkship grading I am at a disadvantage to get honors in clerkships and having my application look confirmed worse vs going to a school where I passed all my clerkships and PDs have to assume I would've done worse. I know I'm somewhat smart, but I also acknowledge at schools like these, there are people who 1) are most definitely standard deviations more intelligent that me and 2) are willing to go several sleepless nights in order to outwork me.

Please tell me if there is a flaw in my reasoning, I am very open to the communities perspective.

Thank you in advanced for your help.

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[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Honestly, a lotttaaa words to read there haha. I read for like 2 minutes and then stopped.

That being said, Harvard all the way imo. 50k is nothing in the grand scheme of things, especially on a Derm salary. Both are amazing choices, so congrats on that, but Harvard is one of one.

 

[orangestar9]

I can tell you're leaning Harvard, and for that price, you will be entirely set. Congrats on everything - been great to see your success on a lot of these threads!!!

 

[obiwan]

Harvard

 

[passion8premed]

HUGE congrats! all in all, harvard seems to be the better option for you. i am sure you will find immense success no matter where you choose to attend 🙂

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Harvard. Congrats on the great acceptances. I can’t see turning down Harvard for 50k.

But just to clarify, HBS isn’t really near HMS geographically. Also, Based on what I’ve heard from friends at both schools, there isn’t much interaction between medical and bschool students unless you do a dual degree.

Outside of the classroom, students at the respective schools have dramatically different lifestyles due to the money saved up and expected future earnings of HBS students compared to medical students and doctors. So most of the time, they won’t be at the same restaurants, nightlife (if that’s your thing), apartments, etc.

 

[Dogruffle01]

Harvard. Congrats on the great acceptances. I can’t see turning down Harvard for 50k.

But just to clarify, HBS isn’t really near HMS geographically. Also, Based on what I’ve heard from friends at both schools, there isn’t much interaction between medical and bschool students unless you do a dual degree.

Outside of the classroom, students at the respective schools have dramatically different lifestyles due to the money saved up and expected future earnings of HBS students compared to medical students and doctors. So most of the time, they won’t be at the same restaurants, nightlife (if that’s your thing), apartments, etc.

I would be doing the dual degree. Probably taking a year off for the MBA.

 

[chilly_md]

Congratulations! This is truly amazing.

I will also say that Harvard is the way to go. There’s something special about that and it’s worth paying the little bit each year for that opportunity.

 

[Dr Meow]

I came here just to see everyone's reaction to a harvard.

Congrats!

 

[bonedoc5576]

I'm biased toward NYU, but in your case it makes perfect sense to choose Harvard.
Congrats at achieving the pinnacle of premed achievement...now you are at basecamp!
best of luck

 

[crimson-cat]

Go Harvard. The name does wonders for matching into whatever, there's plenty of derm mentorship programs/opportunities, and if you *gasp* decide you have other major non-medicine interests it's worrisomely easy to find gigs in other competitive fields with the network

 

[Dogruffle01]

Ended up getting the REACH Scholarship!! We're going to Boston!

 

[crimson-cat]

Go NYU

 

[Dogruffle01]

Go NYU

Ummm you changed your mind?

 

[DZ2106]

Idk whether the reach scholarship covers the rest of the debt, but if I'm reading the stipend right, that means the difference is 130k between these two schools? Is that correct?

In that case, NYU is a pretty solid option. The Harvard name doesn't really matter all that much to you it seems, since you wanna practice in the Midwest. So, does it really matter if you do T5 derm or "just" T10/20 derm? We are talking about the current #2 med school here.

Personally, there doesn't seem to be enough at Harvard to justify 130k for me. But hey, I get it. It's Harvard and it's cheap. You REALLY can't go wrong either way so why not just follow your heart man?

 

[Dogruffle01]

Idk whether the reach scholarship covers the rest of the debt, but if I'm reading the stipend right, that means the difference is 130k between these two schools? Is that correct?

In that case, NYU is a pretty solid option. The Harvard name doesn't really matter all that much to you it seems, since you wanna practice in the Midwest. So, does it really matter if you do T5 derm or "just" T10/20 derm? We are talking about the current #2 med school here.

Personally, there doesn't seem to be enough at Harvard to justify 130k for me. But hey, I get it. It's Harvard and it's cheap. You REALLY can't go wrong either way so why not just follow your heart man?

Yea, honestly I want to just optimize my chance of matching Derm at a midwest school without taking a research year.

The stipend is 11k a year and my fiancé is covering the rest of the living expenses so COA at Harvard will be nearly 0!

 

[throwaway01564]

Idk whether the reach scholarship covers the rest of the debt, but if I'm reading the stipend right, that means the difference is 130k between these two schools? Is that correct?

In that case, NYU is a pretty solid option. The Harvard name doesn't really matter all that much to you it seems, since you wanna practice in the Midwest. So, does it really matter if you do T5 derm or "just" T10/20 derm? We are talking about the current #2 med school here.

Personally, there doesn't seem to be enough at Harvard to justify 130k for me. But hey, I get it. It's Harvard and it's cheap. You REALLY can't go wrong either way so why not just follow your heart man?

Originally OP thought they'd have to take 50k total (not 130k), but with the Reach, total CoA at harvard can be 0-30k depending on how frugal you can be or if you have other support. So in this case Harvard would 100% be worth it over NYU, and would even be worth it at 50k since no one really views NYU as #2 over places like Hopkins, UCSF, etc.

 

[DZ2106]

Yea, honestly I want to just optimize my chance of matching Derm at a midwest school without taking a research year.

The stipend is 11k a year and my fiancé is covering the rest of the living expenses so COA at Harvard will be nearly 0!

Originally OP thought they'd have to take 50k total (not 130k), but with the Reach, total CoA at harvard can be 0-30k depending on how frugal you can be or if you have other support. So in this case Harvard would 100% be worth it over NYU, and would even be worth it at 50k since no one really views NYU as #2 over places like Hopkins, UCSF, etc.

I just figured since we're talking about T5s that the difference you will experience (even if wanting to match derm) is kinda negligible unless you're big on biotech or something. Just my 2 cents.

But yea 100% if the cost is similar, then absolutely pick Harvard.

 

[inoffensivepersona]

Originally OP thought they'd have to take 50k total (not 130k), but with the Reach, total CoA at harvard can be 0-30k depending on how frugal you can be or if you have other support. So in this case Harvard would 100% be worth it over NYU, and would even be worth it at 50k since no one really views NYU as #2 over places like Hopkins, UCSF, etc.

Who says that no one views it as #2. And even if they don’t, who cares? I feel like the cost differential makes NYU a place for the OP to seriously consider along with Harvard, though for all intents and purposes, the costs are relatively similar. If they love Harvard, they should go there. If not, NYU is a great school, especially if they don’t have to pay for it. It’s also definitely a more interesting location than Boston.

Elitism seems kinda useless as this point when we’re comparing some of the best med schools in the country.

 

[inoffensivepersona]

I just figured since we're talking about T5s that the difference you will experience (even if wanting to match derm) is kinda negligible unless you're big on biotech or something. Just my 2 cents.

But yea 100% if the cost is similar, then absolutely pick Harvard.

I really think it’s based on perceptions. Like if you absolutely loved Harvard, you should definitely go there (I’m assuming you are). If you like NYU, then it’s a great place to go. I don’t think finances should factor in unless they’re super important and there’s a substantial difference.

Like I had narrowed my choices down to UCLA and UCSF. UCLA has given me a full ride Geffen Scholarship and I was, therefore, leaning towards it. But then UCSF gave me almost as much money (maybe 5-10k less over four years) as UCLA, so now I feel pretty set on UCSF. Not because of UCSF’s rank, but because I like their vibe a lot better. If you can take away the financial aspect, then the decision becomes a lot easier and you can make it pretty easily.