Harvard or Penn?

[enghead]

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I am trying to decide between these two schools, and would appreciate your honest opinions! I've seen a bunch of harvard vs ____ threads lately but none directly comparing these two colleges only. Here's my current evaluation of the two:

Penn

Pros
1. Cheaper: I have a dean's scholarship, so the cost of attending Penn for 4 years is ~$67,000 cheaper than 4 years at Harvard
2. Familiarity, family: I grew up in philly and would be close to family and old friends
3. Weather: it's a little nicer than Boston, but still cold at times (i don't like the cold)

Cons
1. Grading system: not pass/fail, meaning higher stress levels. I have a friend who is currently a D1 at Penn and he says the curriculum there is kicking his butt.


Harvard

Pros
1. Pass/fail grading: as stress free as dental school curriculums can get. Also, the small class size should give students more individual attention should I actually need help.
2. Reputation: Harvard is harvard, and even though the dental world may put Penn on equal level as Harvard, I tend to think that the general public like a Harvard name drop more than a Penn one.I'm also interested in specializing and it would be nice to have the name, even though Penn's name is almost as good in terms of matching students into specialty programs.

Cons
1. Costs more (total 4 yr cost approx 67k more)
2. Farther from home
3. Research requirement: I've done research before and wouldn't have a problem doing a thesis in dental school, but it is a potential downside if I encounter issues with the research
4. Weather: I dislike the cold. It's tolerable, but disliked.
5. Class size: this is both a pro and a con. I think having a smaller class size is great for indiviual attention, but may limit some of the diversity in the class. I'm Asian, and do enjoy being in the company of other asians (not exclusively, but would like a good proportion)

Please let me know your thoughts! Can anyone give me their ideas about which they'd pick and why?

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

I am trying to decide between these two schools, and would appreciate your honest opinions! I've seen a bunch of harvard vs ____ threads lately but none directly comparing these two colleges only. Here's my current evaluation of the two:

Penn

Pros
1. Cheaper: I have a dean's scholarship, so the cost of attending Penn for 4 years is ~$67,000 cheaper than 4 years at Harvard
2. Familiarity, family: I grew up in philly and would be close to family and old friends
3. Weather: it's a little nicer than Boston, but still cold at times (i don't like the cold)

Cons
1. Grading system: not pass/fail, meaning higher stress levels. I have a friend who is currently a D1 at Penn and he says the curriculum there is kicking his butt.


Harvard

Pros
1. Pass/fail grading: as stress free as dental school curriculums can get. Also, the small class size should give students more individual attention should I actually need help.
2. Reputation: Harvard is harvard, and even though the dental world may put Penn on equal level as Harvard, I tend to think that the general public like a Harvard name drop more than a Penn one.I'm also interested in specializing and it would be nice to have the name, even though Penn's name is almost as good in terms of matching students into specialty programs.

Cons
1. Costs more (total 4 yr cost approx 67k more)
2. Farther from home
3. Research requirement: I've done research before and wouldn't have a problem doing a thesis in dental school, but it is a potential downside if I encounter issues with the research
4. Weather: I dislike the cold. It's tolerable, but disliked.
5. Class size: this is both a pro and a con. I think having a smaller class size is great for indiviual attention, but may limit some of the diversity in the class. I'm Asian, and do enjoy being in the company of other asians (not exclusively, but would like a good proportion)

Please let me know your thoughts! Can anyone give me their ideas about which they'd pick and why?

You have 5 cons for Harvard and 1 for Penn. Penn is cheaper and you can't put a price on familiarity. Penn is going to have a lot of Asians. Penn is less cold and the city is nice. Pass/fail might look nice now but how do you know you won't be busting ass just to pass? I say go to Penn 👍

 

[MoralDecay]

Penn only ranks their top 10. That's not much pressure, since everyone else is essentially #11. Go to Penn for your DMD then go to Harvard for a specialty program; that way, you're always "moving up".

 

[UltimateHombre]

If Penn is 70K cheaper.... this is a no brainer.

Both will offer you a great education, with plenty of opportunities to specialize.

 

[HeyCharlie]

All four votes for Penn (and postings as well) are people who are on the wait list at Harvard lol.

 

[kamepan]

I would say Harvard. WOW what an opportunity!

Chances are, when you drop the H-bomb, you will get into any specialty program afterwards, including Penn's. Then again, I assume that you must be a really great student to have gotten into both (esp Harvard), so if you can, being at the top of Penn will allow you to match to a specialty program for sure...maybe even Harvard's... but then again, maybe not ;] I bet the other way is more likely. Plus, no way they'd let any of their students get a fail, esp when there are like 35 of you to take care of.

If money is a huge factor, then take it into account...I did...I just didn't see my other option as being that much better, for that much money. But the name of Harvard weighs so heavily...

 

[humbody77]

i'm not going to tell you which school to pick, but i wanted to let you know my own process of choosing HSDM, because i feel like that might be helpful to hear other people who were in the same/similar boat. and because if i had posted to sdn asking for an opinion i would have sounded just like you.

I was choosing between UCSF and Harvard, but i still feel like this might help because our situations are similar:
SF is more familiar to me (I've been in school/working in berkeley for the past 4.5 years, and my boyfriend and his family are in the bay area)
SF gave me a regent's scholarship that would leave me with a 67k difference between the schools

so why did i choose HSDM over SF?
my impression when i went to HSDM was that this was going to be a dental education unlike any other. Because there's only 35 students i felt like there was actually 35 different programs, each person I met there had such different experiences and paths at HSDM. and it seemed like no door was closed to you because of all the opportunities they have available and the opportunities that you can make for yourself. Also, because i've spent most of my life on the west coast i feel like this would be a great time/opportunity in my life to live on the east coast. to be honest i love it here in california, and i'm pretty sure i want to end up here, but if there were a time to try a new city it would be when we're young and have school as a reason right? (i didn't get the impression that you're 50 and married with kids) the thing is that i'm so excited about this new (and scary) experience of dental school that being in a new city where i'm so far from the familiar seems like the perfect fit/timing.

your one con about Penn is that it's a graded system. in my mind that's a pretty big con. and although both SF and HSDM are both on a P/F system, I did rank both schools higher than other schools that were graded or even H/P/F. this is because i think P/F will be not only less stressful but will also allow me more opportunities to do all the extracurricular things that will help me 1) figure out which specialty i want to do and 2) prepare me to match with my top-choice for a specialty program

there is nothing wrong with SF or Penn, they are both great schools that everyone would be lucky to get an amazing education at. but i just felt like HSDM fit perfectly with what i am looking for in my dental education and experience. to be honest 67k didn't justify not choosing the school i felt would benefit me the most educationally and personally.

a few comments:
- do you remember what your tour guides told you about the research requirement? it's not as hugely emphasized SDN seems to think. really, just one summer of research (whatever you want to make of it. one of my tour guides mentioned she was going to the Himalayas to take saliva samples or something)
- i can't comment on the weather because the northeast as a whole just sounds ridiculously cold compared to california
- i can't directly compare penn and harvard because i got rejected early (in november) without an interview. this might have to do with the fact i turned in the supplemental 2.5 months after my AADSAS was complete. but i guess my level of interest was pretty obvious.
- also! i'm asian too, so if you choose HSDM then you won't be alone

to be honest it sounds like you might have already chosen Penn, but I hope this helps you figure out for sure what school best fits you. good luck and congratulations on having such a tough decision!

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Its kind of hard for me to be on a waitlist since I'm already in dental school. So my opinion was completely unbiased and based on OPs reasoning.

Don't you guys feel like you're exaggerating Harvard a little too much? I mean, you make it sound like its the only place you can go if you want to do amazing research or change the world. Just because its Harvard doesn't mean you have to go.

 

[Jackson-Ave-Dental]

SDN mirrors the real world.

The current hot topic is the 99% vs the 1%

 

[BU2012]

I've only seen the Penn campus from outside, but I like the Longwood area of Harvard much more. However, you will be very grateful for saving 70,000 by going to Penn (cheaper cost of living as well?). I was accepted to Harvard this cycle too, but I won't be attending. I chose a much less "prestigious" school I know would give me much better clinical education, but mainly a school where I thought I would be happiest for the next 4 years. If your primary consideration for Harvard is the name, you will regret that decision.

 

[Durtis]

Take the money 😉 Penn is a great school

 

[385835]

That asian part is racist.

 

[Hawk5]

That asian part is racist.

Haha, that is borderline, isn't it?

 

[SupDanLOL]

That asian part is racist.

Yea, maybe. I think it just makes him/her sound sheltered.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

That asian part is racist.

Haha, that is borderline, isn't it?

Not really, the majority of Asians just like hanging out with other Asians. Sometimes it's easier to socialize with people if you've been through all the same things in life. It's easier going out to eat and finding things to do as well. With the exception of some, I'm willing to bet the majority of friends in your life are the same race as you.

 

[Spartan21]

You have 5 cons for Harvard and 1 for Penn. Penn is cheaper and you can't put a price on familiarity. Penn is going to have a lot of Asians. Penn is less cold and the city is nice. Pass/fail might look nice now but how do you know you won't be busting ass just to pass? I say go to Penn 👍

👍 I vote Penn. Like AwesomeTeeth said, you have 5 cons for Harvard and 1 for Penn. I would love to have that dean's scholarship! Pick the school where you can see yourself being happy. Penn is up there as far as prestige goes and you will specialize if that's what you want.

 

[swimpolo]

Harvard

1. Pass/fail grading: as stress free as dental school curriculums can get. Also, the small class size should give students more individual attention should I actually need help.

5. Class size: this is both a pro and a con. I think having a smaller class size is great for indiviual attention, but may limit some of the diversity in the class. I'm Asian, and do enjoy being in the company of other asians (not exclusively, but would like a good proportion)

Here are my two cents about Penn vs. Harvard. The Harvard class size is one of the smallest amongst the dental schools. However, aren't the basic sciences taken with the students from the medical school? In that case, your "class size" for the first two years is in fact LARGER than Penn, as HMS has around 120 students per class year I'm pretty sure. At Penn on the other hand, the basic sciences are taught ONLY to the dental students, as they are not grouped together with the medical students. This is for the basic sciences at least. For clinical then Harvard would be smaller as you mentioned.

Additionally, think about your future in dentistry. Do you want to specialize? Penn also has a great rep for specialty matching, not just Harvard. However, with regards to class size, would you rather go to a dental school with 35 students per class year (Harvard) or 120 students per class year (UPenn) when it comes to referrals and networking? Penn's larger class size would suggest a larger alumni network, almost four times as large. Thus, referrals from your classmates who are general dentists AND specialists would be a HUGE plus for your career. Think about this. Your fellow Harvard classmates would only produce specialists on the other hand. Which general dentist is going to refer their patients to you if your school does not graduate any general dentists? Plus, 120 vs 35 ... 120 means more people, more classmates, more experiences, more everything. Further, specializing is still quite good at Penn to say the least. Plus its 70K cheaper for you no?

I'm having a similar dilemma with UCLA vs. Penn because I'm from LA. I applied to Harvard and honestly haven't heard from them yet, but if it was between Penn and Harvard I would pick Penn for the reasons here and for the same reasons you outlined above.

Either way, both schools will give you a great education and both have amazing reps. Good luck and we may or may not be classmates!

 

[Kobebucsfan]

"I'm Asian, and do enjoy being in the company of other asians (not exclusively, but would like a good proportion)"

LMAO

WTF

 

[enghead]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, especially Humbody77! A really thorough post that did strike closely with my own thought process.

I am currently siding with Penn because I don't think the reputation at Harvard is that much better than Penn among either the dental profession, specialty programs, or the general public. Most dentists I've shadowed can count the number of times a patient has asked them where they went to school on one hand. Therefore, I think it really does depend on whether or not I felt like I fit at either school, and whether or not the extra cost is worth it.

Anyone with more thoughts, keep em comin'!

 

[jackalo34]

Not really, the majority of Asians just like hanging out with other Asians. Sometimes it's easier to socialize with people if you've been through all the same things in life. It's easier going out to eat and finding things to do as well. With the exception of some, I'm willing to bet the majority of friends in your life are the same race as you.

I agree, but I’m the exception for sure. I’d love to go somewhere where there’s a nice range-not just all URM, which is the biggest reason I might not app to Howard 🙁

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Lastly, 68k isn't that big in the grand scheme of things or better yet, to sway your decision to a school that you wont be happy at. You are going into a field that will allow you to pay this back fairly easily. I cant imagine you not happy at either one though b/c there both great schools. However, how often is a person able to say they went to HARVARD?! You obviously were leaning toward Harvard at one point or another otherwise you wouldn't have asked this question. Put money aside, and then answer your own question again.

LMAO... seriously 70K is not that much in the "grand scheme of things". With interest that is an extra $1000 a month payment for the next 10 years, just for the Harvard name.

This is just so funny to me... predents always say happiness trumps money. Then the actual dentists, with real world experience, always stress going to the cheapest school.

If right now you had to choose between a UPenn diploma and 70K in your pocket vs a Harvard diploma... which would you choose, because that will be ultimately what you leave with.

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

.

 

[dantemac]

I would argue Penn is the better school for many reasons:
1) I know you think cold weather is cold weather, but Boston is going to be a lot colder and snowier in the winter. It's closer to the water.
2) It is cheaper for you.
3) Living is cheaper. Yes, Cambridge and other neighborhoods are a cheap (and lovely!!) part of Boston. It may not be manhattan prices, but it's more than Philly. Or, certain parts of Boston are just downright expensive.
4) More clinically diverse, better rotations and externships (can't beat the Philly hospital networks), and probably better clinical experience. I'm not 100% sure on this.
5) You are closer to home and your support network. Can't emphasize this enough.
6) The research is there, the NIH funding is there, etc.
7) You are on the undergrad campus. University City is lovely. Yeah, Cambridge is awesome too, but it's a stone's throw away. May not be make or break, but something to consider.
8) Great alumni network. By going to Penn, you are basically probably going to be invited back to teach at Penn (your instructors are their own!).
9) Less competition within the city. When I went to Tufts, we spent my whole interview talking about why not BU or Harvard. In Philly, you only have temple, and they're only like a decade or two removed from losing accreditation
10) Larger class size = better socialization. Yeah, we don't have med school classes, but you have lots of future dentists to meet.

 

[HeyCharlie]

I would argue Penn is the better school for many reasons:
1) I know you think cold weather is cold weather, but Boston is going to be a lot colder and snowier in the winter. It's closer to the water.
2) It is cheaper for you.
3) Living is cheaper. Yes, Cambridge and other neighborhoods are a cheap (and lovely!!) part of Boston. It may not be manhattan prices, but it's more than Philly. Or, certain parts of Boston are just downright expensive.
4) More clinically diverse, better rotations and externships (can't beat the Philly hospital networks), and probably better clinical experience. I'm not 100% sure on this.
5) You are closer to home and your support network. Can't emphasize this enough.
6) The research is there, the NIH funding is there, etc.
7) You are on the undergrad campus. University City is lovely. Yeah, Cambridge is awesome too, but it's a stone's throw away. May not be make or break, but something to consider.
8) Great alumni network. By going to Penn, you are basically probably going to be invited back to teach at Penn (your instructors are their own!).
9) Less competition within the city. When I went to Tufts, we spent my whole interview talking about why not BU or Harvard. In Philly, you only have temple, and they're only like a decade or two removed from losing accreditation
10) Larger class size = better socialization. Yeah, we don't have med school classes, but you have lots of future dentists to meet.

Interesting. Can you explain?

 

[dantemac]

It was a half-joke, there is a rumor going around (being circulated by some dentists I know even) that Temple lost their accreditation in the 90's briefly. Not sure if it's true or not.

 

[thewobblytooth]

penn! cheaper is better. I would have chosen penn, if not for michigan's dds/phd fellowship.

 

[txlonghorn]

I am trying to decide between these two schools, and would appreciate your honest opinions! I've seen a bunch of harvard vs ____ threads lately but none directly comparing these two colleges only. Here's my current evaluation of the two:

Penn

Pros
1. Cheaper: I have a dean's scholarship, so the cost of attending Penn for 4 years is ~$67,000 cheaper than 4 years at Harvard
2. Familiarity, family: I grew up in philly and would be close to family and old friends
3. Weather: it's a little nicer than Boston, but still cold at times (i don't like the cold)

Cons
1. Grading system: not pass/fail, meaning higher stress levels. I have a friend who is currently a D1 at Penn and he says the curriculum there is kicking his butt.


Harvard

Pros
1. Pass/fail grading: as stress free as dental school curriculums can get. Also, the small class size should give students more individual attention should I actually need help.
2. Reputation: Harvard is harvard, and even though the dental world may put Penn on equal level as Harvard, I tend to think that the general public like a Harvard name drop more than a Penn one.I'm also interested in specializing and it would be nice to have the name, even though Penn's name is almost as good in terms of matching students into specialty programs.

Cons
1. Costs more (total 4 yr cost approx 67k more)
I gave up going to my instate school in Texas. The costs suck, but I have no regrets coming here.
2. Farther from home
You will be pretty busy in school no matter where you go. Unless you plan on visting your family every weekend/sometimes per week, this should not matter. You can just catch a flight.
3. Research requirement: I've done research before and wouldn't have a problem doing a thesis in dental school, but it is a potential downside if I encounter issues with the research
The school is not research heavy at all. Yes, there is the one research requirement over summer 1, but you can do your research in anything that you are interested in. It doesn't have to be lab or clinical work. Some people are going abroad to assess the needs of the country, which equates to pretty much traveling on the school's dime.
4. Weather: I dislike the cold. It's tolerable, but disliked.
I am from Texas and I am still alive. Yes, it sucks at times, but it's not that bad.
5. Class size: this is both a pro and a con. I think having a smaller class size is great for indiviual attention, but may limit some of the diversity in the class. I'm Asian, and do enjoy being in the company of other asians (not exclusively, but would like a good proportion)
The class is around 200 if you include HST for the first two years. However, we don't see the HST kids that often, since they are off doing their own thing. For the first two years, you are pretty much a medical student, but you take a few more classes than they do.

Please let me know your thoughts! Can anyone give me their ideas about which they'd pick and why?

I have no idea about Penn, but so far I am just amazed by the awesome people here both in the dental school and medical school. Also, P/F lets you get away with not having to kill yourself over getting a high GPA and frees up time to do things that you are interested in. If it were my choice, I would come to HSDM.

 

[John Durian]

Penn ftw!!

 

[Dentatron]

I think txlonghorn makes great points. It looks like people that chose Harvard over X school do not regret it at one bit. If i was in your position, I would take HSDM because you know after 4 years you have virtually every option to further training open to you. Also pass/fail is huge and takes pressure and competition away. And lastly..you can say you studied at Harvard haha.

 

[longhornpride]

Harvard is top notch. With that said, keep in mind that you will pretty much be a med student at Harvard for the first two years. You'll do prostate exams and other stuff that I don't even think is necessary. You also don't do any preclinical work until the summer before your third year where they try to cram everything in an accelerated program. Can you imagine working on your first patient in August after only having a hand piece in your hand for 2 or 3 months. I cannot imagine the level of stress their students will have to go through that summer.

I personally would go to Penn. It's cheaper and has a great reputation as a clinical school.

 

[dantemac]

Harvard is top notch. With that said, keep in mind that you will pretty much be a med student at Harvard for the first two years. You'll do prostate exams and other stuff that I don't even think is necessary. You also don't do any preclinical work until the summer before your third year where they try to cram everything in an accelerated program. Can you imagine working on your first patient in August after only having a hand piece in your hand for 2 or 3 months. I cannot imagine the level of stress their students will have to go through that summer.

I personally would go to Penn. It's cheaper and has a great reputation as a clinical school.

Does it really though? Not sure.

 

[HeyCharlie]

Harvard is top notch. With that said, keep in mind that you will pretty much be a med student at Harvard for the first two years. You'll do prostate exams and other stuff that I don't even think is necessary. You also don't do any preclinical work until the summer before your third year where they try to cram everything in an accelerated program. Can you imagine working on your first patient in August after only having a hand piece in your hand for 2 or 3 months. I cannot imagine the level of stress their students will have to go through that summer.

I personally would go to Penn. It's cheaper and has a great reputation as a clinical school.

Penn is not a clinical school. Their clinical is average. There's a reason why 41 students from last year's graduating class decided to do a GPR. Add 6 more people to this number who opted for AEGD.

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

Penn is not a clinical school. Their clinical is average. There's a reason why 41 students from last year's graduating class decided to do a GPR. Add 6 more people to this number who opted for AEGD.

It's becoming more and more common to do a GPR for reasons such as improving chances to specialize and chances for associateship. Penn has excellent clinical education. You become a Dental Auxiliary beginning your first year.

 

[uclaDDS101]

I am trying to decide between these two schools, and would appreciate your honest opinions! I've seen a bunch of harvard vs ____ threads lately but none directly comparing these two colleges only. Here's my current evaluation of the two:

Penn

Pros
1. Cheaper: I have a dean's scholarship, so the cost of attending Penn for 4 years is ~$67,000 cheaper than 4 years at Harvard
2. Familiarity, family: I grew up in philly and would be close to family and old friends
3. Weather: it's a little nicer than Boston, but still cold at times (i don't like the cold)

Cons
1. Grading system: not pass/fail, meaning higher stress levels. I have a friend who is currently a D1 at Penn and he says the curriculum there is kicking his butt.


Harvard

Pros
1. Pass/fail grading: as stress free as dental school curriculums can get. Also, the small class size should give students more individual attention should I actually need help.
2. Reputation: Harvard is harvard, and even though the dental world may put Penn on equal level as Harvard, I tend to think that the general public like a Harvard name drop more than a Penn one.I'm also interested in specializing and it would be nice to have the name, even though Penn's name is almost as good in terms of matching students into specialty programs.

Cons
1. Costs more (total 4 yr cost approx 67k more)
2. Farther from home
3. Research requirement: I've done research before and wouldn't have a problem doing a thesis in dental school, but it is a potential downside if I encounter issues with the research
4. Weather: I dislike the cold. It's tolerable, but disliked.
5. Class size: this is both a pro and a con. I think having a smaller class size is great for indiviual attention, but may limit some of the diversity in the class. I'm Asian, and do enjoy being in the company of other asians (not exclusively, but would like a good proportion)

Please let me know your thoughts! Can anyone give me their ideas about which they'd pick and why?

According to your con list for HSDM, I'm assuming that I didn't lead your tour at the interview. I usually clarify points #3 and #5 during the tour. In short, the "research requirement" is a really great opportunity and is rarely seen as a negative by HSDM students retrospectively. And the class size situation is actually pretty ideal, since we have the benefits of both a large (~200; med + dent) and small (~35) class size. Thus, go to Harvard. But don't go because of pro #2.

 

[longhornpride]

Does it really though? Not sure.

I really don't know about Penn. Just assuming from what I've read here. Since I'm in Boston, I've mingled with plenty of Harvard and Tufts students, so I have an decent idea of what their experience is like.

I also agree with the person that doing a GPR or AEGD is very common these days. I plan on doing one mainly so that I can increase my speed, learn how to do more complex cases, and just increase my knowledge all around. Hopefully it will translate to better associateship opportunities.

Anyways, both schools are great. You really can't go wrong.

 

[MoralDecay]

Penn is not a clinical school. Their clinical is average. There's a reason why 41 students from last year's graduating class decided to do a GPR. Add 6 more people to this number who opted for AEGD.

Where are you getting your information from? Penn is very much a clinically-oriented school: it has one of the highest NERB pass rates for the NERB states...

Also, opting to do a GPR does not necessarily mean you feel ill-prepared to practice. Many go into these programs because it's guaranteed money, just in case you can't find an associate position right after graduation.

 

[frd88]

Come to penn! That's where I'm going, I didn't get into harvard, but I think I would still choose penn over it.

 

[dantemac]

Come to penn! That's where I'm going, I didn't get into harvard, but I think I would still choose penn over it.

Haha this is along my lines of reasoning too...

 

[HeyCharlie]

It's becoming more and more common to do a GPR for reasons such as improving chances to specialize and chances for associateship. Penn has excellent clinical education. You become a Dental Auxiliary beginning your first year.

What's so great about Dental Auxiliary in the first year?? You'll be doing suction and cleaning up trays and chairs. Big deal.

 

[MoralDecay]

What's so great about Dental Auxiliary in the first year?? You'll be doing suction and cleaning up trays and chairs. Big deal.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you think that's all a Dental Auxiliary does, then you need to clock some major assisting hours before you apply to dental school. Spending 2 years as a DAU/EFDA before you transition into clinic is a major advantage: you will (or at least should) know how most procedures work, which instruments do what, how to place a rubber dam (you'd be surprised how many D3s without assisting experience can't do something as simple as this), which clamps to use, how to take an X-ray, how to do impressions, how to pour up, etc. The former dental assistants/hygienists, who are now dental students, at the school I work for are infinite light years ahead of the rest when it comes to clinic. Just like nurses schooling new doctors fresh out of med school, dental assistants will show you how ill-prepared you are for the real world after dental school, if you only get 2 years of clinical experience.

 

[dantemac]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you think that's all a Dental Auxiliary does, then you need to clock some major assisting hours before you apply to dental school. Spending 2 years as a DAU/EFDA before you transition into clinic is a major advantage: you will (or at least should) know how most procedures work, which instruments do what, how to place a rubber dam (you'd be surprised how many D3s without assisting experience can't do something as simple as this), which clamps to use, how to take an X-ray, how to do impressions, how to pour up, etc. The former dental assistants/hygienists, who are now dental students, at the school I work for are infinite light years ahead of the rest when it comes to clinic. Just like nurses schooling new doctors fresh out of med school, dental assistants will show you how ill-prepared you are for the real world after dental school, if you only get 2 years of clinical experience.

I interviewed with Dr. sheridan, the woman who pioneered this, and it seems very helpful. However, I know lots of PA dentist (mostly Temple dentists, coincidentally) who say Penn dentists can't even fill a class I amalgam filling for ****. I'm not exactly sold on whether Penn is or isn't a great clinical school.

 

[MoralDecay]

I interviewed with Dr. sheridan, the woman who pioneered this, and it seems very helpful. However, I know lots of PA dentist (mostly Temple dentists, coincidentally) who say Penn dentists can't even fill a class I amalgam filling for ****. I'm not exactly sold on whether Penn is or isn't a great clinical school.

Yep, I've spoken to both Penn and Temple alumni, and both rarely have anything nice to say about each other: Temple says Penn dentists can't tell the difference from the discoid end from the cleoid end, Penn says Temple students can't tell the difference between their cranium and their rectum. That's the result of being two dental schools in the same city. People have their pre-conceived notions about Temple only being strong clincally, and Penn only being strong didactically; but, at the end of the day, Temple's NDBE pass rates are fine, and Penn's NERB pass rates are excellent. Numbers don't lie, and ignorance is stupid.

 

[Timpson]

This is the same thing with USC and UCLA. The thing is, UCLA is beating us because their tuition is cheaper. I think USC trains better real world, private practice dentists, but in the end it doesn't matter. People will always choose the cheaper school as long as the difference is large enough. I know I would have if I had the chance.

Yep, I've spoken to both Penn and Temple alumni, and both rarely have anything nice to say about each other: Temple says Penn dentists can't tell the difference from the discoid end from the cleoid end, Penn says Temple students can't tell the difference between their cranium and their rectum. That's the result of being two dental schools in the same city. People have their pre-conceived notions about Temple only being strong clincally, and Penn only being strong didactically; but, at the end of the day, Temple's NDBE pass rates are fine, and Penn's NERB pass rates are excellent. Numbers don't lie, and ignorance is stupid.

 

[SmithieWin]

This is the same thing with USC and UCLA. The thing is, UCLA is beating us because their tuition is cheaper. I think USC trains better real world, private practice dentists, but in the end it doesn't matter. People will always choose the cheaper school as long as the difference is large enough. I know I would have if I had the chance.

doubt it...

 

[HeyCharlie]

Comparing Harvard vs. Penn is NOT the same as comparing USC vs. UCLA. You have an Ivy (Harvard) vs. Ivy (Penn) and an Ivy-caliber (UCLA) vs. something that doesn't resemble an Ivy-caliber in any way, shape or form (USC). It's like comparing Harvard vs. Temple.

 

[Bereno]

Comparing Harvard vs. Penn is NOT the same as comparing USC vs. UCLA. You have an Ivy (Harvard) vs. Ivy (Penn) and an Ivy-caliber (UCLA) vs. something that doesn't resemble an Ivy-caliber in any way, shape or form (USC). It's like comparing Harvard vs. Temple.

I would not say its like Harvard vs Temple either. I would say its closer to Harvard vs BU lol 😀

 

[Timpson]

Comparing Harvard vs. Penn is NOT the same as comparing USC vs. UCLA. You have an Ivy (Harvard) vs. Ivy (Penn) and an Ivy-caliber (UCLA) vs. something that doesn't resemble an Ivy-caliber in any way, shape or form (USC). It's like comparing Harvard vs. Temple.

I was speaking of Penn vs Temple, the comparison being that they are in the same city like USC and UCLA.

How is USC not like a west coast Ivy? Our endowment is as large as most Ivy league schools and is growing faster then Penn's. Penn was established more then a century before USC, so of course USC is catching up. I am not comparing USC to Harvard. Harvard is an institution in a league of its own in the US.


UCLA is a great research institution with a great medical school, but you can't compare it to the private Ivy league schools. UCLA is run very differently from these schools because it is a public institution and is run by the UC Regents and the taxpayers of California.

 

[Timpson]

doubt it...

Just my opinion. The key word here is think. Obviously there is no way to objectively measure the quality of graduates from these schools.

 

[enghead]

thank you all for the thoughtful posts! I think the fact that the discussing is going on for so long is evidence enough that there is no clear winner, and it really depends on a pre-dent's personal preference. As for me, I'm still undecided so I may end up visiting both schools again before making my final decision.

that said, I would still appreciate any continuing posts about either school if anyone has an extra opinion to add!