Harvard Psychiatry

[juddson]

I've been the the Harvard pages and have a few questions about the programs. First, it seems from reading the sites that Harvard offers a special residency program in child and adolescent psychiatry - apart and seperate from a general residency in psychiatry. Do I have this right? I was under the impression that one must complete a four year residency in general and then move to a two year fellowship in C/A.

Also, it appears that harvard has four seperate residency training programs:
(1) Cambridge Health Alliance
(2) Longwood
(3) Mass General/Mclean
(4) Harvard SouthShore

Is one of these considered the "central" program? Which is most respected?

Oh yea . . .and is there ANYWHERE reasonably close to any of these programs that one could purchase a house fit for a family of four for less than $300k . . .or is this whole thing just a pipedream?

Thanks
Justin

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[atsai3]

Also, it appears that harvard has four seperate residency training programs:
(1) Cambridge Health Alliance
(2) Longwood
(3) Mass General/Mclean
(4) Harvard SouthShore

Is one of these considered the "central" program? Which is most respected?

Oh yea . . .and is there ANYWHERE reasonably close to any of these programs that one could purchase a house fit for a family of four for less than $300k . . .or is this whole thing just a pipedream?

Thanks
Justin

1. You are correct; the standard progression is 4 year adult psych residency followed by 2 year child fellowship. Several programs offer "short tracking" to residents accepted into the residency program who are sure they want to do child; basically some of your PGY2-4 rotations are consolidated and you do a total 5-year combined track. Typically the short tracking is offered to residents who are continuing on at their own institutions, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case. For example, last year one of the UW residents short tracked into child psych at UCSF.

2. None of the programs are considered a "central" program. They are housed in different hospitals and therefore have different identities.

3. The Boston area is expensive. Be prepared to drive a long distance if you want to buy a 3BR home for <$300K.

Cheers
-AT.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

3. The Boston area is expensive. Be prepared to drive a long distance if you want to buy a 3BR home for <$300K.

Like Vermont.

Unfortunately the Boston area is obscenely expensive. Hopefully some boston-ites can give you some good ideas of possible areas.

-t

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

If I absolutely HAD to buy in the Boston metro area for <300k, I'd probably go with a northen burb of Providence. Attleboro is nice, but you're still going to be getting a smallish place for 300k. Its on the commuter line though, so it would only be 45mins-1hr to get to work (depending on the site of course).

Alternately, if you go NE of Boston you can find some deals in Lynn, but there's a reason they're deals. Maybe a little heavy on the crime for a family, but a good deal for a single guy who's never going to be home.

You have to go waaaaay west to afford anything, so that direction's probably out.

Overall, if I were you I'd rent half of a 2-flat in Arlington or Lexington (north burbs). They're absolutely gorgeous, the crime rate is non-existent compared to boston, and they're a short red-line ride to MGH and Cambridge Health. Longwood and Southshore would be a little trickier to commute to, but they would still be doable.

My wife and I were in the same situation a while ago and we found that Arlington was the best compromise, but we rented. You can get a VERY spacious 2-flat our there, ~1600sqft, for ~$1300/month, but be ready to pay out the keister for heating during the winter, because the 2-flats are notorious for massive "heating oil" bills to the tune of $1200-1500 per winter.


HamOn

 

[Doc Samson]

I've been the the Harvard pages and have a few questions about the programs. First, it seems from reading the sites that Harvard offers a special residency program in child and adolescent psychiatry - apart and seperate from a general residency in psychiatry. Do I have this right? I was under the impression that one must complete a four year residency in general and then move to a two year fellowship in C/A.

Also, it appears that harvard has four seperate residency training programs:
(1) Cambridge Health Alliance
(2) Longwood
(3) Mass General/Mclean
(4) Harvard SouthShore

Is one of these considered the "central" program? Which is most respected?

Oh yea . . .and is there ANYWHERE reasonably close to any of these programs that one could purchase a house fit for a family of four for less than $300k . . .or is this whole thing just a pipedream?

Thanks
Justin

1) The MGH/McLean residency program has 5-year C+A program where you do 3 years of adult and are guaranteed entry into the 2-year C+A fellowship. At many residencies, you can fast-track into C+A, leaving adult residency after 3 years to do the 2 year fellowship wherever you want as long as you've completed the rotation requirements (i.e. nonelective time) in those 3 years (if this is of interest, you should be on the lookout for programs that defer non-elective time to the 4th year in order to avoid losing manpower to fast-trackers - a shady arrangement that many a budding C+A fellow has discovered only after matching to a residency).

2) You're right in identifying the four separate residency programs. South Shore is an outlier, that many consider far weaker than the other 3. It is centered in Brockton (a town south of Boston) rather than Boston/Cambridge like the others. The other 3 have their own strengths. The most traditionally prestigious is probably MGH/McLean. They have very strong research, and actively pursue research oriented residents (MD/PhDs and other dual degree folk abound). Longwood is probably the most broad ranging, and the most "central" to Harvard, since its hospitals (Beth Israel Deaconess, Brigham and Women's, and Mass Mental Health Center) share the Longwood Medical Area with Harvard Medical School, the Countway Library, et al. Strong clinical skills with lots of face time with patients are an emphasis. While lots of research opportunities are available, research definitely takes a back seat to clinical work here. Cambridge is a very strong community program with strong emphasis on psychotherapy and work with immigrant/refugee populations. (I know less about this program than the previous two since I trained at Longwood and MGH).
One humorous and quasi-accurate comparison that folks have made is to the 4 houses in Harry Potter. MGH = Slytherin, Longwood = Griffindor, Cambridge = Ravensclaw, South Shore = Hufflepuff.

3) You might be able to find a house for a family of 4 for $300k in the Brockton area, but that probably isn't going to happen in the immediate environs of Boston/Cambridge. You might want to give Realtor.com a whirl to see what you come up with.

 

[sikegeek]

What's a 2-flat? Is that 2 bedrooms?

 

[PsychMD2100]

BWH is solid but MGH/McLean has the fame. MGH is what people think of when they hear "Harvard". Longwood and Southshore don't have as much of the prestige.

 

[HMSPSYCH]

Also, it appears that harvard has four seperate residency training programs:
(1) Cambridge Health Alliance
(2) Longwood
(3) Mass General/Mclean
(4) Harvard SouthShore

Is one of these considered the "central" program? Which is most respected?

Oh yea . . .and is there ANYWHERE reasonably close to any of these programs that one could purchase a house fit for a family of four for less than $300k . . .or is this whole thing just a pipedream?

Thanks
Justin

This is my impressions of each of the 4 Harvard programs:

Cambridge-Strong community oriented program in a relaxed, nurturing, pampering environment. Very strong in psychotherapy, good financial/healthcare benefits. Very pleasant interview experience. Negatives: this is an emotionally charged program in a very expensive housing market. If you value personal privacy for the next 4 years then look elsewhere. The relax call schedule of Q14 sounds pleasant but one wonders about the residents competency upon graduation.

MGH/McLean- This is the program for the academically gifted with many MD/MPH or MD/PHD residents. Very strong in research, psychopharmacology, psychodynamic training. Arguably the most prestigious if not the 'best' psychiatry residency program in N.America, if not the world. Negatives: many of the residents are of the socially withdrawn, poor interpersonal relatedness type, expensive housing options, calls schedule can be grueling at both MGH and McLean CEC.

Mass Mental Health had a separate psychiatry residency program until the 1990s. Due to financial constraint, Mass Mental Health ceased operations in the 1990s and resulted in the creations of two additional Harvard programs in SouthShore and Longwood. Thereby, Mass Mental Health technically no longer exists.

SouthShore- Located in the south suburb of Boston. Very strong in psychopharmacology, strong in psychodynamic training with decent psychoanalytic exposure. Perhaps the hidden gem of the four programs but also the most misunderstood. Decent salary, cheap housings, probably the most diverse training/learning program out of the 4 with many extreme psychiatric pathologies through rotations at mclean, cambridge, va boston-W.rox, brockton, sommerville, corrigan, TSH. Few overnight calls with NF. An overall strong training program if one can overlook the superficial lack of attention to details.
Negatives: malignant? interview experience, inept front office staffers, below average benefits/vacation packages, subjectively considered of lowered status than the other 3 programs solely on its geographic location and by those with cluster B traits, calls can be hectic occasionally.

LongWood- Located in the longwood medical area in Brookline. Very strong in psychopharmacology and strong in psychotherapy. Excellent grand rounds at BWH. Diverse groups of residents. An overall strong program. Negatives: expensive housing options, lots of travelling/traffic issues going to different hospitals, large program size, high standards of living.

 

[zen76]

One humorous and quasi-accurate comparison that folks have made is to the 4 houses in Harry Potter. MGH = Slytherin, Longwood = Griffindor, Cambridge = Ravensclaw, South Shore = Hufflepuff.

Love the Harry Potter analogy.