Harvard vs. Penn -- help me decide once and for all...

[Mateodaspy]

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I would just go with Harvard, but their financial aid packages are substantially different...

Penn is making me take 35k in loans (25k in scholarship), whereas Harvard has me at 55k for loans (0 for scholarship)...

Where would you go and why?

 

[Medikit]

Go with peace core

 

[Mateodaspy]

Go with peace core

That's still an option... but I have to decide on one school, then I'll defer for two years if I decide to do Peace Corps..

 

[YzIa]

That's still an option... but I have to decide on one school, then I'll defer for two years if I decide to do Peace Corps..

UPENN, I like underdogs and free $.

 

[PostalWookie]

I have the same choices, plus Hopkins, but since I'm MSTP, money is not a consideration. I'm going with Penn, basically because I like the feel of the place. The considerations for spending 8 years versus 4 somewhere are different, but still I found that I can see myself spending that time with Penn students, but not so much with the Harvard ones. Not to bash Harvard, but the people I know who will end up there are the premeds that I've consistently made fun of for the past 4 years.

 

[Mateodaspy]

I have the same choices, plus Hopkins, but since I'm MSTP, money is not a consideration. I'm going with Penn, basically because I like the feel of the place. The considerations for spending 8 years versus 4 somewhere are different, but still I found that I can see myself spending that time with Penn students, but not so much with the Harvard ones. Not to bash Harvard, but the people I know who will end up there are the premeds that I've consistently made fun of for the past 4 years.

What about Philly vs. Boston? Are you coming from another New England city or are you from someplace else (like me)? Why were the Harvard kids so much more irritating than the ones at Penn (I sort of felt the same way, too... for some of them at least)...

 

[Mateodaspy]

Harvard has more money than any country in South America outside of Brazil.

Just sack it up and haggle with them. They're known for being very generous. You know you're a big H-***** anyway. I'm sure they'll give you more money if you compare packages.

I probably am an H-***** deep down inside... but I'm trying to fight it off and find out which school is actually best for me...

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Whats the overall difference in the long run, about $120k ($80 due to price difference, $40k in interest if paid off in 10 years at a low APR)? It all depends on how much that Big Red H is worth to you personally, because it's only going to make a marginal difference in your professional life. To some people, saying that you went to HMS would be worth $120k more than saying you went to Penn, while others would scoff at that idea - you seem to be stradling the line (with a hell of a lean, of course 😉). Personally, I like Penn's program more than Harvards (from the little I know of them both). 1.5 years of basic science, 2 years clinically and a half year of research sounds pretty sweet. But you will have to compete for grades, something that I dont want to do. If it were up to me, I'd go with Penn, partly because of the tuition, and partly because it has one of the best established MD/MBA programs. But that's just me - how badly do you want that H on your wall?

 

[CarleneM]

definitely haggle with hms. my parents and i set up a meeting with them and got some nice changes to my financial package. this was the only school i submitted my fa forms to so i didn't even have any leverage like you do with the penn offer. you sound like a stellar guy and i'm willing to bet that HMS is going to fight to keep you there. i think either place would obviously be great but before making a final decision, i think a little negotiation is in order.

if you can't get HMS to budge, then I'd go with penn. $20,000 is a big difference in debt for little to no difference in quality.

regarding students at HMS- although i haven't been to revisit yet, its my sense that gunner-types aren't really the norm at HMS. a friend at HMS told me that "all those annoying premeds you remember from orgo and bio" don't get in; they are too cookie cutter. we'll see if that's true though....

 

[CarleneM]

oh one other thing i just thought of- if you defer for two years and go to HMS, HMS will have a very different curriculum at that point. 2009 is the last class to have the current one. the new one allegedly has 1.5 years of basic science and a one hospital rotation system rather than going to a bunch of different sites.

 

[getunconcsious]

I'm gonna laugh when you become a sellout due to your massive debt...

 

[aye]

i wish i was in your shoes. anyway, my friend's older sister just graduated from hms and she didn't like it very much. she was saying how she didn't really feel like she learned alot there based on all the hype about the school and that they just used they're reputation of being 'harvard' which automatically means you'll get a great medical education. just something for you to think about...

 

[PostalWookie]

I'm actually from New York / Brooklyn. I think Philly gets the New York vibe better than any other major city - it actually reminds me a lot of Brooklyn. Boston is pretty boring, and Baltimore is a ****hole. Plus Philly is very affordable on a student budget, and you will be able to do more with your free time than you would with Boston.

Finally, it also depends on what you want to do with your future. For academic medicine, either name will carry a lot of weight, as other people in the field know that both are excelelent schools. If you want to do private practice, the Harvard name will be much more impressive - somehow UPenn isn't very well known by laypeople.

Also, the Harvard kids may well not be the cookie-cutter gunners. They are, what I consider, the worst type of gunner - the "I went to (insert name of third world country) for 2 years to build a (insert name of horrible devastating disease) clinic with my bare hands" type. So ambitious it's painful.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Also, the Harvard kids may well not be the cookie-cutter gunners. They are, what I consider, the worst type of gunner - the "I went to (insert name of third world country) for 2 years to build a (insert name of horrible devastating disease) clinic with my bare hands" type. So ambitious it's painful.

If only...

 

[Ambs]

I'm just curious what happened to UCSF?? You tossed it aside?? 🙁

 

[MadameLULU]

I'm gonna laugh when you become a sellout due to your massive debt...

Matt, he's bringing up an interesting pt. I read in a previous post about your goals as a physician and I'm wondering if you really think you can acheive them AND be happy if you're trying to pay 200K+ off. I have similar career goals, and I'm trying to decide between 3 schools, one of which would put me in enormous debt, but I liked it the best and most importantly, I felt the most comfortable there. One would put me in a third of the debt at the aforementioned school, and the other would put me in moderate debt. Decisions, decisions, decisions. =(

I've been getting advice from physicians/researchers who are in the same line of work that I'm interested in, and I encourage you to do the same.

 

[dianamd]

This is a pretty tight choice, but I think that you would be a fool to pass up on HMS to go to Penn. Don't get me wrong, Penn is a great school, but take a step back, away from the close (#1 vs #4 or whatever) rankings, away from people saying that both are excellent with classes, research, etc.

An old professor of mine used to say that great schools are great for many reasons. Going to HMS, sure you'll incur more debt--not good, even though I agree with the above poster that you should tell them that you would love to come except for that money. But you'll also open yourself up to a lifetime of HMS related activities. Harvard people have mad connections, and Upenn people have far fewer (unless you're at Wharton, and even then, Harvard Business School has many more connections). You may spend more money now, but the doors that are opened as a result of going to HMS are more than at Upenn--- there's no question.

As for Philly/Boston, they are comparable cities in terms of size, culture, amount of opportunities, quality of football teams, etc. Just see which one you like more when you are there, and go with that vibe--because they are similar in many ways, I'd say it was a fit issue. (as opposed to any of these places vs. Houston, there are objective and obvious differences.)

An above poster said that Philly gets the new york vibe and it is like brooklyn -- well, I lived in Philly and now live in NYC -- we say, Philadelphia is NY without manhattan. So it "captures" brookyln but that is like capturing a low-key Chicago. I personally would take philly over brooklyn any day (except i'd miss the hipsters, oh man!) -- but, sorry, of course manhattan wins over all.

The other way to think is, as Amazon.com's founder does, Regret minimization. Will you regret not going to Upenn? Will you regret not going to HMS? I make many big decisions based on this, because regret will hang around for the rest of my life and I can't stand that.

In making this decision, I would also try to think about your views BEFORE this process got into high gear--when your screws became loose and all the information, propoganda, and recruiting got in your head. What did you want then? That is likely what will make you happiest next year as well.

Anyway, it's surprising that so many people on this thread have told you to go to Upenn (So it seems)--- maybe they are on the HMS waitlist or have friends on the HMS waitlist? Good luck! 🙂

 

[PookieGirl]

That's still an option... but I have to decide on one school, then I'll defer for two years if I decide to do Peace Corps..

Have you already applied to the Peace Corps? Applying can take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. And often the date of departure gets moved. Also, unless you do teaching, PC is 2 years and 3 months. So before you forego Penn or Harvard, reassess where you are with PC. I'm curious to know if Harvard or Penn would even let you defer for 2 years.

Having done PC, I can tell you it's WAY different than med school. That's kind of obvious but the main thing to know is that you will often find yourself sitting around with lots of down time. For the first 6 months at my post, my job was to meet people and get to know the village. That may sound all good but it's not time intensive work under which many of us productive pre-meds thrive.

You might want to reconsider this. If you're ready to bust your a$$ working, PC is not it. If you're set on volunteering abroad, there are other short term projects you could do that might suit your timeline better.

 

[Turtle48]

Hey Matt--I was waitlisted at HMS, and as much as I would like to see the admitted students go elsewhere, I'd have to say HMS over Penn. I'm SURE the financial aid office will be cooperative to take another look at your package once you explain your situation to them (you can't afford the package they've given you and why, you've gotten much more attractive and reasonable financial aid package from a competitive school, but would rather go to HMS...come on, they're surely to make a few changes).

As for location, to the poster who said Philly was way better than Boston--you've GOT to be kidding me. It is true that Philly is more affordable, but that's because Philly is a ****hole as Baltimore is, but just a step up. I am probably going to get flamed for saying that, but I've lived up and down the east coast in major cities my whole life; that being said, Boston and New York City take the cake for the best cities to live and learn in. I personally think Philly only a little less ****ty than Baltimore.

OK...as for students...you're going to find all types of students EVERYWHERE you go. Trust me, there will be gunners at Penn also. I know one there. I personally prefer the gunners who went out and "built a clinic in a third world country with their bare hands" over the gunners who spent 4 years of college locked in their dormrooms studying to set the curve and wouldn't share their notes with their classmates. Also, don't judge the student body on the two or three students you met on interview day. Have you gone to 2nd look yet for these two schools?

Harvard is an amazing place with amazing faculty and amazing opportunities awaiting you...I really feel like you'll have many more doors open to you going there than if you go to Penn. Penn is very research-oriented too (it seems their preparation is geared toward students who are heavy on research and academic medicine); whereas, Harvard is a much broader education that will prepare you to do whatever you please--academia, private practice, public policy, etc.

My choice: Harvard, hands down.

 

[japhy]

the students at penn are great. hell, i am a law student at penn and they still treat me with respect.

look, both of these schools provide excellent research opportunities, do incredibly well on step 1 and in the match. i like the way penn's program is set up - only 1.5 years of pre-clinical.


you obviously want an excuse to go to harvard. so suck up the money and go. 👎

 

[Turtle48]

you obviously want an excuse to go to harvard. so suck up the money and go. 👎

The bitterness...

I think half the people who tell you to go to Penn are just trying to spite HMS to compensate for being rejected by them.

Pick Harvard, but first get the financial aid office to revise your package as Carlene did!

 

[CarleneM]

As for location, to the poster who said Philly was way better than Boston--you've GOT to be kidding me. It is true that Philly is more affordable, but that's because Philly is a ****hole as Baltimore is, but just a step up. I am probably going to get flamed for saying that, but I've lived up and down the east coast in major cities my whole life; that being said, Boston and New York City take the cake for the best cities to live and learn in. I personally think Philly only a little less ****ty than Baltimore.

I agree that Boston is a great city. I have only visited philly and lived in boston, so I'm biased. However, everyone I know that went to undergrad at upenn moved back to boston when they graduated and love it here. It has a ton of character, is very diverse, and has so many unique neighborhoods. Matt, I think you'd really like the South End. Also, I think its a more intellectual community than philly. With harvard and MIT as well as other great schools like bc and tufts, you really have a very active intellectual community and lots of independent film, music, art etc. Not to mention a ton of students everywhere you turn.

 

[Sparky Man]

The bitterness...

I think half the people who tell you to go to Penn are just trying to spite HMS to compensate for being rejected by them.

Pick Harvard, but first get the financial aid office to revise your package as Carlene did!

Hey Turtle! I have to agree with you, I'd go to Harvard (even if I had to pay for it all). You won't be a sell out. It's a great place to learn! A really diverse student body, wonderful research, clinical, and leadership opportunities... I love Boston, too. Philly is cool, but...well anyway.

Good luck with your decision, Matt. As a HMS waitlistee, I'm being pretty honest here.

Sparky

 

[Mateodaspy]

thank you so much to everyone who offered their advice -- i'm leaving to catch my plane to philly in about 30 minutes...

hopefully i'll be able to make a decision next week when i get back...

good luck to everyone else trying to make a decision!

 

[QofQuimica]

You don't give us very much to go on to use in making a rational decision. How much does the money matter to you? I'm guessing not much; otherwise, you'd have chosen Baylor or Vanderbilt, two excellent schools which both offered you a full ride. Both of the programs you are deciding between are also excellent, and you will get a fantastic education at either school. So, since you cannot make a wrong decision by deciding to attend either one of them, go with your gut feeling, and take the advice of perfect strangers from the internet with a whole lick of salt. 😉

 

[notdeadyet]

For all of the comparisons of Philly to Boston, it's worth remembering that Harvard is in Cambridge. I have lots of friends who went to grad school at Harvard and rarely did they venture over to Boston much. You get pretty tucked in to the Cambridge scene.

 

[jjmack]

I thought HMS was in boston though? I wasn't "good enough" to get an interview.

For all of the comparisons of Philly to Boston, it's worth remembering that Harvard is in Cambridge. I have lots of friends who went to grad school at Harvard and rarely did they venture over to Boston much. You get pretty tucked in to the Cambridge scene.

 

[getunconcsious]

You don't give us very much to go on to use in making a rational decision. How much does the money matter to you? I'm guessing not much; otherwise, you'd have chosen Baylor or Vanderbilt, two excellent schools which both offered you a full ride. Both of the programs you are deciding between are also excellent, and you will get a fantastic education at either school. So, since you cannot make a wrong decision by deciding to attend either one of them, go with your gut feeling, and take the advice of perfect strangers from the internet with a whole lick of salt. 😉

Which is exactly why he's totally gonna sell out...I mean it wouldn't be logical to turn down full scholarships, go hundreds of thousands into debt and then....go to the third world???

Altruism is overrated, Matty. Nothing wrong with making obscene amounts of money, so go for it! 😎

 

[alec689]

I thought HMS was in boston though? I wasn't "good enough" to get an interview.

HMS is in Boston, not in Cambridge. See this map of the area:

http://hms.harvard.edu/hms/hospitals.asp

MGH, the other major hospital affiliated with Harvard is near Beacon Hill/Government Center and is very much in the center of Boston.

 

[CarleneM]

I thought HMS was in boston though? I wasn't "good enough" to get an interview.

yeah its in boston, right near fenway park actually so you really feel a part of boston.

also, matt, check out this program HMS has for loan repayment scholarships: http://www.hms.harvard.edu/finaid/lrap/ it's aimed at alumni going into more low paying, public service type fields which seems to be what you are thinking about doing.

 

[leechy]

Pick Harvard, but first get the financial aid office to revise your package as Carlene did!

I don't think they'd let you use merit scholarships at other schools to leverage with them. You can still request an adjustment to your package for financial reasons independent of merit $$ you've received elsewhere, but they're not going to make adjustments to match merit money.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

What is the difference in debt that we're talking about here? $20k? $30k? I'd pay $30k more for the big ego boost. You're probably not doing MSTP but Harvard is THE best research institution in the world. You should see their NIH grants...almost $1 billion i think. I say go with the Big H on this one. By the way, dental school is way more expensive that med school (we're talking about like $250,000 in debt) so suck it up and take out that big ole loan.

 

[ltrain]

hey, just thought i'd give you a little personal opinion on the peace corps. if your ultimate goal is work do medical work internationally, i think your time is better spent getting trained as a physician first, and then going to do the work. one of the most frustrating parts of my personal peace corps experience was not having any (verified) expertise. also, as a previous poster mentioned, the pace is super slow compared to almost anything american. if you're excited about med school and about really "making a difference," it's going to be frustrating. obviously, you're a smart guy and someone who really has the potential to make a difference. you're going to have even more of this potential (with newfound influence and resources!) when you get your degree from a hot shot med school. dr matt from harvard/penn will get funding to work abroad. peace corps volunteer...well you'll be able to identify the problems. anyway, just my two cents.

oh, and i'm also wondering what happened to ucsf??

 

[flier]

This is my first time posting on SDN, but I really felt compelled to give my two cents on your "predicament."

As someone in a somewhat similar situation (choosing betw/ Harvard and a full ride to Duke), I think it is best to go on your gut instinct. I liked Harvard when I interviewed, and I absolutely loved Duke when I interviewed as well. It also didn't hurt that it would be cheaper for me to go to Duke than to Harvard. Penn is offering you money, and it is a really great school. I would go with Penn. But if your gut instinct is telling you to go to Harvard--go with it! Congratulations and good luck!

 

[myodana]

by the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!! 😀

 

[gh9967]

I know people in both MSI and II at Penn Med and they are all very happy. The 1.5 year schedule is fantastic according to my friend who is doing his rotations right now. Philly in general is a wonderful city and definitely not as cold as Boston! I guess the biggest things Harvard has over Penn are
its name and perhaps a more renowned faculty.

Personally I would go to Harvard because of its name. Man it would be fun to drop that H-bomb just once in my life. Then again, I could be biased since I'm on the Penn waitlist. 😉

 

[10minutes]

I was just wondering how you narrowed down to Harvard and Penn? You obviously got one of the best outcomes I've ever seen among premeds. 2 H-bombs to drop!!

 

[stanford05]

I think I would definitely not overlook the opportunities made available at HMS in terms of research, faculty, students, etc. Penn is a fantastic place, but I think Harvard still has a leg up on everyone else. In the long run, the money will be paid back - you have to consider this an investment in your future.

 

[Antiviral22]

Go with UPenn ... Philly is a much better city (I've lived in Boston for 7 years). I also work with Harvard med students everyday, and believe me, they aren't any more capable (or inept) than med student from other schools. Plus, the Harvard professors that do clinical work at my hospital are for the most part excessively conceeded, derogatory, rude, and have the worst bedside manner ever (and I've worked in a lot of academic clinical settings). UPenn is an excellent medical school without the pseuo-prestige of HMS. Go for UPenn.

 

[uproarhz]

Hey Matt,

I have no idea how your opinion will change after getting back from Penn. but I think if you are really interested in global health, Penn is the way to go. That seemed to be a definite selling point for them and for good reasons. I would agree with people who said let go of the peace corp thing at this point because as a med student or even a doctor you will be able to do a lot more. Seemed like with Penn you would be able to get a pseudo-peace corp experience smack in the middle of med school when you will have the ability to do a lot more.
I would also say that don't fret your decision too much. If you are into Harvard just for the networking, you can always go there for residency after med school, interact with the same people and make the same connections at a time when you are better equipped to make use of your connections. Med school is obviously not the end of your education or the last of your experiences in life!

It was good meeting you and best of luck with your decision!

 

[leechy]

If we look at this thread like an informal poll, it looks like Harvard is either on par with or slightly ahead of Penn. Rather different from:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=110809

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=62464

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=8438

These threads may give you some food for thought. To sum up their contents, the usual response has been to just go with the money when the schools are practically equivalent. This thread seems to have elicited a rather different proportion of responses, perhaps because the money situation is less disparate in this case (though still considerable). In any case, my advice would be to let neither money nor the pragmatically negligible prestige difference overly influence your decision. Neither of those two factors should be the sole factor making you choose one place over the other.

 

[diosa428]

Hey Matt,
but I think if you are really interested in global health, Penn is the way to go.

Harvard has one of the best international health programs in the country. Hopkins has the other.

 

[Mateodaspy]

oh, and i'm also wondering what happened to ucsf??

Honestly, my decision to drop UCSF was a bit capricious... I am so incredibly burnt out from the interview/revisit process (I have only had about four weekends at school in Houston this entire semester) and really wanted a chance to be with my friends for my last weekend before graduation, so I decided to not go to the UCSF revisit this coming weekend. That coupled along with the facts that the school won't pay for the whole plane ticket nor did they offer me much in terms of financial aid. I also felt a bit out of place at my interview being the only out-of-stater there out of a group of around 10 interviewees. While I absolutely love San Francisco and could certainly imagine myself there for four years, I decided that the school isn't the best place for me at this point in my life.

 

[Mateodaspy]

by the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!! 😀

lol thanks!! had a great time celebrating up in philly =) Free shots from various MS-1's at Penn all night=best recruiting job EVER. 🙂

 

[Mateodaspy]

I was just wondering how you narrowed down to Harvard and Penn? You obviously got one of the best outcomes I've ever seen among premeds. 2 H-bombs to drop!!

Eliminated all southern schools because I've lived in the region my entire life and am desperate to get out... not UCSF for various reasons (mostly just a matter of circumstance: late acceptance due to late interview, late second look, bad fin aid, etc.).... not Hopkins because I didn't feel any connection with the students, hated Baltimore, etc..... not Yale because I despised New Haven and I found the administration very hard to work with (though the fin aid was great)... not columbia because i was very unimpressed with my interview day, the curriculum, and the way the administration turns a blind eye to the students...

Leaving me with Penn and Harvard... and of course I'm still undecided -- I'm going to talk to HMS finaid this week to see if they can't tweak my package a bit...

 

[myodana]

I'm going to talk to HMS finaid this week to see if they can't tweak my package a bit...

i want you to re-read what you just wrote. "tweak my package..."... huh huh huh...

 

[PostalWookie]

You can always save your Harvard acceptance letter and bust it out when you tell people you went to Penn. It's nice to be able to say you turned down Harvard.

 

[xadmin]

Eliminated all southern schools because I've lived in the region my entire life and am desperate to get out... not UCSF for various reasons (mostly just a matter of circumstance: late acceptance due to late interview, late second look, bad fin aid, etc.).... not Hopkins because I didn't feel any connection with the students, hated Baltimore, etc..... not Yale because I despised New Haven and I found the administration very hard to work with (though the fin aid was great)... not columbia because i was very unimpressed with my interview day, the curriculum, and the way the administration turns a blind eye to the students...

Leaving me with Penn and Harvard... and of course I'm still undecided -- I'm going to talk to HMS finaid this week to see if they can't tweak my package a bit...

Matt, how much did UCSF offered you in free money?

 

[leaft]

Matt

The second look weekend was awesome and amazing. You should go to Harvard. The people who are going to be in the class of 2009 at Harvard are the coolest pre-meds that I have met thoughout this process. Everyone was really smart but also had something else that made them really amazing and interesting.

Also. The med students who we met (not only 1st years, but from all 4 years) were really really happy. They had lives outside of med school. They had jobs, significant others, successful long distance relationships, pets, and outside activities. The atmosphere was overwhelmingly superior to the other schools that I have considered. I think I will be a big fan of the "pass, no-fail" system. And friday night out with the first year class was a kick-ass good time (PM me if you want to hear good stories). Plus- Boston is a really really cool city.

The topic of financial aid came up many times during the weekend. And basically, the result of all the talk was that the Harvard education will pay for itself in the long run. Until this weekend I didn't buy that. But now I think I do. Talking to students really made me believe that I could do it financially and that Harvard financial aid is not too bad. One of the funniest comments of the weekend was "if you take an anti-Harvard scholarship (ie. merit scholarship) it will not be worth it". They also said over and over that they don't offer merit scholarships because everyone there deserves one. After meeting all the accepted people I tend to agree.

Well. good luck making this hard decision. i hope to see you in the fall.

 

[smile82]

Hi Matt,

I've been trying to make a similar decision. After ruling out Hopkins, Penn and Stanford, I've narrowed it down to Harvard and UCSF. I was also at revisit weekend and I just want to second what leaft said. I had an AMAZING time. The only other revisit I went to was Hopkins, but I can say that my experience at HMS blew Hopkins out of the water. The prospective students were SO friendly and accomplished, down to earth and fun. I could easily see myself finding a supportive group of friends in that bunch. And there was a sense of happiness and community among all the class levels that made HMS seem like a good place to be 🙂

I was a little worried about the NP curriculum, but after talking with students and sitting in on tutorial, I'm really excited about it. I think it's a much more fun and effective way to learn the skills that will REALLY help you become a great physician (ie. learning to approach/think through a case, describe and defend your ideas, work with others). I like the idea of having a few lectures to give me the concepts, working through cases to learn how to think clinically, and then filling in the details on my own (honestly, how much detail from your undergraduate science lectures do you really remember??).

I'm very interested in international health and development work, and so the opportunities for the MD+ are very important to me. I know at HMS I'll have access to the research/public health/globaL health/service etc opportunities that I'm looking for. From the different panels, I really got a sense that advisors were there to find you funding and connect you with the people/resources that could help you get to where you wanted to be. And of course, the clinical experiences are unparalled. MGH, Brigham, Children's...can you really ask for more breadth and depth in the quality of training sites? And Boston seemed fun fun fun 🙂 You have the intellectual atmosphere, there are a lot of really charming neighborhoods and great nightlife.

So after this weekend I am leaning towards Harvard. Harvard's fin aid doesn;t make UCSF that much less expensive for me even though I am in state. I am still talking to people about the UCSF experience and whether I'd be happy being so far from California. I know I could find a lot of the same opportunities at UCSF. Both schools are laidback and P/F which is something that is very important to be--it just makes the class more cooperative and builds community. Think about location, lifestyle, curriculum, classmates, opportunities. And I don't know if this applies to you, but I think I would always regret turning down "Harvard" and the "Harvard experience." Not so much for the name, but for the doors and connections it could open for me, especially since I want to work internationally.

Anyway, sorry for making this so long. PM me if you want. Good luck!