Has anyone ever questioned this?

[AnimalLover24]

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Hello all,
I was wondering how many of you questioned pursuing becoming a vet because of having to euthanize or be a part of terminal surgeries? It has been a little bit of an issue for me. I understand that it is a blessing but also a curse in a way. Has anyone ever felt like they don't or can't do it?

 

[kekemapa04]

There are quite a few schools that do not require you to be a part of terminal surgeries. They will offer it as an elective instead to those who wish to take it. I know we were talking about it being that way at WSU and I believe Oregon doesn't do them either. Just research the schools and then apply to the ones you agree with.

 

[VAgirl]

There've been discussions on vets performing euthanasia on here before. You should look them up. The general opinion seemed to me to be that if you're anti-euthanasia, you'll have a really hard time being a vet. Maybe even a hard time getting into vet school. I may be overstating the point, but that's what I took away from the discussion.

 

[pressmom]

We have a terminal soft tissue surgery elective here at Tennessee, but terminal surgeries are NOT part of the regular curriculum.

 

[wi girl]

If you're in any type of private practice or research field, euthanasia is a part of the practice. Yes, you may be able to avoid terminal surgeries, but at some point as a vet, you will need to euthanise something, unless you go strictly public health. I mean, it really is not something anyone enjoys doing (obviously) but I think it would be hard to find a vet that has never done it.

That being said, I think that having a strong research background, where mice are bred for a specific genotype, and if they don't have that genotype, they are euthanized, I'm used to that mentality. Is it a good thing? No. Am I probably desensitized? Yes. But there you have it.

Not that I don't understand your concerns. When I first decided to get into vet med, before I had done research, I had a problem with it just because it is so sad to lose a pet. But how I think of it is that being the best doctor I can be is knowing WHEN to make that call, and helping the family through the grieving process.

 

[VAgirl]

you will need to euthanise something, unless you go strictly public health.

While there are public health roles that wouldn't require this, there are also public health roles that do require euthanasia. In fact, what they could require would be culling. Which could be either better or worse, though I'll vote for worse. In controlling certain epidemics (epizootics), vets cull massive numbers of animals. Serious outbreaks (the two that jump to mind are FMD, AI) the numbers of animals culled can be hundreds of thousands to millions, depending upon the location and the disease. So while you don't have the emotional component of it being someone's pet, you do have the dramatically higher numbers of animal lives lost. And you also have to deal with the fact that perhaps there isn't a personal bond between human and animal, but in culling you are destroying someone's livelihood. Sometimes governments compensate for this loss, but it is often not enough to keep the farmers from ruin (especially for the smaller farmers). So that's pretty darn emotional right there.

I'm mostly aware of this type of activity for other countries, but the US is not necessarily immune. Our protections against introductions of foreign animal diseases are better than many other countries (but probably not better than the UK, and they've had FMD twice this decade, issues with bluetongue, sporadic AI outbreaks in wild birds, etc., so the US is at risk).

Now, not every public health vet is going to end up having to cull animals. But even if you're not the one culling, public health vets who are monitoring diseases globally (surveillance, response, containment) deal with the issue of culling every single day as a fact of life. And even if you're interested in the human applications of these diseases, the zoonotic aspect means culling is still a part of your daily awareness.

Hrm...sorry, didn't mean to seem like I was ranting. Can you tell this area of vet med is my fav? But ultimately, euthanasia (in whatever form) is something that I don't think any vet in any area of the profession will be able to avoid. It's something to very seriously consider before jumping in.

 

[wi girl]

Thanks for the info VAgirl! I must admit, pub health is something I don't know AS MUCH about (as you can tell). I was thinking that if someone wanted to avoid euth. this might be the only sector possible to do it in. They could also do hospital admin I suppose (which some vets do -- get your MBA too!)

I totally agree that if you have major problems with euth, vet med is probably not for you.

Once again, thanks VAgirl for the clarification! It wasn't a rant at all, and was much more informative than my speculation.

 

[AnimalLover24]

It isn't that I think it is immoral or wrong. It is something that I know I would have to do eventually and I think I would be fine with it eventually but right now I just don't know how I could do it, at least not right now. This is coming from a guy who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Is there any statistics that would show any kind of info pertaining to roughly how many euthanizations a vet would do in, say, a year? I don't know if it is an everyday occurrence or what.

This is really just my toughest obstacle right now. I love every other aspect of being a vet and I realize nobody obviously loves to put animals to sleep but that is something I'm just going to have to "de-sensitive" to.

 

[wi girl]

You say you are a guy who wouldn't hurt a fly .... a lot of times euth. is not "hurting" the animal, but releasing it from pain, if you will (as trite as that sounds). Maybe you just need to get used to approaching the idea from a different perspective.

As for becoming "de-sensitive" -- I actually hope that in normal practice, this DOESN"T happen to me. I think a quality of a good vet is one who is upset by euth -- I appreciated vet med because it lets you empathize and sympathize more the human med. I wouldn't say that's a quality you should lose, it will probably make you a better vet.


Good luck with working this out! Maybe talking to some current vets/mentors about this issue might help?

 

[nyanko]

It's my opinion that you're thinking of euthanasia in the wrong way. I think that one of the best parts of veterinary medicine as opposed to human medicine is that we have the opportunity to end our patients' suffering before it becomes unbearable, and the pet can die with some dignity when there's no hope for an acceptable quality of life (by the owner's and pet's standards) without it. Being able to release them from pain without prolonging their agony is one of the best things an owner and a vet can do for an animal in this situation.

Of course, that all applies mostly to sick animals. However, there is a need for euthanasia for other practical reasons, such as the animal becoming a danger to people, overpopulation issues or disease control, and sometimes it's harder to justify those to yourself, but if you take a utilitarian outlook ie "greatest good for greatest number" you will understand.

 

[PrimalMU]

AnimalLover24, if I recall correctly, you haven't had any veterinary experience yet, correct? I think getting some experience at a clinic would be good to help you address your concerns. The purpose of veterinary experience, other than the actual experience, is to help you decide if the profession is right for you. It will also give you an idea of how many euths you may have to do, as well as change your perspective of euthanasia from the patient's point of view to the profession's point of view. True, its not something we would want to do, but once you find out the history of an animal, what is has gone through, and learn what its quality of life would be if it was allowed to continue life, then you may have a different outlook on it. What also might help is finding out just how peaceful most euthanasias are.

As for terminal surgery, the way I understand it, these animals are going to be put to sleep anyway. I don't see any problem with performing procedures on animals before they are euthanized because it would help us learn and possibly save a life later in our career. I also think that if we don't take the opportunity, then its a waste of a life. Remember, terminal surgeries are not for the vet's benefit, its for their future clients' benefits.

 

[winglessflight]

Perhaps one of the most difficult things in life is seeing a person or animal die a slow painful death. Unlike with people, veterinarians have the ability to ease this process along by performing euthanasias. As an assistant, I have helped with dozens and dozens of euthanasias (which is by far less than many other people), including my own dog. Even though it is hard, and always sad, it is harder to see an animal in pain, with no quality of life. While I never leave a euthanasia smiling, I know that in many cases euthanasia is one of the kindest things you can do for an animal.

Convenience euths are a completely different story, but luckily I haven't experienced too many of those.

 

[VAgirl]

As for terminal surgery, the way I understand it, these animals are going to be put to sleep anyway.

I think this really depends on the school and whether or not they use shelter animals who would have been euthanized or research animals at the ends of their research stint or the like. I believe that varies from school to school so one should check into it before assuming.

Also, some vet schools seem to be moving away from terminal surgeries--I think there is starting to be the idea in vet med that terminal surgeries may not be an essential part of the learning. Certainly I can think of a number of schools off of the top of my head who don't do them in the core curriculum any more.

 

[cwazy cat lady]

It's my opinion that you're thinking of euthanasia in the wrong way. I think that one of the best parts of veterinary medicine as opposed to human medicine is that we have the opportunity to end our patients' suffering before it becomes unbearable, and the pet can die with some dignity when there's no hope for an acceptable quality of life (by the owner's and pet's standards) without it. Being able to release them from pain without prolonging their agony is one of the best things an owner and a vet can do for an animal in this situation.

Of course, that all applies mostly to sick animals. However, there is a need for euthanasia for other practical reasons, such as the animal becoming a danger to people, overpopulation issues or disease control, and sometimes it's harder to justify those to yourself, but if you take a utilitarian outlook ie "greatest good for greatest number" you will understand.

This is more or less how I see it.

I think I would probably end up crying with clients if I had to euthanize their pets. (I cry about death very very easily). But I would be glad that it is a possibility to euthanize. I hate the idea of suffering for both the pet and the person who must experience/witness it.

Which is sadder? A well-loved pet that dies by the loving choice of its owners... or one which is forced to hang on for a miserable end? I think my biggest concern is not the euthanasia, but the reality of people not willing to invest even just a little bit into their pets (assuming they have the resources). I hate the mentality of 'a dime a dozen'... pets that age with you are the best... but some people are all about the young stage and don't care for their pets as much when they are geriatric... I find that much more sad... 🙁

As for overpopulation, this is where I really really would like to be involved in making a difference--we need to solve this problem and minimize it. It is the biggest source of suffering for companion animals. I support TNR programs and aggressive spay/neuter policies in shelters and municipal animal control. But I think the future will be in some form of widely-applied contraceptives or drugs leading to infertility for free-roaming feral cats... That is something I find really intriguing about the possibilities for research!!

What a great day that will be when there is a product that will help control ferals humanely (via prevention, rather than trap and kill) and relieve the pressure on shelters, wildlife and public funds...

I just hope it comes sooner, rather than later.

 

[BartonVet87]

AnimalLover24,

I was a tech for 4 years in a rural mixed animal practice and assisted with more euthanasias than I care to think about. I think the number of euths will vary depending on what kind of community you work in. Being a small, lower income community, a lot of the clients couldn't afford to treat their animals and opted for euthanasia simply because it was cheaper. Terrible, I know, but I just wanted you to consider this. I wish we could treat every animal within the clients financial means, but this isn't the case.

Also, when I interviewed at Illinois a lot of my questions involved euthanasia. How did I feel about it, how would I handle putting down a client's animal, etc. I mentioned my research with mice, growing up on a farm (cattle/hogs), and my experiences as a tech. I don't know how they would have reacted if I had told them that I didn't believe in euthanasia.

nyanko: "I think that one of the best parts of veterinary medicine as opposed to human medicine is that we have the opportunity to end our patients' suffering before it becomes unbearable, and the pet can die with some dignity when there's no hope for an acceptable quality of life (by the owner's and pet's standards) without it. Being able to release them from pain without prolonging their agony is one of the best things an owner and a vet can do for an animal in this situation."
🙂Very nicely put!🙂

...just my two cents...

 

[fetch]

One technician's perspective:

http://whatikilledtoday.blogspot.com/

Surely this has been posted before?

 

[DrKsomeday]

It isn't that I think it is immoral or wrong. It is something that I know I would have to do eventually and I think I would be fine with it eventually but right now I just don't know how I could do it, at least not right now. This is coming from a guy who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Well, I have been in your shoes to the point that I made an appointment with the Associate Dean of my State Vet School. We talked about my background, mapped out course plan to get all of my pre-requisites done, and then I asked him basically your questions. I was worried because I'm not against it but I do have issues with euthanasia or I guess I should say I had concerns back then. For some reason when I started this process I felt like I had to be just fine with it and almost cold to the practice. I was really mistaken. You know what the Associate Dean told me? He said he wouldn't want me as a Vet student if I hadn’t debated these issues first. He told me that the concise awareness of the responsibility of that act is what will make a person a very good and relatable vet and he was very reassuring that most students experience this on some level at some point (some probable very early on). His comments relieved a lot of my stress at that time. He also wanted me to get experience in a clinic setting to see what the Vets deal with day in day out to make sure I could come to a better understanding of its benefits and responsibility Vets face.

I have found over time that the more I understand the medical issues surrounding why a pet is PTS that I opt for it more than I would when I knew very little about things. This has carried through to aggressive pets and the not so clear cut cases that clinics face on a day to day basis. I assume this understanding and growth will continue in vet school. Just my experience with this issue.

I also agree that contraceptive is key to feral cat control and oh how much I want to reduce the pet overpopulation epidemic with aggressive spay/neuter programs. One I love is www.snkc.net/.

 

[ShelterGirl]

He told me that the concise awareness of the responsibility of that act is what will make a person a very good and relatable vet ...

It's a huge responsibility, and I agree - everyone has probably been through this deliberation at one point or another. I used to think that PTS was horrible - until my own cat had a stroke and we discovered he had kidney cancer and he wasn't mentally there anymore - just circling aimlessly. I couldn't let him live like that.
Getting experience is what helped me the most, though. By witnessing and assisting with numerous euths, I learned that it is generally a quick and painless way to ease the suffering of a pet. I also had to take a class to become a certified euth tech in my state, and learning about the mechanism of the drug and about reflexes can that occur after death helped as well.

Good luck - if you hadn't given serious thought to the issue, I wouldn't want you as my vet

 

[CanadianGolden]

Euthanasia means good death. That's all I need to hear to be able to do it (or have it done on one of my animals). I wish that (voluntary, very controlled) euthanasia was legal in humans. It is much crueler to keep a suffering, terminal animal alive than to allow it to die peacefully.

 

[Starwrecker]

Euthanasia means good death. That's all I need to hear to be able to do it (or have it done on one of my animals). I wish that (voluntary, very controlled) euthanasia was legal in humans. It is much crueler to keep a suffering, terminal animal alive than to allow it to die peacefully.

AMEN!

 

[Biomajir]

When I first started volunteering at the clinic that I now work at, I was really worried about euthanasia as well. I just didn't think I would ever be able to help end an animal's life. I think what really helped me feel alright about it was when we had this huge pitbull come in, and it was very very sick. There was no way any amount of medical care could have saved him and so putting him down was the best option. As the solution started going through the catheter, he immediately slumped down and then started to snore. For some reason seeing that he actually "went to sleep" really made me feel better about it. He just lay there and snored until finally his heart stopped. Ever since then I have been alright with it. Don't know if that will help but it did me.

 

[Kara31191]

Let me put it this way:

I'm a teenager who has a strong bond to animals.

I can't see one suffer and it truly makes me upset when an animal is hurt, obviously. I am not an insensitive person, but more sensitive than most other people. I was nervous to see a surgery and I couldn't bare the thought of euthanasia.

I worked for a local vet and although euthanasia isn't exactly "routine", there are some days when I just hope that all of those animals I see suffering would just be euthanized. It's not an ugly scene. It's so sad actually.

Most of the animals our clinic euthanizes are wildlife who've lost certain abilities, or reg dogs/cats/birds/etc who no longer can survive without constant pain.

Basically, what I'm saying is if I can bear it, you can too. It's actually pretty pleasant situation for some pets and their owners. Much better than letting the animal wait it out! 🙁

 

[athenaparthenos]

No, Oregon's terminal surgeries are required. WSU's are optional, and Western does not allow it in its curriculum (one reason of several why I prefer both of those schools to Oregon).

The only thing that will change (or not change) your mind about euthanasia is actually getting vet experience and seeing it performed. I worried about how I would feel about euthanasia, having euthanized some animals for lab and felt very sorry for them (and also rather guilty). However, my first day at the clinic a woman brought in a neighborhood stray cat whose kidneys were shriveled to the size of peas, who only weighed 4 pounds, was a shorthair cat but covered in mats and smelling of urine and feces, whose gums were greyish-white, and whose mouth and rotting teeth smelled like death. We euthanized it and I found I was glad that the cat no longer had to live that stumbling, painful, shriveled existence anymore. Since then, a year and a half ago, I cannot think of any euthanasias I've been present for that were not a blessing. Sure they're sad -- especially seeing the owners grieve, especially if they're a sweet pet of a long-term client. But when you look into the eyes of a dying animal and see its suffering staring you baldly back, then you know that euthanasia is the kindest and gentlest thing you can do for them, to let them go quickly and painlessly.

Our family had to euthanize a pet for the very first time last week -- our 10-year-old Lab who was perfectly healthy one day and then started vomiting massive amounts of blood the next day. By the time we got her to emergency she was cold and pale and no longer herself, mentally. The doctor said her prognosis was very grim (likely an undiscovered tumor, bleeding out)... we all felt it would be far kinder to let Mindy go with her family around her now before she had to suffer any more. We had the option of trying to keep her alive, trying to save her, but the vet didn't believe it would work, and we did not want to put her through that and force her to keep bleeding and keep losing herself. We made the decision to let her go and I do not regret it in the slightest, as Mindy was already halfway gone and it would have been cruel to try and force her to stay when her body simply couldn't do it. Does that mean we don't feel sad? Of course not. But I'm glad that her suffering wasn't prolonged, and I'm glad a vet was there to help her.

I will fight as hard as I can to never do euthanasias purely for client convenience (no I am not euthing your cat because it peed on your couch!) but I will be glad to help clients gently say goodbye to their companions, and end their suffering.

 

[CalpardNY]

I don't really have an issue with it myself - in fact i see it as more humane in some ways (as others have explained). I grew up in a medical oriented family (mother is a social worker father is an MD) and sometimes it really just seems like the best option, and though obviously would be a source of much contention, could sometimes be very implicative in human medicine.

Anyway, when I was 10 my dog who had been living with cancer for 5 years finally got really sick. Even at that age I realized it was the best thing for her and while it pained me, it wouldn't do any good to be selfish and keep her around. As posted a lot its easy to understand in cases like this why its easier to accept. The other day at work a 17 year old cat that came in so dehydrated and in such liver failure she was dark yellow. (The family was procrastinating brining her into the vet for 10 days because they were afraid she would be euthanized - so at this point she was really ill). The vet went to go shave her for a catheter and her skin came off to exposing yellow dry muscle. The cat didn't even flinch. It was so sad and we both knew this cat needed to go to heaven (thats what we say at work!). There are so many times owners are hanging on and i feel for the pet b/c they look so miserable.

While i have always felt this way about euthanasia i was struck by an interesting concept when i started working at the AMC. Its a policy that their interns can not say no if someone comes in to euthanize a pet. Now they can obviously try to dissuade the owners, go to a clinician for support or another voice, but they arent supposed to blatantly refuse. (Rarely do convenience euthanasia come in and these are the cases that they go to clinicians for back up). It just struck me that even though I was ok with euthanasia sometimes we come across situations we might take up issue with, and thats something I might have to face in my career. Just some food for thought!

 

[lenadeb]

It isn't that I think it is immoral or wrong. It is something that I know I would have to do eventually and I think I would be fine with it eventually but right now I just don't know how I could do it, at least not right now. This is coming from a guy who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Is there any statistics that would show any kind of info pertaining to roughly how many euthanizations a vet would do in, say, a year? I don't know if it is an everyday occurrence or what.

This is really just my toughest obstacle right now. I love every other aspect of being a vet and I realize nobody obviously loves to put animals to sleep but that is something I'm just going to have to "de-sensitive" to.

Try to get more field experience and reconsider your notions and definition of "every other aspect of being a vet". If you haven't made a decision on the issues you will face then it is time to step back and ask yourself if you are being realistic about vet med as a career decision. Euthanasia is often one of the kindest things you can do as a vet.

I work in a very busy 24-hour hospital with emergency and ICU services. Some weeks there are 3-4 PTS and on some weekends it seems we may be doing a PTS every few hours; once we did 5 from 8a to noon. We get the weekend problems when nobody else is open. Figure overall on average maybe 7 a week and sometimes as high as 15?

The toughest one I ever did was a 110 pound lab/St. Bernard mix. Sweet old guy of 14. He had arthritis and cancer. His owner, a regular client, showed up and said he had made a promise to that big old dog not to let it suffer, so it was time. He paid for the service and left Chance with me as the doc went to get the pink stuff. We put him down in the exam room and as the euthasol was injected in I was petting that old dog on the head and said "now you can go play at the Bridge". He suddenly turned his head and looked right up at me. Right into my eyes. He was peaceful and calm and he slipped away as I held his head. No more pain. And he didn't die alone.

A good death.

I support humane euthanasia. And I know Chance did, too. His eyes told me so.