Has your school withheld grades as punishment?

[GlowInTheDark]

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Is that even legal?

For the second time this year my class will have its grades withheld until task "xyz" is completed.

 

[oingoboingo]

That's stupid but I'm sure it is legal. What sort of "xyz" tasks has your class been delinquent in?

 

[GUH]

That sounds very, very weird to me. My school (OMS-1 here) has not done that so far and now we see exam scores the same day.

 

[Starry]

My undergrad does with financial bars, registration bars, other bars tht I don't know about. I can't get an official transcript unless these bars are lifted.

How would it be illegal?

 

[costales]

Course grade or exam grade? Unless it involves discrimination or a due process violation, they can do pretty much whatever they want.

 

[hallowmann]

That's weird. We see grades usually within 24 hrs, except for PBL (and occasionally OPP), which we get after a few days (1 week at most). PBL directors have said that we will be docked 15 min of time on PBL exams if we don't turn in facilitator evaluations beforehand though.

I'm sure it varies by school, they can do whatever they want.

 

[KGflyboy]

There have been lawsuits over schools withholding transcripts/diplomas in the past. I'm not referring specifically to med schools though. Courts have set and maintained a precedent that grades/transcripts are the property of the students. They cannot be withheld. Schools have policies that may contradict what I'm saying, but when it comes time to graduate, they cannot legally keep your diploma or refuse transcript requests. There are laws that require schools to provide academic records to other institutions within "x" days of the requests, but I'm not sure if they vary by state or are federal laws.

As far as withholding section grades and test grades, which is what it sounds like your school is doing, it is legal. They aren't required to post your grades on blackboard/return graded tests to you within any amount of time. It's not a big deal, although I can see why it would be frustrating to those anxiously awaiting their grades.

 

[Igor4sugry]

Is that even legal?

For the second time this year my class will have its grades withheld until task "xyz" is completed.

lecom had a pattern of holding on to grades for entire class until class survey was completed.

 

[costales]

There have been lawsuits over schools withholding transcripts/diplomas in the past. I'm not referring specifically to med schools though. Courts have set and maintained a precedent that grades/transcripts are the property of the students. They cannot be withheld. Schools have policies that may contradict what I'm saying, but when it comes time to graduate, they cannot legally keep your diploma or refuse transcript requests. There are laws that require schools to provide academic records to other institutions within "x" days of the requests, but I'm not sure if they vary by state or are federal laws.

I'm pretty sure it's standard policy - and legal - for schools to withhold transcripts from students who owe money, except in bankruptcy cases. If a student needs a transcript urgently for a job, the school may choose to send it directly to the employer - but it's really up to the school, e.g. http://www.cm-life.com/2012/08/27/incorrect-diplomas/.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

These are exam grades. It's actually the 3rd time.

First was for not enrolling in a notification system. Second was when everyone hadnt completed assignments (for the most busy work laden 1 credit course you could ever imagine) , if they were late you didn't get credit, but nobody in the class got their grade until they were done.

This time is for completing course and professor evaluations.

 

[primadonna22274]

Oh so glad I'm almost done...good luck

 

[DocVapor]

These are exam grades. It's actually the 3rd time.

First was for not enrolling in a notification system. Second was when everyone hadnt completed assignments (for the most busy work laden 1 credit course you could ever imagine) , if they were late you didn't get credit, but nobody in the class got their grade until they were done.

This time is for completing course and professor evaluations.

I feel like the question should be: Why are my classmates being delinquent about these simple tasks, and how could I inspire them to just suck it up and do it?

 

[Goro]

My school does and yes, it's quite legal.

Is that even legal?

For the second time this year my class will have its grades withheld until task "xyz" is completed.

 

[Mad Jack]

Is that even legal?
For the second time this year my class will have its grades withheld until task "xyz" is completed.

Is this your dean?

I'm kind of surprised they'd withhold grades though, it just seems like a ridiculous punishment.

 

[hallowmann]

lecom had a pattern of holding on to grades for entire class until class survey was completed.

Definitely believable. Fortunately, my class hasn't had an issue with this... or at least not one I can remember... but after months of med school my memory of normal things isn't exactly like it once was.

These are exam grades. It's actually the 3rd time.

First was for not enrolling in a notification system. Second was when everyone hadnt completed assignments (for the most busy work laden 1 credit course you could ever imagine) , if they were late you didn't get credit, but nobody in the class got their grade until they were done.

This time is for completing course and professor evaluations.

Wait... you must be at LECOM. That all sounds eerily familiar. BHS? Really though, why does it matter? A 1 credit course is meaningless in the grand scheme of 30-40 credits a semester. As long as you passed, I'd just let them take however long they want.

I feel like the question should be: Why are my classmates being delinquent about these simple tasks, and how could I inspire them to just suck it up and do it?

Seriously, this...

 

[BuddyTheElf]

Is that even legal?

For the second time this year my class will have its grades withheld until task "xyz" is completed.

They do it at my school. At least they used to... students freaked out over it and I'm not sure if they do it anymore. They had withheld final exam scores until you completed a course eval & professor eval.

That's weird. We see grades usually within 24 hrs, except for PBL (and occasionally OPP), which we get after a few days (1 week at most). PBL directors have said that we will be docked 15 min of time on PBL exams if we don't turn in facilitator evaluations beforehand though.

I'm sure it varies by school, they can do whatever they want.

Wow, within 24 hours???? That's awesome. We just had a huge neuro exam that took over a week to get scores back. And OPP practicals have taken several weeks to get scores back to us. smh.

 

[sylvanthus]

They can withhold your grades for whatever stupid reason they want. Its laughable when it is a course/professor eval however, as they should know damn well students are going to just click randomly and get it done so they get their grades. There are few, if any, that will take those evals seriously at that point.

 

[KGflyboy]

There is a lot of misinformation floating around about student rights. It is not legal to withhold a grade, but a lot of people here seem to be convinced otherwise. Some schools do it because they think they can get away with it temporarily, which is usually true. But if a student exercises his or her rights under the law, the school must disclose all records, including grades. I will paste the appropriate section of ferpa that establishes this right.

§99.10 What rights exist for a parent or eligible student to inspect and review education records?
(a) Except as limited under §99.12, a parent or eligible student must be given the opportunity to inspect and review the student's education records. This provision applies to—

(1) Any educational agency or institution; and

(2) Any State educational agency (SEA) and its components.

(i) For the purposes of subpart B of this part, an SEA and its components constitute an educational agency or institution.

(ii) An SEA and its components are subject to subpart B of this part if the SEA maintains education records on students who are or have been in attendance at any school of an educational agency or institution subject to the Act and this part.

(b) The educational agency or institution, or SEA or its component, shall comply with a request for access to records within a reasonable period of time, but not more than 45 days after it has received the request.

(c) The educational agency or institution, or SEA or its component shall respond to reasonable requests for explanations and interpretations of the records.

(d) If circumstances effectively prevent the parent or eligible student from exercising the right to inspect and review the student's education records, the educational agency or institution, or SEA or its component, shall—

(1) Provide the parent or eligible student with a copy of the records requested; or

(2) Make other arrangements for the parent or eligible student to inspect and review the requested records.

(e) The educational agency or institution, or SEA or its component shall not destroy any education records if there is an outstanding request to inspect and review the records under this section.

(f) While an education agency or institution is not required to give an eligible student access to treatment records under paragraph (b)(4) of the definition of Education records in §99.3, the student may have those records reviewed by a physician or other appropriate professional of the student's choice.

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1232g(a)(1) (A) and (B))

[53 FR 11943, Apr. 11, 1988, as amended at 61 FR 59296, Nov. 21, 1996]

 

[costales]

Grades which are still kept by faculty and have not been posted to a student's official record by the registrar are not considered "education records" under FERPA. They are exempted under the category of "records that are kept in the sole possession of the maker."

 

[hallowmann]

Grades which are still kept by faculty and have not been posted to a student's official record by the registrar are not considered "education records" under FERPA. They are exempted under the category of "records that are kept in the sole possession of the maker."

This. I'm guessing that until the courses are over and its the end of the semester, students don't have a legal right to their grades.

 

[KGflyboy]

Grades which are still kept by faculty and have not been posted to a student's official record by the registrar are not considered "education records" under FERPA. They are exempted under the category of "records that are kept in the sole possession of the maker."

This. I'm guessing that until the courses are over and its the end of the semester, students don't have a legal right to their grades.

Not true. This quote is from the section of the Code of Federal Regulations that establishes the FERPA.
(1) Records that are kept in the sole possession of the maker, are used only as a personal memory aid, and are not accessible or revealed to any other person except a temporary substitute for the maker of the record.

Grades are not "personal memory aids."

 

[hallowmann]

Not true. This quote is from the section of the Code of Federal Regulations that establishes the FERPA.
(1) Records that are kept in the sole possession of the maker, are used only as a personal memory aid, and are not accessible or revealed to any other person except a temporary substitute for the maker of the record.

Grades are not "personal memory aids."

Still not seeing how you can make the distinction between someone's grade being "education records" vs. "record kept in the possession of the maker" prior to being sent to the registrar/being made your "official" grade. What we are talking about are grades that are essentially "unofficial" and could easily be argued as used as a "personal memory aid" because they aren't a matter of the "education record" of the student yet.

In other words, it can easily be argued that these grades cannot be classified as "education record" until they are in fact in an educational record. The grades we are talking about haven't reached that point yet.

 

[dermpathdoc]

These are exam grades. It's actually the 3rd time.

First was for not enrolling in a notification system. Second was when everyone hadnt completed assignments (for the most busy work laden 1 credit course you could ever imagine) , if they were late you didn't get credit, but nobody in the class got their grade until they were done.

This time is for completing course and professor evaluations.

Isn't this a lack of professionalism On the part of your classmates to not get the required evaluations/ reports in on time???