have you volunteered overseas ? how was it ?

[harmonious]

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i could go to Belize for this.

 

[capnncrunch]

Medically? No. But, I would say that my mission trip was most certainly a life-changing experience. It gave me a perspective that no other experience could ever warrant.

 

[Planes2Doc]

If you genuinely care about a certain population somewhere in the world, then by all means do it. If you're looking to pad your medical school application and think that this will look great to ADCOMs, it won't. They will tell you repeatedly that these short commitments are meaningless, and might even make your application look worse if you make it the centerpiece. If you're looking for an excuse to go on an exotic vacation, then spend the money you would have spent on this trip to go to an even more exotic and fun place than Belize. You'll have more fun that way.

 

[capnncrunch]

If you genuinely care about a certain population somewhere in the world, then by all means do it. If you're looking to pad your medical school application and think that this will look great to ADCOMs, it won't. They will tell you repeatedly that these short commitments are meaningless, and might even make your application look worse if you make it the centerpiece. If you're looking for an excuse to go on an exotic vacation, then spend the money you would have spent on this trip to go to an even more exotic and fun place than Belize. You'll have more fun that way.

I'd really like to hear about that from @Goro or @LizzyM or any other ADCOM member. Regardless of meaning, I think I would be safe to say that calling an overseas volunteering experience a "meaningless" venture is absurd. Being part of a global health org, there is significant proof that these commitments have purpose. It's up to the organization to make the experience worthwhile, not the individual. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point? In any case, I feel like these commitments at least show concern for others. I doubt anyone is going to invest $1500+ just to butter up their med school resume but what do I know... I didn't come from a life of luxury.

 

[allantois]

I will once again refer to the guidelines established by AAMC
https://www.aamc.org/download/181690/data/guidelinesforstudentsprovidingpatientcare.pdf

Also, if something costs $1500 it does not mean it will provide you with good experiences, it could just as well be a fraudulent company.

 

[Aerus]

I'd really like to hear about that from @Goro or @LizzyM or any other ADCOM member. Regardless of meaning, I think I would be safe to say that calling an overseas volunteering experience a "meaningless" venture is absurd. Being part of a global health org, there is significant proof that these commitments have purpose. It's up to the organization to make the experience worthwhile, not the individual. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point? In any case, I feel like these commitments at least show concern for others. I doubt anyone is going to invest $1500+ just to butter up their med school resume but what do I know... I didn't come from a life of luxury.

They've already given their input in the past. Unless it's for an extended period of time, it's not going to be a huge plus on your application.

So many premeds do these sort of medical "tourism" trips that it won't make you stand out at all. In fact, some concerns have been brought up in the past regarding premeds looking for ways to get more "hands on experience" with these sort of trips, which has potential to be medically unethical. Also, if you truly did care about these populations, why not donate your $1500+ plane ticket to that population, so that a real doctor with actual skills can be hired. A premed without any skills won't make much of a difference in 2-3 weeks passing out blankets and band-aids.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I'd really like to hear about that from @Goro or @LizzyM or any other ADCOM member. Regardless of meaning, I think I would be safe to say that calling an overseas volunteering experience a "meaningless" venture is absurd. Being part of a global health org, there is significant proof that these commitments have purpose. It's up to the organization to make the experience worthwhile, not the individual. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point? In any case, I feel like these commitments at least show concern for others. I doubt anyone is going to invest $1500+ just to butter up their med school resume but what do I know... I didn't come from a life of luxury.

If they don't reply in this thread, then this past one has a few tidbits from them that you'd be interested in reading: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-medical-mission-trip-question.1052640/

Also, if you truly did care about these populations, why not donate your $1500+ plane ticket to that population, so that a real doctor with actual skills can be hired.

Cutting a check to an organization will help that local population, but it won't help your medical school application.

 

[zen006]

I lived lived overseas for two years and volunteered at an organization that focused on health. It was amazing experience. And I was on a fellowship so I didn't have to pay a dime. I would say it was worth while.

 

[capnncrunch]

I don't know. I see your point in terms of the monetary investment, but what a donation doesn't do is build an internal drive to make change. Granted, this may only happen to some, it is still possible. If evidenced through the application of personal change, I don't see a problem. Maybe this is taboo to say, but I truly feel a medical mission trip or even a non-medical mission trip (my experience) is more than some vacation with an added bonus of doctor shadowing. Personally, I was changed through my trip and I will always be a strong proponent of doing it at least once. My entire personal statement, without giving too much detail, stemmed from my experience. Like I've said in another post, I'm not going to alter myself to accomodate an ADCOM member.

 

[Aerus]

I don't know. I see your point in terms of the monetary investment, but what a donation doesn't do is build an internal drive to make change. Granted, this may only happen to some, it is still possible. If evidenced through the application of personal change, I don't see a problem. Maybe this is taboo to say, but I truly feel a medical mission trip or even a non-medical mission trip (my experience) is more than some vacation with an added bonus of doctor shadowing. Personally, I was changed through my trip and I will always be a strong proponent of doing it at least once. My entire personal statement, without giving too much detail, stemmed from my experience. Like I've said in another post, I'm not going to alter myself to accomodate an ADCOM member.

Build an internal drive to make change?!

The countries that these medical mission trips are targeting will be less likely to change themselves, internally, because medical missions have the dangerous potential to build a "foreign-dependent" attitude. LizzyM posted a really insightful thesis about the criticisms of medical brigades in Honduras in that thread that Planes2Doc linked. You should read it: http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/8620/1/Bradke.pdf

 

[kyamh]

My international volunteering experience was a very good idea for me. Do I think it changed my application in any appreciable way? Probably not. I'm talking about other benefits.

1. The trip was an overall beneficial experience to me as a person, as others have pointed out - I could go on longer but it wouldn't be anything new.
2. I had a chance to get to know a diverse group of medical professionals in a laid-back setting where everyone was eager to share their opinions/experiences/advice with me concerning my potential future career in healthcare. Compared to a typical shadowing experience, I was able to form much more meaningful relationships and was able to ask questions I may not have felt comfortable asking someone I just met.
3. I ended up shadowing everyone who went on the trip 🙂
4. People on SDN need to remember that not all international medical trips are fancy expensive whims of the rich. My college gave out grants for exactly these kinds of short projects/trips/experiences to students who applied - there are funding sources available through outside groups as well.

 

[yanks26dmb]

My take is this: if you're paying 4 figures to be taken on some trip to hand out supplies and play with little kids, it's kind of meaningless and potentially counterproductive. However, if you find yourself overseas and are able to do something to benefit an organization, the people, etc. why not? Would also like to hear what @Goro has to say here too.

Case in point, I was on a 2.5 month trip across Asia last year. I had a friend in Myanmar whom I had met previously, whose family runs a series of health clinics across the country. He was able to hook me up with a organization (by organization, I mean a good samaritan and a few assistants) who drove around Yangon and the surrounding areas handing out medical supplies, transporting people to clinics/hospitals, and all around making sure people got what they needed. I road with this guy for two full weeks, handing out supplies, taking people to clinics, and generally providing a source of entertainment when they'd see a white guy stroll into their homes. While I don't think my presence and/or assistance made a huge difference, I do think seeing first hand what life is like for the poorest of the poor made a profound impact on me. These people had such inaccessibility to care, it was unbelievable...if or when I become a doctor I absolutely want to work with an organization like doctors without borders or spend some time each year in a country like Myanmar helping the local population.

So from this standpoint, I didn't pay a dime to do this, and although my short-term involvement probably didnt do a ton, it opened my eyes and helped create one more future doctor sympathetic to the plight of people like those I met. This, I would say is the big takeaway.

 

[DokterMom]

If you want to make an impression on AdComs, go to the poorest of the poor section of the US (or your own city) and volunteer there. Removing the glamor of an international trip brings your altruism to the forefront and provides most of the experiences of a different culture with none of the 'medical vacation taint'.

 

[Goro]

Unless you can produce an LOR from a preceptor or supervisor about what you did on the trip, Adcoms view these as "medical tourism" at best, or a backhanded way of taking a vacation and calling "medical mission" at the worst.

Merely going to a 3rd World country and seeing how bad people live there, and calling it an epiphany, reeks of privilege and shortsightedness, unless you subsequently did something to back up your change of heart, like found a successful charity, or join the Peace Corps.

i could go to Belize for this.

DokterMom gets it.
If you want to make an impression on AdComs, go to the poorest of the poor section of the US (or your own city) and volunteer there. Removing the glamor of an international trip brings your altruism to the forefront and provides most of the experiences of a different culture with none of the 'medical vacation taint'.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Unless you can produce an LOR from a preceptor or supervisor about what you did on the trip, Adcoms view these as "medical tourism" at best, or a backhanded way of taking a vacation and calling "medical mission" at the worst.

Merely going to a 3rd World country and seeing how bad people live there, and calling it an epiphany, reeks of privilege and shortsightedness, unless you subsequently did something to back up your change of heart, like found a successful charity, or join the Peace Corps.



DokterMom gets it.
If you want to make an impression on AdComs, go to the poorest of the poor section of the US (or your own city) and volunteer there. Removing the glamor of an international trip brings your altruism to the forefront and provides most of the experiences of a different culture with none of the 'medical vacation taint'.

Think I shouldn't even mention my experience Goro? I don't know if I had an epiphany, but it certainly made me more sure of my decision to go into primary care. I certainly don't want to come across as you described though...

 

[Goro]

It will have to be worded the right way!

Think I shouldn't even mention my experience Goro? I don't know if I had an epiphany, but it certainly made me more sure of my decision to go into primary care. I certainly don't want to come across as you described though...

 

[GypsyHummus]

Unless you can produce an LOR from a preceptor or supervisor about what you did on the trip, Adcoms view these as "medical tourism" at best, or a backhanded way of taking a vacation and calling "medical mission" at the worst.

Merely going to a 3rd World country and seeing how bad people live there, and calling it an epiphany, reeks of privilege and shortsightedness, unless you subsequently did something to back up your change of heart, like found a successful charity, or join the Peace Corps.



DokterMom gets it.
If you want to make an impression on AdComs, go to the poorest of the poor section of the US (or your own city) and volunteer there. Removing the glamor of an international trip brings your altruism to the forefront and provides most of the experiences of a different culture with none of the 'medical vacation taint'.

I can't stand this. There are so many people at my University that do these "Medical Mission Trips" to poor countries and act like they had a "life changing experience".

And then they get all smug about it! Always reminding people that they went to Africa or wherever the heck they were, Posting pictures on Facebook of them in the operating room all scrubbed up "Future Doctor, Look at Me!" and then talking about it in their interviews. Grinds my gears like crazy.

Yeah, take public transport, go to inner city Georgia, volunteer at that clinic for a week, and then talk to me about working as a Primary Care Physician with the medically undeserved. Ever seen patients on the sidewalk with open wounds on their feet waiting outside of the clinic? How about people who have pulled their own teeth out because they couldn't afford a dentist? That is medically underserved and spoiler alert, it happens in America.

 

[allantois]

I can't stand this. There are so many people at my University that do these "Medical Mission Trips" to poor countries and act like they had a "life changing experience".
.

There's this one guy at my school who drives me absolutely crazy. His profile pic on fb is of him someplace in Africa wearing a white coat (apparently from Chem lab) and a stethoscope on his neck 😵. It's like wth, you were there for a week giving out bandages to people who you could never understand. Oh, and he also has a hundred more pictures of their "humanitarian" group sightseeing the area.

 

[BeancheBlanco]

I know someone who did one of these trips and was accepted to multiple medical schools. He told me that at the interviews, the schools seemed most interested in this particular experience. All schools are different though and it depends on how you spin it and what you make of it. Honestly, these experiences get so much hate on SDN and I don't understand why. They are clinical experiences with a unique community. There's a lot to learn there. People act like if you go overseas to do clinical work instead of doing it in America, you suddenly become a "box-checking, ruthless, heartless, insincere, pre-med gunner"

 

[Essee]

I volunteered abroad (non-medical) in the context of having had significant involvement with the organization locally for 3+ years and a long term working relationship with that specific community. We went only to see and evaluate the effects our efforts at home had, and it was a great experience.

That said, only go if you have a compelling reason to.

Global issues are nuanced and sometimes many volunteer abroad organizations are for profit under the guise of being "helpful". This often happens with medical missions abroad for undergrads and they can easily become unethical or actually undermine sustainable global health solutions if the organization is not careful. A will to do good doesn't mean they actually do good. Do your research on organizations. There are plenty of ways to help. Don't just go on any trip for the sake of trying to look altruistic. IMO, it actually comes off ignorant to the actual issues sometimes.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I know someone who did one of these trips and was accepted to multiple medical schools. He told me that at the interviews, the schools seemed most interested in this particular experience. All schools are different though and it depends on how you spin it and what you make of it. Honestly, these experiences get so much hate on SDN and I don't understand why. They are clinical experiences with a unique community. There's a lot to learn there. People act like if you go overseas to do clinical work instead of doing it in America, you suddenly become a "box-checking, ruthless, heartless, insincere, pre-med gunner"

It's nothing more than double-standards my friend... Here's another double-standards example. If you volunteer at a local free clinic and do things that go beyond your scope of practice as a volunteer (assisting in a medical procedure), you're considered a hero on SDN. If you do the same exact thing on a medical mission trip, you're treated as a horrible immoral person only trying to take advantage of the poor.

Also when people get heavily involved in a specific process, they start to see things in a very narrow mindset. A terrific example of this was the Kony 2012 video. Before that video, people had no idea who Kony was nor cared about the child soldiers in Uganda. Suddenly when the video surfaced, everyone was hugely passionate about it. If you didn't post the video, people would attack you saying that you're a horrible individual because you don't care about the child soldiers in Uganda. And two days later, everyone forgets about Kony and the child soldiers in Uganda.

With medical school admissions, you suddenly have people who never volunteered before all of a sudden care deeply about the underserved in our society. Some of them get so involved in the process that they will attack anyone who isn't volunteering. So then, what happened before you were a pre-med? Did you always care about helping the underserved? 🙄 Then when they become medical students, it becomes a process of gunning for derm. Surprise!!!

Yeah it's a funny world we live in. It's best to navigate the pre-med process as effectively as possible. It just gets really annoying when you have these cheerleaders giving you crap about not caring even though they never cared until they became pre-med.

 

[kyamh]

No one said there isn't a selfish component to going on an international trip, but if you get a chance (especially for free) to experience something new and go to a part of the world you have never been to before, why not?

I don't think that anyone who goes on these trips considers themselves exempt from volunteering in the US like any other premed. Some people pay lots of money over four years in frat/sorority/society/club/team dues so they can party, have certain types of friends, etc, others pay for this experience.

 

[motz]

They've already given their input in the past. Unless it's for an extended period of time, it's not going to be a huge plus on your application.

So many premeds do these sort of medical "tourism" trips that it won't make you stand out at all. In fact, some concerns have been brought up in the past regarding premeds looking for ways to get more "hands on experience" with these sort of trips, which has potential to be medically unethical. Also, if you truly did care about these populations, why not donate your $1500+ plane ticket to that population, so that a real doctor with actual skills can be hired. A premed without any skills won't make much of a difference in 2-3 weeks passing out blankets and band-aids.

$1500 donated to that population might hurt even worse, since you're paying for stuff they'll get for free which depresses the local economy and increases a reliance on foreign aid. Going there and being a tourist helps their economy in an organic way. Going to these places might not help people, but it will change the perspectives of those who go there.

 

[motz]

I know someone who did one of these trips and was accepted to multiple medical schools. He told me that at the interviews, the schools seemed most interested in this particular experience. All schools are different though and it depends on how you spin it and what you make of it. Honestly, these experiences get so much hate on SDN and I don't understand why. They are clinical experiences with a unique community. There's a lot to learn there. People act like if you go overseas to do clinical work instead of doing it in America, you suddenly become a "box-checking, ruthless, heartless, insincere, pre-med gunner"

Schools might also be checking for BS.

 

[Aerus]

$1500 donated to that population might hurt even worse, since you're paying for stuff they'll get for free which depresses the local economy and increases a reliance on foreign aid. Going there and being a tourist helps their economy in an organic way. Going to these places might not help people, but it will change the perspectives of those who go there.

Donating $1500 to pay for a bunch of free medical supplies and giving them to random people there is different from donating $1500 to a local clinic there so that they could hire more staff and/or pay for more/newer equipment.

My take is this: if you're paying 4 figures to be taken on some trip to hand out supplies and play with little kids, it's kind of meaningless and potentially counterproductive. However, if you find yourself overseas and are able to do something to benefit an organization, the people, etc. why not? Would also like to hear what @Goro has to say here too.

Case in point, I was on a 2.5 month trip across Asia last year. I had a friend in Myanmar whom I had met previously, whose family runs a series of health clinics across the country. He was able to hook me up with a organization (by organization, I mean a good samaritan and a few assistants) who drove around Yangon and the surrounding areas handing out medical supplies, transporting people to clinics/hospitals, and all around making sure people got what they needed. I road with this guy for two full weeks, handing out supplies, taking people to clinics, and generally providing a source of entertainment when they'd see a white guy stroll into their homes. While I don't think my presence and/or assistance made a huge difference, I do think seeing first hand what life is like for the poorest of the poor made a profound impact on me. These people had such inaccessibility to care, it was unbelievable...if or when I become a doctor I absolutely want to work with an organization like doctors without borders or spend some time each year in a country like Myanmar helping the local population.

So from this standpoint, I didn't pay a dime to do this, and although my short-term involvement probably didnt do a ton, it opened my eyes and helped create one more future doctor sympathetic to the plight of people like those I met. This, I would say is the big takeaway.

I'm purely differentiating between 2-3 week medical tourism and longer trips, like yours. You could probably do a bit more in 2.5 months. I can't imagine doing that much in a few weeks.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Donating $1500 to pay for a bunch of free medical supplies and giving them to random people there is different from donating $1500 to a local clinic there so that they could hire more staff and/or pay for more/newer equipment.



I'm purely differentiating between 2-3 week medical tourism and longer trips, like yours. You could probably do a bit more in 2.5 months. I can't imagine doing that much in a few weeks.

Well I was in Asia for 2.5 months but while there I volunteered over a 2 week stint. I guess my point was it wasn't planned and I didn't pay to do it. I just did it because I was there and I wanted to. I think there's a difference between shelling out thousands to do something and what i did.

That said I'm not delusional, I don't think my 2 week involvement was life changing for anyone involved, but nonetheless it still felt good to help out some people in need and expose myself to something I wouldn't have seen otherwise.

 

[Skull Pell]

Here's my deal: I grew up in a 3rd world country and migrated to the US when I was 19. Not until I really established myself (i.e. got clinical entry-level jobs, did well on school) was I able to attend an alternative spring break trip this year. It was the first of its kind at my univ so I hopped in on it and became a "health delegate" in a country in Latin America.

I secured medical donations such as sterile dressings, first aid kits etc from an NGO who worked already in the population in the exact city and country that we were going to. Depending on which major/job exp we presented posters on public health in different locations; I did "general wound care" since I used my 2.5 years exp as a hospital tech and put it in my poster. I just talked about general guidelines that they could do to properly take care of themselves and talked about how they can use the things that they already have because our sterile supply donations to the rural clinics that we went to obviously can't last forever. I then applied to become a leader and got the position for the 2nd health delegation for next year.

One of my plans is to use all that I have learned (planning, donations, clinical exp) to serve back in my home country maybe for a couple years through Doctor's Without Borders; after jumping through all the hoops, that is. I am fully aware that it has a stigma when it comes to "medical tourism" in the eyes of the AdCom spouting it as life-changing. I did put it as one of my AMCAS activities but I never put it as most meaningful cause I have other, longitudinal experiences that were life-changing, gave me a broader perspective and fueled my passion for medicine way before my alternative spring break. I was hoping that I could use this as a selling point for interviews with schools that have a "global" requirement in their curriculum. But what do you adcoms think about it?

 

[Vans42]

I would recommend volunteering meaningfully about something you are passionate about in the states and then go backpacking abroad if you want to go. That's what I did, and you don't have to spend a bunch of money to go either - the most expensive thing was getting plane tickets.

 

[blueharbor]

Build an internal drive to make change?!

The countries that these medical mission trips are targeting will be less likely to change themselves, internally, because medical missions have the dangerous potential to build a "foreign-dependent" attitude. LizzyM posted a really insightful thesis about the criticisms of medical brigades in Honduras in that thread that Planes2Doc linked. You should read it: http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/8620/1/Bradke.pdf

By "internal drive" I'm pretty sure they were referring to the student's internal drive, ie a new desire/drive to serve others globally. I personally agree. If you think you may want to work in global health, the only way to find out is to try it, and many people (including myself) have seriously adjusted their priorities and goals after experiences like these.

The issues brought up in this thread related to international volunteering are all valid, however. I suggest doing an MPH during med school if anyone wants to know how to make a truly effective difference in global health.

 

[capnncrunch]

I guess my international work isn't clinically related so it's different for me? My work was productive and provided a resource to a community that would otherwise have not existed. Without going into specifics for anonymity, the trip was religious and productive. My PS kinda hit on the medical aspects in all environments (locally, regionally, nationally, internationally) that I pulled from my experience. It saddens me that ADCOMs thinks that people with these experiences are bogus. Even if I wanted to create a global health organization, I wouldn't have the time or resources to make that happen; joining the peace corps isn't really possible as a traditional pre-med student. I think people forget to realize that a medical degree is required before significant action can be taken, which is impossible as a pre-med student. All I know is that my trip, though non-clinical, changed my heart; if explaining that it was influential in "why medicine?" isn't okay for an ADCOM, then I don't want to matriculate at that school.