Having a moderate nervous breakdown here...

[OncDoc19]

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Ok so I feel like the application process is crashing down around me right now. As many of you know, I don't yet have any acceptances and am applying for a non-trad PhD area. I was so excited when I won the Gates scholarship last week but now I feel like it is going to end up working against me. I figured my schools would be thrilled about this but sadly this is not the case. On top of that I have been rejected from the PhD side of things at two places in two days. So, I'm down to five schools were I am still being considered for MD/PhD. Let's call them schools 1-5.

School 1: Has said there is no problem with a defferal in the past, one of my top two choices

School 2: Has expressed some hesitance about deferal, the other of my top two choices

School 3: Not sure where they stand on this issue

School 4: Adcom meeting tomorrow, told me I may be able to get a one year deferal but probably not 2 years, also said I should reconsider even taking the scholarship if I want to get into MD/PhD. I have a contact at the school who could potentially help me out but only if I'm sure the school is my top choice. It's a great school but I don't think I can say that at the moment.

School 5: Not sure where they stand on the issue

So, how do I approach this issue tactfully with my other schools? Basically at this point, I would be happy at any of these 5 schools so part of which place is my top choice depends on which school will let me go to Cambridge. I'm not giving up this scholarship but I also REALLY don't want to reapply. I feel like I am down to dangerously few places at this point.

 

[meowkat444]

You're asking about schools 3 and 5, right?

When do you have to commit to the Gates, or did you already do it? You're 100% sure you want to do the Gates?

Is it possible to wait until they give you a decision to talk to them about deferral? I know it feels dishonest, but you'll be in a better bargaining position. Telling them about it will either a) not effect their decision at all or b) effect their decision negatively. If they have a stated no-deferral policy, though, there's probably not much you can do...

You're in a difficult position, but you're such an amazing applicant! It will work out!

By the way, do you have a sense of your chances at any of these schools? For example, if you feel confident about school #1 then you're probably going to be OK 🙂

 

[OncDoc19]

You're asking about schools 3 and 5, right?

When do you have to commit to the Gates, or did you already do it? You're 100% sure you want to do the Gates?

Is it possible to wait until they give you a decision to talk to them about deferral? I know it feels dishonest, but you'll be in a better bargaining position. Telling them about it will either a) not effect their decision at all or b) effect their decision negatively. If they have a stated no-deferral policy, though, there's probably not much you can do...

You're in a difficult position, but you're such an amazing applicant! It will work out!

By the way, do you have a sense of your chances at any of these schools? For example, if you feel confident about school #1 then you're probably going to be OK 🙂

Well I guess I'm asking about how to proceed from here. Unfortunately I have already sent letters letting everywhere know that I won the scholarship. I had no idea I would get this kind of response to it. I am 100% committed to going. I'd have to be crazy to turn down a full ride to Cambridge. If I have to reapply I will, but I REALLY don't want to. I thought that these places would be happy for me and would want someone who had won a scholarship of this caliber. I'm really in shock. None of the places has a no deferral policy but several seem hesitant about it. Part of that is wrapped up in the PhD department.

I do feel confident about my chances at school #1, but at this point I feel like I need to write a letter of intent to show how serious I am about this. The problem is, I don't feel ready to write such a letter. I would also like to tactfully figure out whether schools 1-3 and 5 are willing to defer if I am admitted so I can figure out how dire my situation is. #1 has said yes in the past but now that its an actuality I am worried that the answer may be different.

 

[seraph524]

I think if your top two schools have either no problem or some problem with deferrals, then I think you are fine. A letter of intent/interest to those schools may be a way to calm your nervous breakdown 🙂

 

[QofQuimica]

You have an incredible opportunity to go to Cambridge. Medical school won't be going anywhere in the next two years; take your scholarship and run. If you have to reapply for med school, then you will--you're a highly qualified applicant, and it's worth the hassle of reapplying if it comes to that. Oh, but next time, my advice is that you not decline any interviews before you get an acceptance.

 

[Inuranic]

I'd like to also echo Q and say that medical school isn't going anywhere, and the Cambridge scholarship is one truly amazing opportunity.

If it comes to it, reapplying will not be the worst thing you'd have to do. And your primary application would then contain "Recipient of Gates Cambridge Scholarship". That's a fine AMCAS activity...

 

[MedRower]

Hey, be sure to ask about about this business of USMLE Step 1 (and 2?) changing... I'm not quite clear on it, but apparently it may affect those who enter in 2009 and beyond.

 

[meowkat444]

it doesn't seem like there is anything to do but wait, then, and maybe send a few letters of interest (not intent). I know that is hard, but even if you end up reapplying you are headed wonderful places 🙂 congrats again!

 

[OncDoc19]

Oh, but next time, my advice is that you not decline any interviews before you get an acceptance.

I understand that it was very risky to turn down interviews. Honestly, I just couldn't fit them all in along with school and scholarship interviews. The places I withdrew from were because my research interests couldn't really be well supported at those schools.

 

[OncDoc19]

I'd like to also echo Q and say that medical school isn't going anywhere, and the Cambridge scholarship is one truly amazing opportunity.

If it comes to it, reapplying will not be the worst thing you'd have to do. And your primary application would then contain "Recipient of Gates Cambridge Scholarship". That's a fine AMCAS activity...

My concern about reapplying is that I really don't want to have to fly from the UK to do interviews. First, if I did that I couldn't afford to apply to >5 schools because of the costs of flights and second, I hate the idea of having to spend time interviewing when I am supposed to be enjoying life in Cambridge (yes, I know that's a selfish reason).

Mainly I am completely mystified as to why winning a prestigious scholarship means a school doesn't want to take me. This seems like a good thing for everyone. What am I missing here?

 

[Ariodant]

It depends on the school. Due to funding, filling the class, other concerns, or just pure habit, some schools don't like deferral. Other schools will be happy to have a competitive candidate under their belly, even if he matriculates one year late. From what I can remember, UCSF is a good example of the former, while Upenn an example of the latter.

Don't start to worry yourself to death before anything is certain. Maybe your top schools will accept you as a deferral and all problems will be solved.

 

[LunderKind]

First, I want to say congrats on your accomplishments! The Gates!!! Amazing! 👍

My concern about reapplying is that I really don't want to have to fly from the UK to do interviews. First, if I did that I couldn't afford to apply to >5 schools because of the costs of flights and second, I hate the idea of having to spend time interviewing when I am supposed to be enjoying life in Cambridge (yes, I know that's a selfish reason).

All I know is from others I've met in this process, but I did meet a few people that were on scholarships in the UK and applying/interviewing for MD/PhD programs. Basically, the schools scheduled special interview dates for them so that they could get all of their interviews done back-to-back, preventing them from having to fly back and forth from the UK. Despite this, I can still understand why you would not want to reapply!

Mainly I am completely mystified as to why winning a prestigious scholarship means a school doesn't want to take me. This seems like a good thing for everyone. What am I missing here?

It does seem strange and backwards, but I'd imagine that a school might have concerns about you changing your mind on what you want to do within those two years...it may not be fair to you, but is probably a legitimate concern on the school's part.

Five schools is a lot to still be in consideration for, and I think you should not get too worried about it at this point. You are a great applicant, and I bet things will work out!! Good luck!

 

[sirrileydog]

Not sure I understand here...you were invited for and completed 5 MD PhD interviews and you won the Gates Scholarship...and now you're having a breakdown over how to proceed?

It sounds to me like you're well on your way to a career as a medical scientist. Is the concern that you could lose everything if you make the wrong decision?

You sound so obsessed by the status of these programs that you're missing the big picture. I have a buddy at a top 5 school who was holding multiple MD PhD acceptances. He could not negotiate with school to get a 2 year delay. He sent a number of high profile letters supporting his deferral but to no use. He did the MD PhD.

The schools tend to believe that acceptance to a MD PhD program is a significant award that is on par with scholarship. Also, 2 years is a lot of time--maybe you'll decide to pursue a different path (ie only research).

In short, there is no bad choice. In fact, I don't see what choices you even have right now. Look on the bright side--maybe you won't have as many choices as you think?

 

[Dodo23]

Poor Oncdoc; what an agonizing situation to be in. I don't know what advice to give you, but I hope everything works out for you. At least the worst case scenario is that you'll be having the experience of a lifetime in Cambridge, with possibly having to reapply, although I hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Kraazy]

Dear OncDoc,

First, congrats on the Gates! It's a great honor and opportunity. I probably would have waited to tell the schools about it (I too am thinking of deferring, though for much less laudable reasons that the Gates, and my strategy is get in first, discuss deferral once I have bargaining chips). But since what is done is done, I think that you should do some strategic communication here. To the schools where your chances look good, send a word to the director of the program expressing your strong interest. Not necessarily intent to matriculate, but basically as close as you can get to that. To the schools who seem to have gotten cold feet after hearing about the Gates, get in touch with them to confirm your commitment to the MD/PhD path despite your desire to frolic in Cambridge for a bit before you matriculate. It may not sway them, but it certainly won't hurt either. Try to see if you can get in touch with the dean/administrator who usually deals with deferrals (both on med and PhD side) and discuss your concerns with them.

Now most importantly, do not despair. You are clearly a stellar applicant (as demonstrated by the Gates) and on your way to being a physician-investigator no matter what. Even if you had to choose between MD/PhD and Gates, either option would be well-suited for your career path. Some may even argue that the Gates path would be better. Chris Murray, living god of global health, got his DPhil through the Rhodes before med school and has done quite well for himself...

I understand that you're panicking at this point seeing the roll of acceptances in the SDN forum and not having one to your name yet, with narrowing options, but I think that you will definitely get an acceptance, if not more, at the end of the game. Remember, there are people holding multiple acceptances (or who will come March 15), and if you don't get an acceptance by then, there's a good chance that one will roll your way from the waitlist. You are still very much in the game.

Also, if it comes down to it, you would be an incredibly strong re-applicant, what with a Gates fellowship under your belt!

Hope this helps, and keep your chin up!

 

[OncDoc19]

Not sure I understand here...you were invited for and completed 5 MD PhD interviews and you won the Gates Scholarship...and now you're having a breakdown over how to proceed?

It sounds to me like you're well on your way to a career as a medical scientist. Is the concern that you could lose everything if you make the wrong decision?

No, the concern is that I have gotten a rather negative response about winning the Gates scholarship, in regards to a deferral. I'm not worried about making the wrong decision, I am worried that I won't get into am MD/PhD program. I absolutely refuse to turn down the Gates.

You sound so obsessed by the status of these programs that you're missing the big picture. I have a buddy at a top 5 school who was holding multiple MD PhD acceptances. He could not negotiate with school to get a 2 year delay. He sent a number of high profile letters supporting his deferral but to no use. He did the MD PhD.

The schools tend to believe that acceptance to a MD PhD program is a significant award that is on par with scholarship. Also, 2 years is a lot of time--maybe you'll decide to pursue a different path (ie only research).

In short, there is no bad choice. In fact, I don't see what choices you even have right now. Look on the bright side--maybe you won't have as many choices as you think?

I'm really not sure what you mean here by status. I also didn't understand your example. I also don't see how the bright side is that I don't have many choices. That seems to be the dark side. I agree that MD/PhD is a great award but I just don't think I should be forced to choose. These aren't conflicting programs and going to Cambridge won't negate my desire to get an MD/PhD or replace those degrees.

 

[OncDoc19]

well things just got worse...Michigan rejection

 

[Neuronix]

Upenn an example of the latter.

At Penn the deferral deadline is very close to the date when they notify you about acceptance or waitlist. This essentially means that you can only defer if you're accepted in the first batch.

 

[EpiGirl]

Just wanted to drop in some words of encouragement. Remember, OncDoc, that you're not the only one out there waiting to hear. A lot of the folks who post on the message board are an unusually successful bunch even among MD-PhD applicants, so don't look over your shoulder too much. I was in a similar boat to you numbers-wise, having been offered only four interviews and being interested in a non-traditional PhD--although not quite as non-traditional as yours. From what I can see, your CV could tear my CV to shreds, swallow it whole and belch. Well, I just got my first acceptance yesterday. So don't beat yourself up; just send those letters of interest so when you look back on this time you can tell yourself you left it all out on the field. The rest of it is out of your hands. Don't let this process make you lose your perspective on your amazing accomplishments. You're going to have a stellar career no matter what.

 

[linuxizer]

OncDoc,
Your application is incredible and you've just won a Gates. The only thing that could possibly make you anything but a shoo-in would be if you didn't interview well, and, having met you (you were kind enough to invite me along to the lunch at H) I doubt that is the case.
When you updated schools, did you tell them you were planning on deferring, or merely that you had won it? If the latter and they accept you but don't want to let you defer, I can't imagine you'll have a problem convincing them. The graduate group is already going to have to wait 2-3 years to get you as a student anyway, so what's one more? Moreover, your passage through the program will be quicker, since you'll already have a Master's, and therefore the school can spend more of its funding recruiting more MudPhuds (particularly since non-trad MudPhuds receive no NIH funding). You'll also likely have the advantage of having multiple schools vying for you, and therefore will have some pull.
If you have made it clear that you plan on deferring, I still can't imagine their not accepting you, for similar reasons as above. Turning down a Gates scholar *because* she's a Gates scholar would be beyond short-sighted.
In short, I know it's stressful in this last month or so (flipping out a bit myself...), but you're going to wind up somewhere fantastic.

Best wishes,
Ari

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Put this behind you. Do the Gates, see the UK (and a bit of Europe), establish some connections with people at Cambridge, and reapply. It's better to be free of the "noose" of Gates/deferral which may be limiting your options, than to go to a less-than-desirable (for you) program just because they'll grudgingly let you defer for the Gates.

 

[Brunette1981]

I agree with above, just reapply. You will already have the MCAT, filled out application (may want to update, etc), LOR from undergrad (may want to get one at Cambridge) so mostly the only inconvenience of reapplying is re-interviewing.

Most interviews occur in the Nov-Jan block (with few in late Dec) and some have mid-weeks or could make special arrangements to interview you separately (UMich did this for me because I was a local - went in on a random day between classes). So you could take off 1-2 weeks in Nov and 1-2 more weeks in Jan and pretty much interview at as many places as you want. Potentially only 2 roundtrip flights to pay for then.

And, much as you want to enjoy Cambridge, isn't it better to miss out on 2-4 weeks out of 104 weeks (in non-holiday wintertime no less) in order to get into the MD/PhD program of your choice?

I guess I'm not sure why this is a dilemma - withdraw your app, buff it up for next round, and apply again with no worries. Flights from the UK aren't THAT expensive (about the same as a business route within the US - I paid $700 to fly from Detroit to Philly for my Upenn interview back in the day...)