Having doubts about medicine as a career...

[WVmed]

Now that I've been accepted, and the shimmer of the word Doctor has faded away, I'm just not sure about this career. I already have a degree in a relatively well-paying field (chemical engineering) however I hate every minute that I have to deal with fellow engineers. I hate exams, I hate type A people (like most med students), and I definately hate the thought of 8 more years until pay dirt. My family is telling me to stay with engineering, but they don't realize how miserable I am working as an engineer. Medicine won't necessarily be any better, but hey it's worth a shot. Is this mentality going to hold up in med school? Also, to any type A people who have always had a dream of becoming a doctor that I may have offended, please spare me your arrogant "if it's not your dream" talk. It's a career, folks. wake up

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[hidingOUT]

Are EVERYWHERE (especially if you have to compete to get there)........however, you can simply avoid socializing with them and skip as much class as possible. Then choose a field like family or PM& R. Avoid surgery, etc...It can be done. Don't let the type A's stop you. As a matter of fact, some of the best of the "type A's"- the ones who don't take it all out on others, just know they are OCD & try and deal with it maturely- can be found in medicine. 🙂

Now that I've been accepted, and the shimmer of the word Doctor has faded away, I'm just not sure about this career. I already have a degree in a relatively well-paying field (chemical engineering) however I hate every minute that I have to deal with fellow engineers. I hate exams, I hate type A people (like most med students), and I definately hate the thought of 8 more years until pay dirt. My family is telling me to stay with engineering, but they don't realize how miserable I am working as an engineer. Medicine won't necessarily be any better, but hey it's worth a shot. Is this mentality going to hold up in med school? Also, to any type A people who have always had a dream of becoming a doctor that I may have offended, please spare me your arrogant "if it's not your dream" talk. It's a career, folks. wake up

 

[dmitrinyr]

Now that I've been accepted, and the shimmer of the word Doctor has faded away, I'm just not sure about this career. I already have a degree in a relatively well-paying field (chemical engineering) however I hate every minute that I have to deal with fellow engineers. I hate exams, I hate type A people (like most med students), and I definately hate the thought of 8 more years until pay dirt. My family is telling me to stay with engineering, but they don't realize how miserable I am working as an engineer. Medicine won't necessarily be any better, but hey it's worth a shot. Is this mentality going to hold up in med school? Also, to any type A people who have always had a dream of becoming a doctor that I may have offended, please spare me your arrogant "if it's not your dream" talk. It's a career, folks. wake up

I think the main thing for you is to find out for yourself what will make you happy, whether it is medicine, engineering or something else. Because, it doesn't matter how well paying the proffesion or how prestigious, you will not be happy doing it if you hate every minute of it and hate the people you work with. Doesn't matter what job, for you to actually get out of bed each morning and go to work, you have to like something about the job whether it's the job itself, the people, the environment. Something has to keep you coming in. Personally, I can thing of nothing else that I would rather be doing for a living than a doctor. But even with that, we all have days when we hate every bit of it and don't want to do it anymore. On those days, something has to keep you going. Of course, it's your decision and your life, but if I was you, I'd try medical school to see if you will be happy there. You got this far(i.e. accepted to med school), why not go in and see if it's for you. It's definitely not for everyone but if you didn't like what you did before, it can't hurt to try something new.

Good luck

dmitri

 

[thackl]

Then don't come to medicine. My expirience so far in being around meds and premeds is significantly more type A and more attitude (entitlement, whining, etc).

 

[Elysium]

Almost everyday I think about quitting school, which apparently isn't that uncommon during MS I. I have to say, it's a nightmare sometimes. I know that everyone has totally different experiences in school, but for me it has been incredibly tough. All the information is totally new (not having a science background) and mostly completely boring. Maybe you'll totally get a kick out of anatomy and biochem and histo and embryo and neuro - but I certainly don't. At least at our school, nothing is really clinically relevant at all and so just seems like a huge waste of time to memorize. I'm not overly excited about the fact that being done is 7 years away and that I'll be close to 40 when I'm done. You're still jumping through hoops, and will continue to do so for your entire career (board exams, certification exams, managed care, etc.). There are probably other things I could be doing and that fact drives me crazy sometimes. I'm not one of those "I would rather die than not be a doctor" people. I don't think anything is that important. I'm just already too far in debt ($50G for this year alone) to quit and have no way to pay back the loans I have already. So, I'm just going to try and make the best of it and hope it gets better.

I dunno if this will help or not. Good Luck either way.

 

[Ross434]

Then don't come to medicine. My expirience so far in being around meds and premeds is significantly more type A and more attitude (entitlement, whining, etc).

Really? most engineers i know are far less, shall we say, well-adjusted, and much more anti-social than premeds.

 

[WVmed]

Almost everyday I think about quitting school, which apparently isn't that uncommon during MS I. I have to say, it's a nightmare sometimes. [...] There are probably other things I could be doing and that fact drives me crazy sometimes.

Coming from engineering I definately have other options, something a significant group of pre-meds dont have (unless you consider being a biology lab T.A. an option). Therefore the thought of 8 years is so mind-numbing it almost makes me quit before I've even started. That's not to mention the nightmare of managed care and HMO contracts that await and basically sign your life away to some rich CEO who decides when and where you will practice.

I am not one of those dillusional people who thinks medicine is some transcendental dream-like state where professional "bliss" and monetary reward coexist in harmonious equilibrium. medicine will involve years of checking IV bags and getting caughed on and having bad attitudes around me all the time (not only from sick patients but from those ridiculous over zealous type A MD's). Also, signing my name John Doe, M.D. won't fill me with any excitement, or sense of satisfaction. My personal and spiritual life, although ethereal, are far more meaningful to me than going to bed thinking "I'm in the top 2% of the income bracket.. Ahh, I love myself"
In fact I could care less. I will consider your advice thoroughly.

 

[jpro]

Before you got into medical school, what did you tell people when they asked why you want to be a doctor. Maybe you need to get out and do some volunteering or get in the hospital and shadow a doctor that is in a field you are interested in. Med school isn't forever, and it will fly by. I know this year has flown by. Everything will change again come third year, then again during internship, and residency. Eventually you will move up. Rarely do I meet a doctor that honestly wishes they were doing something else, and these same people had their doubts during med school too.

 

[Pinesinger]

Coming from engineering I definately have other options, something a significant group of pre-meds dont have (unless you consider being a biology lab T.A. an option). Therefore the thought of 8 years is so mind-numbing it almost makes me quit before I've even started. That's not to mention the nightmare of managed care and HMO contracts that await and basically sign your life away to some rich CEO who decides when and where you will practice.

I am not one of those dillusional people who thinks medicine is some transcendental dream-like state where professional "bliss" and monetary reward coexist in harmonious equilibrium. medicine will involve years of checking IV bags and getting caughed on and having bad attitudes around me all the time (not only from sick patients but from those ridiculous over zealous type A MD's). Also, signing my name John Doe, M.D. won't fill me with any excitement, or sense of satisfaction. My personal and spiritual life, although ethereal, are far more meaningful to me than going to bed thinking "I'm in the top 2% of the income bracket.. Ahh, I love myself"
In fact I could care less. I will consider your advice thoroughly.

Hi WVMed,

I went through a similar thought process before I came to school, and ultimately what I did is made a list of why I wanted to be a doctor. Do you have a clear idea of why you want to be a doctor? Going into medicine just to do something different might not be the best reason to commit yourself to a major undertaking. So I would make a list, post it here if you want, of the reasons you want to be a doctor. If you can't think of a reason besides "it's not engineering", you probably have your answer!

 

[2tall]

It's a career, folks. wake up

Couldn't you have said the same thing to yourself (about ChemE)?

Aren't there other career opportunities in the same field? Consulting, etc.

But hey...perhaps medicine is where you're meant to be.

 

[2tall]

the shimmer of the word Doctor has faded away

The Shimmer Factor. LOL.

All that shimmers...isn't gold.

 

[Dupree]

Ehhh...it eventually becomes a job that you have to go to everyday just like any other job that pays the bills and keeps you and the family fed.

And you'll never really know if it's right for you until you actually do it yourself. No amount of advice or lame volunteering will do it, you have to actually get right into it to find out. That means going to med school and continuing on into residency and beyond if you feel like it.

The take home message is that nobody can really advise you if it's right for you or even if you'll enjoy it enough to keep on doing it. Don't fall for the illusion that all doctors keep practicing medicine because they like it, a lot do it because it is the only way to pay back the massive debt they've accumulated or because they just can't turn their back on something they've trained so long to become (even if they hate every minute of it), or some combination of both. The catch is that most of us have to accumulate that massive debt to find out if it is right for us, and by the time we do, many find themselves "trapped" in the profession. Enter at your own risk I guess.

 

[thackl]

Really? most engineers i know are far less, shall we say, well-adjusted, and much more anti-social than premeds.

Yep, I saw my share on pocket protector-wearing geeks, but they were generally very nice and easy to get along with. Many of them were intelligent to the point were they had difficulty socializing with "normal" people. I find meds and ESPECIALLY premeds to, on average, be much more obnixous. Maybe it's just me, but with the # of "I hate my classmates" threads on this forum and in pre-allo, I don't think it is.

 

[Giving My .02]

Yep, I saw my share on pocket protector-wearing geeks, but they were generally very nice and easy to get along with. Many of them were intelligent to the point were they had difficulty socializing with "normal" people. I find meds and ESPECIALLY premeds to, on average, be much more obnixous. Maybe it's just me, but with the # of "I hate my classmates" threads on this forum and in pre-allo, I don't think it is.

I think you are head on thackl. I think pre-meds are WAY worse than medical students though. You see all the posts on here concerning complaining about everything from hating classmates to diversity. I think medical students don't have enough energy to be like they were as a pre-med.

 

[thackl]

I think you are head on thackl. I think pre-meds are WAY worse than medical students though. You see all the posts on here concerning complaining about everything from hating classmates to diversity. I think medical students don't have enough energy to be like they were as a pre-med.

Premeds were MUCH worse. I like my class.... even more this semester, now that everyone has settled down.

 

[Mike59]

\ My family is telling me to stay with engineering, but they don't realize how miserable I am working as an engineer. Medicine won't necessarily be any better, but hey it's worth a shot. Is this mentality going to hold up in med school?

It's a tough call. I think engineering is not for you based on your comments, so rightly, another career path should be on the agenda. But the fact that you are not enthusiastic about medicine from the get-go makes me wonder how long you'll stick through the tough times. Being smack in the middle of clinical rotations right now, I can tell you that I've had several experiences that made me question why I'm here, and made me feel like I wanted to quit. But the tidbits of idealism and reasons for pursuing medicine in the first place have allowed me to stick with it and find at least some pleasure in what I'm doing, no matter how bad things can get.

Unless you can find some genuine reasons to be here, it may not be worth the debt cause once you're in, your stuck financially. And I disagree, with your quote "it's just a career"..It is a career but the time commitment involved in our training and job (in 90% of all fields of medicine) is much more than any other career. When you're on call for your group 1 in 5 trying to pay back loans, you had better want to be here or it's going to miserable- the responsibilities of a medical practice cannot be checked at the door at 5pm like a dentist/optometrist etc.

Just my $.02

 

[Peterock]

I think you are head on thackl. I think pre-meds are WAY worse than medical students though. You see all the posts on here concerning complaining about everything from hating classmates to diversity. I think medical students don't have enough energy to be like they were as a pre-med.

But that doesn't mean they are any different. I've heard some really nasty comments uttered by surgeons, med students etc. Flat out calling their patients "dirty f@gg*ts" or even their classmates "undeserving n*g*ers". I think people are more aware that their actions could have consequences on their career so they curb their public ******ation, but that doesn't mean they've changed. And of course you're right about med students not having enough time to be assholish.

The other thing is that the premed-> med jump is highly competitive. And that environment, or perceived environment brings out people's worst sides. I think pre-allo shows a lot of what people think/feel when there is a kill or be killed perception (due to admissions competition). If roughly 25% of your medical school class got the chance to prctice medicine, you'd better believe there'd be blood spilled.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

But that doesn't mean they are any different. I've heard some really nasty comments uttered by surgeons, med students etc. Flat out calling their patients "dirty f@gg*ts" or even their classmates "undeserving n*g*ers". I think people are more aware that their actions could have consequences on their career so they curb their public ******ation, but that doesn't mean they've changed. And of course you're right about med students not having enough time to be assholish.

The other thing is that the premed-> med jump is highly competitive. And that environment, or perceived environment brings out people's worst sides. I think pre-allo shows a lot of what people think/feel when there is a kill or be killed perception (due to admissions competition). If roughly 25% of your medical school class got the chance to prctice medicine, you'd better believe there'd be blood spilled.

Thats true.. I have heard comments such as "I hate fat people" or "that black girl is here because she needs attention" etc....from surgeons and PCPs

I agree with the competition being more at pre-med stage....but there still is competition for those orth, optho, derm etc internships....I am not that kind of person naturewise....I believe in working and learning as a team ...so lets see what the medical school holds 🙂

 

[WVmed]

It's a tough call. [...]

Unless you can find some genuine reasons to be here, it may not be worth the debt cause once you're in, your stuck financially.

Just my $.02

Thanks Mike59. You have several good points. I will list my 4 original reasons for moving from engineering to medicine, as requested by a previous poster with a handful of very good points as well:

1) The satisfaction you get when something great has been achieved (most of us remember our first A on a college exam), whether it is completing the MD degree, or correctly diagnosing a hepatitis patient and catching it early enough to treat. As a volunteer I had a couple experiences where I made a patient smile and that was absolutely eye-opening. So I am aware that there are many emotional positives that come with being a fundamentally sound physician. (likewise I made several patients grumpy and the inverse is true!)

2) Freedom to practice anywhere in the United States. Whether that's Nebraska or Wyoming or NYC, this one is self explanatory.

3) The Money Significant upgrade from an entry-level engineering salary, however the residency will be equivalent to a bad engineering job. Also, after 10 years in the engineering profession, most companies have the pay scale in 6 figures.

4) Job Security There aren't too many doctors looking for jobs, however there are some who have been put out of business by crazy malpractice claims, and that is a real shame. In engineering however outsourcing is a big time problem in the United States today.

Anyway, these were my first 4 original reasons for making the switch. I think they are realistic and solid reasons. We all know my doubts, because I listed them in a previous post. I will need to think some more about which is worth more.

 

[Nutboy]

I was in your shoes this time in 2003. I was accepted at only one out-of-state med school because all the other ones felt I wasn't totally committed. The others noticed that I had very little exposure to the field. Why was that the case? Because I did not want to give up my $75k per year job in order to be an EMT in order to figure out if I liked health care. Not sure if I wanted to enroll, I went ahead and did took the plunge, hoping the med school curriculum would convince me either way.

Turned out this way: MS 1 was drudgery, and MS 2 seemed like information overload. Nothing was what I'd hoped: the "patients" in the interviewing class to me where simply actors; anatomy lab was not an honor but instead a test of my memorization skills; PBL was lower yield than self-study; and shadowing a general pediatrician showed me how much repetition there can be. Most of all, I missed using my ability to think and reason and not just be a subject matter expert.

Enrolling was probably a mistake, because I quit after one year. Now I am out the $34,000 tuition and have to go back to my previous career, whereas I would probably have earned an M.S. in the time it took to do this medical thing.

A handful of classmates have mentioned to me that they feel "trapped" by the debt, and unfortunately, a year or two of med school is not marketable. Hell, many Ph.D. programs allow you to earn a terminal masters in two years--not so in med school. What keeps people from leaving? Debt? Hope? Higher income? Pride?

I'm not going to give any advice, becuase this was simply my experience. Yours will most definitely be better, thanks to many factors such as your younger age, better socialization skills, a stronger support network, etc. I would say one thing: don't rush this.

I realize I could get massively flamed. Many will call me a quitter -- which I never was before med school. Many will say to just stop being a wuss and go for it, b/c the salaries are worth it. These guys are, of course, dinguses who lack compassion and are only here for the money. Ignore them. To them, I have only one retort: Don't waste your energies, b/c I'm not going to check this thread again.

 

[hidingOUT]

I still say give it a shot. If you are miserable as an engineer, you will find that medicine has a lot of options. Yes the exams really suck. Yes it is memorization overload at times. That said, I think the first 2 years are better by far than being in "the real world". Why? I don't go to 95% of my lectures. I sleep 7-10 hrs every night. I get up and study the material and make my own notes, and I even find the material- gasp!- interesting (not ALL of it- but I do find Path, micro, neuro disorders, histo and anatomy awfully interesting). The part that makes it a "job"- taking exams, memorizing crap you know won't have "real life" clinical application, and putting up with type A gunners. My dad is an engineer. I have watched him put up with all sorts of garbage for 35 years and he is still, at age 60, working 80 hour weeks. He is now at the "top" of his salary ceiling (and management level for that matter), and he makes 80K. He would tell you in a heartbeat to change fields.

Further, if nutboy is so happy with his decision to get out- whaz he doin' in this forum?

 

[jonathani1]

Thank you for your comments on your med school experience. I am thinking of giving up a software engineering job to hed into the med school arena. We need honesty and experience like yours on the forum.

Jon

 

[typeB-md]

bottom line is, doctors have the option of not having to answer to anyone.

engineers are a dime a dozen and almost always, there's some young, out-of-college kid willing to do your job for $25K less.

but with that said, you should be somewhat interested in health sciences (they are much less logical than engineering).

 

[Goose...Fraba]

my thoughts,

dont do it. med school and residency will make you crazy. I am doing a rotation in psyh right now, and I can tell you many people that end up there are normal folks like me in you, highly educated, but because of the stress of there jobs, and unhappiness, it drives them crazy.

from your post its clear that c engineering is not for you. you hate working with type A a$$holes right? Well no offense to anyone who's reading this but medicine is full of a$$holes! esp. Surgeons! holy moley 3rd year med school during your first surgery rotation, you might end up fighting back thoughts of pulling out the damn endoscope, and shoving it down the next freakin surgeons throat because he keeps yelling, CENTER THE SCREEN DOCTOR, WHAT FREAKIN MED SCHOOL DID YOU COME FROM!! dude- even the OR techs treat you like a freakin *****.

Im telling you medicine is gotta be the worst when it comes to disfunctional personalities.

so you definately need a career change, thats a given. how about maybe something like biomechanical engineering, its kind of a blend between medicine and engineering? pay is great, mostly its doing research and stuff. anyways think about your options. but all in all, its all up to you

 

[durak]

i don't argue the fact that medicine is full of a$$holes, but aren't there a$$holes everywhere? my first job was construction, and there were a$$holes. then i worked fast food, and there were a$$holes. right now i work in IT, and guess what - yep, there are plenty of a$$holes. a$$holes everywhere! holy crap the world sucks!

the grass is always greener, especially when it comes to careers!

 

[WVmed]

my thoughts,

dont do it.

Thanks, Goose. I appreciate your perspective, but like the next poster said, a$$holes are everywhere. There are pricks in every line of work, even fast food (where someone in the back is so proud of his ability to get the fries into the oil bath in exactly 7.5 seconds and you should be able to do that too, why can't you fill the fry basket as fast as me? Ah you're not as good as me! That must be it) ... everywhere you go there is some person whose perspective is from one angle: "How good am I compared to all these other people?" Surgeon's are mostly the kids who didn't get picked at softball in third grade, and now they can look back on that and laugh (for the wrong reason, in a vindictive way). Whereas normal, friendly people like myself didn't get picked at softball and I look back and realize "I suck at softball." and realize "who gives a sh**" ... anyway, this is all just to say I refuse to let type A people mold my decision about future careers. We have to deal with these types in any field.

 

[WVmed]

Thank you for your comments on your med school experience. I am thinking of giving up a software engineering job to hed into the med school arena. We need honesty and experience like yours on the forum.

Jon

Good luck to you jonathani1; I have just recently left the engineering field as well to start MS1 next fall. II have been having serious doubts for a number of reasons, Im sure you read all those already. Keep checking this thread because I have been trying to stay friendly with sharing of ideas. Some of these threads are just too abbrasive for my taste so I like to keep it level-headed and honest. That is not a way of "sugar-coating" anything, it's just being understanding and not jumping to any rude conclusions about a persons own doubts or plans. Take care,

 

[banner]

WVmed,

You should not go into medicine.

Too be blunt,your reasons for choosing medicine are not well thought out. Financially, medicine is a poor decision given the debt and the amount of time you'll be earing zero or next to nothing at a time in your life when you should be investing.

Reading your posts, I am not convinced that you'll be happy in medicine at all.

Seriously, consider a nice government job.

 

[Saved Satan]

Thanks Mike59. You have several good points. I will list my 4 original reasons for moving from engineering to medicine, as requested by a previous poster with a handful of very good points as well:

1) The satisfaction you get when something great has been achieved (most of us remember our first A on a college exam), whether it is completing the MD degree, or correctly diagnosing a hepatitis patient and catching it early enough to treat. As a volunteer I had a couple experiences where I made a patient smile and that was absolutely eye-opening. So I am aware that there are many emotional positives that come with being a fundamentally sound physician. (likewise I made several patients grumpy and the inverse is true!)

2) Freedom to practice anywhere in the United States. Whether that's Nebraska or Wyoming or NYC, this one is self explanatory.

3) The Money Significant upgrade from an entry-level engineering salary, however the residency will be equivalent to a bad engineering job. Also, after 10 years in the engineering profession, most companies have the pay scale in 6 figures.

4) Job Security There aren't too many doctors looking for jobs, however there are some who have been put out of business by crazy malpractice claims, and that is a real shame. In engineering however outsourcing is a big time problem in the United States today.

Anyway, these were my first 4 original reasons for making the switch. I think they are realistic and solid reasons. We all know my doubts, because I listed them in a previous post. I will need to think some more about which is worth more.

Consider Dental. All four reasons of yours will be fully satisfied and more than in medicine. You will additionally have plenty of free time to pursue other interests and hobbies. Dental is much less stressful and much faster.

In general, I wonder why so many are trying to get into medicine when the future of managed care is bound to be worse. Let those who have whatever "noble" reasons become doctors. THey will continue even when they make much less with much worse work-schedule. As to others, I just don't know why they are so excited about medicine. I just don't.

 

[banner]

Goose is right about dysfunctional personalities in medicine. There is something wrong with people who take one of the hardest paths in life for very little relative reward. Engineers kind of also fall into this category as that major is the most demanding in college. You'll find that this phenomenon is amplified in medicine.

In addition, most MDs believe that they have to be suffering in order to be a good MD. So they do stupid things like work 30 hours straight and expect others to do so. Very pathological!!!

Screw engineering and medicine.

Go government, enjoy the benefits, job security and the time you'll have with your family with all the holidays. Become a cop and make over $100,000 a year with the overtime like my friend did. And he only has a high school education!

Good luck!!!

 

[WVmed]

Goose is right about dysfunctional personalities in medicine. There is something wrong with people who take one of the hardest paths in life for very little relative reward. Engineers kind of also fall into this category as that major is the most demanding in college. You'll find that this phenomenon is amplified in medicine.

In addition, most MDs believe that they have to be suffering in order to be a good MD. So they do stupid things like work 30 hours straight and expect others to do so. Very pathological!!!

Screw engineering and medicine.

Go government, enjoy the benefits, job security and the time you'll have with your family with all the holidays. Become a cop and make over $100,000 a year with the overtime like my friend did. And he only has a high school education!

Good luck!!!

Thanks, Banner. I can't become a pig because I could never put someone behind bars for smokin a J. I thought my reasons were pretty realistic. I'm not one of those people that's like "It's my dream" because I've volunteered and worked in the "real world" enough to know people are not in some transcendental dream like state regardless of what they do, be it movie stars or doctors. I think the 4 reasons I listed are far more sound than "I always wanted to be a doctor" or some manipulation of that idealism. Also, out of strict curiosity might I ask what your reasons for medicine are?

 

[Dupree]

bottom line is, doctors have the option of not having to answer to anyone.

Spoken like a true premed.

Say that when your chief resident calls you into the hospital at 3:00 A.M., or say it to your HMO, or to a malpractice lawyer if you ever get sued, or to the medical licensing board, or to one of your patients.

Doctors have to answer to more people than you think, and it's not an "option" as long as you want to keep practicing medicine.

 

[KEC]

Almost everyday I think about quitting school, which apparently isn't that uncommon during MS I. I have to say, it's a nightmare sometimes. I know that everyone has totally different experiences in school, but for me it has been incredibly tough. All the information is totally new (not having a science background) and mostly completely boring. Maybe you'll totally get a kick out of anatomy and biochem and histo and embryo and neuro - but I certainly don't. At least at our school, nothing is really clinically relevant at all and so just seems like a huge waste of time to memorize. I'm not overly excited about the fact that being done is 7 years away and that I'll be close to 40 when I'm done. You're still jumping through hoops, and will continue to do so for your entire career (board exams, certification exams, managed care, etc.). There are probably other things I could be doing and that fact drives me crazy sometimes. I'm not one of those "I would rather die than not be a doctor" people. I don't think anything is that important. I'm just already too far in debt ($50G for this year alone) to quit and have no way to pay back the loans I have already. So, I'm just going to try and make the best of it and hope it gets better.

QUOTE]

WOW!!! This is exactly how I feel. I'd just like to add that most of the people (if you can call them people- none of them really have personalities) in my class drive me crazy!!! they are so intense all the time and can never relax. Can't wait for the summer to get a break from them

 

[john99]

I have been rethinking my career choices as well. 😱
MEDICINE:
I originally started out premed, but then I started to change my mind after working as an EMT, talking with doctors, hearing the horror stories of med school and residency, the debt accumulation, the crazy amount of hours regular practicing Dr.'s put in each week, and the competitiveness to get into Med school and the long list of other sacrifices needed to be made to be a Dr.. What was appealing to me to be a Dr. to begin with? In high school, I became fascinated with learning about the human body and how the right diet, exercise, and drugs could help treat diseases and help save lives. I knew that being a Dr. was a very well respected profession, and I new that Dr.'s made a good amount of money. I was still living with my parents in high school, so I didn't have a real understanding of how much money I needed to make to be happy with life, but growing up in a capitalistic society taught me that money was essential, and the more the better. 😕
PHARMACY:
So, later on I changed my mind about Med school, and I decided on Pharmacy, because I still liked learning about drugs and the human body and I knew that pharmacists could get away with working 40hrs a week, make good money, and have less stress. After working in the pharmacy, in a high volume (understaffed) Out Pt. hospital pharmacy, I have started to change my mind again. Although the hours are set, the stress is still there, not to the extent a lot of Dr.'s face in the ER, but you have to put up with a lot of BS from customers demanding that there medicine should have been ready, or it's a third party insurance problem. When you have a line out the door, and the pt.s are making complaints to the manager, and your constantly getting attitude from pt.s about their meds, it can get really "tough". At the end of the day, I've asked myself, why am I doing this,(I tend to ask myself that a lot ). The other day a customer at work said that her niece became a pharmacist, and she thought that it was a waste because she thought that her niece was much smarter than that, with all of the awards she achieved in undergrad, ( the customer made me mad, that’s all I’m saying)
A lot of the pharmacists I work with say that if they were to start over they would have chosen to go into Medicine, and some say neither, some say Law school. Actually some are lawyers as well as a pharmacist. The way I look at it, all fields of profession are stressful, medicine probably being the most.
PhD:
Well, I looked into getting a PhD, but I'm not sure if it's for me. I would get into drug development (gene therapy), but it sounds almost as tiresome as med school, but without the compensation. I would love to do research that could have some real meaning at curing a disease, and I love reading journal articles, but I'm still worried about the debt, the "no time for outside life", low compensation for eleven years of schooling , not being able to do research on the subject I want, being stuck teaching the majority of the time, not having my experiments go the way I wanted, and having to worry about getting grants and funding. If I went to Med school and got my MD, I could still do the research, which is a positive.
MONEY:
Although I'd be making bank down the line as a Dr., what am I going to do with all that money but raise a bigger family (something I don't have time for), buy a bigger house, buy nicer cars, or sometimes go on vacations 😕 . The avg. American makes around 22,000 a year and they still get by. For me to be happy, I could live in a mobile home and drive a crappy car because possessions mean very little to me 😎 . It’s very hard to make the choice to go to med school knowing that you will be sacrificing some of your younger years.
I'm approaching the cross roads on choosing my future career, and I still don't know. I want to be happy, I want to have good health, and I want stay smart, I want to live comfortably; I want a job I can go to and be happy with. I want free time to enjoy life while I'm still young and healthy. I feel as if my peers and others are pushing me to medical school. Where am I going to be 10 years down the road? What am I going to be doing when I’m 40, 50, 60, 70, or 80 years old?

 

[Ross434]

I would also say, i am having doubts. I agree with the previous poster - medicine is a lot of stress, and doing the same thing day in and day out doesnt seem to really appeal to me that much anymore. I think i might want a more creative and intellectual field. Medicine is so based on procedures (in the generic sense of the word), and following a checklist without much real ingenuity. Plus, it worries me that, to a large extent, the reason physicians make so much money is because of the monopoly power of the medical establishment. This is going to end sooner or later, folks, if costs keep rising. That said, I am leaning now towards engineering, where there are more options and more opportunity for creativity and individual achievement than in medicine.

 

[jawicobike]

WVmed the way I see it only 2 of your 4 reasons for becoming a physician are compelling. Your first reason can be accomplished by anyone. You can be a youth sports coach (for example) and get the same satisfaction you seem to be looking for. I actually know of one physician who spends a lot of his free time coaching a high school cross country team to get that "satisfaction" as you put it.

As far as the money reason; going into debt for med school in the attempt to make tons of money in 10 years makes absolutely no financial sense for someone who can be working his/her way up the financial scale as an engineer for those 10 years, especially if you are a savy investor.

The freedom to practice where you want and the job security are some great reasons, and if I were in your position I would evaluate how important those two things are for me. Freedom to practice wherever I want was actually my number one reason for wanting to become a physician, followed closely by job security. good luck.

 

[WVmed]

WVmed the way I see it only 2 of your 4 reasons for becoming a physician are compelling.

The freedom to practice where you want and the job security are some great reasons, and if I were in your position I would evaluate how important those two things are for me. Freedom to practice wherever I want was actually my number one reason for wanting to become a physician, followed closely by job security. good luck.

jawicobike, some of your response was reasonable. The part about the money is true. Overall I am taking a pay cut by not staying in engineering. Also I truly cannot say that my #1 reason for being in medicine is the satisfaction of helping people...I enjoy sharing ideas with people. My favorite job I ever had was tutoring chemistry to freshman in college. During my UG classes, kids would gather round me while I wrote on the chalk board and we would cram togethor for exams with me as a sort of focal point for the discussion.... I get a lot of satisfaction from making people laugh, so we will see how that manifests in my third and fourth yr....

But as for real medicine, sick people can be really frustrated and so it's hard sometimes to come in and deal with 20 unhappy patients, but I imagine the rewards (curing a few) are quite nice. .. I am very interested in the science of medicine and some of the research that's been going on in the field. This is all just to say that I am not going to med school so I can smile every day about how "I made a little difference" because statistically, I didn't. Regardless of how many people I save, the entire continent of Africa needs treatment for AIDs. No one seems to give a **** about them, I don't see many of these "passionate, driven" doctors applying for 2 years in madagascar (however there are some docs who travel to Africa to help). I feel bad for the poor sick bastards, and I have no idea how horrible AIDs may be... But I am not here to save the world. I am out to make a buck, just like the janitor, and the professor, and the student. If the wind blows me to Africa, I'll try to help anyone within arms reach.

 

[Bfriccia1]

MONEY:
Although I'd be making bank down the line as a Dr., what am I going to do with all that money but raise a bigger family (something I don't have time for), buy a bigger house, buy nicer cars, or sometimes go on vacations 😕 . The avg. American makes around 22,000 a year and they still get by. For me to be happy, I could live in a mobile home and drive a crappy car because possessions mean very little to me 😎 . It’s very hard to make the choice to go to med school knowing that you will be sacrificing some of your younger years.
I'm approaching the cross roads on choosing my future career, and I still don't know. I want to be happy, I want to have good health, and I want stay smart, I want to live comfortably; I want a job I can go to and be happy with. I want free time to enjoy life while I'm still young and healthy. I feel as if my peers and others are pushing me to medical school. Where am I going to be 10 years down the road? What am I going to be doing when I’m 40, 50, 60, 70, or 80 years old?

If money isn't a big deal then you can pretty much work however you want to as a physician. Many people work part time and 4 days a week, it just sacrifices salary. Doctors don't necessarily have to work crazy hours or have a crazy life in many (less competitive) specialties. I know an EM doctor who works 2 days/ week and a dermatologist who works 3 right off the top of my head.

 

[medstyle]

At some point you've got to commit. I don't know how much time you've invested into getting into med school, maybe not much, but if you took some time off from work to get into school, you should go. When a person is 22, they've got a lot of options. But as you get older, certain things are not easy to commit to. Medicine will require a decade long commitment before you start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Its not that scary a commitment when youre 22, but i can see how it would be when you are 30 or older.

My advice to you is realize where your strengths are first, and how they match up with financial goals. Everyone wants to do something that makes them happy, and they would like to be paid doing it. If you hate engineering and feel like no matter what job you do in the field you will suck, then find a new field. Maybe consider starting your own business in engineering, or something else if you have capital.

However, I would recommend you stick with medicine since you started on the path. Its foolish do something you hate for your whole life, but you haven't even started med school but you've committed some part of you to get into it. Go, feel it out. Odds are you will be happy.

 

[blingblah]

to each his own; nothing worthwhile ever came without hardwork.

 

[WVmed]

If money isn't a big deal then you can pretty much work however you want to as a physician. Many people work part time and 4 days a week, it just sacrifices salary. Doctors don't necessarily have to work crazy hours or have a crazy life in many (less competitive) specialties. I know an EM doctor who works 2 days/ week and a dermatologist who works 3 right off the top of my head.

So they aren't trapped into anything? I thought most docs had some kind of HMO comtract that bears down on them, making them take X number of patients. However I know very little about what happens in the hospital or private practice settings.

 

[Bfriccia1]

So they aren't trapped into anything? I thought most docs had some kind of HMO comtract that bears down on them, making them take X number of patients. However I know very little about what happens in the hospital or private practice settings.

I don't know about others but these people don't. There are many different ways to practice, you just have to be willing to accept less income and search for the opportunity that fits what you want.

 

[john99]

If money isn't a big deal then you can pretty much work however you want to as a physician. Many people work part time and 4 days a week, it just sacrifices salary. Doctors don't necessarily have to work crazy hours or have a crazy life in many (less competitive) specialties. I know an EM doctor who works 2 days/ week and a dermatologist who works 3 right off the top of my head.

That's good to hear. I work for an HMO where the Dr.'s are pushed to evaluate the pt.'s in 15min, and most of the Dr.'s work M-F from 9-7pm. I can't see myself filling prescriptions for the rest of my life as a pharmacist. A lot of the pharmacists I work with fill very unfullfilled with their jobs and wish they would have done medicine instead. I find medicine to be much more fullfilling and challenging, and I love to learn, and that is the type of career that I think is best for me. When I have too much free time or I don't have a deadline to meet I tend to get very bored with life, so I fill I need the challenge at becoming a Dr., the only thing that bothers me is when I don't have enough time to go to the gym during the week, that really makes me mad, but I don't think that will be a problem when I'm a Dr.. Working in the pharmacy I feel a loss of connection when helping the pt.'s because I really don't get to know the pt.'s on the same level as Dr.'s, and most of the time the pt.'s are mad because they've spent the whole day at the hospital and they just want to hurry through the pharmacy and leave as soon as possible. I've noticed pt.'s dont have any complaints about waiting 45min to see the Dr., but if they have to wait 15min in the pharmacy, they get real mad. I feel Dr.'s actually get to use their brain and get to analyze things, as opposed to pharmacists who seem more like robots that fill scripts and give short 1min consults.

 

[WVmed]

That's good to hear. I work for an HMO where the Dr.'s are pushed to evaluate the pt.'s in 15min, and most of the Dr.'s work M-F from 9-7pm. I can't see myself filling prescriptions for the rest of my life as a pharmacist. A lot of the pharmacists I work with fill very unfullfilled with their jobs and wish they would have done medicine instead. I find medicine to be much more fullfilling and challenging, and I love to learn, and that is the type of career that I think is best for me. When I have too much free time or I don't have a deadline to meet I tend to get very bored with life, so I fill I need the challenge at becoming a Dr., the only thing that bothers me is when I don't have enough time to go to the gym during the week, that really makes me mad, but I don't think that will be a problem when I'm a Dr.. Working in the pharmacy I feel a loss of connection when helping the pt.'s because I really don't get to know the pt.'s on the same level as Dr.'s, and most of the time the pt.'s are mad because they've spent the whole day at the hospital and they just want to hurry through the pharmacy and leave as soon as possible. I've noticed pt.'s dont have any complaints about waiting 45min to see the Dr., but if they have to wait 15min in the pharmacy, they get real mad. I feel Dr.'s actually get to use their brain and get to analyze things, as opposed to pharmacists who seem more like robots that fill scripts and give short 1min consults.

John99, I hear ya. I have the same thoughts. When a career (or school for that matter) pulls me away from my habits like basketball, weight lifting, bicycling, etc, I get very frustrated. This is normal. As you progress thru medical school you will be pushed into exam mode for certain weeks, but the best thing is to still go to the gym at least for 30 mins. You will still be ticked off because you don't have time like your lazy friends who sleep in all day and their parents fluff their bank account with money while you are on loans working your A$$ off in med school.. But never fear, there is growth and learning involved and you will be the master of time management. Good luck

 

[lightnk102]

Hey WVMed.

I suppose the question here is - what is more important to you? Your life at work or your life outside of work? If your life outside of work is the only thing you care about, then it won't matter what your job is as long as it provides you with the means to do what you want after hours. My guess is that since you left your engineering job - your life at work matters at least somewhat to you. The difference between your engineering job and a doctor's job will lie in the intangibles. The question here is - how much do the intangibles matter to you?

If you're looking for meaning in those 8 hours (or more) a day that you spend at your job - then medicine is the place to be. However, I want to point out that medicine is not the only place to be. As others have mentioned, there's a variety of options if you want the fuzzies of helping others - becoming a teacher, coaching sports, becoming a social worker, etc. All with shorter roads to walk and less emotional toll (med school isn't easy). What is it about medicine that attracts you specifically? It's a long road to walk for the sake of an increased salary and freedom from the vagaries of the economy.

I myself left a tech consulting job and will be an incoming MS1 this fall as well. I understand the sentiment that a job is a job at the end of the day. My reasoning is this: If I'm going to have to put up with A-type personalities, and be forced to work in teams with people I don't like (happens in almost every career), then I need something to keep me going. At the end of a day at my old job, I'd leave my cubicle telling myself that my day's accomplishment was 4 excel sheets, a perl script, and a lot of meetings. However, as a doctor, regardless of how much crap I have to put up with, at the end of the day, it seems more justifiable and easier to bear because I'll have helped X number of people. Pair that with my own A-type personality (ha), a life long interest in science, and an obsession with Discovery Health Channel, and voila, you've got medicine.

It's important to have good reasons for why you're doing this. Because when the times get tough (especially during third year), those reasons will be the only thing that will keep you from falling off the wagon. Otherwise, you'll be trading one job that you hate for another job that you hate, except this one comes with a 100k debt load. Don't forget that you don't have to leave your engineering behind. You can always go into a field of medicine that has more engineering aspects to it, such as radiology, radiation oncology, or nuclear medicine.

 

[WVmed]

[...]]

At the end of a day at my old job, I'd leave my cubicle telling myself that my day's accomplishment was 4 excel sheets, a perl script, and a lot of meetings. However, as a doctor, regardless of how much crap I have to put up with, at the end of the day, it seems more justifiable and easier to bear because I'll have helped X number of people. Pair that with my own A-type personality (ha), a life long interest in science, and an obsession with Discovery Health Channel, and voila, you've got medicine.
.

This is a good description.

I also have a long interest in science. However there are a number of sciences I find more interesting than medicine, including bio-astronomy (the prospect of a biology on other planets) and also film physics.. These topics are very niche, not career goals but rather interest reading.
I think my career goal is to work as something solid and dependable; while still given the opportunity to meet hundreds of people (whether grumpy, sick, or not). These other sciences (engineering, physics research, academic/research) might not afford so much "society" as a position at the local hospital as a doc. I also like the idea of working 5 days a week 7-5. That's not bad at all for me, but somedays you have to stay until 7 no big deal.. Your the boss

 

[Doctobee]

hey WV,

I'm totally familiar about the second thoughts your'e having. I am aslo a ChemE with 5 years of work experience. During that time I worked for 2 different companies. The first job I absolutley loved becuase I was at the head of many projects, trials, and meetings. I got to travel oversees/abroad for meetings with suppliers/customers... The second job was such a rut and I absolutely hated it. However, during my whole 5 years of working career, I kept thinking "I would really like to be doctor". The thoughts of helping others on a personal level was soo cool and exillarating, but I just couldn't stand the thought about spending an additional many years in school/residency, and I just kept pushing the thought out of my mind. On top of that, my mother is a retired OB/GYN, and I know all about the difficulty and the sacrifices that a doctor has to make. So that was another thing that helped me to put my thoughts/dreams about becoming a doc on a backburner...

And during the application process, with all that crap, I kept asking myself if all that competitvenes, cut throat and sacrifices are worth all the effort.... and every time I coudn't see myself going back to being miserable doing my engineering job (although I think that that misery stems from just the nature of the company I worked for and the actual environment. I do think that I could have been possibly content doing engineering in another company). I can just visualize myself being a doctor, and that is just my dream (that is about to be fulfilled). I'm so stoked with the science of the human body, and I love to learn more. But that's just me. Every time I had these second thoughts, I always arrived at the same result - I want to be a doc. because I love everything associated about it (well most things - I don't love the insurance politics..)

So, for you, I guess you should really re-evaluate your true motives for your aspirations about going to med school. 8 Years is a really long time to be going into something that you are not absolutely sure about. And if you decide to go, you need to keep a clear vision of what keeps you going (for those times when you are in the middle of a weak moment and on the verge of quitting). The main thing is for you to do what feel right to you and not to all those around you, because it is your life and you have to be happy with the decisions you make...

With all that said - Good Luck!!

 

[WVmed]

hey WV,

I'm totally familiar about the second thoughts your'e having. I am aslo a ChemE with 5 years of work experience. During that time I worked for 2 different companies. The first job I absolutley loved becuase I was at the head of many projects, trials, and meetings. I got to travel oversees/abroad for meetings with suppliers/customers... The second job was such a rut and I absolutely hated it. However, during my whole 5 years of working career, I kept thinking "I would really like to be doctor". The thoughts of helping others on a personal level was soo cool and exillarating, but I just couldn't stand the thought about spending an additional many years in school/residency, and I just kept pushing the thought out of my mind. On top of that, my mother is a retired OB/GYN, and I know all about the difficulty and the sacrifices that a doctor has to make. So that was another thing that helped me to put my thoughts/dreams about becoming a doc on a backburner...

And during the application process, with all that crap, I kept asking myself if all that competitvenes, cut throat and sacrifices are worth all the effort.... and every time I coudn't see myself going back to being miserable doing my engineering job (although I think that that misery stems from just the nature of the company I worked for and the actual environment. I do think that I could have been possibly content doing engineering in another company). I can just visualize myself being a doctor, and that is just my dream (that is about to be fulfilled). I'm so stoked with the science of the human body, and I love to learn more. But that's just me. Every time I had these second thoughts, I always arrived at the same result - I want to be a doc. because I love everything associated about it (well most things - I don't love the insurance politics..)

So, for you, I guess you should really re-evaluate your true motives for your aspirations about going to med school. 8 Years is a really long time to be going into something that you are not absolutely sure about. And if you decide to go, you need to keep a clear vision of what keeps you going (for those times when you are in the middle of a weak moment and on the verge of quitting). The main thing is for you to do what feel right to you and not to all those around you, because it is your life and you have to be happy with the decisions you make...

With all that said - Good Luck!!

Thanks Doctobee, your insight was helpful to me. I also had times of brightness in engineering that seemed like great fun, project work going on smoothly, and my independence to choose projects from time to time. Other times I was given less freedom and sort of stuck on a spreadsheet with no real contact with people except for the typical bi-weekly staff mtg.
The bottom line is I think I can be verry happy doing engineering; I also think I can be very happy doing medicine. You had quite a few good points there, but your best one is that we need something finite and critical to keep us going thru medical school when the going gets tough. Simply relying on salary and job security might not work, I know my dad was an engineer, and he lived a good solid life. Also my grandfather was an engineer. What this means is, I am breaking the mold. It is so confusing, I will have to spend the summer thinking about it. Thanks again for your help Doctobee

 

[jaylily]

WV, I'm going through the same thing, although you are about 2 years ahead of me. Right now I'm studying for the August MCAT and returning to university for 1 year to get some prereq. courses for med school application. I'm currently an architect and completely unsatisfied with my career. So much so that the past hour has been spent reading posts here with the odd switch to my AutoCAD screen to change the depth of a truss. I find my profession to be incredibly superficial. It doesn't challenge me, in fact most times it bores me. I have had moments of getting into a project and finding enjoyment out of it, but those moments are rare. I've come to the conclusion that this is more of a hobby of mine, not a passion.
I've always had an interest in science and medicine. I love to learn and I love people (most of the time). Sometimes I find that I prefer task-based days, while others I prefer to tap into my knowledge and creativity. I like the satisfaction I get from helping people. (Is that considered selfish or unselfish? 🙂 ) Whenever I've thought about changing careers, I've always come back to medicine. I've thought of nursing and physical therapy as well, but feel that I'm best suited for medicine.
I've had doubts about pursuing it though because I'm almost 28 now, which is by no means old, but by the time I"m done med school and training, I"ll be pushing 40. Do I really want to start my 'real' career at that stage of life? I keep telling myself that so far I've only invested $100 in an MCAT prep book and $100 on an application fee for my upcoming year of university. If I back out now I"ll only be out $200, but I'll be stuck in a job that makes me miserable. I could switch to interior design, but that's even more superficial than architecture. I need a career that gives me a sense that I've done something useful for others.
Keep us posted on your thoughts through your first year of med school!

 

[medmo]

If there were anything else in the world that I thought would give me the satisfaction that medicine gives me, I would probably switch. It's that simple. Medicine is extremely demanding. I knew that before I went in. I spent about two and a half years after college trying to find something else that I would be happy to do - and you can do a surprising amount in that time. I even tried law school - quit that after a semester. The fact is, despite its problems, I love medicine.

WVMed, to be honest, if I went into med school with your mentality, I probably would not have made it even this far (end of third year). Let alone through intern year, which some say is even harder on you. You seem to be over-emphasizing the logistical issues. And I don't know if that will sustain you. To me, the core elements of medicine are the satisfaction of understanding pathophysiology and using that to help (or rarely cure) someone. I find that to be good at something, I have to work extremely hard. To do that, I have to enjoy it most of the time. Otherwise, I get resentful and bored, won't pay attention, screw up, get miserable, etc.

But, I've only read your posts. There may be something that's not coming through.

Also, I agree with the posters who say that there are a$$holes everywhere. Medicine may or may not have more than its fair share. Depends on who you ask. A lot of surgeons would disagree that surgeons are a$$holes. Maybe the rest of us are just whiners. Point is, it's all pretty irrelevant if you enjoy what you're doing.