Health Administration people

[SandyH]

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I just want to see what's everyone's opinions on people who are going for degrees in health administration (Bachelors or masters). I saw a receptionist today who mentioned that she was going to get a Bachelors in HA, and literally called the doctor I was shadowing a "sucker", and how "when she gets her degree, this place (the clinic) will not be able to afford her." I also had another instance where I met a friend of a friend who is already working at a major healthcare system here in the city, and literally told me that he will "hire me" when we first met.

 

[raiderette]

I actually dated a guy who went into HA at a major commercial cancer treatment center. He is of middling intelligence, but has control over how long doctors stay with patients, how they greet them, specific requests they make to measure satisfaction. I really don't look forward to begging for high satisfaction scores from my patients like I am a call center employee.

 

[Osteoth]

Don't work for them or "the man." Not rocket science, kid.

Good luck these days finding a good PP gig in a major city...

 

[ainsky]

Don't work for them or "the man." Not rocket science, kid.

Good luck these days finding a good PP gig in a major city...

can't remember where I read it but to paraphrase, those who realize how !@#$ed this system is (and how !@##ed the older generations of docs left it for us after milkking it dry) are smart enough to match into derm, ophtho, etc and stay away from this mess..

 

[wholeheartedly]

The people in various admin roles who actually have some experience on clinical side of healthcare and give a damn canbe ok. A lot of the rest seem completely clueless and make a lot of penny wise pound foolish type decisions about things.

 

[Psai]

They are generally not that smart and see doctors and patients as widgets. Unfortunately, the way federal regulations are set up takes away power from doctors by design, especially when obamacare doesn't allow for physician ownership of hospitals.

Expect to see more and more stupid rules while autonomy continually gets eroded, pay declines as you increasingly train your replacement.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I actually dated a guy who went into HA at a major commercial cancer treatment center. He is of middling intelligence, but has control over how long doctors stay with patients, how they greet them, specific requests they make to measure satisfaction. I really don't look forward to begging for high satisfaction scores from my patients like I am a call center employee.

That's only true because those doctors allow it.

I work for a large corporation. I set my schedule including duration of all appointments. They haven't said a word to me about how I greet patients.

Just last week they wanted me to start seeing walk ins. I said no. Hasn't been brought up since.

The day they try to force me to do something that I don't want to do is the day I turn in my notice and they know it.

 

[NicMouse64]

That's only true because those doctors allow it.

I work for a large corporation. I set my schedule including duration of all appointments. They haven't said a word to me about how I greet patients.

Just last week they wanted me to start seeing walk ins. I said no. Hasn't been brought up since.

The day they try to force me to do something that I don't want to do is the day I turn in my notice and they know it.

It seems, unlike many other professions nowadays, one of the main pieces of bargaining chips we (future me) will have left is the ability to walk away. If the profession gets too saturated like law, or other professions such as pharmacy, physicians will have little power to dictate how to take care of their patients. Whenever the AAMC sends me emails about the "doctor shortage", my stomach starts to turn, and makes me fearful of the massive amount of debt (and sweat and tears) I'm undertaking to enter this profession.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It seems, unlike many other professions nowadays, one of the main pieces of bargaining chips we (future me) will have left is the ability to walk away. If the profession gets too saturated like law, or other professions such as pharmacy, physicians will have little power to dictate how to take care of their patients. Whenever the AAMC sends me emails about the "doctor shortage", my stomach starts to turn, and makes me fearful of the massive amount of debt (and sweat and tears) I'm undertaking to enter this profession.

As 20% of licensed physicians are 60 and over, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Plus, the number of doctors practicing part time has increased. Its almost 50% of female doctors and 25% of male doctors. The latter seems to be mostly at the older ages so not as useful, but lots of female doctors go part time pretty early on (my wife went part time in June).

We're not going to be over saturated anytime soon.

 

[Goro]

That's only true because those doctors allow it.

I work for a large corporation. I set my schedule including duration of all appointments. They haven't said a word to me about how I greet patients.

Just last week they wanted me to start seeing walk ins. I said no. Hasn't been brought up since.

The day they try to force me to do something that I don't want to do is the day I turn in my notice and they know it.

Why don't you want to see walk-ins?

 

[atomi]

The reality is that most us will be working for administrators who started their careers in medicine as nurses, therapists, and X-ray techs who played the game and moved up. They were the straight C students in high school and college and 20 years later will think they own us, have superior decision making capability, and can get us fired if they don’t like us.

Welcome to the bloated, inefficient, and unfair modern American healthcare bureaucracy machine.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Why don't you want to see walk-ins?

Because if I wanted to do urgent care, I'd go work in an urgent care

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The reality is that most us will be working for administrators who started their careers in medicine as nurses, therapists, and X-ray techs who played the game and moved up. They were the straight C students in high school and college and 20 years later will think they own us, have superior decision making capability, and can get us fired if they don’t like us.

Welcome to the bloated, inefficient, and unfair modern American healthcare bureaucracy machine.

To an extent, yes. But its not that hard to work with them in ways that aren't just giving in to everything they want.

First, if you object to something they want you to do you need to have a good reason. "Because we've always done it this way" isn't one of them.

Second, you need to be making money. If you're productive, you're less likely to get any kind of anything from them because they don't want to rock the profitable boat.

Third, be prepared to walk. It is very expensive to replace a physician and they know it. This is especially effective if my second point is being met so they not only have to lose money getting a new doctor but the practice you left will lose volume because of you leaving.

 

[atomi]

To an extent, yes. But its not that hard to work with them in ways that aren't just giving in to everything they want.

First, if you object to something they want you to do you need to have a good reason. "Because we've always done it this way" isn't one of them.

Second, you need to be making money. If you're productive, you're less likely to get any kind of anything from them because they don't want to rock the profitable boat.

Third, be prepared to walk. It is very expensive to replace a physician and they know it. This is especially effective if my second point is being met so they not only have to lose money getting a new doctor but the practice you left will lose volume because of you leaving.

You’re primary care, right? In high demand? Can get a job tomorrow? Try being in an over saturated speciality, especially in a large coastal metro area. They have you by the balls and know it. If they don’t like you, they can professionally assassinate you. I’ve only been in this a few years but see it happen already.

They are little minds and obsess over trivial details because it’s all they can understand. But they’re too dumb to know how dumb they are. They think the rightfully deserve to run the place.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You’re primary care, right? In high demand? Can get a job tomorrow? Try being in an over saturated speciality, especially in a large coastal metro area. They have you by the balls and know it. If they don’t like you, they can professionally assassinate you. I’ve only been in this a few years but see it happen already.

They are little minds and obsess over trivial details because it’s all they can understand. But they’re too dumb to know how dumb they are. They think the rightfully deserve to run the place.

Well yeah, if you geographically limit yourself that much you're in a bind certainly. Maybe I should add a #4 - don't limit yourself to a major city on a coast.

I can't remember your specialty, but for some reason urology sticks in my head so I checked that. On practicelink alone, every single part of my state except Charleston has a job opening. And even for primary care, Charleston isn't a great job market - only 2 FM job listings at the moment.

But, non-primary care has the advantage of making more money so my point 2 is bigger for you than it would be for me. There is a reason ortho gets whatever it wants from the hospital while primary care as to fight for a microscope.

 

[libertyyne]

Physicians should take a larger role in administrative and leadership roles. The problem with that is that these roles are often a step down on the pay scale, so nurses end up taking these positions because they are either a step up or a way for them to avoid bedside care. That being said, physicians may report to administrators who are bumbling idiots. But the reality is that in any field you may have leaders that are bumbling idiots.

Large physician practices contracting with hospitals helps retain some of the autonomy that physicians crave, and the office managers in this instance are mostly glorified schedulers.
The other way physicians get insulated is through strong CMOs, when present.
Lastly i feel like physicians do and should push back more when non clinicians are influencing care.


IMO, The flip side of this is physicians as a whole have not been great in self policing. Overutilization of procedures is fairly rampant. So having a counterbalance to keep pestering you to make the right call isnt necessarily the end of the world.

 

[Psai]

Physicians should take a larger role in administrative and leadership roles. The problem with that is that these roles are often a step down on the pay scale, so nurses end up taking these positions because they are either a step up or a way for them to avoid bedside care. That being said, physicians may report to administrators who are bumbling idiots. But the reality is that in any field you may have leaders that are bumbling idiots.

Large physician practices contracting with hospitals helps retain some of the autonomy that physicians crave, and the office managers in this instance are mostly glorified schedulers.
The other way physicians get insulated is through strong CMOs, when present.
Lastly i feel like physicians do and should push back more when non clinicians are influencing care.


IMO, The flip side of this is physicians as a whole have not been great in self policing. Overutilization of procedures is fairly rampant. So having a counterbalance to keep pestering you to make the right call isnt necessarily the end of the world.

Nobody is clamping down on unnecessary procedures. Theyre obsessing about ******ed emr clicks and "squames". If you go out of your way to think of how to make healthcare worse and more inefficient, there's sure to be three suits already working on that project to justify their useless position.

 

[Goro]

Physicians should take a larger role in administrative and leadership roles. The problem with that is that these roles are often a step down on the pay scale, so nurses end up taking these positions because they are either a step up or a way for them to avoid bedside care. That being said, physicians may report to administrators who are bumbling idiots. But the reality is that in any field you may have leaders that are bumbling idiots.

Large physician practices contracting with hospitals helps retain some of the autonomy that physicians crave, and the office managers in this instance are mostly glorified schedulers.
The other way physicians get insulated is through strong CMOs, when present.
Lastly i feel like physicians do and should push back more when non clinicians are influencing care.


IMO, The flip side of this is physicians as a whole have not been great in self policing. Overutilization of procedures is fairly rampant. So having a counterbalance to keep pestering you to make the right call isnt necessarily the end of the world.

Another stumbling block is that clinicians don't want to take on those roles.

Ditto with Faculty. I could easily move into a Dean role; no way in holy hell I'm doing that.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

A picture of a HA graduation class had the caption “the future of healthcare”

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Another stumbling block is that clinicians don't want to take on those roles.

Ditto with Faculty. I could easily move into a Dean role; no way in holy hell I'm doing that.

And a lot of the ones who do shouldn't.

 

[Goro]

And a lot of the ones who do shouldn't.

😆😆😆😆

 

[RNthenDoc]

The problem is obvious, does anyone have workable solutions?

 

[SandyH]

Do health administration people generally earn more than doctors?

 

[NicMouse64]

The problem is obvious, does anyone have workable solutions?

There is no solution within the current system. The whole system needs to be scrapped and built from the ground up. This will, however never happen, due to the inertia of our current healthcare infrastructure. The only marginally impactful solution is to build a lobbying group for doctors that actually has their best interests in mind. What I've noticed is that most of my peers and MD educators really want what is best for our patients. In my opinion I think doctors should be given the freedom to determine how to practice medicine. We need a lobbying group such as the NRA (I hate the NRA but it's the best comparison) that solely looks out for the political interests of our profession. Then this group can influence the scrapping of laws or making of new laws that make the practice of medicine more cost efficient and easier to navigate for patients.

For example, get rid of malpractice laws, and make the language of these laws about negligence rather than bad outcomes. This is good for the system, and ultimately better for patients as a whole (less radiation exposure, less financial burden). This group would also get rid of the obamacare rule of not allowing physician ownership of hospitals. It would advocate for physician-lead care and advocate for laws clarifying that independent MLP care is illegal. Heck, it might even call for expansion of certain residency spots, after the MLP problem is fixed.

I could go on and on, but my impression is that the altruistic nature of physicians makes us weary of doing things seen as professionally "narcissistic". This is why all we have to advocate for the profession is the AAMC with their "doctor shortages" and "universal healthcare" agenda. (BTW I'm pretty pro universal healthcare, but other things need to be fixed first).

 

[WIFEL585]

Generally these are very low IQ people who talk a lot. Somehow due to the flaws of the American healthcare system they have a lot of power over things they are highly unqualified to be in charge of...

 

[Med Ed]

Generally these are very low IQ people who talk a lot. Somehow due to the flaws of the American healthcare system they have a lot of power over things they are highly unqualified to be in charge of...

Are they also prone to bumping 6-year-old threads?