Help/Advice/Support/Comfort Needed

[TheophaniaBee]

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Hey all,

I have a few questions & I'm in a bit of a pickle. More like, I dug myself a hole & I can't get out.

I'm planning on doing a formal postbacc & I'm starting MCAT classes this Sunday. I want to retake all of my awful grades I received in undergrad to boost my science GPA. That being said, I recently retook a class this summer & thought I'd get at least a B- as I got a C- the first time.

I did worse magically & received an F. Did well on the quizzes & scored awful on the midterms & final. Yes I studied, a lot. I understood the material 10x more than last time, but that didn't show did it? I need this class to completely graduate. It's part of my degree & if my professor doesn't change my grade, I don't even know what this means. What do I even do? What can I do?

Would I be able to just take the class at my school's extension classes for undergraduate credit or how does that even work?

 

[Gauss44]

Hey all,

I have a few questions & I'm in a bit of a pickle. More like, I dug myself a hole & I can't get out.

I'm planning on doing a formal postbacc & I'm starting MCAT classes this Sunday. I want to retake all of my awful grades I received in undergrad to boost my science GPA. That being said, I recently retook a class this summer & thought I'd get at least a B- as I got a C- the first time.

I did worse magically & received an F. Did well on the quizzes & scored awful on the midterms & final. Yes I studied, a lot. I understood the material 10x more than last time, but that didn't show did it? I need this class to completely graduate. It's part of my degree & if my professor doesn't change my grade, I don't even know what this means. What do I even do? What can I do?

Would I be able to just take the class at my school's extension classes for undergraduate credit or how does that even work?

If you've already received those grades, I don't know of anything you can do to erase them. What is your school's policy about deadlines for getting a pass/fail or incomplete grades?

You could try sending an email to your professors that you are in a situation regarding graduation and being a bad test taker (who knows the material). You don't expect anything and are just checking to see if they have any advice for you in your situation. If you're lucky, some professors might make a deal with you where you go back and write down why all of the test answer choices were right or wrong for additional credit. If you were to suggest something like that, I would do so indirectly, like you've heard, perhaps incorrectly, that professors have done that for people in the past and wanted to know if any options like that were available to you.

Your last question about the extension school is a good one for your college or academic adviser. Some schools allow that.

Going forward: I wonder why you did badly on the tests when you seemed to know the material? Have you been tested for learning disabilities in a neuropsychological evaluation? Have you been screened for psychological disorders impacting test taking like test anxiety? If not, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. If anything were found, I would ask how to solve those problems. It might be a matter of signing up for extra time on tests, for instance. Once I found the underlying problem, I would return to school for another year and redo any classes I failed, and do GPA repair if necessary.

After reading this thread and the post you put on the "I feel crappy" thread, I wanted to make sure you know about the Confidential Consult section in case you ever need to discuss something really personal: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=268

Hope you've found this to be helpful.

 

[futuremddo]

Hi there,

I'm no expert in the med school admissions process, but with that disclaimer out of the way, it seems to this outside observer that there are two separate problems here, and it might help you to sort through them to break them down:

1. Specific: Your graduation requirements include the class that you failed, and

2. Broad: Getting B-, C-, and Fs isn't going to help you get into med school.

As far as 1. is concerned, you should speak with your academic advisor, as each school has different policies on graduation requirements and what can be used to fulfill them.

The second problem is your performance in the courses. I would highly suggest getting this sorted out BEFORE taking any other courses, as every single course you take needs to be reported and the fewer poor grades the better. This could be included as part of the conversation with your advisor, because I'm sure your school has an academic support division that can help you evaluate where you're erring. Another person to speak with would be the professor of the course you failed. Perhaps you could memorize information but couldn't apply it to new situations. Or perhaps it was something completely different. But this will be useful information to use in conjunction with the support from your academic support team.

There area also many threads on SDN about study habits, but I think in your case you may need a more complete re-evaluation. Study habits can take a B/B+ student and turn them into an A student, but if you're getting lower than that there is something else that's fundamentally wrong.

And I say this with ZERO judgement; I'm a person who is overcoming a so-so GPA myself! Good luck!

 

[TheophaniaBee]

If you've already received those grades, I don't know of anything you can do to erase them. What is your school's policy about deadlines for getting a pass/fail or incomplete grades?

You could try sending an email to your professors that you are in a situation regarding graduation and being a bad test taker (who knows the material). You don't expect anything and are just checking to see if they have any advice for you in your situation. If you're lucky, some professors might make a deal with you where you go back and write down why all of the test answer choices were right or wrong for additional credit. If you were to suggest something like that, I would do so indirectly, like you've heard, perhaps incorrectly, that professors have done that for people in the past and wanted to know if any options like that were available to you.

Your last question about the extension school is a good one for your college or academic adviser. Some schools allow that.

Going forward: I wonder why you did badly on the tests when you seemed to know the material? Have you been tested for learning disabilities in a neuropsychological evaluation? Have you been screened for psychological disorders impacting test taking like test anxiety? If not, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. If anything were found, I would ask how to solve those problems. It might be a matter of signing up for extra time on tests, for instance. Once I found the underlying problem, I would return to school for another year and redo any classes I failed, and do GPA repair if necessary.

After reading this thread and the post you put on the "I feel crappy" thread, I wanted to make sure you know about the Confidential Consult section in case you ever need to discuss something really personal: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=268

Hope you've found this to be helpful.

E-mailed professor, did ask him about giving me an assignment that would prove to him that I deserve to pass.

E-mailed a college counselor, waiting to hear back.

I had temporarily thought I had a learning disability, looked into it a couple of days ago, & I know I absolutely do not. I always wish I had more time on tests as I am often bad with time management when I don't make a schedule, however, I'm an avid reader, I've been told I'm a great writer, & I retain information pretty well when paying attention. I'm a horrible test taker because I do get anxiety (who doesn't?), but I know I am fully capable of performing well on a test. I've been a pretty good student up until the weeder science classes kicked in. I do study really hard, but not hard enough I suppose.

The class average for the final was 57.5% ... in a genetics class. The physics classes I've taken don't even have averages that low.

I plan on doing an academic enhancer postbacc, so I'm really concerned about this one grade. Professor has allowed me to meet him next week, so I really hope he will give me this break.

& thank you for the suggestion on the confidential consult section, but it's not necessary. I'm just in tears about this as it is umm oh I don't know, destroying my future career forever.

 

[Gauss44]

E-mailed professor, did ask him about giving me an assignment that would prove to him that I deserve to pass.

E-mailed a college counselor, waiting to hear back.

I had temporarily thought I had a learning disability, looked into it a couple of days ago, & I know I absolutely do not. I always wish I had more time on tests as I am often bad with time management when I don't make a schedule, however, I'm an avid reader, I've been told I'm a great writer, & I retain information pretty well when paying attention. I'm a horrible test taker because I do get anxiety (who doesn't?), but I know I am fully capable of performing well on a test. I've been a pretty good student up until the weeder science classes kicked in. I do study really hard, but not hard enough I suppose.

The class average for the final was 57.5% ... in a genetics class. The physics classes I've taken don't even have averages that low.

I plan on doing an academic enhancer postbacc, so I'm really concerned about this one grade. Professor has allowed me to meet him next week, so I really hope he will give me this break.

& thank you for the suggestion on the confidential consult section, but it's not necessary. I'm just in tears about this as it is umm oh I don't know, destroying my future career forever.

I really hope that those emails work out for you, and that someone's willing to offer some help. I don't mean to be nosy, but I wonder how you "looked into" having a learning disability? If you sat down with a neuropsychologist for 5 or more hours of screening than I would say you've done your due diligence. I'm aware of many people, not on SDN, who are under the wrong impression that they can screen themselves, or only take a 5 minute internet test, or be screened by an untrained person. This is why I'm skeptical. A neuropsychologist should also be able to direct you to someone who can screen you for psychological reasons for test taking problems, not limited to test anxiety, or maybe even screen you themselves. (FYI - I don't like it when people second guess me, and I wouldn't second guess you, except for that I think if that were the underlying problem you would rather find out sooner than later. I know that a lot of people think they've been screened when they haven't been screened thoroughly or adequately.)

One last thing, I really hope you didn't use the words, "deserve to pass," when emailing your professor. If you did, I would reply to that email with the subject, "Please disregard previous email. This is the one I meant to send.," and change those words to something like, "know enough to pass." I just want to make sure that your bridge doesn't get burned as a result of wording something in a way that doesn't set well with the professor.

 

[TheophaniaBee]

This is from my school's website:

CHARACTERISTICS OF STUDENTS WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES

Common characteristics may include:

Long term difficulty in reading, writing, spelling and/or mathematical concepts in contrast to average or superior skills in other areas.
Slowed reading speed. Takes two or three times longer to read than other people.
Severe difficulty spelling common words.
Difficulty with mathematical concepts including calculation, time and space.
Excessive difficulty in learning a foreign language.
Difficulty expressing and organizing thoughts on paper.
Verbal skills far exceed reading, spelling and/or writing skills.
Difficulty taking notes and listening to a lecture at the same time.
Slowed processing of information: needs "think time" to respond to questions, to retrieve information or to solve problems.
Confusion of visually similar letters, numerals or words. Illegible handwriting.
Difficulty recalling and integrating information presented orally.
Trouble focusing and sustaining attention.


I do not have any of these characteristics. I speak 4 languages, I have no problems finishing a 350+ page book in a day (in fact, I make it a goal to read 40 a year, but I get to finish around 23 because I'm busy), I took AP Calculus in high school, spelling & grammar = forté, I've been told that I articulate myself very well in the written word & spoken, & I am constantly told that my memory is excellent, often creepy because I can recall what someone said to me just once & remember it long-term. If anything, I could be diagnosed as having OCD tendencies, which gets me into trouble as I'm now realizing....I obsess over something that interests me so it distracts me from what I really should be doing. I obsess about figuring out how to do the problem correctly that I have to mentally yell at myself during an exam, "girl you have to friggin move on if you want to finish!!! MOVE ON COME BACK TO IT LATER, OH EM GEE. STOP WORKING ON IT." Sometimes I feel like there's a heavy cloud on my brain that inhibits me from doing anything productive, but is only a product of either poor diet (too many carbs?) or lack of sleep.

Thanks for your concern on the wording of the phrase, although I doubt my professor will acknowledge the difference as it might be the same to him, I will e-mail him again. He did tell me that I could meet with him next week if I had any more questions. I'm going to try really hard to keep it together, but this is my future on the line & just typing that alone makes me teary-eyed.

 

[Gauss44]

He did tell me that I could meet with him next week if I had any more questions.

If he already responded to your email and didn't seem to notice the wording, I would NOT resend. If he hasn't responded yet, I would consider changing the wording if you said that.

Remember that if your problem only occurs when taking tests, you need to answer that list of questions according to how you are while taking a test, especially that last one on the list. If I were in your position, I would definitely call some neuropsychologists in your area, explain your problem, and ask them if they think you should get a screening and what kind. You might be able to get extra time for OCD if it impacts your test taking in certain ways. Your circumstances are unique and you need an expert to say for sure. Good luck!

 

[TheophaniaBee]

Realistically, my obstacle is with the sciences, which I think are attributed to the fact that I psyche myself out about them. Sciences aren't easy & if I keep telling myself that, I won't do well, so it is all in my head. I love the sciences. I love learning about virology, immunology, pathology, genetics, everything! I loved organic chemistry, but I tested horribly in it.

He hasn't given me a specific date or time to meet him, so should I e-mail him again saying that I would like to prove to him that I know enough to pass, even if my test scores don't reflect that?

I don't want to make excuses for myself when it comes down to OCD. I know I am fully capable of doing well on these tests, science or humanities, I just need to apply myself 500x more. Thank you for your advice, I appreciate it.

 

[Gauss44]

He hasn't given me a specific date or time to meet him, so should I e-mail him again saying that I would like to prove to him that I know enough to pass, even if my test scores don't reflect that?
.

Do whatever you think will serve you best since you know him. If you just emailed him, I would hold off for now. Either wait for his reply, or go to his office hours. Try to get him to want to help you by wording things and saying things in the best way you can. Your friends or even a counselor might help you come up with a few additional key phrases or a good ways to present this. They may even read your email for you and make suggestions. Something like, "Is there anything you can think of that might benefit me in this situation?," or "any advice or anything you would do to help me in this situation?" might work. If you look udderly miserable that might help too.

 

[TheophaniaBee]

Hah, I mean, I'm not going to lie, I will cry to no end because I am so miserable about this & even mumble something in his native language as we are both of the same ethnic background. It makes me so miserable that I retook this course to champion it only to completely fail. What even is that? How was that even possible? I don't know.

 

[Gauss44]

Hah, I mean, I'm not going to lie, I will cry to no end because I am so miserable about this & even mumble something in his native language as we are both of the same ethnic background. It makes me so miserable that I retook this course to champion it only to completely fail. What even is that? How was that even possible? I don't know.

Definitely don't lie.

I think your best argument is that you know the subject matter well, and if the class were graded on something other than tests, like assignments for example, you would have done much better.

You might be asked why you didn't say something sooner, as in before finals. The answer to that, if true, might be something like you thought you would struggle on the tests, but you didn't think you would do as poorly as you did.

You regret this outcome and fear it's too late, but you are checking with him anyway. Is there anything he can think of that can be done to help you?

Something like that.

(Most of this is what I think you said above, if I understood you correctly.)

 

[futuremddo]

My parents are professors and what I consistently hear from them is that they intensely (intensely intensely) dislike when students do poorly over an entire semester and then try to wheedle a grade out of them that they didn't deserve. Grades aren't typically a result of discussion between profs and students; they're a reflection on the student's quality of work over the course.

Rather, they like to see somebody take responsibility for their actions, recognize that they should have acted on it earlier (presumably you had some warning that you weren't doing so well in the class), explain the situation, realize that the professor owes the student nothing at this point, and ask if they could work together to figure out the best possible outcome to this situation. This is what you can do. It's a fine line between the first and second scenarios, so you have to make sure you fall squarely in the second.

But before this meeting with the professor, I would meet with your advisor. Even if you can get your professor to give you a passing grade, the course will still need to be re-taken for medical school. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think med schools will see much difference between an F and a D- on a transcript.

And in terms of general long-term med school plans, I'd be much more concerned about academic performance than the grade in this particular class. Even if you can get the professor to change the grade from a F to a D-, the fact remains that you studied hard but it didn't turn out too well. It also means that you didn't do so well on a midterm but weren't able to turn things around, even knowing how important the grade is. I'm not saying this to be hard on you -- believe me, with my background I can empathize more than you can imagine -- but as an outside observer those would be my biggest concerns. Presumably you're in the middle of another semester. I would definitely prioritize figuring out the academics and studying over this one grade.

Good luck!

 

[pietachok]

If anything, I could be diagnosed as having OCD tendencies, which gets me into trouble as I'm now realizing....I obsess over something that interests me so it distracts me from what I really should be doing. I obsess about figuring out how to do the problem correctly that I have to mentally yell at myself during an exam, "girl you have to friggin move on if you want to finish!!! MOVE ON COME BACK TO IT LATER, OH EM GEE. STOP WORKING ON IT." Sometimes I feel like there's a heavy cloud on my brain that inhibits me from doing anything productive, but is only a product of either poor diet (too many carbs?) or lack of sleep.

I'm assuming that you are correct and do not have a learning disorder. But you do not sound well and this is the tip of the iceberg, because the MCAT and every exam in med school and board exams are all going to be higher stakes than the exams you're taking now.

Go to your school's health services and talk to them about this. You may need referral to a psychiatrist for diagnosis of an anxiety disorder such as OCD if you really believe this is a possibility. This is not just important with regards to this course (and as someone already mentioned, groveling for a pass after the whole course is over isn't really legitimate unless your F is entirely based on the final exam), because if your anxiety is preventing you from succeeding in undergrad, how is it going to affect your ability to take the MCAT or go through med school. If you have a mental health issue interfering with your performance, you will likely qualify for accommodations such as extended testing time. It is important that you establish your diagnosis (if applicable) as soon as possible to ensure you get accommodations for those higher stakes situations like the MCAT. Regardless of whether or not you have an anxiety (or other disorder), I would inquire whether your student health services or insurance cover occupational therapy. An OT will work with you develop skills to overcome your tendency to become distracted or over-focused. They will also work with you to generally improve your study plans. Most schools also have a learning specialist -- they tend to be a resource for those who need to develop new methods of studying. You can see if they are helpful, but from your description, I think you know *how* to study and have a bigger issue with anxiety/will power/etc.

Good Luck.

 

[yossarian444]

This is from my school's website:

CHARACTERISTICS OF STUDENTS WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES

Common characteristics may include:

Long term difficulty in reading, writing, spelling and/or mathematical concepts in contrast to average or superior skills in other areas.
Slowed reading speed. Takes two or three times longer to read than other people.
Severe difficulty spelling common words.
Difficulty with mathematical concepts including calculation, time and space.
Excessive difficulty in learning a foreign language.
Difficulty expressing and organizing thoughts on paper.
Verbal skills far exceed reading, spelling and/or writing skills.
Difficulty taking notes and listening to a lecture at the same time.
Slowed processing of information: needs "think time" to respond to questions, to retrieve information or to solve problems.
Confusion of visually similar letters, numerals or words. Illegible handwriting.
Difficulty recalling and integrating information presented orally.
Trouble focusing and sustaining attention.


I do not have any of these characteristics. I speak 4 languages, I have no problems finishing a 350+ page book in a day (in fact, I make it a goal to read 40 a year, but I get to finish around 23 because I'm busy), I took AP Calculus in high school, spelling & grammar = forté, I've been told that I articulate myself very well in the written word & spoken, & I am constantly told that my memory is excellent, often creepy because I can recall what someone said to me just once & remember it long-term. If anything, I could be diagnosed as having OCD tendencies, which gets me into trouble as I'm now realizing....I obsess over something that interests me so it distracts me from what I really should be doing. I obsess about figuring out how to do the problem correctly that I have to mentally yell at myself during an exam, "girl you have to friggin move on if you want to finish!!! MOVE ON COME BACK TO IT LATER, OH EM GEE. STOP WORKING ON IT." Sometimes I feel like there's a heavy cloud on my brain that inhibits me from doing anything productive, but is only a product of either poor diet (too many carbs?) or lack of sleep.

Thanks for your concern on the wording of the phrase, although I doubt my professor will acknowledge the difference as it might be the same to him, I will e-mail him again. He did tell me that I could meet with him next week if I had any more questions. I'm going to try really hard to keep it together, but this is my future on the line & just typing that alone makes me teary-eyed.

Crap. I'm learning disabled.