Help classifying experience type

[tireddreamer847]

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I need help/thoughts on what experience type (i.e. clinical volunteering, shadowing, nonclinical volunteering) these 2 experiences I've done would be classified as....

1. Unpaid internship in an early intervention program for children aged 18mos to 3yrs who have a developmental disorder such as autism and down syndrome. I basically worked with the kids all day on their skills in their developmental weaknesses through play-based therapy. The kids must have received a formal diagnosis of some type of developmental disorder in order to enter this program.
   
   
2. This one is tricky. I shadowed a pediatric neurologist in her clinic who works on the assessment and treatment of children from birth onwards with neurodevelopmental disabilities like autism and epilepsy. Tuesday through Friday I would literally shadow her by sitting behind her desk in her consultation appointments with patients, but during those times I would often take care of and play with the infant patients so the parents can focus on the appointment. And then on Mondays the doctor wasn't at the clinic so I would volunteer in the intensive outpatient program that is in her clinic with kids with similar neurodevelopmental disabilities who are receiving intensive therapy. In addition, for an hour or two every day I would both observe the actual testing assessment and also subsequently score the testing and compile it into a report.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!!

 

[Engrailed]

IMO,
I would do
1. Clinical
2. shadowing (if you dont already have shadowing elsewhere). If you have shadowing already, this would be clinical.

 

[Catalystik]

For second item listed:

a) I shadowed a pediatric neurologist in her clinic who works on the assessment and treatment of children from birth onwards with neurodevelopmental disabilities like autism and epilepsy. Tuesday through Friday I would literally shadow her by sitting behind her desk in her consultation appointments with patients, but during those times I would often take care of and play with the infant patients so the parents can focus on the appointment.

b) 1) And then on Mondays the doctor wasn't at the clinic so I would volunteer in the intensive outpatient program that is in her clinic with kids with similar neurodevelopmental disabilities who are receiving intensive therapy.
b) 2) In addition, for an hour or two every day I would both observe the actual testing assessment and also subsequently score the testing and compile it into a report.

a) Either physician shadowing or Volunteer-Non Medical/Clinical, but not both as you can't double count the hours. (Or you split the hours into two categories.)

b) 1) Volunteer-Clinical
b) 2) Volunteer-Not Clinical

Alternatively, if you are short on spaces, you could list all of it like an Internship, which tends to include multiple components, under the Other tag.

 

[Engrailed]

a) Either physician shadowing or Volunteer-Non Medical/Clinical, but not both as you can't double count the hours. (Or you split the hours into two categories.)

b) 1) Volunteer-Clinical
b) 2) Volunteer-Not Clinical

Alternatively, if you are short on spaces, you could list all of it like an Internship, which tends to include multiple components, under the Other tag.

@Catalystik is the AMCAS expert
OP, you have your answer!

 

[Kirby Smart]

It’s probably worth noting that you can generally classify experiences that are vaguely related to different areas as whatever you want as long as you can explain it being whatever category you ultimately choose. If you needed more clinical hours or something I think you could probably say the second one was clinical volunteering since you were workin with patients, ie no less clinical than people who push patients in wheelchairs around a hospital.

 

[Catalystik]

It’s probably worth noting that you can generally classify experiences that are vaguely related to different areas as whatever you want as long as you can explain it being whatever category you ultimately choose. If you needed more clinical hours or something I think you could probably say the second one was clinical volunteering since you were workin with patients, ie no less clinical than people who push patients in wheelchairs around a hospital.

It's true that sometimes you you have a choice of how to categorize an activity when it fits several in order to to create a better balanced application.

 

[tireddreamer847]

a) Either physician shadowing or Volunteer-Non Medical/Clinical, but not both as you can't double count the hours. (Or you split the hours into two categories.)

b) 1) Volunteer-Clinical
b) 2) Volunteer-Not Clinical

Alternatively, if you are short on spaces, you could list all of it like an Internship, which tends to include multiple components, under the Other tag.

@Catalystik Okay so I just graduated from college this past June and am applying next cycle. NOT including the 2 experiences I listed in my original post, these are the approximate hours I have so far...

Volunteering-Not clinical = 600 hours
Volunteering-Clinical = 60 hours
Shadowing = 77 hours
Research = 1800 hours

Since it seems like some of the classification is personal decision, given my accumulated hours does your advised classifications still stand?

And even though the first experience wasn't with an actual doctor or in an actual hospital, it could still count as clinical volunteering? Or would it be better to list it as internship under Other?

 

[Kirby Smart]

And even though the first experience wasn't with an actual doctor or in an actual hospital, it could still count as clinical volunteering? Or would it be better to list it as internship under Other?

Experiences can be clinical even if they're not in the field of medicine or in a hospital, etc. Experiences working with psychologists, PTs, etc. are all clinical experiences (given you're working with "patients" in some capacity)

 

[tireddreamer847]

Experiences can be clinical even if they're not in the field of medicine or in a hospital, etc. Experiences working with psychologists, PTs, etc. are all clinical experiences (given you're working with "patients" in some capacity)

Ahh okay that makes sense, thank you!!

 

[Catalystik]

@Catalystik Okay so I just graduated from college this past June and am applying next cycle. NOT including the 2 experiences I listed in my original post, these are the approximate hours I have so far...

Volunteering-Not clinical = 600 hours
Volunteering-Clinical = 60 hours
Shadowing = 77 hours
Research = 1800 hours

1) Since it seems like some of the classification is personal decision, given my accumulated hours does your advised classifications still stand?

2) And even though the first experience wasn't with an actual doctor or in an actual hospital, it could still count as clinical volunteering? Or would it be better to list it as internship under Other?

For the second item originally listed
a) Either physician shadowing or Volunteer-Non Medical/Clinical, but not both as you can't double count the hours. (Or you split the hours into two categories.)

b) 1) Volunteer-Clinical
b) 2) Volunteer-Not Clinical

Alternatively, if you are short on spaces, you could list all of it like an Internship, which tends to include multiple components, under the Other tag.

If you include all of the first activity you originally listed and b1) of the second, how many extra hours might that get you for Clinical volunteering (besides the other 60 you mentioned)?

For b2) what did you mean by "observe the actual testing assessment " and how many hours was that? How many extra hours was "score the testing and compile it into a report"? Rough estimates are fine. Who did the testing assessments?

What did the 60 hours of clinical experience consist of?

 

[tireddreamer847]

If you include all of the first activity you originally listed and b1) of the second, how many extra hours might that get you for Clinical volunteering (besides the other 60 you mentioned)?

For b2) what did you mean by "observe the actual testing assessment " and how many hours was that? How many extra hours was "score the testing and compile it into a report"? Rough estimates are fine. Who did the testing assessments?

What did the 60 hours of clinical experience consist of?

If I include all of the first activity (288) and b1) of the second (90ish), that would get me 378 hours not counting the other 60 I mentioned for Clinical volunteering. I received the other 60 hours I had mentioned by working (unpaid) at a medical convention for 12 hours for 5 days where a few doctors from around the world (US, France, Venezuela, England) set up free clinics for kids with a certain rare genetic disorder to be seen.

For b2), what would happen is that children who either were first seen by the clinic's pediatric neurologist or were seen by another doctor and referred here would be assessed by clinical psychologists who worked in tandem with the pediatric neurologist in her clinic center. The clinical psychologist would be with the kid in a private room doing the assessment (e.g. ADOS for autism, WISC for cognitive functioning), and I would be in a separate room watching a live feed with audio of the assessment (there was a camera and microphone in the room). In the beginning I would just be observing and that's it, but later on the clinical psychologists would give me a copy of the assessment rubric and have me fill it out while watching the assessment and then compare my results to the psychologist's actual notes. Then afterwards, each assessment's results needs to be coded/scored and then inputted into a computer program. I even did the initial autism observational screening tool for a new child and presented it at the biweekly meeting between the doctors and therapists. And I compiled 4 different discharge reports for departing kids that consisted of all their assessments and progress reports.
----- Timing wise, each assessment would take probably on average 60min, and I only actually observed 8 assessments (so about 8 hours total). Scoring the assessments and compiling reports probably was about 20 hours.

 

[Catalystik]

And even though the first experience wasn't with an actual doctor or in an actual hospital, it could still count as clinical volunteering? Or would it be better to list it as internship under Other?

Experiences can be clinical even if they're not in the field of medicine or in a hospital, etc. Experiences working with psychologists, PTs, etc. are all clinical experiences (given you're working with "patients" in some capacity)

Other examples are EMTs, battlefield medics, and camps for kids with special health issues where you work with/assist a nurse. While all adcomms may not agree with Kirby Smart, I do. You are working with patients, referred by physicians, under the direction of someone with more training than you have. I assume youu are not just playing with kids, but rather are working from a template or list of instructions, or some such? Is this correct? Do you write reports or report verbally to someone in charge?

 

[Catalystik]

A) If I include all of the first activity (288) and b1) of the second (90ish), that would get me 378 hours not counting the other 60 I mentioned for Clinical volunteering. I received the other 60 hours I had mentioned by working (unpaid) at a medical convention for 12 hours for 5 days where a few doctors from around the world (US, France, Venezuela, England) set up free clinics for kids with a certain rare genetic disorder to be seen.

B) For b2), what would happen is that children who either were first seen by the clinic's pediatric neurologist or were seen by another doctor and referred here would be assessed by clinical psychologists who worked in tandem with the pediatric neurologist in her clinic center. The clinical psychologist would be with the kid in a private room doing the assessment (e.g. ADOS for autism, WISC for cognitive functioning), and I would be in a separate room watching a live feed with audio of the assessment (there was a camera and microphone in the room). In the beginning I would just be observing and that's it, but later on the clinical psychologists would give me a copy of the assessment rubric and have me fill it out while watching the assessment and then compare my results to the psychologist's actual notes. Then afterwards, each assessment's results needs to be coded/scored and then inputted into a computer program. I even did the initial autism observational screening tool for a new child and presented it at the biweekly meeting between the doctors and therapists. And I compiled 4 different discharge reports for departing kids that consisted of all their assessments and progress reports.
----- Timing wise, each assessment would take probably on average 60min, and I only actually observed 8 assessments (so about 8 hours total). Scoring the assessments and compiling reports probably was about 20 hours.

A) With all that included for Clinical Volunteering, you have enough.

B) What a mixed bag of experience. You have Psychologist shadowing in there, too. And the nonclinical volunteering. You can divide that out as you like, or include it all under an Internship-like experience to make it simpler.

A potential concern about the clinical experience you've accumulated is that there isn't much variety of exposure. In the next year before you apply, could you possibly get in another activity where you'd interact with acutely ill and/or injured folks?

 

[tireddreamer847]

Other examples are EMTs, battlefield medics, and camps for kids with special health issues where you work with/assist a nurse. While all adcomms may not agree with Kirby Smart, I do. You are working with patients, referred by physicians, under the direction of someone with more training than you have. I assume youu are not just playing with kids, but rather are working from a template or list of instructions, or some such? Is this correct? Do you write reports or report verbally to someone in charge?

Correct. In this internship, we would get trained beforehand and for each kid have a specific regimen/progress we would try to target based on his/her abilities and disabilities. In this specific internship (summer after freshman year), I mainly reported verbally to someone in charge but I did also take notes on the different kids each day

 

[Catalystik]

Correct. In this internship, we would get trained beforehand and for each kid have a specific regimen/progress we would try to target based on his/her abilities and disabilities. In this specific internship (summer after freshman year), I mainly reported verbally to someone in charge but I did also take notes on the different kids each day

Perfect! Be sure to mention all that in your description.

 

[tireddreamer847]

A) With all that included for Clinical Volunteering, you have enough.

B) What a mixed bag of experience. You have Psychologist shadowing in there, too. And the nonclinical volunteering. You can divide that out as you like, or include it all under an Internship-like experience to make it simpler.

A potential concern about the clinical experience you've accumulated is that there isn't much variety of exposure. In the next year before you apply, could you possibly get in another activity where you'd interact with acutely ill and/or injured folks?

B) Is there any benefit to include it as an internship under 'other' vs more clinical experience or shadowing?

Your point about the potential concern is a good one. I should say that I've worked with special needs kids basically since kindergarten and since then I've done summer camps for special needs kids for 7 years, special ed, disabled soccer, social skills groups, infant development, another early intervention program, and then was first a volunteer but then the president for 2 years of an organization in college where every week we college students would go and play with children aged 4 to 12 with autism. And I didn't decide to pursue the premed track until the fall of my junior year of college, but as you can see my entire narrative and reasoning for doing so is because of my passion for working with special needs kids.

The 77 hours of shadowing I had mentioned in the very beginning were from a developmental-behavioral pediatrician (45 hours) (special needs kids again though), a pediatric neurosurgeon (14 hours w/ 4 surgeries), and the NICU (18 hours).

But being that I am taking 2 gap years and won't apply until next June, I can take up other clinical experiences in other areas if need be.

 

[Catalystik]

B) Is there any benefit to include it as an internship under 'other' vs more clinical experience or shadowing?

C) Your point about the potential concern is a good one. I should say that I've worked with special needs kids basically since kindergarten and since then I've done summer camps for special needs kids for 7 years, special ed, disabled soccer, social skills groups, infant development, another early intervention program, and then was first a volunteer but then the president for 2 years of an organization in college where every week we college students would go and play with children aged 4 to 12 with autism. And I didn't decide to pursue the premed track until the fall of my junior year of college, but as you can see my entire narrative and reasoning for doing so is because of my passion for working with special needs kids.

The 77 hours of shadowing I had mentioned in the very beginning were from a developmental-behavioral pediatrician (45 hours) (special needs kids again though), a pediatric neurosurgeon (14 hours w/ 4 surgeries), and the NICU (18 hours).

But being that I am taking 2 gap years and won't apply until next June, I can take up other clinical experiences in other areas if need be.

B) No.

C) As a pediatrician myself, I highly approve of the overall theme of your application, but we want to be sure it appeals more broadly. You don't want to be a one-trick pony if you can avoid it, and fortunately, you have the time for additional experiences.

 

[tireddreamer847]

B) No.

C) As a pediatrician myself, I highly approve of the overall theme of your application, but we want to be sure it appeals more broadly. You don't want to be a one-trick pony if you can avoid it, and fortunately, you have the time for additional experiences.

Ok that makes sense, thank you. Any recommendations for such experiences? Without coming across as box-checking I guess, but not sure if that's even possible.

 

[Catalystik]

Ok that makes sense, thank you. Any recommendations for such experiences? Without coming across as box-checking I guess, but not sure if that's even possible.

Experience with other age groups would be nice, perhaps via hospital or inpatient dementia unit, family-planning, VA, free, or low-income clinic, skilled-level nursing home, or hospice. See what's close to where you live so commute times are sustainable.

 

[tireddreamer847]

Experience with other age groups would be nice, perhaps via hospital or inpatient dementia unit, family-planning, VA, free, or low-income clinic, skilled-level nursing home, or hospice. See what's close to where you live so commute times are sustainable.

Sorry for the late reply, some family stuff came up. Thank you for those ideas!

Quick follow-up question-- I understand that volunteering in a specific area all in college but then stopping after college may come across as box-checking. In my case, I volunteered for and ended up being the president of a campus organization where we college students went off-campus and played with children with autism in the community. But because that ended once I graduated, I am no longer doing that.

If I had to choose one area to volunteer in during my gap years, would it be better to continue volunteering in an area involving special needs children or to stretch my boundaries with other demographics like you had mentioned? I am currently about to start studying for the MCAT with a goal test date of January, and would prefer to only have one volunteering responsibility during this time (I am also babysitting for income) and then having a full- to part-time job after I take the exam (still haven't decided whether that job would be clinical or not). Any thoughts?

 

[Catalystik]

Thank you for those ideas!

Quick follow-up question-- I understand that volunteering in a specific area all in college but then stopping after college may come across as box-checking. In my case, I volunteered for and ended up being the president of a campus organization where we college students went off-campus and played with children with autism in the community. But because that ended once I graduated, I am no longer doing that.

If I had to choose one area to volunteer in during my gap years, would it be better to continue volunteering in an area involving special needs children or to stretch my boundaries with other demographics like you had mentioned? I am currently about to start studying for the MCAT with a goal test date of January, and would prefer to only have one volunteering responsibility during this time (I am also babysitting for income) and then having a full- to part-time job after I take the exam (still haven't decided whether that job would be clinical or not). Any thoughts?

I think it will benefit your application most to add clinical volunteering with another demographic group. You'd still be free to devote time now or later to nonmedical community service to kids with autism or other developmental or neurologic issues when time permits with a nearby organization.

If you thought for sure you could get a job in clinical service after the January test (by no means assured), putting off the acquisition of additional active clinical experience til then would be fine, even though you'd have maybe only four months worth by the time you apply.