HELP! Couple Geo Location Dilemma

[az_zulu]

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Hi. I'm currently in a serious relationship with a foreigner (French guy). I'm applying to Clinical PhD programs in the States for acceptance in the Fall of 2007. He currently lives in France (so do I temporarily) and we are hoping he will find a job in the States where I get accepted. I'm finding it extremely challenging to not only focus on finding the right school and prof to fit my interests but to also focus on finding the "just right" location for the both of us. He would prefer a city because he would obviously find a job more easily. He just began working with an American company here in France (Accenture -big consulting company) at the beginning of this year to better his chances of finding a job in the States. My father is also in the same line of work and him or his friends can hopefully figure something out for my boyfriend.

Has anyone else felt the pressure of this couple geo location dilemma? I have a list of my top 15 schools but there are some in there I couldn't imagine him finding a job at, but I also couldn't imagine removing them from the list for the sake of my education. I also want to maximize my chances of getting in by applying to as many schools as possible. Example (Lehigh University (small town Pennsylvania) vs. Georgia State in Atlanta)

Any advice??

 

[Psychbird]

I went through a similar situation with my husband when we applied. It was a little different because we were both applying to grad school (in different areas). Essentially, what it boiled down to was where we wanted to put our priorities. That's the question you'll have to ask yourself when the time comes. What we decided was that our relationship was the most important thing. So we applied to a LOT of programs, but only programs where there was a match for both of is. I found many programs that I liked, as did he, but if the other wouldn't be able to go to school there, we didn't apply. Flexibility is key, I think. In the end, we got into two schools that we both matched on. The rest either he got in and I didn't, or vice versa.

Good luck! I wish you all the best. It's not easy.

 

[Psyclops]

This is beside the point, but come interview time next year, make sure you are available to come state side, or are already back in the states. Schools will not cut you slack for being abraod if they are interested in interviewing you. They will want you to come if at all possible, and if they think you were wasting thier time because you were abroad, they won't appreciate it. Just something to think about. Otherwise, Bonne chance!

 

[clinpsychgirl]

I understand your dilemma. and I really agree with what psychbird said- this is a question you will have to ask yourself when the time comes. Only you know where your priorities lie.

I had a quazi-similar situation of trying to factor in a serious relationship with graduate school applications.

When I applied, I knew there was something very specific I wanted to get out of my graduate school experience that I personally wasn't willing to sacrifice (e.g. research oriented, child focused, strong prep for academic career). So, I applied to the 9 of the very best programs for me. They all met the aforementioned criteria, though, admittedly, a few of the programs I applied to were a bit of a stretch in terms of the research match but would have put my partner and I atleast "near" eachother. Most were perfect matches nowhere near my significant other. There was only one program that I applied to that was a perfect match and would have made being together with my partner feasible.

I truly believe that things have a funny way of working themselves out b/c guess which school I ended up at 🙂 I am confident that things will work themselves out for you too. I know how stressful it can be.

Good luck!

 

[alienarms]

I'm also applying this year for admission in 2007. I feel you-my BF has to try to find a job wherever I end up, and it may not be optimal for him. We've been having a lot of trouble with this, since I have moved for his career in the past and now the tables are turned. But after thinking about this for a LONG time, I have finally reached the conclusion that I have worked too hard and sacrificed too much to short-change myself. I have to apply to schools that fit me, not my BF, unfortunately. We've been together for 3+ years, and we care deeply about one another, but the fact is, you have to make the right decision for yourself. Of course, we all hope things work out the way we want them to, and I'm doing what I can to apply to places where he'll have a hope of finding a good job, but in the end, I have to do this for me and for my career. And let's be honest-this process is hard enough without the added constraint of finding a place that's perfect for your SO as well. If we end up separated because of it, I'll be sad, of course, but the hard truth is that my career and my education have to be a priority. I wish you the best of luck-you can PM me if you want and we can commiserate.

 

[perfektspace]

But after thinking about this for a LONG time, I have finally reached the conclusion that I have worked too hard and sacrificed too much to short-change myself. I have to apply to schools that fit me, not my BF, unfortunately. We've been together for 3+ years, and we care deeply about one another, but the fact is, you have to make the right decision for yourself.

That pretty much says it all.

If you were married it would be one thing but in your situation try and count how many variables have to match up for things to work out ideally. My wife and I were able to do this successfully so of course its possible but it calls for a great deal of sacrifice that will fall mostly on his shoulders. Can he handle that? Good luck.

By the way, never trust the French.

 

[clinpsychgirl]

alien arms, I think you are going about this in a great way....

on a related note- I didn't even get interviewed at the schools that I applied where I stretched my research interests (due to geographic appeal). I think the adcoms saw that "something wasn't right".

If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have wasted my time/money and would have taken alien arm's approach- meaning I would have solely applied to schools where I was a perfect fit fit the program of research.

But, ofcourse, this is a very personal decision. For plenty of people (probably more than not), the SO will play a huge factor in their decision, and I don't think that can be blanket statemented as a "wrong" or "right" approach.

 

[az_zulu]

Time for the next set of questions regarding this topic:

So my boyfriend is French and we met in the States while he was doing an internship and I was doing a Masters in Child Development in Boston. He lived in the States for about 7 months and really did not enjoy his stay all that much. He strongly prefers that we not live in the states any longer than the time it takes me to complete the PhD program. He hopes I can complete the program in 6 years or less and of course I can't promise anything.

Plus I need to get licensed and get some experience before returning back to Europe. He wants to live and work in Europe and so the compromise for us is to move to England (I just started learning French 6 months ago so I'm not exactly fluent and couldn't imagine doing my work in another language - at least not at the very beginning).

Any suggestions for this part of my dilemma? Of course this is in the far future, if we even make it through the first step of the transition which is to get to the States in one peice and in one geo location that fits the both of us.

I wouldn't mind working in London or another part of England but would it be in my best interest to just take my degree and run? I can't wait for this round of comments....

 

[Psyclops]

Ask your BF what this means. "Il vaut mieux avoir de remords que de regret." If you plan on working in the UK you should figure out how that works. Do you want to do clinical practice there? Or academic work? Remember, it is tough to plan for post PhD before you have started. I don't know how old you are but there will be alot of growing going on over that time period.

 

[perfektspace]

Seems that your FBF has put you in a precarious position. As psyclops mentioned it would be difficult for you to have already planned your post-grad life before you have even started. So he doesn't like America and you don't want to work in France... so naturally you will reside in England? Does anyone win in this scenario?

If he dislikes living in the states so much how is he going to handle 7+ years of it while you are in school? Seems like a bad spot for both of you. Go where you can be successful and if he isn't willing to make a sacrifice that might be a sign of things to come.

Besides its all a gamble, the French are notorious for changing their minds.

 

[alienarms]

I have to agree with perfektspace on this-you can't plan out the next 5-8 years today. I think that if your own goal was to work in England, that would be one thing, but it seems like a poor compromise IMHO. And a lot can happen in 6 years; I think I would be concerned that the basis (my relationship) of all my decisions would change in that time. Again, this is just my own opinion, and this is something you have to figure out for yourself in the end. Ask yourself how committed he is to you, and you to him. How long have you been together? Ask yourself if you'll be happy as an American-educated psychologist working in a foreign country. Ask yourself if you're willing to do the additional work you'll no doubt require to be licensed in England. I sincerely hope that everything works out for you.

 

[Psyclops]

While we are talking about France, Z, have you read David Sedaris, "Me talk pretty one day"? Or, "Le Divorce"? I don't know the author of le divorce. But if you have been living in france you will apprecaite them.

 

[mmcarson]

If you are going to end up in England, shouldn't you do your training there? It seems that if you go to school in the states and then go to Enlgland, they might want you to take extra training so that you are comparable to others in the field there.

BTW, Psyclops, I love "Me Talk Pretty One Day", Sedaris is hysterical.

 

[az_zulu]

Thanks again everyone for your replies. I really appreciate the advice. To answer some of your questions. I'm 24 and my boyfriend is the same age (but French so a bit more mature than the average 24 year old male, all my friends in the States thought he was 30). We have been dating (half of the time long distance) for almost 2 years in June. After I graduated from my Masters program in Boston I moved to Paris to be with him. So I've been living here since July 05. Before that we were seperated for the majority of the beginning of our relationship so things became very rocky when he returned to France and I was still at my Masters program in the States. Before he left to return to France he told me we should move to England to be together. After just two months apart he broke it off via email and said he couldn't imagine himself living anywhere but France. BAD I know. We didn't talk for a few months but then I ended up going to visit him for 2 weeks in France. We sorted things out a bit then and decided to give it another shot.

So now that I've been living with him for 10 months things have been fantastic. He is scared of moving to the States which I think is natural (a 6 year or longer commitment somewhere he doesn't really like to live all that much). But he is willing to do it for me. He really dislikes the US and I can understand him to a point. He works in business consulting and IT so corporate America isn't exactly his cup of tea. He wouldn't mind it temporarily and does think that working in the US for some time will boost his resume but for overall quality of life he just can't see himself there. He dislikes the following about the US: Europe has a cheaper health system, more secure pension plans in his field, and many more paid vacation weeks. I get all that but the truth is I'm just not sure if I'm going to want to be in England after graduating from PhD. You are all right when you say that it is way too difficult to plan so far ahead for post grad. Why should anyone have to right?

As for doing my training in England. I've definitely looked into that but it's not so simple. The training is quite different. Only takes 3 years to become a clinical psychologist (would never be equivalent in the States). I've talked to some British psychologists and they have told me that most if not all programs do not offer funding to US citizens.

My interests are in developmental disabilities and especially autism so I really want to get my education in the States because I feel like that is where it's at for the field. I know they are doing a lot in England too but I'm very unfamilar with there education system and a lot of schools follow a psychoanalytic perspective (I prefer biopsychosocial, systems, and cog-behavioral).

I know that if I want to move to England after obtaining a PhD in the States that it's not so difficult. You don't have to do extra training (US clinical PhD's are highly respected in England). You simply have to take a test for licensure and apply to be accepted into the British Psychological Society. It's not necessarily a piece of cake to find a job but as a US citizen with a PhD in psych, you are chosen way before other foreigners with a similar degree (countries like France, Spain, etc. have a hell of a time transferring there).

Well, my situation isn't the easiest as you can see but I'm trying to face it as best I can because I really do love the Frenchie. Lots more discussions ahead for us regarding these challenges. Please feel free to send more advice or comments (good or bad-I'll take what I can get).

Oh and thanks for the book recommendations. Never read those!

 

[Psyclops]

US: Europe has a cheaper health system, more secure pension plans in his field, and many more paid vacation weeks.

Cheaper health system? That only matters if one doesn't have insurance. Pension plans, well the French will always have that better, it looks like it has gone the way of the dodo here. But without the blue laws they have there he can make more money, and less of it will be taken away for taxes. But he might have to work a whole 40 hours per week as oposed to 35. As for Vacations though, If he works in a healthcare field (everyone needs IT) he'll get his 5 weeks. See if he wants to get away from La Folie Des Vaches. His car won't get burned, and with the Republicans in power it should be remeniscent of La Front Nationalle, or whatever.

 

[perfektspace]

If you end up in Europe be prepared to have most of your paycheck taxed and thrown down the socialist toilet.

Western Europe = Socialist Government (e.g., soft-core communism)
-Your healthcare isn't cheaper because you pay through the nose in taxes.
-You get tons of vacation time but your economy is **** because everyone is always on "holiday".
-Never trust the French

Je dois partir

 

[Psyclops]

I love the French, and I would trust them to tell me how they think it is, I just wouldn't take economic advice from them.

I'm pretty sure the word "frank" in english, meaning to be honest or candid, come from them being so brutally honest by nature.

 

[SaraL124]

My advice is this:
If your boyfriend has agreed now to move with you wherever you go to school, take him up on his offer. When you narrow down your choices at interview time, take him with you to the interviews so he can see the town or city. After the interviews, have him begin his job search in each of those places. That way he will know his options when it comes time for you to make your final decision.

A lot can happen in 6 years, especailly when one partner is in school and the other isn't. He may find that living in the US isn't worth it to him, even if it will be temporary or you may find that you could never imagine yourself living in another country after you graduate. Take it slow and don't make an solid promises. They will just breed resentment if you change your mind later.