Help me get The man off my back!

[osumc2014]

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Don't get me wrong, I love my dad, but lately he has really been on my back about the whole med school process. He has really high expectations and basically thinks that the MCAT and GPA are the only things that matter! So he thinks all the time i spend doing ECs is not important at all and should just constantly focus on studying. I guess what I'm asking is that could someone possibly post something or help me find something that indicates that MCAT and GPA are NOT the only things that matter? And how beyond those 2 things there are a variety of things that are makes us unique compared to other applicants?? It's just frustrating because of all the stress of getting ready to apply I don't want the unnecessary stress of him breathing down my neck all the time. Thanks!

 

[NotAndrew]

Don't get me wrong, I love my dad, but lately he has really been on my back about the whole med school process. He has really high expectations and basically thinks that the MCAT and GPA are the only things that matter! So he thinks all the time i spend doing ECs is not important at all and should just constantly focus on studying. I guess what I'm asking is that could someone possibly post something or help me find something that indicates that MCAT and GPA are NOT the only things that matter? And how beyond those 2 things there are a variety of things that are makes us unique compared to other applicants?? It's just frustrating because of all the stress of getting ready to apply I don't want the unnecessary stress of him breathing down my neck all the time. Thanks!

I think most Mschools have a section on their websites called "selection factors" which will inform him of the fact that he is misinformed.

 

[GoSpursGo]

As you say, the process isn't all about stats. Though GPA and MCAT may be (and probably are) the two largest criteria that admissions offices evaluate applicants based on, the fact is that with so many qualified people applying, those two things alone won't get you in. You've got to have experience in the medical field and other things that make you unique next to the other applicants; if everyone has a high GPA and MCAT, why should they choose YOU over anyone else?

So basically, stats are important to getting into med school, but not sufficient. Finding out how to delicately balance your time between taking care of your stats, finding time to get in clinical/other extracurricular experiences, and yes, have fun (I swear, I was asked about my taekwondo hobby at 3 of my interviews and they seemed to love it--the MS4 that interviewed me at Baylor went so far as to say, "we like students who have interests outside of medicine as well") is a major dilemma for all pre-meds. If you do nothing but study for your classes and MCAT, there will be nothing that makes you interesting to adcoms. If you look at almost any med school's admissions page and look for a page that says something like "criteria for evaluating applicants" or "applicant qualifications," you'll find that they will usually say that they carefully examine all aspects of your application, not just the stats.

BTW, if the stats on your MDApps are true and not just estimates or based on MCAT practice tests, you're golden as far as stats. Spend more time getting those ECs, by all means!

 

[mikecougarmd]

Check out this "self-assessment" from the University of Utah SOM. The part about ECs starts a few pages into the pdf. They list a minimum requirement for all the ECs and give an average for accepted applicants. You really can't get in with just an MCAT and GPA (I tried that and it didn't work =] ).

http://medicine.utah.edu/admissions/criteria/Self_Assessment08-09.pdf

 

[suizyme09]

Your GPA and MCAT are great what are you worried about? Apply early I have similar stats than you (slightly higher MCAT, slightly lower GPA) and I had no problems with UC and OSU b/c I got interviews in October/Nov and did well. You keep doing what you love b/c it will make you an approachable well rounded person with something to talk about in the interviews. I think that some people with really high stats end up being academic robots at times and don't get acceptances because they don't do well in the interview or apply too narrowly too late. I'm sure you'll be fine if you keep doing what you're doing and you'll end up somewhere that makes you happy!😀

 

[Bacchus]

Your MCAT score coupled with your GPA will not be a problem. I just looked at your MDapps and I would just recommend branching out a bit more in terms of schools applied to. As for your dad, he's not correct in this one. Focus on your ECs but don't let your grades falter. A 3.95 and 34 will take you far.

 

[osumc2014]

thanks guys! I am not worried so much about my stats or ECs just that my dad does and won't listen haha

 

[Habeed]

He's right, of course. I've actually had an opportunity to look at the actual "scoring sheets" used at a medical school I interviewed at. The interviewer technically broke the rules in showing me, but I did get to examine carefully how the point system works.

GPA/MCAT are overwhelmingly the most important things. While ECs count for a few points (about 10 points versus a total of 70 for GPA/MCAT, and 10 points for letters of recommendation) you could get the full 10 points by only doing SOME ECs.

Like, if you shadowed a doctor, you might get 6/10 points...having done nothing else at all. That's because about 5 different things overlapped into this 10 point category...so there's absolutely no need to shadow AND be part of student organizations AND get an EMT-B AND go on a mission trip...you'll max out your points long before that.

Sure, this score "just" gets you an interview. But, as I learned, interviews are like playing roulette in Vegas. Each interviewer asks a completely different set of questions. Some will like you from the start, some won't...it's kind of arbitrary, unless you are as charismatic and good looking as a television anchor, of course. If you had done almost no ECs, you're STILL going to be able to fill up a few minutes during the interview talking about any ECs you actually did do. Odds are, assuming you have some bare minimum level of social skills, if you get 10 interviews you are probably going to do awesome on a pair of interviews at at least one of the schools you interview at. And, if you have the grades...you will get offered 10 interviews.

The way to get into medical school for sure : 1. Have the grades and MCAT. 2. Apply Early. 3. Apply broadly, and go to all interviews offered.

Virtually anyone who does this will get in. Oh, and suck up to at least 3 professors over a semester during undergrad, and get the highest grade in their class. Also, pay a professional to edit your personal statement. But, these are minor things that anyone can do : but not anyone ends up with the necessary grades/MCATs

 

[GoSpursGo]

He's right, of course. I've actually had an opportunity to look at the actual "scoring sheets" used at a medical school I interviewed at. The interviewer technically broke the rules in showing me, but I did get to examine carefully how the point system works.

GPA/MCAT are overwhelmingly the most important things. While ECs count for a few points (about 10 points versus a total of 70 for GPA/MCAT, and 10 points for letters of recommendation) you could get the full 10 points by only doing SOME ECs.

Like, if you shadowed a doctor, you might get 6/10 points...having done nothing else at all. That's because about 5 different things overalaped into this 10 point category...so there's absolutely no need to shadow AND be part of student organizations AND get an EMT-B AND go on a mission trip...you'll max out your points long before that.

Please keep in mind, this is highly variable at different schools. I've seen the sheet at another school where they actually GIVE us the evaluation form to hand to the interviewer, and clinical experience and GPA/MCAT are given equal weight after you've gotten an interview (GPA/MCAT were much more important for getting an interview in the first place).

No one's implying that stats aren't the most important thing, but you can't neglect everything else either.

 

[Habeed]

I've seen the sheet at another school where they actually GIVE us the evaluation form to hand to the interviewer, and clinical experience and GPA/MCAT are given equal weight after you've gotten an interview

Actually, this is consistent with my explanation. That's what the interviewer is SUPPOSED to go by...in my experiences, the interviewer tends to do whatever they want. Hence, it's very possible that you could have minimal clinical experience, but still receive a very good evaluation on that interview score sheet. Ultimately, the only thing that you can't make up for is those grades/MCAT.

 

[BlueElmo]

He's right, of course. I've actually had an opportunity to look at the actual "scoring sheets" used at a medical school I interviewed at. The interviewer technically broke the rules in showing me, but I did get to examine carefully how the point system works.

GPA/MCAT are overwhelmingly the most important things. While ECs count for a few points (about 10 points versus a total of 70 for GPA/MCAT, and 10 points for letters of recommendation) you could get the full 10 points by only doing SOME ECs.

Like, if you shadowed a doctor, you might get 6/10 points...having done nothing else at all. That's because about 5 different things overlapped into this 10 point category...so there's absolutely no need to shadow AND be part of student organizations AND get an EMT-B AND go on a mission trip...you'll max out your points long before that.

Sure, this score "just" gets you an interview. But, as I learned, interviews are like playing roulette in Vegas. Each interviewer asks a completely different set of questions. Some will like you from the start, some won't...it's kind of arbitrary, unless you are as charismatic and good looking as a television anchor, of course. If you had done almost no ECs, you're STILL going to be able to fill up a few minutes during the interview talking about any ECs you actually did do. Odds are, assuming you have some bare minimum level of social skills, if you get 10 interviews you are probably going to do awesome on a pair of interviews at at least one of the schools you interview at. And, if you have the grades...you will get offered 10 interviews.

The way to get into medical school for sure : 1. Have the grades and MCAT. 2. Apply Early. 3. Apply broadly, and go to all interviews offered.

Virtually anyone who does this will get in. Oh, and suck up to at least 3 professors over a semester during undergrad, and get the highest grade in their class. Also, pay a professional to edit your personal statement. But, these are minor things that anyone can do : but not anyone ends up with the necessary grades/MCATs

This was just one medical school right? Do all others use this kind of point system? LORs count for only 10 points? Why do people keep telling me how important LORs are then?

 

[GoSpursGo]

This was just one medical school right? Do all others use this kind of point system? LORs count for only 10 points? Why do people keep telling me how important LORs are then?

1) This is just one school. 2) EVERYTHING is important; but nobody should have ever suggested that anything was more important than stats. Unless you single-handedly saved Africa (exaggeration, yes; please don't post about how someone you know got into such-and-such school with low stats, as it's generally not a good idea to plan on being that person), you need the stats to get the school to look at you. Everything else will separate you from everyone else who has good stats. If someone gets 10 points on LORs and you only got 5, then maybe that was the difference between an acceptance and not.

 

[NotAndrew]

This was just one medical school right? Do all others use this kind of point system? LORs count for only 10 points? Why do people keep telling me how important LORs are then?

Yeah, he formed an opinion on how 126 schools evaluate candidates based on one school.

 

[Habeed]

Yeah, he formed an opinion on how 126 schools evaluate candidates based on one school.

So you think that 10 points for letter of Rec versus 70 points for GPA/MCAT is not close to the ratio for every medical school in the country? If your hypothesis were correct, then please explain the following table : http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

I suspect that if GPA/MCAT wasn't by far the most important thing at nearly all of the 126 schools, the data in that table would not appear like it does. If you have a GPA over 3.8, and an MCAT over 33, you have a 90% chance of acceptance to medical school. I suspect that for applicants that apply early and broadly with that GPA/MCAT, the chances are at least 95%...before anything else is considered.

Another way to look at it : you'll have about 50 college professors, and can shadow any doctor in your city who allows it. You only have to impress TWO of those professors and 1 doctor...that's it. And even if you had a 2.0 GPA, you could find a class that you "look smart" in...and many professors and docs you shadow will write the letter of rec without seeing your transcript. So every single applicant can, in principle, get a 9 out of 10 letter of rec sent in...I did, and look how abrasive my personality is.

 

[NotAndrew]

So you think that 10 points for letter of Rec versus 70 points for GPA/MCAT is not close to the ratio for every medical school in the country? If your hypothesis were correct, then please explain the following table : http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

I suspect that if GPA/MCAT wasn't by far the most important thing at nearly all of the 126 schools, the data in that table would not appear like it does. If you have a GPA over 3.8, and an MCAT over 33, you have a 90% chance of acceptance to medical school. I suspect that for applicants that apply early and broadly with that GPA/MCAT, the chances are at least 95%...before anything else is considered.

Another way to look at it : you'll have about 50 college professors, and can shadow any doctor in your city who allows it. You only have to impress TWO of those professors and 1 doctor...that's it. And even if you had a 2.0 GPA, you could find a class that you "look smart" in...and many professors and docs you shadow will write the letter of rec without seeing your transcript. So every single applicant can, in principle, get a 9 out of 10 letter of rec sent in...I did, and look how abrasive my personality is.

This is only a valid response if my post was as follows:

Broda dont worry about you GPA or MCAT score as long as you got bitchin ECizzles and like some whicked good letters of rec you will be silly bizzily and in for years you will be a doctizzle

I chose not to spell or grammer check to better approximate how you must have seen my post.

This is what my post actually said:

Yeah, he formed an opinion on how 126 schools evaluate candidates based on one school.

What my post means:
You used your experience at one school to determine how 125 other schools evaluate people. I pointed out how this is rather silly and not at all true. Your alleged school may not care about letters of recommendation or extracurriculars but this does not mean others think the same way. Furthermore if you read my post you will find that I in no way suggest that GPA and MCAT scores are unimportant.

 

[Habeed]

I'm saying that different schools do differ...but that the vast majority of the time, GPA/MCAT are vastly more important than anything else.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

In my opinion, when it comes down to it, its really just a numbers game. Medical schools are running a business, and the mcat is a powerful predictor of future performance on step one. High step one scores = better residency placement = good reflection on the school = continued attraction of quality applicants. I really do think that unless one places in the top 5% of applicants with respect to gpa and mcat, you are going to have a difficult time getting a spot in an "upper tier" medical school. I know docs connected with various medical schools that have basically told me that all these schools have us jump through these hoops when basically it comes down to gpa and mcat. Is this something to be resentful about? Not at all. When you look at the situation from their eyes--that they are running a business--it makes perfect sense. I will be perfectly content attending my state school if other schools dont come through. At the end of the day, as long as you put in the work, you will become a fine physician that will improve the quality of life of others. Anything else is just frosting on the cake.

 

[chief illiniwek]

In my opinion, when it comes down to it, its really just a numbers game. Medical schools are running a business, and the mcat is a powerful predictor of future performance on step one. High step one scores = better residency placement = good reflection on the school = continued attraction of quality applicants. I really do think that unless one places in the top 5% of applicants with respect to gpa and mcat, you are going to have a difficult time getting a spot in an "upper tier" medical school. I know docs connected with various medical schools that have basically told me that all these schools have us jump through these hoops when basically it comes down to gpa and mcat. Is this something to be resentful about? Not at all. When you look at the situation from their eyes--that they are running a business--it makes perfect sense. I will be perfectly content attending my state school if other schools dont come through. At the end of the day, as long as you put in the work, you will become a fine physician that will improve the quality of life of others. Anything else is just frosting on the cake.

About seven months ago, when I started the application process, my reasoning was about the same as yours. I have a solid GPA from a rigorous undergrad program and a good MCAT score, and I assumed that these things would make up for my below-average ECs and weak LORs. But, with the rejections I have gotten, I have realized something important. I think what you forgot to consider is that a school wants to be 100% sure you are committed to medicine before they offer you a seat. This is something that is not easily proven just from grades/MCAT, which is why ECs and strong LORs are a necessity.

To the OP: your grades and MCAT are outstanding, so just keep going with the shadowing, volunteering, and leadership roles and you should be set for medical school. Also, most of those programs you listed are highly selective - you need to add some back-up schools to that list.

 

[229141]

Don't get me wrong, I love my dad, but lately he has really been on my back about the whole med school process. He has really high expectations and basically thinks that the MCAT and GPA are the only things that matter! So he thinks all the time i spend doing ECs is not important at all and should just constantly focus on studying. I guess what I'm asking is that could someone possibly post something or help me find something that indicates that MCAT and GPA are NOT the only things that matter? And how beyond those 2 things there are a variety of things that are makes us unique compared to other applicants?? It's just frustrating because of all the stress of getting ready to apply I don't want the unnecessary stress of him breathing down my neck all the time. Thanks!

3.95gpa + 34 mcat = get in to at least 1 school even if you have subpar ec's

 

[osumc2014]

To the OP: your grades and MCAT are outstanding, so just keep going with the shadowing, volunteering, and leadership roles and you should be set for medical school. Also, most of those programs you listed are highly selective - you need to add some back-up schools to that list.

Thanks, Which schools would you say are back ups? I am an ohio resident

 

[Bacchus]

Post a new thread in the WAMC subforum and you'll get lots of help.

 

[chief illiniwek]

Thanks, Which schools would you say are back ups? I am an ohio resident

I'm probably not the best person to answer this, but I will give it a shot since I brought it up:

Toledo
Wright State (an absolute must for Ohio residents)
Temple
Drexel
Thomas Jefferson

Hope that helps.

 

[Wants2give]

Don't get me wrong, I love my dad, but lately he has really been on my back about the whole med school process. He has really high expectations and basically thinks that the MCAT and GPA are the only things that matter! So he thinks all the time i spend doing ECs is not important at all and should just constantly focus on studying. I guess what I'm asking is that could someone possibly post something or help me find something that indicates that MCAT and GPA are NOT the only things that matter? And how beyond those 2 things there are a variety of things that are makes us unique compared to other applicants?? It's just frustrating because of all the stress of getting ready to apply I don't want the unnecessary stress of him breathing down my neck all the time. Thanks!

Reading this post made me chuckle.
My dad is the EXACT same way. Question. Is your father already a practicing physician? If so I think there is a blatant generation gap that they dnt/cant quite comprehend. Its tougher for us to get into medschool than it was for them!!

 

[Wants2give]

Btw bacchus, I noticed you changed you signature! Why?!

Oh and Olivia Wilde= Goddess, I sware I would lick the sweat from her toes if she gave me the chance!

 

[BlueElmo]

Reading this post made me chuckle.
My dad is the EXACT same way. Question. Is your father already a practicing physician? If so I think there is a blatant generation gap that they dnt/cant quite comprehend. Its tougher for us to get into medschool than it was for them!!

True that. And it's going to get tougher for our future generations.