help me make a plan?

[FieldDay]

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Say these two words and I will get nauseous... CIVIL ENGINEERING. This industry is in the toilet. I finished my masters from a decent state university in May. I've had 13 job interviews and 2 terrible job offers. Both extremely low pay and dead end jobs. I'm not going to take just any civil engineering job because it doesn't look good when you are job hopping. (my last job was 3 years, which I consider relatively short) It is also easy to become niched or pigeonholed into one particular area in this profession.

Doing the DPT thing is not a new idea for me, I've been thinking about it since about 2011. My ex-girlfriend is a physical therapist and she loves it. I actually learned a lot about the profession from her. Her and I are very similar so I always thought that I would enjoy being a physical therapist as well.

Can you guys help me get out of this toilet bowl of a profession that I got myself into? Looks like I need physical therapy advice as well as LIFE advice too 🙂

Here is my situation:

I live in a small city about 50 miles outside of a big city. I currently sleep in my truck since I could not find a job after my graduation in May. You would not be able to tell if you saw me in the daytime. I have $25k in the bank. My only bills are gasoline, food, cell phone and car insurance. I am about to switch my cell phone to prepaid which is pretty cheap. I'm single with no outside support from anyone. It will be too cold for me to sleep in my truck from October onward, so I need to get my act together soon.

I'm thinking in this order: move to big city at the end of August, find a budget room or apartment, look for minimum wage work, in January I will enroll full-time for DPT pre-reqs at 4-yr college, complete my volunteer hours while doing pre-reqs and working minimum wage job. The pre-reqs will take at least 2 semesters to complete but I might be able to apply for DPT after 1 good semester (which will end in May 2015) But starting a DPT program won't happen until August 2016 at the earliest right?I'd actually prefer to get out of this state alltogether but i'm not sure if I could pull that considering out-of-state tuition. I'm not necessarily in a huge hurry, if I have to spread things out over an extra year it wouldn't make a difference

The big question is, will $25k last me until the DPT program starts? Obviously I will have to find some loans for the DPT program 🙁 I might even need loans for the pre-reqs... And I might find myself driving a taxi in between 🙁

both degrees are in civil engineering
Undergraduate GPA: 3.0
Graduate GPA: 3.9
The good news is that my sole GRE (from 2013) is pretty good Q:163, V:164, W:4.5

 

[Watson27]

Sounds like you are on the right track as far as preparing to apply to DPT programs. Your GRE scores are great. Just ace your pre-reqs and I'm sure you can get accepted to multiple programs.

As far as your "big question," I don't think anyone here can say for sure whether $25k is enough. It all depends on the cost of living in your city. And where you are taking your pre-reqs and if you choose to dip into your savings to pay for your pre-reqs. It sounds as if you are lucky enough to not have any loans from your previous schooling, which is good. My suggestion is to make a very strict budget and stick to it!

It seems crazy that anyone with a master's in civil engineering should be forced to sleep in their truck... I wish you the best!

 

[davidtheusername]

Is there a reason to specifically do the classes at a four-year college? Community colleges are extremely common for pre-reqs and very few programs care and they have the benefit of being much cheaper.

 

[FieldDay]

Thank you for your thoughtful and positive responses.

The only reason I said 4-year college was because the more well known DPT program in my city requires their pre-reqs at a 4-year college. Well at least they require it for anatomy and physiology. But you are right, I should look into whether I could do at least some of the pre-reqs at community colleges. Good point!

 

[scrawnyguy]

What city?

 

[NewTestament]

I'm thinking in this order: move to big city at the end of August, find a budget room or apartment, look for minimum wage work, in January I will enroll full-time for DPT pre-reqs at 4-yr college, complete my volunteer hours while doing pre-reqs and working minimum wage job. The pre-reqs will take at least 2 semesters to complete but I might be able to apply for DPT after 1 good semester (which will end in May 2015) But starting a DPT program won't happen until August 2016 at the earliest right?I'd actually prefer to get out of this state alltogether but i'm not sure if I could pull that considering out-of-state tuition. I'm not necessarily in a huge hurry, if I have to spread things out over an extra year it wouldn't make a difference

Why would you have to wait until August 2016? Why can't you take all your pre-reqs this fall and next spring and start in May/June? Some schools don't start until August/September but not all. You could be in a DPT program as soon as next summer.

 

[jblil]

OP - A few things for you to consider:
- Have you roughed out a budget? I'd think you'd need $600/mo at the very least ($300 for lodging, $100 for food, $100 for utilities+gas+car ins., and $100 for incidentals - this is based on some of my current DPT classmates' experience). You will need to adjust the numbers up/down for your area's cost-of-living, and add tuition expenses, books, etc. Then you can see how far the $25K will take you.
- If your ultimate goal is to get into PT school, why not take one of those Civil Engr dead-end jobs while you fulfill the PT pre-reqs? The pay will certainly be better than minimum-wage, and at least you'll use a little bit of what you learned in grad school. Also, you may have trouble finding work at min wage since you'll be way overqualified.
- The starting pay for PT today is about $65K, so do not get into too much debt for the degree.
- Take all pre-reqs at a community college where possible. In my experience, very few DPT schools require specific pre-reqs from a 4-yr university.
- Good luck. I am an ex-engineer myself (MSME) and also went through pretty rough times in my 20s.

 

[starrsgirl]

If it were me, I too would take a dead end job in any state in civil engineering. Work during the day, and take community college classes at night and on weekends. I personally think this also speaks to your ability to handle high course loads in application time. Use any breaks from school to shadow. If you take 1-2 days off work too somewhere in there, you can get 16 hours of observation in a very short amount of time. I wouldn't waste time getting more hours than required. Hit slightly above the minimum requested by school and be done with it.

I also am surprised to hear about your trouble finding a job. I felt like I struggled to find a job at times because everyone wanted to hire engineers when the economy tanked (to do regular jobs).

 

[FieldDay]

What city?

denver

 

[FieldDay]

Why would you have to wait until August 2016? Why can't you take all your pre-reqs this fall and next spring and start in May/June? Some schools don't start until August/September but not all. You could be in a DPT program as soon as next summer.

I think it may be too late to enroll for Fall. I could look into whether I can get into somewhere last minute.

 

[FieldDay]

OP - A few things for you to consider:
- Have you roughed out a budget? I'd think you'd need $600/mo at the very least ($300 for lodging, $100 for food, $100 for utilities+gas+car ins., and $100 for incidentals - this is based on some of my current DPT classmates' experience). You will need to adjust the numbers up/down for your area's cost-of-living, and add tuition expenses, books, etc. Then you can see how far the $25K will take you.
- If your ultimate goal is to get into PT school, why not take one of those Civil Engr dead-end jobs while you fulfill the PT pre-reqs? The pay will certainly be better than minimum-wage, and at least you'll use a little bit of what you learned in grad school. Also, you may have trouble finding work at min wage since you'll be way overqualified.
- The starting pay for PT today is about $65K, so do not get into too much debt for the degree.
- Take all pre-reqs at a community college where possible. In my experience, very few DPT schools require specific pre-reqs from a 4-yr university.
- Good luck. I am an ex-engineer myself (MSME) and also went through pretty rough times in my 20s.

My only concern is that with working full-time it will take me longer to finish the pre-reqs. I thought it might be better to get a lower paying job with a somewhat flexible schedule and 24-32 hours per week tops. Then I'd have at least some income to make savings last longer. And I'm serious about the taxi cab idea. You get pretty flexible hours, although a pretty low income. Also potentially a PT aide type position

 

[FieldDay]

If it were me, I too would take a dead end job in any state in civil engineering. Work during the day, and take community college classes at night and on weekends. I personally think this also speaks to your ability to handle high course loads in application time. Use any breaks from school to shadow. If you take 1-2 days off work too somewhere in there, you can get 16 hours of observation in a very short amount of time. I wouldn't waste time getting more hours than required. Hit slightly above the minimum requested by school and be done with it.

I also am surprised to hear about your trouble finding a job. I felt like I struggled to find a job at times because everyone wanted to hire engineers when the economy tanked (to do regular jobs).

Thank you for your perspective. Working full-time while doing the pre-reqs is something that I should consider, even though it will drag out the process an extra year or so.

 

[FieldDay]

The reason I can't get a CE job is twofold:

#1 many positions/organizations are not a good personality match. I don't enjoy spending large amounts of time (8-10 hours/day) running computer software/models and I much prefer interacting with people and exchanging ideas.
#2 oversaturated market for CEs, the profession is largely based on growth in land development and infrastructure spending, two things which have been anemic since 2008

So I admit it is partly my own personality preventing me from getting a CE job

 

[DPT_powelift]

What will be your course sequence for fall/spring?
I'm assuming you already have your
physics 1/2
calculus 1
chemistry 1

So you would really only need
Bio 1 & 2
AnP 1 & 2
Chem 2
Psychology 6 credits (general, abnormal or developmental)

You could apply this winter after your fall grades are in and could have 3 outstanding prereqs lefts for spring
And start in fall 2015?

Why 2016?

 

[jquitt]

Say these two words and I will get nauseous... CIVIL ENGINEERING. This industry is in the toilet. I finished my masters from a decent state university in May. I've had 13 job interviews and 2 terrible job offers. Both extremely low pay and dead end jobs. I'm not going to take just any civil engineering job because it doesn't look good when you are job hopping. (my last job was 3 years, which I consider relatively short) It is also easy to become niched or pigeonholed into one particular area in this profession.

Doing the DPT thing is not a new idea for me, I've been thinking about it since about 2011. My ex-girlfriend is a physical therapist and she loves it. I actually learned a lot about the profession from her. Her and I are very similar so I always thought that I would enjoy being a physical therapist as well.

Can you guys help me get out of this toilet bowl of a profession that I got myself into? Looks like I need physical therapy advice as well as LIFE advice too 🙂

Here is my situation:

I live in a small city about 50 miles outside of a big city. I currently sleep in my truck since I could not find a job after my graduation in May. You would not be able to tell if you saw me in the daytime. I have $25k in the bank. My only bills are gasoline, food, cell phone and car insurance. I am about to switch my cell phone to prepaid which is pretty cheap. I'm single with no outside support from anyone. It will be too cold for me to sleep in my truck from October onward, so I need to get my act together soon.

I'm thinking in this order: move to big city at the end of August, find a budget room or apartment, look for minimum wage work, in January I will enroll full-time for DPT pre-reqs at 4-yr college, complete my volunteer hours while doing pre-reqs and working minimum wage job. The pre-reqs will take at least 2 semesters to complete but I might be able to apply for DPT after 1 good semester (which will end in May 2015) But starting a DPT program won't happen until August 2016 at the earliest right?I'd actually prefer to get out of this state alltogether but i'm not sure if I could pull that considering out-of-state tuition. I'm not necessarily in a huge hurry, if I have to spread things out over an extra year it wouldn't make a difference

The big question is, will $25k last me until the DPT program starts? Obviously I will have to find some loans for the DPT program 🙁 I might even need loans for the pre-reqs... And I might find myself driving a taxi in between 🙁

both degrees are in civil engineering
Undergraduate GPA: 3.0
Graduate GPA: 3.9
The good news is that my sole GRE (from 2013) is pretty good Q:163, V:164, W:4.5

Yeah this is tough. I hate that youve found yourself in this situation. Honestly, i would consider finding a place to stay and a source of income first and foremost. As you said, you dont have any outside support and sleeping in your car in the cold is something nobody should have to do. Then you can afford a place and think about prereqs. As far as part time or full time it all depends on you. If you really want to apply this next cycle part time would be your best option but again make sure to prioritize having enough money and a place to stay. You know you best. 25 thousand per year is pushing it I think. If you qualify, you could supplement that income with some loans to help keep the train moving till the fall. Some people may scoff at that but you're going to need loans most likely for DPT anyway.

I hope this all works out for you! You have a good game plan and your stats are great thus far.

 

[FieldDay]

What will be your course sequence for fall/spring?
I'm assuming you already have your
physics 1/2
calculus 1
chemistry 1

So you would really only need
Bio 1 & 2
AnP 1 & 2
Chem 2
Psychology 6 credits (general, abnormal or developmental)

You could apply this winter after your fall grades are in and could have 3 outstanding prereqs lefts for spring
And start in fall 2015?

Why 2016?

You are pretty much right on with the pre-reqs I need. Except I don't need Chem 2 since I took that in undergrad.

So if I am ready to fully commit within the next month I could potentially go along the express timeline that you guys have suggested.

My thinking with January was that by then it would have been 8 months since finishing the MSCE, and if I have no promising CE job offer, it would be easier to convince to myself to make the big decision to change careers.

 

[FieldDay]

Yeah this is tough. I hate that youve found yourself in this situation. Honestly, i would consider finding a place to stay and a source of income first and foremost. As you said, you dont have any outside support and sleeping in your car in the cold is something nobody should have to do. Then you can afford a place and think about prereqs. As far as part time or full time it all depends on you. If you really want to apply this next cycle part time would be your best option but again make sure to prioritize having enough money and a place to stay. You know you best. 25 thousand per year is pushing it I think. If you qualify, you could supplement that income with some loans to help keep the train moving till the fall. Some people may scoff at that but you're going to need loans most likely for DPT anyway.

I hope this all works out for you! You have a good game plan and your stats are great thus far.

Thanks for the good advice. I'm only without a home by choice, obviously I could have found a cheap apartment if I was willing to dip into my savings a little. Similar to a hunger strike you could say, a protest to myself. I'm hoping it gives me the strength and clarity to make some important decisions in my life. 😀

 

[jquitt]

Thanks for the good advice. I'm only without a home by choice, obviously I could have found a cheap apartment if I was willing to dip into my savings a little. Similar to a hunger strike you could say, a protest to myself. I'm hoping it gives me the strength and clarity to make some important decisions in my life. 😀

I totally misread the 25k as $25...lol!

 

[DPT_powelift]

So how are your grades in the pre reqs you have already taken?

 

[FieldDay]

So how are your grades in the pre reqs you have already taken?

You bring up a good point.

My undergraduate GPA was 3.0 solely due to me being an idiot my first two years of undergrad (way back in 2003/2004). And coincidentally the first two years were when I did Physics, Chem, etc. I'd have to calculate the pre-req GPA but i'm willing to bet it is between 2.5-3.0. Obviously this will be a big strike against me. I might have to assume a worst case scenario of 1 extra semester to repeat those pre-reqs. Which sucks because my GPA from all my math and engineering coursework after those two years is pretty high. Thanks for mentioning this

 

[scrawnyguy]

denver

Cool, I live in Denver as well. Do you have a spot in mind for observation hours? The place I'm at now has a great reputation and now that all the college kids are heading back to school they should have plenty of space available. Are you looking at Regis or CU-Denver?

 

[abynormal]

I'm in Denver too, started taking my prereqs online via Colorado State University, except physiology had to get done online via University of New England. Have you looked into tiny home living? If you want to get rid of overhead that would be one way. You might be able to find a job as a rehabilitation aide but I think you need to get a formal certificate and pass a national exam to work as a physical therapy aide. CU, if your instate is only ~$70k for the 3 years and that can be of interest compared to private or out of state . I majored in engineering too!

 

[FieldDay]

Cool, I live in Denver as well. Do you have a spot in mind for observation hours? The place I'm at now has a great reputation and now that all the college kids are heading back to school they should have plenty of space available. Are you looking at Regis or CU-Denver?

I'm actually still pretty early in the planning process, trying to chart out the next year or two. My friend told me there are a lot of well regarded PT places in Denver where I could get some observation hours. Got any suggestions on where I should look for observation hours? As far as schools, I have not gotten that far in the process but CU or Regis would probably be good local options.

 

[FieldDay]

I'm in Denver too, started taking my prereqs online via Colorado State University, except physiology had to get done online via University of New England. Have you looked into tiny home living? If you want to get rid of overhead that would be one way. You might be able to find a job as a rehabilitation aide but I think you need to get a formal certificate and pass a national exam to work as a physical therapy aide. CU, if your instate is only ~$70k for the 3 years and that can be of interest compared to private or out of state . I majored in engineering too!

Tiny home living!? Never heard of it, but it sounds awesome. I know you can find some pretty tiny cabins in the mountains but that might make for a long commute. Pretty cool you are able to do the pre-reqs online! Tiny home + online pre-reqs and you could be pretty self-sufficient for a year or two. Seems like engineering works for some people, and doesn't work for others... Even though I find all the topics to be fascinating, the actual engineering working world has turned out to be a little different

 

[scrawnyguy]

I'm actually still pretty early in the planning process, trying to chart out the next year or two. My friend told me there are a lot of well regarded PT places in Denver where I could get some observation hours. Got any suggestions on where I should look for observation hours? As far as schools, I have not gotten that far in the process but CU or Regis would probably be good local options.

Check out Craig Hospital, especially if you think you might be interested in neuro rehab. They are one of the top ranked rehab hospitals in the country. It's a very tight knit group and all of the staff I have worked with so far are extremely friendly. They are also very tied into the local area and if you want to go a local school you could probably get a recommendation that would carry some weight.

I just moved to Denver a few months ago after more than a decade in the Army. As much as I love the area I'm going to go elsewhere most likely head elsewhere for school (fingers crossed for Army-Baylor). Regis and CU are the only PT schools in the state, but if you want to stay close I would look at the Kansas City area. I think it's only about an 8 hour drive if you want to come back and visit Denver. I grew up there and every time I go home I am amazed at how much work they have done to revitalize the city. Rockhurst has a PT school on the Missouri side. They believe they are Jesuit, like Regis. I imagine their price tag is similar. The University of Kansas is obviously on the Kansas side. The hospital is literally on State Line Road so you are right in the city. A couple of people I went to high school with are in the PT field now so I can probably get you some contacts there as well.

As far as living in Denver on 25K I think it's doable. I don't think many people realize how bad the rental market is here. I was shocked when I moved from northern California (Sacramento) and found that rental prices are higher here. This area is blowing up. I was talking to a girl at a party when I first moved here who works for realtor.com and and said that right now more people in the 24-34 yr age group are moving here than anywhere else in the country. That means high rents and an over-saturated job market. Not a great combination.

 

[FieldDay]

Thanks, that is some pretty good info. I'd hope to get out of the state too eventually. It seems like everyone wants to move here to reinvent themselves. I'm not originally from here but I've been in Fort Collins for 8 years, with a 3 year break to work out-of-state. Now my only choice for an in-state big city (i'm a single guy who needs job opportunities) is Denver and like you said, it seems crazy down there right now. Even FC rental market is real tight right now. Hey, I always get good impressions of Kansas when I'm there. I drove through the Flint Hills outside of Wichita and it is a very beautiful part of the state. Definitely not what most people assume Kansas is like

 

[Watson27]

I'd think you'd need $600/mo at the very least ($300 for lodging, $100 for food, $100 for utilities+gas+car ins., and $100 for incidentals - this is based on some of my current DPT classmates' experience).

jblil, I want to live in your city! $300 for lodging?! Where I live, $300 will get you a rat-infested apartment that you have to share with 5 crackhead roommates. I'd love to have a monthly budget of $600! 😛

 

[zippo]

jblil, I want to live in your city! $300 for lodging?! Where I live, $300 will get you a rat-infested apartment that you have to share with 5 crackhead roommates. I'd love to have a monthly budget of $600! 😛

Where would this expensive crack/rat infested city be?

 

[jblil]

$300 for lodging is do-able, although not very comfortable. A 2-bedroom apartment goes for $900-$1K/mo where I am (NC). Split it 3 ways (or 4 ways) and you end up with approximately $300 each. Of course, it means either sharing a bedroom or sleeping on the living-room couch. Certainly not ideal accommodations, but if that's what it takes to get through school...