Help on Final Decision

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coloradocutter

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First, thanks you guys for all of the advice and support this year with this process and over my past few years on the board. The time is finally here for me to go back to grad school - do or die. I have had a REALLY hard time making a decision on two programs, and I am still struggling. 😕 I think I have made the decision and I want to get people's thoughts. I welcome contrary comments too. If you think I can go the other way, I want to hear it.

My choices are a funded PhD program and an unfunded PsyD program. Without going into tons of details, here are the major sticking points for me. I think that I should do the funded PhD even though I am terribly sad about it.

FUNDED PHD

Cons: Small, southern town and I am moving from large metro area. Nearest large city is 2 hours away. I have to move my family. More limited clinical opportunities. There are only about 4 that are not with student counseling center type populations and they take limited number of students. Coursework in my area of expertise is limited, more of a generalist program. I don't want to seek licensure in this state, so will not be able to network while in the program. Although I love my mentor, I am not thrilled about his research - it's a highly specialized area within my broader area of interest in forensics. Although POI is on board with 4 + 1, it's always a crapshoot with a PhD program. I think I will be BORED OUT OF MY MIND in this town.

Pros: Fully funded with good stipend. I would likely walk away with a good bit of my savings - enough to put a dent in a down payment for home and work on a practice. POI is very senior, has great funding, is on board with me to aim for 4 + 1. We talked openly about my desire to work for myself and focus on building a forensic practice with mix of therapy and consulting as well. He was totally on board and supportive. I really like him. Very low cost of living. Nearer to family than other choice - 2 hours to nearest family.

Unfunded PsyD

Cons: Money. Even with my savings, I have done the math I would owe betwen $65k-90k after graduation. On the lower end, assuming 6.8% interest rate and 10 year repayment, I would have payments of around $700/month and factoring in my husband's income, I would need to gross $55k to have a good debt/income ratio. It is *possible* that my husband could make more money or I could try to moonlight as a lawyer and cover this debt, but it's also very possible that would not happen. (I figured if we made about $20-$35k extra a year, we could break even on the debt but we would have NO margin of error and would not be able to afford travel to see family, etc.) This would put alot of pressure on my husband and I and our marriage. We have a young child and are planning to have another soon. This debt could rule out getting a home for a long while and would put alot of pressure on my starting my own practice. I spoke to students there, 90% of which are not in my financial position to pay the tuition outright and they are borrowing ~200-250k. Some people mentioned grants and fellowships might be available. I saved so much money to get here - this seems a little ridiculous to still be in the hole. Is it worth taking the leap and hoping that we could make the $$ work? Also, farther away from our family.


Pros: Location! I already live here and this is the city where I want to practice. I love it here!!! Excellent clinical placements!!! The settings that are available are absolutely amazing and varied. Great clinical training - far superior to other program. 3 + 1. Great coursework in my area of interest - forensics. I would have opportunity to network while here. Exclusive internship consortium in the city offered to roughly half of cohort. My heart says go to this program and it is breaking my heart not too - but I think the financials just make the barriers to entry to high.
 
Keep in mind that, in terms of getting a job after you practice, CO is a pretty oversaturated market for psychologists. Even if you stayed in the area for grad school, would you be able to stay there afterward? Conversely, if you went to the PhD program, would you be able to return to CO afterward?
 
Funded Ph.D.

While Colorado is a competitive market, people still find jobs and do okay....and you'll have that extra 60-90k to use towards funding a practice (or whatever you want to do). That kind of start-up capital is HUGE for any kind of PP work.
 
Definitely funded Ph.D. No brainer in my mind. Good luck with your final decision! There is no WRONG decision in this situation- just be happy you have a choice. 🙂
 
it sounds as though the mere thought of attending the Phd program makes you miserable, and you havent even enrolled yet!

contrary to what others have said, money is not everything. if a PsyD is what your heart is telling you, you and your family will find a way to make it work.
 
Funded Ph.D. A no-brainer for me as well.

If you went that route, you'd be making some near-term sacrifices that will help you have a better long-term outcome. That's usually the way I prefer to make decisions; you might be different.
 
Despite the fact that I hold funded programs in higher regard that non-funded program, quality of life is very important and you seem more excited about the non-funded program with the exception of the money problem.

You referred to two important facts:

1. At the non-funded program, you may be able to apply for grants and fellowships. If this is available, this could signicantly change the situation. You need more specifics on this.

2. Since you are a lawyer, you could do some side legal work or even work close to full-time for a year after graduating to pay down the loan and then shidt into full-time psychology work.

In a previous post you mentioned a house you owned which you might have to sell but did not mention that here.

I agree with you regarding my last piece of advice that living away from one's wife and child to attend a school would be awful. I was just throwing that out as an idea since I have met people who have done just that.
 
I think in the previous post I shared with you my experience and that it wasn't the end of world of you passed on the funded opportunity. I conveyed this assuming your marriage would be significantly impacted. However.....

If you can acclimate to the environment and if your marriage can survive the experience (no sarcasm), then you really should try for the funded program.

For all of the reasons Jon Snow stated, networking is absolutely possible. You can look for interships and post-doc opportunites in your favorite city. I think it would be actually quite fun to find a way to bridge your POIs niched research focus with what you ultimately want to do. I'm thinking, with the POIs strong reputation, those in the field that you will ultimately collaborate with will be interested in you and your work.

The other issue not mentioned here is that is it stressful to relocate, particularly when you're married and both already professionals. Try not to let that be the deciding variable. Coming out the other end of the graduate school, I predict you will be thankful you chose to move, being unfettered by debt.

Best of luck.
 
Despite the fact that I hold funded programs in higher regard that non-funded program, quality of life is very important and you seem more excited about the non-funded program with the exception of the money problem.

You referred to two important facts:

1. At the non-funded program, you may be able to apply for grants and fellowships. If this is available, this could signicantly change the situation. You need more specifics on this.

2. Since you are a lawyer, you could do some side legal work or even work close to full-time for a year after graduating to pay down the loan and then shidt into full-time psychology work.

In a previous post you mentioned a house you owned which you might have to sell but did not mention that here.

I agree with you regarding my last piece of advice that living away from one's wife and child to attend a school would be awful. I was just throwing that out as an idea since I have met people who have done just that.

On the house issue, I have to sell or rent it either way. If I stay in current location, we cannot afford it. Our house has many unique factors, so I think it will sell, but we will likely take a hit. That hit would be easier to stomach in a funded PhD.

I could do some legal work and I could probably get some funding. However, because I am currently working for a firm, I cannot try to feel out clients' willingness to give me some freelance work and that is problematic. I would prefer though not to have to do that, but yes, it's a possibility. As far as working after graduation, my experience is in big law firms, and once I stepped out, they would not let me back in and I don't want to back in. Believe me, they would figure out what I was doing. I found out that the PsyD will fund a few hours of work a year for select students - at $916 a quarter hour that could mean $5000 and then some clinical placements are funded, so that could be a few extra thousand and then I can apply for some scholarships and grants, but I haven't found out much that is comforting about debt there. Most students are in the hole $100k+.
 
Keep in mind that, in terms of getting a job after you practice, CO is a pretty oversaturated market for psychologists. Even if you stayed in the area for grad school, would you be able to stay there afterward? Conversely, if you went to the PhD program, would you be able to return to CO afterward?

Have you ever lived in Colorado? It's just one of those places - if it gets into your soul, and you gotta make it work. It's like that for me. I will beat the pavement like a crazy person to work and live there. Everyone told me that there were too many lawyers and I was scared to death about making money as a lawyer, and I have been extremely successful financial. I think it's all about how good you are at marketing and business. I am a corporate lawyer and spend most of my time advising businesses, so I think I will find a way.

I think with the PsyD, I could definitely get an internship because of the exclusive consortium. Staying here with PsyD debt would be tougher because CO has a high cost of living and the glut you mentioned - it would take longer to be profitable there.

With the PhD, no, there are no guarantees that I could get an internship in CO, but I can just do my best to make sure I am working towards meeting the internship criteria for sites here and make it work. I could also try to come back for CPA meetings and stay hooked into the community here as best I can.
 
Funded PhD and deferred PsyD for next year just in case...
 
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