Help please

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It looks like that time where i need to start thinking about the next app cycle. Technically this would be my 3rd application, im hoping i can get some input on my plan.

1st app cycle

3.7+ gpa 31N applied extremely late and only finished 2 applications (in feb)both rejected post secondary (i dont really consider this a true app attempt)


2nd app cycle

applied to 38, completed 30 secondaries, 5 interviews, 2 rejections, 1 WL, 1 prob wl/rej, 1 waiting for news

stats:
3.81 science 3.80 total
31N: 10PS 10BS 11V

Currently working full-time at a medical center, as a research associate (clinical research)
3.5yr clerk/research assistant at the medical center
(gained alot of experience in academic medicine through working with my employer; article submission/publication - but no authorship, abstract/poster projects - but no authorship, journal review, national committee work, lecture presentations, IRB, grant writing, clinical rounds 2000+ hrs) - i jsut mention experience as i have not done these as sole investiagor/teacher
hospital volunteer x2
student organizations: typical health related ones
international medical mission


So now im debating what I should do this next year. I either was thinking of applying to a 1 year masters program (biochem) which i will enroll during next app season or I can stay at my current job and try to improve my application that way.

- if i do masters i can improve gpa and show the adcom im committed to graduate learning
- if i stay at my job im going to try to publish and apply for some grants. also want to present my research at a conference or something.

for sure i am going to retake the mcat, im planning on June. Should i wait to submit my app till after? I got alot of secondaries so Im thinking about sending it in early june and taking mcat after.


im leaning towards staying at the job and retaking the mcat. a med student advised i get heavy into research, as it will make me stand out more. still not sure what to do....

your thoughts?

thanks

 

[sarahl86]

I think you are already "heavy into research" with over 2000 hours...I mean, really: geez.

Your GPA is great with a decent MCAT but since you seem to be deadset on taking the MCAT again, I don't need to tell you that you have to make a substantial improvement. There has to be something else missing: I don't know how much clinical experience you have so I would think you need to get heavily involved in that considering the tons of research experience you already have. You need to prove you have patient skills, and I suspect that is a big flaw in your application.

Here's what I think your most likely problems are given your disappointing results this cycle:
- Problems with personal statement
- LORs?
- Interview skills

You've had 2 rejections post-interview and don't feel good about another one, so I think that's hurting you more. I don't think you need to shell out money for a master's program. Work on your PS and get strong LORs.

I wish I could help more, but I'm in similar shoes to yours...just my $.02

 

[stayclassy]

Sounds like a bad LOR or bad interview skills. Do some mock interviews with your pre-health office, see what feedback they can give you. I would also call schools that rejected you and find out what you can from them.

 

[bellakk]

You need to call all those schools to find out why you were rejected. Definately call/email all 5 of the schools at which you interviewed, for the one where you were waitlisted, find out how far down on the list you are. I think it would be even more beneficial to call some of the schools where you did not get an interview and find out why.

Applying to 30 schools and only getting 5 interviews with your stats means that there was something weak in either your LORs, statement, or in the way you typed up your ECs in your application.

I think you should submit your app and seconaries super early in the cycle before you mcat score comes out in july. Once you get your score you can contact each school (or do it through amcas/aacomas, im not quite sure?)to update.

I think either choice of a masters or staying would be good as long as you do something big and different regardless of your choice. If you stay, you need to get published and present at a conference! I'd lean towards the masters though b/c I think graduate level coursework really helps you stand out, plus then you could get teaching experience which always looks good.

 

[wapwap]

more info: rejected at MSU CHM, NYMC, wl at Drexel, wl/rej at UIC, waiting for SLU.

im from cali and noticed most of these schools are "considered" backup schools but i applied to schools around my stats aside from all the CA schools.


thanks for the input guys i think you all are correct...

- LORs i think my LORs are pretty good

1 language prof - really nice prof, loved his students dont think it would have been bad
1 prof of medicine/my boss - 3pg lor, i read it
1 TA in a chem lab - i read the letter, simple, sweet, typical
1 prof of psychobiology - didnt really know the prof, A's in 2 of his classes, not sure what he wrote

planning to get another LOR from my anatomy prof at local CC

- personal statement

i definitely need to revise my statement, i put some info in how my parents want me to go in medicine initially... im asian, i realize now how much medschs dont like that combo. My PS mostly focused on my experience with my boss and how that shaped me to gain interest in medicine. Need to edit that part next time

- interview skills

also possible i notice my interview skills improved as i progressed through the interviews. I m pretty sure i know hwy i got rej at 2 of the schools. I will contact these schools for input, NYMC explicitly told me to not talk to them for feedback, i need to contact my "adviser". I need to find a place to let me work on my interview skills. my school does not have a pre-med committee, and the career center is only available to currently enrolled students.

-ECs

kind of weak (ie not many.. 8) my experiences are substantial but not numerous. Im hoping publications/research will fill up more of the app

-MCAT
my mcat is 2 yrs old now, i do feel i can get in the 33 range, need to kick butt on them. will apply before i get my score.


again appreciate all the comments. im leaning towards not doing the MS program and strengthening my app.

keep the input coming!

 

[gman33]

Lots of good advice above.
Let me comment on the LORs.

1 language prof - really nice prof, loved his students dont think it would have been bad
1 prof of medicine/my boss - 3pg lor, i read it
1 TA in a chem lab - i read the letter, simple, sweet, typical
1 prof of psychobiology - didnt really know the prof, A's in 2 of his classes, not sure what he wrote

An LOR from a TA is worthless. Get rid of it.
My guess is some of the other letters are either bad or lukewarm (which is just as bad). Figure out what's in these letters. If you have a premed advisor ask him/her for some feedback. If you can't get it, just assume they are bad are go about getting outstanding ones. Make sure you ask the letter writers if they can right you a STRONG lor. If not, move on.

Also, get feedback from the schools and make sure you are applying to the right ones. Some people apply to 30+ schools, but they are the wrong ones. If you apply to 20 reach schools and 10 safety schools (where everyone applies), you don't always have a good shot. For instance, you applied to Drexel. Not saying that is bad, but they get 10,000+ apps every year. With good stats if you applied enough times you might get in, but your chances are not that high in any given year just based on the numbers.

Another thing to think about is your interview. 5 interviews and no acceptances might mean you are weak in this area. Do some mock interviews and there are a few good books on the subject.

Any thoughts of DO schools? I'd go that route before I started taking SMPs etc.

 

[sarahl86]

- personal statement

i definitely need to revise my statement, i put some info in how my parents want me to go in medicine initially... im asian, i realize now how much medschs dont like that combo. My PS mostly focused on my experience with my boss and how that shaped me to gain interest in medicine. Need to edit that part next time

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Not to sound harsh, but that in and of itself, no matter how well you spin it, would make for a terrible personal statement. Its your personal statement, not your parents because they shouldn't dictate what you want with what you want in your life: if you even hinted at something remotely similar to this, that is exactly what adcoms are going to assume. Every parent wants to have their kid be something great (lawyers, doctors, whatever): don't spell it out in your personal statement.

I don't know how people usually tie in research to their personal statement but you need to have something more personal and actually medically-based to prove you want to be a doctor. If you spent the bulk of your statement discussing research people may interpret it as you love to do just that: research. You could do that in a Ph.D. program.

- interview skills

also possible i notice my interview skills improved as i progressed through the interviews. I m pretty sure i know hwy i got rej at 2 of the schools. I will contact these schools for input, NYMC explicitly told me to not talk to them for feedback, i need to contact my "adviser". I need to find a place to let me work on my interview skills. my school does not have a pre-med committee, and the career center is only available to currently enrolled students.

Yeah, me too. But I think its more a matter of being an environment where you meet and talk to different people all the time. Like a hospital! Hey, there is a point to volunteering besides padding the application! It would be nice to have feedback once in a while though. I kinda sucked at my interviews too.

Bottom line: get more clinical experience. Don't worry about quantity of experiences either, its quality that matters. I think its a matter of your personal statement, okay LORs, and weak interview skills. All of which you have a certain degree of control over.

-- Also, did you take prereqs at a community college? You are asking for a LOR from your anatomy professor at a CC...just wondering. I don't think thats looked at too favorably by admissions committees.

 

[wapwap]

yea i really wish i knew what i know now in the last app cycle.

I am going to start fresh on PS, i focus mostly on my experience at the med ctr because my boss is mostly a clinician, 36 weeks on call and the rest of the time we are doing clinical research.

As far as school selection i thought i was pretty varied (mostly 30mcat/3.6gpa). My reach schools were most the california schools, U chicago, Tufts, Brown, Maryland. The reason i chose the big schools like Drexel is because how friendly they are to OOS. (i did make the mistake of applying to the SUNY schools)

I did not apply to DO schools because of my desire to practice academic medicine. I will apply to DO this next round as well as a few carribean.

Will follow advice on the interview book. i work in a hospital setting, and volunteer at another hospital, maybe i will just talk to every res/fellow/attending i see lol.

Anyone with experience asking for feedback from rejected schools? do they like a formal letter? or would they rather communicate through email?

LORs were a last minute thing. I will prob dump the TA and the psych prof. I did my pre-reqs at my university. Im just taking courses at the local CC to keep me updated (anatomy was to prep me for my first year of med school... in 2010 i guess) the teacher is also faculty researcher at my university as well.

thanks again

 

[Caprica6]

I'd think twice about applying to DO/carb schools if your really want to go into academic medicine. I'm assuming that you would like to stay involved in research while attending medical school. Applying broadly is a good idea, but don't apply somewhere you know you really don't want to go to.

I'm applying this cycle too, and am also involved in research. I'm having a hard time picking a list of schools because I want to go to a research university and those are all, like, Top 40 schools.

 

[LadyJane]

(gained alot of experience in academic medicine...

I hope you had none of those in your PS!! Where were you raised; China or America? It looks like you need help with your communication and writing/grammar skills.

Also, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR PARENTS WANTING YOU TO BE A DOCTOR in your PS!!! You need to find your own reason, your own passion for medicine and spill your guts in your PS. Sure, talk about your ECs and clinical experience, but also tell adcoms WHY you want this. WHY do you want to put yourself through the hell of medical school to be a doctor? WHY are you committed to bettering peoples' lives? WHY do YOU want this?

I bet 20 of those 30 schools read the sentence about your parents and put your whole file directly into the shredder before they even finished the paragraph!

About your ECs, more is not necessarilly better. If you have 30 ECs on your app but only partook in each for a month, well then that doesn't really mean anything except that you can't commit. On the other hand, if you have 5 ECs in which you partook for 4 years each, well that shows a lot more positive characteristics about you than a meaningless laundry list of short-term, superficial ECs.

About your LORs. You need more science profs from your university and not your community college. You should get at least one from a doctor, one from a PhD with whom you've done research. And don't let the adcoms know that you've read them. It looks much better to waive your right to read them. Think about it, if your writers know you're going to read it, then it might not be a completely honest and accurate letter.

Ask your professors if they can give you a mock interview or if they know any doctors who can give you a mock interview.

I don't think your grades or MCAT score really need improvement. Your GPA is impressive and your MCAT is good by many schools' standards. Ok, so you are smart, now show these adcoms that you're a person too.

Hope this helps.

 

[sarahl86]

Even people from Maryland with stats like yours aren't getting in this year, myself included. I wouldn't waste the money a second time around with them if you didn't even get an interview this year - even I won't next year. Also, you're not in very good shape for California schools: they are notoriously competitive, and even IS people there scrape by with 34+ but that is your decision. You're going to have to apply very, very broadly and consider OOS-friendly schools in the Midwest as well as the obvious private schools. Schools like Drexel are a good fit for people with stats like yours and mine (31, high GPAs)...your goals are a little different considering your research background but I am applying DO. I would not consider Carrib. schools just for their reputation in the academic world (no offense to graduates).

And your experiences with your boss? You have to focus on how the experiences affected you and your decision to pursue a medical degree. I worry that you may make your research a bulk of your PS because its what you have spent the most time doing: don't feel like you have to talk about research the most. I believe that although important, research is ancillary to the primary reason people want to be a doctor: to directly administer patient care. Prove that you have the different skills needed by providing anecdotal evidence through your experiences - I'm sure research isn't the only way you've done that.

 

[wapwap]

I hope you had none of those in your PS!! Where were you raised; China or America? It looks like you need help with your communication and writing/grammar skills.

calm down tiger, i communicate differently on the internet.

LORS were PhD and MD. I waived my rights but they still wanted to share, as far as the adcoms are concerned everything was done appropriately. I chose to ask my cc prof because i was not exactly chumy with my profs at the univ. I would just get another bland letter.

I realized my mistake on the PS, i am going to revise. I did write about my personal motivating factors for medicine, will focus on them this next time around. i didnt explain fully but my "research exp" wasnt all research, i saw some amazing medical cases which sparked the interest, my boss has become more of a mentor/friend/role model guiding my efforts in medicine

Reason for retaking the mcat is in hope of getting 33+ so I would be a bit more appealing to cali schools.

thanks sarah, appreciate all the comments, wish i could comment on your situation but as you can tell im in no condition to advise. Best of luck with this next app cycle, im sure you will get in. i would apply this year early.. im sure you will get more interviews. (btw i completed the majority of my apps in sep-oct as well)

 

[LadyJane]

calm down tiger

pff, well I take my advice back then! 😎

 

[dragonfly99]

It sounds like your personal statement hurt you a lot. Rewrite it to focus on your experiences with patients, since you may be getting stereotyped as a science person with no people skills or interest in patients. I'm not saying you are, but I'm just guessing what happened.

Get rid of the TA letter...that won't be very helpful. Your boss's LOR will be good. Try to get two more, with at least one from an MD if your boss is not an MD. Anatomy prof. is OK, but would be better if he has a university appointment. Try to get more hospital volunteer hours...it can't hurt.

Retaking the MCAT is all right, but by itself it's not going to get you in.

Apply really early this year.