help please

[pathrules]

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OK, I've been lurking for a while and I love reading this site, but I now have a question to post. First, let me say that I'm not asking for a moral debate on this one, I just would like some answers from those of you that know what you're talking about.

My situation is this: I'm a 4th year student applying to pathology, but I have some serious concerns about it because I am very pro-life due to my religious beliefs (Catholic). At my institution, the pathology residents gross and then sign out products of conception from elective abortions. I have no problem with doing autopsies of fetuses who died from anomalies, but I feel that grossing and signing out POC's from elective abortions would make me feel part of the abortion process that I so strongly oppose, as the pathology is really the final step in the whole process. I really could not do this and be true to my conscience.

So, my question is this: Are there any good university programs where abortions are not done, or where residents do not do this? I know Loyola in Chicago is a Catholic hospital, so I've applied there, but it seems like all other Catholic hospitals are community programs and I want the best training I can get. Also, has anyone ever heard of a resident opting out of this for personal reasons? It seems to me that this would create an awkward situation.

Sorry to write so much, but any advice or information would be GREATLY appreciated, as I am pretty stressed about this one. Thank you!

 

[rirriri]

hmm...that's pretty interesting.

Here is my perspective on the issue...and take notice that this is only MY opinion.

I respect your views on abortion. However IF the abortion has already been done and the foetus is deceased....how would you consider yourself part of the process?

For example......none of us support *murder* (i hope no one does! haha).....however Pathologists (especially in forensics) have to investigate bodies that have been murdered.....they aren't "supporting" the murder of these people, BUT as a responsibility it is part of the job.

I don't think you would be "supporting" abortions if you were to do the sign out on an aborted foetus....i think you would just be doing your job.

cheers

 

[pathrules]

Thanks very much for responding so soon ririri! Do you ever get off of these boards?🙂

However, I kind of hoped this wouldn't turn into a debate about whether my beliefs are right/wrong/not consistent/etc. I am just asking this: ASSUMING i believe this way and will never change in my entire life, what programs will allow me to become the best pathologist I can be and stay true to my beliefs.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

 

[pathstudent]

I would just be up front about this in the interview process. That way there won't be any uncomfortable situations for you next year and you will know if the program will work with your beliefs.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

You can likely find a program like mine where there are no elective abortions performed. There are some medically necessary, POC from incomplete abortions and tubal pregnancies and such. You would be expected to perform the surgical path on those.

 

[Doctor B.]

I'm sure some programs will accomadate your wishes. There are lots of programs with PAs who could do those specimens for you. I would say don't refrain from applying to some programs that sound good based on the abortion issue alone. Apply and interview at lots of places and ask them about your concerns.

 

[pathrules]

Thanks everyone, especially GP! Now I can add MCV to my short list. And I have applied to other programs and plan on interviewing at them, I just wanted to hear the names of some other programs where elective abortions are not performed so I could put those at the top of my list. Any more programs like this that you all know of?

 

[pathboy]

I understand your position, and it really should be problem finding an institution who would accomodate you. I know of several university hospitals that don't perform elective abortions, so that is another route. If you want to do pathology, do it!

 

[Idiopathic]

I think what PathRules care about, more than path'-ing aborted fetuses, is collecting a paycheck from a hospital that performs abortions (or working there, etc). I would make a point to ask, up-front, programs that you are considering. Or rather, ask programs that you are NOT considering, to see if there is a way to find this out without being offensive.

 

[pathrules]

Thanks everyone for their advice. Keep it coming. 🙂

Hey Pathboy - can you post the names of those hospitals you were talking about? I would love to be able to add them to my ERAS list. Thank you!

 

[pbp4]

my 2 cents- do not eliminate programs based on this and I would not mention it when interviewing- Once at a program you have every right to refuse to do things that you are morally opposed- certainly the medical education makes exceptions for all sorts of issues- yours would be a very small exception- they can deal with this once you are a resident at there program. At my home school there are peds attendings and residents who do not prescibe birth control to teens under there care for moral reasons- and that is their right.

 

[pathrules]

thanks to those who replied. i don't want this thread to die out yet as i know there has to be someone out there who has some more useful information. can anyone confirm or deny that the cleveland clinic does not require its residents to deal with POCs?

can anyone help me out? pathboy, could you please let me know the names of those programs you alluded to? thank you!

good luck to everyone with their interviews!

 

[yaah]

I know, from my own perspective, that I would have no problem whatsoever with helping another resident out in these kinds of situations. If someone said, "I can't gross in that colon because I don't like the smell" I may object, but if someone asks me to take care of a POC for them since they had an objection I don't think I would mind. It is important for residents to act as a team and to help each other out when they can, unfortunately I think sometimes this gets lost in this day and age. Sometimes those who do favors for others get taken advantage of, but I think if you make it a habit to work together, and perhaps repay the favor you will have no problem finding a program that can accomodate you.

 

[pathrules]

thanks yaah. that makes me feel better knowing there are going to be co-residents out there like you to help me out in this situation. any other thoughts anyone? if anyone knows about the cleveland clinic could you let me know please? thanks!

 

[DermpathDO]

one person advised you to state upfront about your objections to grossing abortuses. As a pathologist, who has experienced other types of discrimination in the interviewing process...I stronlgy advise that you do NOT state that upfront. To do so in the interview process may prejudice your application when it comes to choosing residents. The best thing would be to search out those programs that don't do elective abortions. If you nterview at a program that does, but you still want to go there. You can broach the subject once the program starts, when there is less of a chance of not getting into the program🙁