Help, somebody, anybody?

[A18489]

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So, I applied this last application cycle to 31 MD schools and 10 DO schools but, I haven't received any interviews. Here's a little bit about me: 3.32 gpa, 3.6 sGPA, 27 MCAT, retook it and got a 30, a little bit over 1 year working as an EMT, over 4 years volunteering in my local trauma center's ED, in a few weeks I'm starting to volunteer with the YMCA doing science experiments with kids. My LOR from a doctor fell through on me and that immediately disqualified me from the DO schools I applied to, but I still had the required 3 LOR for other schools. I applied to schools all across the spectrum and the only high ranking ones I applied to were California schools, as this is my home state.

I'm thinking I need to get another LOR from a doctor and reapply next year. Could this be enough to make me a competitive applicant for US MD schools? As of now I'm planning on applying to more schools, but I'm wondering if my focus should be more on US MD schools, DO schools, or looking towards the Caribbean.

 

[DrMidlife]

Your numbers are below "good enough" for MD, generally, and way below "good enough" for California. Pretty good for DO. Don't even think about Carib.

When was your app complete? If the answer is "after August" then that's death for MD.

Not getting any DO love is suspicious for a bigger problem. There are DO schools that will let the DO letter slide. I did a big fat writeup on how to figure out what went wrong, a few years ago - it's in the stickies for this forum.

In your shoes I'd decide if I want to do more academics, or if I want to focus on DO.

If you want to do more academics, then you can continue to aim for MD. A whole lot of Californians in your shoes are looking at SMPs. See the postbac forum under interdisciplinary for more info. Letters from doctors are largely meaningless on the MD side. The problem with banking on the lower-stats private schools outside California (the Drexels, RFUs, NYMCs, etc) is that the other bazillion Californians with lower stats are also applying to those schools, so they're not really lower-stats schools, they're massive-pile-of-apps-in-which-your-app-gets-lost schools. Improving your numbers is what to do with that problem.

If you want to focus on DO, then your #1 priority for the next 5 months is getting a strong DO letter. Put more eggs in that basket.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GrapesofRath]

With that MCAT history and your DO application results Im not sure I'd really recommend an SMP.

SMPs work well when your MCAT is a strength. You after 2 attempts are at 30 and for the many who average multiple MCATs in their evaluation you are at a 28-29. Yes there are SMPs that would take you with this MCAT showing like Rosalind, EVMS, Toledo etc but the problem is there "unofficial linkage" has gone way down in recent years. It's a pretty big gamble to consider.

But all of that is kind of a secondary issue. If you arent getting a single DO II there is something off. These stats are clearly sufficient for every DO school in the US. There are far far worse applications on paper than yours that generate significant DO interest every year.

I dont think the lack of DO letter is what's tanking you to this degree. When you applied is relevant here but there is something off if you applied on time and not a single DO school is interested. If you cant get DO schools interested in you, why would MDs ever be?

So from here on out I'd do a thorough evaluation of your application. Go through everything. Think about the message you are sending to medical schools in your application and how you are selling yourself. What's your selling point that would make evaluators want to vouch for you; is it cohesive, does it make sense, does it tie into "why medicine" effectively. Consider your LORs; it's not enough to say "Oh I dont think my LORs said bad things about me". Very very few do; there's a big difference between LORs that actually make a difference and ones that simply dont hurt you. It sounds like at best you are in the latter group there.

Something fundamental is probably off here with the lack of DO interest. Come up with ideas about what that is before doing anything else.

 

[DrMidlife]

Agreed that the MCAT story is weak for MD. Never a good thing to need 3 tries to get above average. But in the possible SMP story here, a 2014 score is going to expire anyway, and there's a 2-3 year gap between apps. I might be willing to II that if the rest of the app is compelling.

But more to the point, I don't see a UC acceptance after an SMP in this story. At best LL on the west coast or that new northstate thingy. Realistically an SMP story would have a RFU/EVMS/NYMC/Toledo ending, that hopefully includes establishing instate domicile, otherwise it's the most expensive possible way to get through med school.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I would agree but there is something really off with the non academic parts of the application if someone with a 3.5ish/30 cant get a single DO II. That would be my primary focus. Why would an MD school be interested in an applicant when not a single DO school is.

Getting into a UC isnt realistic. Even with a top GPA, with that MCAT track record it would be unlikely. As for the other options, Im sure a Rosalind or Toledo or EVMS will probably take the OP into their SMP if they apply to enough places. The problem is the number of SMP grads these places are taking into their host MD programs is falling fast. Toledo went from 44/52 their grads getting into Toledo med to 10/52 last year. These programs main selling point is alot of their grads get into that host program; these arent programs like G'town or Cincy with well established reputations of getting people into many other MD programs that arent themselves. It's just a massive risk to go across the country to a Toledo or EVMS SMP given all the changes those programs are going through. This is especially when you consider the fact the rest of the OP's non academic app probably is far from perfect given the issues they are having with even getting a single DO II.

I just dont think MDs and SMP is what I would prioritize in this route; I would focus more on addressing the issues in my DO app. It just seems more pressing.

 

[DrMidlife]

I don't see it as either/or. It's both.

1. Identify unknown app problems. Fix them. (Hint: find unfriendly old faculty to say blunt things. Consider paying a consultant if all else fails.)
2. Fix known app problems. For DO it's a missing letter. For MD it's low stats. Late app is also a possibility.

 

[A18489]

I've received secondarys to all of the DO schools, but they all said my application was incomplete since I was lacking a doctor letter. I applied at the very beginning of the application cycle, within a couple days of it opening and tried to get all of my secondarys in within a week of receiving them, so I don't think timeliness was the issue. I'm definitely planning on reworking my whole application. Thanks for your input, and @DrMidlife your earlier post is very helpful, I wish I saw it earlier.

 

[GrapesofRath]

If it really is as simple as just getting the DO letter, then get the DO letter. If it's that simple then yeah what DrMidLife is saying is fair, I had kind of assumed that considering how many DO schools dont really seem to have a big issue with a lack of a DO letter, there might be other issues at play.

But with regards to the SMP you still have alot to consider. Do you think you have what it takes to be able to consistently beat out the MS1 class averages in their classes, are you willing to take the type of risk an SMP is, are you willling to relocate, are you willing to drop 50+k on a program that wont get many of its matriculants into US MD schools. These are all questions you have to go through and ask yourself. The answers wont come over night.

 

[Goro]

I think OP is missing a LOR from either MD or DO, which true, is lethal for DO schools.

Solution to OPs woes? More shadowing, and get MD or DO LOR.

I can't recommend any MD school for OP.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

OP, if you only read from the bottom up, here's the TL😀R.

- More robust direct clinical shadowing that leads to strong LOR, preferably DO with your stats.
- Grade repair/improvement. If you have the time/money, the SMP would be good. This includes MCAT (aim for May 2017 date)
- Avoid all state programs, except CA. and apply early

 

[DrMidlife]

"avoid all state programs" is the opposite of good advice. if applying MD, the HOME state publics are the highest priority programs for ANY applicant not in the top 5% of all applicants. (top 5% applicants should be pursuing a free ride and other benes wherever they like.) saving $100k+ tuition is just one of the reasons to try crazy hard to stay instate.

applying to publics OUTSIDE the home state occasionally makes sense, usually with very high stats, at midwest MD schools, new schools, and/or URM.

Californians with low GPAs who insist on MD over DO usually fail to invest enough time in redemption to earn a spot at a UC, and also fail to invest the time required to establish domicile in a more premed-friendly state. But in general, yes, undamaged Californians SHOULD BE TARGETING UCs and not just give up out of fear of the competition. Spending a couple extra years as a premed to prioritize getting into a UC is appropriate in many situations including debt sanity, social support, and not having to break back in to the west coast for residency.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

"avoid all state programs" is the opposite of good advice. if applying MD, the HOME state publics are the highest priority programs for ANY applicant not in the top 5% of all applicants. (top 5% applicants should be pursuing a free ride and other benes wherever they like.) saving $100k+ tuition is just one of the reasons to try crazy hard to stay instate.

applying to publics OUTSIDE the home state occasionally makes sense, usually with very high stats, at midwest MD schools, new schools, and/or URM.

Sorry, I made a typo. I meant to say avoid all state schools except CA. Fixed.

 

[Goro]

Yup, my school gets tons of students, and apps each year, from CA kids who wasted a year trying to get into CA MD schools.

"avoid all state programs" is the opposite of good advice. if applying MD, the HOME state publics are the highest priority programs for ANY applicant not in the top 5% of all applicants. (top 5% applicants should be pursuing a free ride and other benes wherever they like.) saving $100k+ tuition is just one of the reasons to try crazy hard to stay instate.

applying to publics OUTSIDE the home state occasionally makes sense, usually with very high stats, at midwest MD schools, new schools, and/or URM.

Californians with low GPAs who insist on MD over DO usually fail to invest enough time in redemption to earn a spot at a UC, and also fail to invest the time required to establish domicile in a more premed-friendly state. But in general, yes, undamaged Californians SHOULD BE TARGETING UCs and not just give up out of fear of the competition. Spending a couple extra years as a premed to prioritize getting into a UC is appropriate in many situations including debt sanity, social support, and not having to break back in to the west coast for residency.

 

[OverlyRomantic]

I think if you have a letter from a physician, you can get in easily. Get that letter and apply first thing next cycle. Unless you want to really raise your chances of getting into an MD school, don't do an SMP. Just keep in mind that very few DO schools require a DO letter. An MD letter will work just as well (if you can back up your understanding and passion for OMM in the interview).