Help understanding basics about pre-med and what it takes.

[Member09282013]

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I need help understanding the basics about pre-med and what it takes.

Here are my first few questions.

I am 28, and only have 19 credits while doing my associate degree. I have never done the SAT or ACT, is it worth it to do the SAT, or should I take the ACT?

Also could AP classes help me even now, to transfer into a good pre-med college?

 

[theseeker4]

I need help understanding the basics about pre-med and what it takes.

I am 28 years old and have 19 college credits but a 2.2 GPA and my high school transcript GPA was 1.0.

I haven't been to college since 2007, now I am going back, and I am going to attend a community college that does not have Bachelors in Biology.

My parents are supporting me while I go to college, so I will have more time to study hard to try to get the highest GPA and possibly get honors classes.

I was also thinking about preparing for the SAT exam, as I have not done the SAT or ACT, and I dropped out of high school in the 10th grade, but I have a GED high school diploma. I was thinking that possibly passing the SAT with a very high score, with honors classes credits in addition to other credits would help me to have the credentials necessary to transfer into a good pre-med university.

I live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I am going to attend Broward College, though it is not a pre-med school, it has the credit courses I need to complete an Associate degree, or get the necessary minimum credits to transfer to a good pre-med university, in addition to possibly scoring high on the SAT exam.

My question is, is it worth it to do the SAT, or should I take the ACT? When I applied at Nova Southeastern University, they told me that the SAT/ACT score requirement is waived because I have been out of high school for over two years.

You likely won't need to take the SAT or ACT, as indicated by the university you contacted, so check with a couple other universities you plan to apply to and make sure this is true for all of them.

You don't really need to worry about going to a "good pre-med university" as much as you need to worry about getting good grades. Having excellent grades and a good MCAT score will mean infinitely more than the name of the school you go to. Going to a better school might give you a bit of an edge, but if there are pointless hoops a particular school wants you to jump through, like taking the SAT even though you complete two years at a community college, it is probably better to just go to a university that doesn't have those hoops.

Your biggest challenge is going to be getting your GPA up. This is not at all undoable, considering you have just 19 credits so far (your high school GPA doesn't matter at all) but it does mean you have a little less room for error than someone just starting college without any poor grades on their record. Try to get as close to a 4.0 as you can, especially in science courses.

Once you get into the swing of acing college classes, you can look into the required ECs. Don't worry about them yet, as you will have plenty of time to get them in, and it is better to get the hang of getting As in college before you try to add anything on that could impact your GPA. Good luck, welcome to SDN, and let us know if you have any other questions!

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Congratulations on the fresh start! It's never too late to go back to college and begin again.

A good first step would be to look at the colleges you want to go to and see what their admissions requirements are. If you need to take the SAT to get accepted there, take it. If not, don't bother. In the meantime, going to community college will be an excellent way to get reacquainted with student life and studying. You don't need to major in biology to get accepted to med school. All majors have roughly equal acceptance rates, so pick a major that you find interesting and you can get good grades in. You do need to get a bachelor's degree from a 4-year college, so at some point you will probably need to transfer from your community college. Don't bother with an expensive, prestigious college, though. Med schools really don't care much about that, so your local state university will work just fine.

 

[Member09282013]

You likely won't need to take the SAT or ACT, as indicated by the university you contacted, so check with a couple other universities you plan to apply to and make sure this is true for all of them.

You don't really need to worry about going to a "good pre-med university" as much as you need to worry about getting good grades. Having excellent grades and a good MCAT score will mean infinitely more than the name of the school you go to. Going to a better school might give you a bit of an edge, but if there are pointless hoops a particular school wants you to jump through, like taking the SAT even though you complete two years at a community college, it is probably better to just go to a university that doesn't have those hoops.

Your biggest challenge is going to be getting your GPA up. This is not at all undoable, considering you have just 19 credits so far (your high school GPA doesn't matter at all) but it does mean you have a little less room for error than someone just starting college without any poor grades on their record. Try to get as close to a 4.0 as you can, especially in science courses.

Once you get into the swing of acing college classes, you can look into the required ECs. Don't worry about them yet, as you will have plenty of time to get them in, and it is better to get the hang of getting As in college before you try to add anything on that could impact your GPA. Good luck, welcome to SDN, and let us know if you have any other questions!

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

By the way, if ACT/SAT is recommended, would you recommend taking the ACT or the SAT?

Is it possible to start over, such as applying to a college as a freshmen with no credits, so I start off with a clean record, meaning my poor grades at the college I was attending will not go with me? Is this cheating, is this allowed?

 

[Member09282013]

Congratulations on the fresh start! It's never too late to go back to college and begin again.

A good first step would be to look at the colleges you want to go to and see what their admissions requirements are. If you need to take the SAT to get accepted there, take it. If not, don't bother. In the meantime, going to community college will be an excellent way to get reacquainted with student life and studying. You don't need to major in biology to get accepted to med school. All majors have roughly equal acceptance rates, so pick a major that you find interesting and you can get good grades in. You do need to get a bachelor's degree from a 4-year college, so at some point you will probably need to transfer from your community college. Don't bother with an expensive, prestigious college, though. Med schools really don't care much about that, so your local state university will work just fine.

Thank you for your reply.

I appreciate your help.

By the way, I was thinking that so many people fail the MCAT, that it would be helpful to prepare VERY early for the MCAT, but how early would you recommend someone start preparing for the MCAT? Would you recommend someone even at my stage to start getting familiar with things in the official MCAT study book?

 

[hawkbit]

I wouldn't worry about the mcat until after you've taken the prereqs for it, namely general chemistry 1 &2, organic chemistry 1&2, biology 1&2, and physics 1&2. Actually, since the mcat will be changing in 2015, it will have concepts from intro psychology and sociology as well. Anyways, your goal should be to do your best in those classes first, then you can worry about preparing for the mcat. The better you learn the material in those classes, the easier it will be to follow up with the needed mcat material, so make sure you do your best to really understand the concepts in those classes.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Thank you for your reply.

I appreciate your help.

By the way, I was thinking that so many people fail the MCAT, that it would be helpful to prepare VERY early for the MCAT, but how early would you recommend someone start preparing for the MCAT? Would you recommend someone even at my stage to start getting familiar with things in the official MCAT study book?

Like Hawkbit said, don't bother until you've taken the prerequisite classes. MCAT review books are intended for people who have already taken the necessary classes and just need to brush up on things. You can't fail the MCAT, but if you get too low of a score you won't get accepted to any med schools. Worry about that when it's time to worry. In your case that won't be for a few more years. For now, just focus on getting good grades in the classes you're taking.

It is not possible for you to erase your past college work and get a fresh start unless you want to move to Texas. If you apply to DO schools like Nova in Ft. Lauderdale, you can replace bad grades with good ones by retaking the class. That might be worthwhile for you if you've got one or two D's or F's bringing down an otherwise decent GPA. Your past grades shouldn't be too much of an issue. You've still got lots of credits to take, and good performance in them will easily bring your GPA up to competitive levels.

 

[theseeker4]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

By the way, if ACT/SAT is recommended, would you recommend taking the ACT or the SAT?

Is it possible to start over, such as applying to a college as a freshmen with no credits, so I start off with a clean record, meaning my poor grades at the college I was attending will not go with me? Is this cheating, is this allowed?

It is possible to "start over" only in Texas, if you are a Texas resident, and the grades you are eliminating are at least 10 years old. This "fresh start" applies only to Texas med schools as well. Whether you transfer your classes to a new school or not, when you apply to med school you will have to report every single grade ever earned at any college or university you ever attended. There is no way to "cheat" this other than the Texas Fresh Start. DO schools do allow you to replace older poor grades upon retaking the same or an equivalent course, but they will still see the original grades as well as the new ones. MD schools include all courses into calculating your GPA. The good news is you are not so far in the hole that you can't get out, you will just need to do well from now on.

Regarding the ACT vs. the SAT, I only took the ACT, and that was in 2000 or so, so I can't offer you any advice there, sorry.

 

[silleme]

As a fellow FL resident, I'd see if Broward CC has a 2+2 program where there is guaranteed admission to a University nearby (most likely FIU or Florida Atlantic) to complete your bachelor's degree. Don't discount the 4-year degrees your school offers, as it may be a less expensive pathway provided they have all the core courses you will need for Med School. It may be a foot in the door if you decide to go to FIU as they have a med school there that is fairly new. I know most FL Med Schools say you need around a 3.7/32 to get in, but you've got plenty of classes to get it right, and all the resources you need at your fingertips.

I took both the ACT and SAT both almost 20 years ago. I can say that I scored much higher on the ACT, but neither test currently resembles the one I took anymore. FWIW - If you're looking at either of the 2 schools I mentioned, they both accept you with no test scores provided you are transferring with a completed AA.

 

[Beargryllz]

First, you need to know the part about how 95% of premeds will fail

Then, you have to work really hard for a lot of years

 

[Member09282013]

I wouldn't worry about the mcat until after you've taken the prereqs for it, namely general chemistry 1 &2, organic chemistry 1&2, biology 1&2, and physics 1&2. Actually, since the mcat will be changing in 2015, it will have concepts from intro psychology and sociology as well. Anyways, your goal should be to do your best in those classes first, then you can worry about preparing for the mcat. The better you learn the material in those classes, the easier it will be to follow up with the needed mcat material, so make sure you do your best to really understand the concepts in those classes.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

Thank you for your help.

How can I find out which specific courses I need to take while completing my associate degree?

I went to the website for undergraduate advising for the university I want to go to after I finish my associate degree, or if they accept me before I complete, this is a university with a medical school. On their webpage for "Undergraduate Education Advising Manual," it says "It is recommended that Pre-Med students take BSC 1010 and CHM 1045 (including labs) during their first term to provide the foundation for remaining science courses."

However both of these specific course names are not offered in the list of courses of the community college I am starting my first year at.

I was told by the community college adviser to check the website of the four-year university I want to eventually go to, to know which courses they want me to take - or are they called pre-requisites?

However when I went to the website of the four-year university, it does not specify, and it is difficult to find this information. I wonder why they don't simply list the courses required for students planning on transferring.

 

[Member09282013]

As a fellow FL resident, I'd see if Broward CC has a 2+2 program where there is guaranteed admission to a University nearby (most likely FIU or Florida Atlantic) to complete your bachelor's degree. Don't discount the 4-year degrees your school offers, as it may be a less expensive pathway provided they have all the core courses you will need for Med School. It may be a foot in the door if you decide to go to FIU as they have a med school there that is fairly new. I know most FL Med Schools say you need around a 3.7/32 to get in, but you've got plenty of classes to get it right, and all the resources you need at your fingertips.

I took both the ACT and SAT both almost 20 years ago. I can say that I scored much higher on the ACT, but neither test currently resembles the one I took anymore. FWIW - If you're looking at either of the 2 schools I mentioned, they both accept you with no test scores provided you are transferring with a completed AA.

Thank you.

I was told by the Broward college adviser to check the website of the four-year university I want to eventually go to, to know which courses they want me to take - or are they called pre-requisites?

However when I went to the website for FIU, it does not specify, and it is difficult to find this information. I wonder why they don't simply list the courses required for students planning on transferring.

 

[silleme]

You have to navigate through Academics->Degree-Programs->Degree you want (with a B next to it indicating Bachelors...I selected Biology for an example)->
Once you get to the program page, you have to click on Academics->Undergraduate Programs->Major in XYZ->Then select the most recent term for requirements.


It's a very buried way of getting the information you need, but it's there. You have to get your AA and a lot of the GenEd requirements are waived. Pay attention to that and to how you plan your degee path. If you choose something other than Biology, you'd have to make sure to have your electives before the end of your junior year be the Physics 1/2, Chem 1/2, O-Chem 1/2, Biology 1/2 series completed or nearly so to allow for MCAT prep time.

And just to cut down on time looking...FAU's science degree selection is here, or you can choose a non-science program here.

 

[silleme]

Thank you for your help.

How can I find out which specific courses I need to take while completing my associate degree?

I went to the website for undergraduate advising for the university I want to go to after I finish my associate degree, or if they accept me before I complete, this is a university with a medical school. On their webpage for "Undergraduate Education Advising Manual," it says "It is recommended that Pre-Med students take BSC 1010 and CHM 1045 (including labs) during their first term to provide the foundation for remaining science courses."

However both of these specific course names are not offered in the list of courses of the community college I am starting my first year at.

BSC1010 is going to be Intro to Biology 1 with lab or Biology 1 with lab. Just make sure your course is labeled that, and you should be ok. Same with Bio 2 w/lab.
CHM1045 is Intro to Chemistry 1 with lab, or Chemistry 1 with lab. Most public colleges and universities in FL have standardized course numbering, but in the case of deviations, just look at the course descriptions and make sure they match.

 

[Member09282013]

You have to navigate through Academics->Degree-Programs->Degree you want (with a B next to it indicating Bachelors...I selected Biology for an example)->
Once you get to the program page, you have to click on Academics->Undergraduate Programs->Major in XYZ->Then select the most recent term for requirements.


It's a very buried way of getting the information you need, but it's there. You have to get your AA and a lot of the GenEd requirements are waived. Pay attention to that and to how you plan your degee path. If you choose something other than Biology, you'd have to make sure to have your electives before the end of your junior year be the Physics 1/2, Chem 1/2, O-Chem 1/2, Biology 1/2 series completed or nearly so to allow for MCAT prep time.

And just to cut down on time looking...FAU's science degree selection is here, or you can choose a non-science program here.

Thank you for taking out time to help me with this. I appreciate it.

I am checking out the websites you referred to.

One of the things I inferred from your post, and correct me if I am wrong, is that it is possible to have a major in something other than biology and still become an M.D., as long as one has taken all the required courses to become both an M.D. and to fulfill the requirements for the other graduate degree one is working for?

I saw on the website of the University of Miami, for example, that they offer programs in which one can do two degrees at once, such as M.B.A./M.D., Ph.D./M.D., J.D./M.D., etc.

I want to know if it is possible to do this at any university, to get two degrees at the same time, especially an M.D. along with another degree. Is there a limit? Or does it depend on the university? For example if I have a Bachelor's degree in business, but I have completed all the courses required to enter medical school, can I still enter medical school?

And if I can, then is it also possible to attain a Bachelor's degree in more than one field, by simply fulfilling the credits required? Is a Bachelor's degree in a particular field earned only based on credits, fulfilling the required courses, or is it based on years completed? For example a Bachelor's degree requires x amount of minimum credits to be completed, but I want to complete more than the x amount, because I want to complete the required courses for other degree's as well, could I get all the degrees I want as long as I have completed the minimum x amount of credits for a Bachelor's degree and then on top of that all the required courses for every degree I want to attain?

 

[Member09282013]

BSC1010 is going to be Intro to Biology 1 with lab or Biology 1 with lab. Just make sure your course is labeled that, and you should be ok. Same with Bio 2 w/lab.
CHM1045 is Intro to Chemistry 1 with lab, or Chemistry 1 with lab. Most public colleges and universities in FL have standardized course numbering, but in the case of deviations, just look at the course descriptions and make sure they match.

Thank you for your help.

 

[silleme]

One of the things I inferred from your post, and correct me if I am wrong, is that it is possible to have a major in something other than biology and still become an M.D., as long as one has taken all the required courses to become both an M.D. and to fulfill the requirements for the graduate degree one is working for?

I saw on the website of the University of Miami, for example, that they offer programs in which one can do two degrees at once, such as M.B.A./M.D., Ph.D./M.D., J.D./M.D., etc.

Don't worry about the dual-degree offering just yet, you're going for your Bachelor's and that should be your only focus right now. I'm majoring in Psychology because it interests me more than straight Biology, and should offer me ample opportunity to enjoy my degree plan before medical school. Now I have to use my med school pre-requisite classes as electives, but I'm more than ok with that. You could major in Photography or Music if you really wanted, but you'd still have to take the same pre-reqs regardless of the degree, and be able to explain either in your AMCAS personal statement or interview why you went that degree route and how it makes you a better candidate. I've got my reasons for pursuing the degree I am, it's up to you to see what interests you most.

One word of caution before setting your sights on med school...see how you do in the first couple science courses and go from there. You may decide that the information doesn't interest you or is too challenging and change course. It's easier to do it early in your schooling than later, and less painful on the pocketbook.

 

[Member09282013]

Don't worry about the dual-degree offering just yet, you're going for your Bachelor's and that should be your only focus right now. I'm majoring in Psychology because it interests me more than straight Biology, and should offer me ample opportunity to enjoy my degree plan before medical school. Now I have to use my med school pre-requisite classes as electives, but I'm more than ok with that. You could major in Photography or Music if you really wanted, but you'd still have to take the same pre-reqs regardless of the degree, and be able to explain either in your AMCAS personal statement or interview why you went that degree route and how it makes you a better candidate. I've got my reasons for pursuing the degree I am, it's up to you to see what interests you most.

One word of caution before setting your sights on med school...see how you do in the first couple science courses and go from there. You may decide that the information doesn't interest you or is too challenging and change course. It's easier to do it early in your schooling than later, and less painful on the pocketbook.

Thank you for sharing your story.

What does it mean when someone says they major in one thing but minor in another?

I heard to minor in something is to specialize within the field of the particular major, is this true?

What is the difference between prerequisites and electives?

 

[theseeker4]

Thank you for sharing your story.

What does it mean when someone says they major in one thing but minor in another?

I heard to minor in something is to specialize within the field of the particular major, is this true?

What is the difference between prerequisites and electives?

Often minoring in undergrad is taking a certain number of courses in something completely different from your major, not a sub specialty of your major. If you are interested in something like history or Spanish while majoring in biology, you would take a handful of courses in that area, though not enough for a double major, and be awarded a minor. Minors don't mean anything as far as med school admissions, but they can help in some other careers to make you more marketable. The major of course is the primary area of study for your degree.

Pre reqs are the courses you have to take to be considered for med school admissions, or more generally, they are required to take another course, or for a degree, etc. Anything that is not required is an elective.

 

[Member09282013]

Often minoring in undergrad is taking a certain number of courses in something completely different from your major, not a sub specialty of your major. If you are interested in something like history or Spanish while majoring in biology, you would take a handful of courses in that area, though not enough for a double major, and be awarded a minor. Minors don't mean anything as far as med school admissions, but they can help in some other careers to make you more marketable. The major of course is the primary area of study for your degree.

Pre reqs are the courses you have to take to be considered for med school admissions, or more generally, they are required to take another course, or for a degree, etc. Anything that is not required is an elective.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions.

Is a double major the same thing as "double" degrees (two different degrees)? For example if someone completes all the required courses for two different majors at the same time, can they be awarded two separate Bachelor's degrees? What is the easiest and fastest way of getting two different Bachelor's degrees? For example if I want to get a Bachelor's in one major as well as a Bachelor's in another major?

 

[hawkbit]

I would recommend sitting down with a college adviser, since a lot of your questions are general college advising questions. It should be fairly easy to make an appointment with one, and they could really help you out with the college process, classes, degrees, and related questions. let them know you are interested in pre-medical, and they should be able to steer you on the right track.

 

[Member09282013]

I would recommend sitting down with a college adviser, since a lot of your questions are general college advising questions. It should be fairly easy to make an appointment with one, and they could really help you out with the college process, classes, degrees, and related questions. let them know you are interested in pre-medical, and they should be able to steer you on the right track.

I did try to ask these questions to a college adviser, through walk-in, but they told me to get an appointment to make an educational plan, and at that time they will go over all these things, and I would have much more time, about an hour. But to get an appointment I have to wait at least one or two month. But I want to get these questions answered now, so I can know which direction I am going, and make up my mind on which major(s) I am going to do. It is critical for me to know these things BEFORE I start my first term, because for example pre-med requires taking specific courses in the first term, I want to know what the other major(s) that I am going to do require for me to take in the first term or at least in the first year.

Do you know how else I can get these questions answered, without meeting a college adviser from my own college?

The other thing is, since it is a community college, the adviser seems to not know or not want to answer these questions, because it is non-relevant to them. But I have a friend who went to a community college, and was able to speak to an adviser at the four-year university he planned on going to, because he wanted to know which classes to take for the program he was planning on enrolling in, even though he was not enrolled there, I tried this at the four-year universities, I wanted to go to, but they said I have to get admission before being able to speak to an adviser.

 

[NightWindDriftr]

Do you know how else I can get these questions answered, without meeting a college adviser from my own college?

I think a lot of these questions can be answered via Google. But to humor you...

Is a double major the same thing as "double" degrees (two different degrees)?

Pretty much. Not to be confused with having a major and minor, though.

For example if someone completes all the required courses for two different majors at the same time, can they be awarded two separate Bachelor's degrees?

Yes.

What is the easiest and fastest way of getting two different Bachelor's degrees? For example if I want to get a Bachelor's in one major as well as a Bachelor's in another major?

Choose majors that have the most courses in common. Review the course requirements for each major and compare. Also note any stipulations regarding the applicability of courses to more than one major.

Also note that some colleges won't allow double majors in the same field if that field has different concentrations. For example, at my university, a B.S. biology with a human biology concentration is distinct from a B.S. biology in plant biology, however, we cannot double-major in both concentrations. This is presumably because the core B.S. biology requirements have substantial course similarities between concentrations. Check with your college advisor or course catalog for specifics.

 

[AlexMack12]

It might depend on the specific school. At my undergraduate institution, a double major led to the awarding of one degree upon graduation, but your diploma and transcript would indicate two majors. However it seems like there are other schools that may award you two degrees.
Double majors can indeed be tricky, particularly if there isn't great overlap between the requirements for each major. Pursue a double major if you truly have a strong interest in more than one major (definitely possible!). However, many successful medical students apply with "only" one major so being a double major in and of itself isn't likely to boost your application significantly. That being said, double majoring can expose you to more professors for letters of recommendation, research opportunities, etc. It's all about where your interests lie. Good luck !