Help with School List? cGPA 3.71, sGPA 3.74, MCAT 33-35, from HYP undergrad

[coserena]

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Also a D1 NCAA athlete, Illinois resident, 300+ hours of clinical experience, 500+ hours of research, strong upward trend (started off with a 3.0 freshman fall)


1. George Washington University School of Medicine & Health Sciences

2. Georgetown University School of Medicine

3. Indiana University School of Medicine

4. Keck School of Medicine University of Southern California

5. Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine

6. Mayo Medical School

7. Medical College of Wisconsin

8. Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine

9. Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science

10.Rush Medical College

11.Stanford University School of Medicine

12.University of California San Diego

13.University of Michigan

14.University of Chicago – Pritzker

15.University of Hawaii John A Burns School of Medicine

16.University of Illinois at Chicago – College of Medicine

17.University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine

18.University of Minnesota Medical School – Minneapolis/Duluth

19.University of Washington School of Medicine

20.University of Wisconsin- Madison

 

[efle]

You may want to be a bit more specific. A 35 vs 33 can be significant for many of these schools, a 3.7 at Princeton is different than at Harvard, how much of your clinical experience is volunteerism vs shadowing, did you produce posters/presentations from your research, URM/ORM, typical vs especially great relationships to rec letter writers, etc

And have you researched the OOS interview rates for some of these schools via the MSAR?
U of Washington especially would be tough as the vast majority of their "OOS" interviews go to WAMI residents

 

[Banco]

If you have a 35 you have a much better chance at those top schools.

For now, what is your state? You have a lot of state schools on there and it won't be worth applying to some of them if you aren't from there or a neighboring state.

 

[Goro]

My conservative list:

4. Keck School of Medicine University of Southern California
5. Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
6. Mayo Medical School
7. Medical College of Wisconsin
9. Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science
10.Rush Medical College
16.University of Illinois at Chicago – College of Medicine
CCOM, DMU, MUCOM and any other DO school.
SLU
Case (maybe)
The Philly Triplets
TCMC
Creighton
Albany
NYMC
Hofstra
Oakland-B
Western MI
U Toledo
U AZ
U VM
VCU
Va Tech
EVMA
U Miami
Wake
Tulane

 

[GrapesofRath]

Your school probably has informal data tracking the success of previous applicants from your school with certain GPA/MCAT combos. Use it because while there have been hundreds and hundreds of threads debating how much quality of undergrad institution plays in admission there is definitely a track record of HYP school applicants being looked at different to some extent.

For someone with a 3.7 upward trend from HYP who is a full time division 1 athlete with a good MCAT score, I think your list isn't too far off in terms of having reaches. Goro certainly knows best but I am a kind of surprised by how conservative his list is. I would be interested to see what others who know better have to say. Looking at this though I wouldn't think taking a stab at some top 20 schools is a bad idea. The difference between 33 and 35 does matter btw.

The issue is removing these state schools that take few OOS applicants. Indiana, Hawaii, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington and Minnesota aren't good choices(espec Illinois, Hawaii, Minnesota and Washington) unless you are in-state. GW and Georgetown are also low yield schools I would probably avoid in your case.​

 

[coserena]

You may want to be a bit more specific. A 35 vs 33 can be significant for many of these schools, a 3.7 at Princeton is different than at Harvard, how much of your clinical experience is volunteerism vs shadowing, did you produce posters/presentations from your research, URM/ORM, typical vs especially great relationships to rec letter writers, etc

And have you researched the OOS interview rates for some of these schools via the MSAR?
U of Washington especially would be tough as the vast majority of their "OOS" interviews go to WAMI residents

Ok, so i have a 34 MCAT (12/11/11), about 1/3 of my clinical experience is volunteering and 2/3 is shadowing, I have published in the undergrad journal and am working on a publication for the fall, and I have great relationships with my rec letter writers!

And yes I have. I am an Illinois resident, which is why my school list is mostly around the Midwest!

Thanks!!

 

[coserena]

Your school probably has informal data tracking the success of previous applicants from your school with certain GPA/MCAT combos. Use it because while there have been hundreds and hundreds of threads debating how much quality of undergrad institution plays in admission there is definitely a track record of HYP school applicants being looked at different to some extent.

For someone with a 3.7 upward trend from HYP who is a full time division 1 athlete with a good MCAT score, I think your list isn't too far off in terms of having reaches. Goro certainly knows best but I am a kind of surprised by how conservative his list is. I would be interested to see what others who know better have to say. Looking at this though I wouldn't think taking a stab at some top 20 schools is a bad idea. The difference between 33 and 35 does matter btw.

The issue is removing these state schools that take few OOS applicants. Indiana, Hawaii, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington and Minnesota aren't good choices(espec Illinois, Hawaii, Minnesota and Washington) unless you are in-state. GW and Georgetown are also low yield schools I would probably avoid in your case.​

Ah, thank you! I'm actually an Illinois resident (which is why so many schools are in the Midwest) and I have a 34 MCAT! I'm not sure how much being an athlete helps, but it's definitely much tougher to find time for everything, haha

 

[GrapesofRath]

Ah, thank you! I'm actually an Illinois resident (which is why so many schools are in the Midwest) and I have a 34 MCAT! I'm not sure how much being an athlete helps, but it's definitely much tougher to find time for everything, haha

I would still probably most likely only keep Illinois and perhaps Wisconsin in that case. I happen to really think this is a strong application that could generate consideration from top 20 schools but we shall see.

 

[efle]

Well you certainly have the EC boxes checked regarding research/volunteering/shadowing/something interesting in the form of athletics.

But, with a 34 + 3.7 I imagine you'd have a serious uphill battle for top schools as that's basically at their 10th percentiles ~ 33 + 3.7, assuming you are white/Asian and middle/upper class background. @gyngyn seems to think otherwise though?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Well you certainly have the EC boxes checked regarding research/volunteering/shadowing/something interesting in the form of athletics.

But, with a 34 + 3.7 I imagine you'd have a serious uphill battle for top schools as that's basically at their 10th percentiles ~ 33 + 3.7, assuming you are white/Asian and middle/upper class background. @gyngyn seems to think otherwise though?

I suspect( ie still take with some grains of salt) the HYP name combined with being a D1 athlete counts for more than many think. A 34 is in striking distance for many of those top 20 schools.

 

[gyngyn]

I suspect( ie still take with some grains of salt) the HYP name combined with being a D1 athlete counts for more than many think. A 34 is in striking distance for many of those top 20 schools.

The athlete factor is the wild card.
Hopefully OP will tell us how it goes.

 

[efle]

I suspect( ie still take with some grains of salt) the HYP name combined with being a D1 athlete counts for more than many think. A 34 is in striking distance for many of those top 20 schools.

The athlete factor is the wild card.
Hopefully OP will tell us how it goes.

Is the athletics that attractive? I get that it makes someone memorable/interesting, but I'm surprised it would boost (relatively) low stat applicants. Why would admissions care about their future doctors' athletic ability? Does competing at a high level in other things, say national chess, also give 10th percentile apps a fighting chance?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Is the athletics that attractive? I get that it makes someone memorable/interesting, but I'm surprised it would boost (relatively) low stat applicants. Why would admissions care about their future doctors' athletic ability? Does competing at a high level in other things, say national chess, also give 10th percentile apps a fighting chance?

1) Ability to handle stress and adversity: Athletes face this all the time. There are all kinds of things going on in their life at once. Succeeding in spite of them is a sign one is cut out for med school which is also full of stress.
2) Developing a skill: Athletes spend alot of time and effort to become really good at one sport. Showing you have the work ethic and ability to be that good at something is a sign someone is capable of thriving in med school if they make a similar kind of commitment.
3) Time Management: This is BY FAR the biggest thing here. Athletes don't get much time to study. They don't often times have the luxury of just sitting in the library on weekends or weeknights to just catch up on work or get ahead. They have to be very good at using the limited time they do have to get good grades. OP has. That is a very good sign.

I tend to have a suspicion OP can be competitive for some of these big name top 20 schools like I said above. A 3.7 from HYP is very impressive. The average at alot of top schools such as Michigan, Duke, Harvard and UChicago is around a 3.8 which isn't much different than many lower tiers. The MCAT is the big difference amongst other factors and there are also probably a greater proportion of top applicants at top schools than at the lower tier ones. It's also worth noting the OP's MCAT is below average for these top schools listed but it is within 2 points so I don't see that as some form of major issue.

 

[gyngyn]

Is the athletics that attractive? I get that it makes someone memorable/interesting, but I'm surprised it would boost (relatively) low stat applicants. Why would admissions care about their future doctors' athletic ability? Does competing at a high level in other things, say national chess, also give 10th percentile apps a fighting chance?

This is quite unpredictable.
In our committee, there are a couple of members who are very impressed with student athletes, as long as the academics are strong. They often explain this opinion as @GrapesofRath does above. Then there is the majority that wouldn't know D1 from fly fishing.

 

[efle]

This is quite unpredictable.
In our committee, there are a couple of members who are very impressed with student athletes, as long as the academics are strong. They often explain this opinion as @GrapesofRath does above. Then there is the majority that wouldn't know D1 from fly fishing.

It just seems like all the stuff demonstrated by high athletics can be seen elsewhere in your typical applicant. Dedication in research, time management in working a part time on top of ECs and straight As, and so on. I guess to some people athletics specifically brings something special though

 

[gyngyn]

It just seems like all the stuff demonstrated by high athletics can be seen elsewhere in your typical applicant. Dedication in research, time management in working a part time on top of ECs and straight As, and so on. I guess to some people athletics specifically brings something special though

Athletics seems to speak to a small number of members is some special way. You are right that there are many other ways that are at least as accessible to most evaluators.

 

[Banco]

Is the athletics that attractive? I get that it makes someone memorable/interesting, but I'm surprised it would boost (relatively) low stat applicants. Why would admissions care about their future doctors' athletic ability? Does competing at a high level in other things, say national chess, also give 10th percentile apps a fighting chance?

Do you know what a D1 athlete's schedule is like?

 

[efle]

Do you know what a D1 athlete's schedule is like?

Is it more intense than someone working part time, doing research, volunteering, playing D3 sports and still making straight A's in 18+ credit hour loads? Because that ain't special

 

[Banco]

Is it more intense than someone working part time, doing research, volunteering, playing D3 sports and still making straight A's in 18+ credit hour loads? Because that ain't special

Don't worry, that's impressive too.

D1 is like having a full time job - 30-40 hours of athletic activities a week is common. So a D1 athlete that can manage their time and do all the above activities and still do well in school is very special. I can see why some adcoms/schools would highly value that.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Full-time participation in a serious D3 athletic program is no joke either. I would add one thing to GofRath's explanation. Collegiate athletics can demonstrate a high level of teamwork. Perhaps less importantly, participation may reveal a candidate who is more well-rounded and socially facile than a brilliant 4.0 who spends his or her free time in the research lab. This is not to say that other activities, like being a dedicated and talented musician, won't be equally valued.

I too am impressed by the OP as described and I would expect some of the reaches to end up being within reach.

One question....why is a 35 valued so much more than a 33? Aren't we talking a difference in a few correct answers and 1-2 percentile points in difference? Seems a small difference to make an ultimate decision on.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Above all else being a D1 athlete who can also be a top student is incredibly unique. It stands out. That matters alot in med school admission full of top stat applicants with very similar activities.

Keep in mind D1 athlete 30-40 hours a week vs minimum wage job 30-40 hours a week couldn't be more different things. I have a lot of respect for both, but the level of stress, pressure to produce, emphasis on results and not just showing up, weekly traveling all over the country, dealing with coaches and others doesn't compare.

What gyngyn said is spot on. There are many in admission who I'm sure have no idea the type of commitment being a D1 athlete is. That's what makes this such a wildcard. On the surface though a balanced applicant with a 3.7/34 from HYP even without athletics I think can be competitive for some top 20 schools. The being a D1 athlete just makes this all rather interesting.

 

[efle]

Full-time participation in a serious D3 athletic program is no joke either. I would add one thing to GoP's explanation. Collegiate athletics can demonstrate a high level of teamwork. Perhaps less importantly, participation may reveal a candidate who is more well-rounded and socially facile than a brilliant 4.0 who spends his or her free time in the research lab. This is not to say that other activities, like being a dedicated and talented musician, won't be equally valued.

I too am impressed by the OP as described and I would expect some of the reaches to end up being within reach.

One question....why is a 35 valued so much more than a 33? Aren't we talking a difference in a few correct answers and 1-2 percentile points in difference? Seems a small difference to make an ultimate decision on.

Because a 35 predicts higher step scores than a 33, and there is no shortage of 35+ applicants with equally impressive ECs. Hell some schools keep a 38 median and a 34 as their 10th percentile!

 

[Nietzschelover]

That's interesting because looking at the AAMC charts a 27 or above seems to correlate just about as well with passing the Steps, and actually at the highest MCAT scores there is a dip in passing. I understand that schools want the higher scores to boost their own median stats, but is there actually a true qualitative difference between a 33 and a 35, or for that matter, a 35 and a 37, or a 36 and a 38?

 

[efle]

That's interesting because looking at the AAMC charts a 27 or above seems to correlate just about as well with passing the Steps, and actually at the highest MCAT scores there is a dip in passing. I understand that schools want the higher scores to boost their own median stats, but is there actually a true qualitative difference between a 33 and a 35, or for that matter, a 35 and a 37, or a 36 and a 38?

Yeah at that top tier level they want higher scores, not a higher pass rate. According to the AAMC there is a significant difference between scores until 37. Though I don't even know how they could speak to whether a 43 is different from a 40 and so on, as I doubt anyone scoring that high retakes

 

[coserena]

Wow thanks for all the replies everyone!!

This might not pertain to medicine itself, but I guess maybe I could share some of my personal experiences as an athlete, since it has probably had THE most significant impact on my life.

I was recruited as a nationally ranked athlete, Olympic trial qualifier and expected to compete at the same level in college. Freshman year was a struggle with 30+ hours dedicated to the team on top of academics that were way beyond anything I had experienced in high school, but I figured out a decent balance by sophomore year and was able to compete decently well. I also took up a research position and a job cleaning toilets (lol).

However, at the end of the season my second year I injured my back and couldn't compete for the following season. So I decided to cram my schedule in with more work including tutoring, volunteering, leadership and outreach committees, even more research, etc but even with all this the amount of physical and mental stamina required was nowhere NEAR what I had went through on the team. My life was less structured and I found myself missing waking up at 5 for practice, running back and forth between classes and the athletic facilities, the camaderie of the team, the feeling of pushing myself every day, the exercise, etc. My back is much better now so I can return to the team if I can prove to my coach that I am in good enough shape so that's what I'm working on now.

Sitting out that season made me value everything sports has taught me throughout my life and it has prepared me physically and mentally for many future encounters. Dealing with coaches who had different philosophies was hard - but dealing with patients will be difficult at times too. Working with a team means that people with different values and personalities must come together at the right time to get the job done. Pushing my body to exhaustion again and again and failing to perform, yet learning to stand up and try again taught me the resilience I needed. Yes, athletics is just another extracurricular but it's one that has taught me more life skills than anything else ever could.

That being said, even if being an athlete doesn't help very much with admissions, I won't regret my experiences as a collegiate athlete. Those couple of GPA/MCAT points aren't worth the vast amount of social, mental, physical, life skills that I have acquired in my many years being an athlete, and I do believe that if I am fortunate enough to be a doctor one day, I can use what I've learned to be a kind, compassionate, understanding, yet smart, efficient, and determined doctor.

Wow that started to sound like a personal statement so sorry for that! But I greatly appreciate all your comments!! 🙂

 

[Banco]

Its good that you can speak so positively about your experiences as an athlete, that is one thing that will definitely help, whether or not you get any official "bump" in your application.

 

[deleted577188]

Very interested to see how this cycle turns out for you! Keep up updated throughout!!

 

[Willy38]

Wow thanks for all the replies everyone!!

This might not pertain to medicine itself, but I guess maybe I could share some of my personal experiences as an athlete, since it has probably had THE most significant impact on my life.

I was recruited as a nationally ranked athlete, Olympic trial qualifier and expected to compete at the same level in college. Freshman year was a struggle with 30+ hours dedicated to the team on top of academics that were way beyond anything I had experienced in high school, but I figured out a decent balance by sophomore year and was able to compete decently well. I also took up a research position and a job cleaning toilets (lol).

However, at the end of the season my second year I injured my back and couldn't compete for the following season. So I decided to cram my schedule in with more work including tutoring, volunteering, leadership and outreach committees, even more research, etc but even with all this the amount of physical and mental stamina required was nowhere NEAR what I had went through on the team. My life was less structured and I found myself missing waking up at 5 for practice, running back and forth between classes and the athletic facilities, the camaderie of the team, the feeling of pushing myself every day, the exercise, etc. My back is much better now so I can return to the team if I can prove to my coach that I am in good enough shape so that's what I'm working on now.

Sitting out that season made me value everything sports has taught me throughout my life and it has prepared me physically and mentally for many future encounters. Dealing with coaches who had different philosophies was hard - but dealing with patients will be difficult at times too. Working with a team means that people with different values and personalities must come together at the right time to get the job done. Pushing my body to exhaustion again and again and failing to perform, yet learning to stand up and try again taught me the resilience I needed. Yes, athletics is just another extracurricular but it's one that has taught me more life skills than anything else ever could.

That being said, even if being an athlete doesn't help very much with admissions, I won't regret my experiences as a collegiate athlete. Those couple of GPA/MCAT points aren't worth the vast amount of social, mental, physical, life skills that I have acquired in my many years being an athlete, and I do believe that if I am fortunate enough to be a doctor one day, I can use what I've learned to be a kind, compassionate, understanding, yet smart, efficient, and determined doctor.

Wow that started to sound like a personal statement so sorry for that! But I greatly appreciate all your comments!! 🙂

You will be fine. Athletics can be ridiculous in college, 40+ hours per week depending on the sport, no summers, limited winter break etc. Most adcoms realize this level of commitment. Major kudos for performing so well. I think your list looks solid, definitely a chance at some top tiers but of course, nothing is a guarantee. Best of luck!