Hi.

  • Thread starter Thread starter A. Melanoleuca
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A. Melanoleuca

Hi.

I am a primary care Resident at a large academic teaching hospital on the East Coast which, to avoid getting too specific, we will call "Earl."

I am pretty sorry I matched into this program. How sorry am I? Let me count the ways.

First of all I have landed in a specialty which is slowly being taken over, body-snatcher like, by PAs and NPs. This is no cut at PAs and NPs who are very intelligent, highly motivated people. Unfortunately, because we pretty much punt everything remotely complicated to one specialist or another the job-description is more "routing clerk" than physician. Why shouldn't it be performed by a motivated, well-trained PA? Certainly a medical degree doesn't seem to be an absolute requirement.

In fact, other than the name-tags, many of our patients don't even know they are seeing a PA or an MD. It's all the same. What they do want is to see a "real doctor" in some other clinic and many resent mightily the non-elimination of the middle-man.

It's not that we don't get medical training. We do. It's just that a lot of it is never going to be used in the real world. We do a lot of labor and delivery, for example, but we are not OB-Gyns and I understand that our specialty, for liability reasons, is abandoning this part of practice. We do some MICU but nobody is ever going to hire us to work in an MICU and this skill, too, will atrophy.

In short, we're receiving good training for a specialty which is vanishing out from under us. Salaries are going down, fewer and fewer people are choosing to go into the field, and even this program at a prestigious university has to fill their shrinking complement of residents through the scramble.

The new paradigm, or philosophy, or gestalt, or whatever you want to call it of our specialty is also not to my liking. It is something called "community medicine" and basically amounts to expecting physicians to be social workers. The time we waste on "fuzzy," happy-happy, non-medical training aimed at preparing us to distribute condoms at high schools and haunt the local churches nagging the fat poor people to lose weight would astound you. We even are scheduled to make home visits where, in the company of a real social worker, we will perform low-skill medicine on people who really would be better served by a community health nurse or a "barefoot doctor" a la Communist China.

Say what you want. Big fan of the welfare state or not. love the poor or don't. I didn't enlist to be a social worker and I am carrying too much medical school debt to even think about wasting my hopefully valuable time on perhaps the most inefficient use of a physican's time that I can possibly think of.

Of course the program is hopelessly liberal. The poor are all saints who's are only medically non-compliant (excuse me: "pre-compliant") because of their insurmountable "barriers to care." To train here is to believe it is somehow society's fault that a patient with no job, drawing disability for a more-or-less bogus condition, and with a functioning phone and an automobile can't keep an appointment and won't take free medications as directed.

We have to sit around in pointless group sessions inventing solutions like "better education," "more public programs," and "more of the same paternalism" when what some patients need is a kick in the ass.

(To be continued.)
 
Then their is the constant stream of evaluations for everything and nothing. We have to evaluate every lecture, every activity, and every possible thing. Additionally, we are subjected to what is called "360" evaluation meaning that every maternity-fornicator from the janitor to the head of the department gets to evaluate you.

Call me a snob but I don't care what the janitor thinks about me. I don't comment on the job he does cleaning the crappers, I don't expect his feedback on my clinic skills.

And as much as I like the nurses and as well as I get along with them, they have no business evaluting me either. Same with PAs. I don't get to evaluate them and since their evaluations have nothing to do with my graduating the program or will have any effect on my personality, demeanor, or outlook what's the friggin' point?

Oh, and all of this evaluation paperwork is taken very seriously. I have been paged to come to the office to fill out a couple of sections of a couple of forms I left blank...and to redo some evaluations that they couldn't find because it has always been my habit to throw evaluation forms away as a waste of time.

Jeez. I don't care. It's not as if any constructive criticism is tolerated. Generally the critic is just opening himself up to being browbeaten into recanting his original position.

Not to mention that vis-a-vis evaluations of me, I don't need to have my ego stroked if I'm doing well or a federal case made out of things if I'm not. If I'm screwing up (which I have not done yet) a simple "you're screwing up." would suffice. Other than that I believe in the principle of no news being good news. If I'm performing to standard than let it go at that.

Aren't we now, as residents, way, way, beyond the concept of grades? What are they going to do? Give me a B- for clinic? So what? Who cares?

(to be continued)
 
Wow Dr. Mom, you could've at least waited for him to finish his series of postings before you decided to move the topic. 😉

Anyhow Dr. Mel, there is still a definite place for your specialty. I'm assuming you are in family practice. It really just depends on where you decide to practice. Of course, in big cities with a multitude of specialties, you may seem like a "social worker" where your medicine is used to a minimum. But if you decide to practice in more rural areas, believe me... EVERYTHING you learn in residency will be used.

I myself had finished a pediatric residency and then went back home to practice on Guam. Most general pediatricians on the mainland have their clinic and rounding in the hospital ward/term nursery as the scope of their practice. But as a Gen Ped on Guam, I took care of patients in the PICU/NICU. I also attended deliveries of high risk babies, running the resuscitation. Boy was a glad I did as many UV/UA lines as I could during resiency. Some of the best practitioners on Guam are family practice docs... their scope of knowledge they have amassed over their years of practice is amazing.

But hey, if the specialty doesn't suit you... simply go into another. I really do think a specialty in medicine exists for every different temperament out there. Otherwise, don't lose hope. Depending on where you decide to practice, you may look back and appreciate the training you had in residency.
 
Bernardo_11 said:
Wow Dr. Mom, you could've at least waited for him to finish his series of postings before you decided to move the topic. 😉

Anyhow Dr. Mel, there is still a definite place for your specialty. I'm assuming you are in family practice. It really just depends on where you decide to practice. Of course, in big cities with a multitude of specialties, you may seem like a "social worker" where your medicine is used to a minimum. But if you decide to practice in more rural areas, believe me... EVERYTHING you learn in residency will be used.

I myself had finished a pediatric residency and then went back home to practice on Guam. Most general pediatricians on the mainland have their clinic and rounding in the hospital ward/term nursery as the scope of their practice. But as a Gen Ped on Guam, I took care of patients in the PICU/NICU. I also attended deliveries of high risk babies, running the resuscitation. Boy was a glad I did as many UV/UA lines as I could during resiency. Some of the best practitioners on Guam are family practice docs... their scope of knowledge they have amassed over their years of practice is amazing.

But hey, if the specialty doesn't suit you... simply go into another. I really do think a specialty in medicine exists for every different temperament out there. Otherwise, don't lose hope. Depending on where you decide to practice, you may look back and appreciate the training you had in residency.

Oh, I do appreciate some of the rotations. I just seem to like the ones which are not in my specialty like MICU and Medicine while I dislike the ones which are.
 
Gee, I wonder where you are training 🙄

Im sorry that you are faced with this during your residency. However, you should know that when you get out of residency, a wonderful FP job will be out there waiting for you, regardless of what you experience at...Earl. You can find (or create) that thing that you desired enough to choose FP as a specialty in the first place (assuming it is FP).
 
Idiopathic said:
Gee, I wonder where you are training 🙄

Im sorry that you are faced with this during your residency. However, you should know that when you get out of residency, a wonderful FP job will be out there waiting for you, regardless of what you experience at...Earl. You can find (or create) that thing that you desired enough to choose FP as a specialty in the first place (assuming it is FP).

You are absolutely right! I am an FP and I enjoy my job. I work on a small tropical resort island paradise (vacation spot) practicing a mix of family medicine and urgent care. I work M-F 8-5 in an office that is 10 minutes from the beach. No hospital. I don't want to work in a hospital. Having been in practice for a few years after residency, I soon learned that being constantly awakened in the middle of the night by the hospital is no fun at all. I don't do everything in medicine, and don't want to, because medicine is not everything to me.

The great thing about FP is that you can "tailor" your practice to do whatever you want.
 
Idiopathic said:
Gee, I wonder where you are training 🙄

Im sorry that you are faced with this during your residency. However, you should know that when you get out of residency, a wonderful FP job will be out there waiting for you, regardless of what you experience at...Earl. You can find (or create) that thing that you desired enough to choose FP as a specialty in the first place (assuming it is FP).

I'm doing ERAS again. I will be switching either to a certain primary care specialty for which I originally tried to match (with a little luck) or another which is also three years but not nearly as fruity.

Dude, the worst thing is the standardized patient training we have to do. (Actors playing patients for those of you who have never experienced it) Apparently it is not enough that we see patients every day and all day but we must be videotaped interacting with actors after which the videos are viewed and criticized by faculty and fellow residents during Khmer Rouge like re-education sessions. We are even expected to jump in and criticise ourselves.

I am older than the typical resident. My personality and mannerisms are set. My patients like me and I have never had an adverse encounter with a one who wasn't drunk, stoned, or psychotic. I tell a few jokes every now and then. I can be blunt when required. It's not the happy happy joy joy totally empathetic physician-as-Julie-your-totally-bland-cruise-director they are looking for but it works for me and it's a little insulting to have my aforementioned personality style criticised by a bunch of pampered baby-boomers.

As if it isn't humiliating enough being an intern (and it certainly can be although I endure it because it's expected and a due we have to pay) now I have to recieve correction, criticism, and supervision on something that I have no intention of changing, will have no impact on my graduation ("We're not going to board certify him because he doesn't emote pity well enough.") and is really the worst sort of invasion of privacy.
 
Do you really think that another primary care specialty will be different? I believe the reasons you have mentioned are just some of the things that keep people away from primary care. Just my opinion.
 
MD Dreams said:
Do you really think that another primary care specialty will be different? I believe the reasons you have mentioned are just some of the things that keep people away from primary care. Just my opinion.

Let's just say that Internal Medicine, one of the primary care specialties in which I hope to match next year, especially at the program where I want to match, is nothing like the specialty in which I curently find myself. It is more serious, if I can use that word, and very little if any of their time is spent on fuzzy subjects.

I believe that my current specialty is struggling to define itself which is fine. I just don't think they're struggling in my direction. It may be true that an army of caring, adequetely trained, relatively low-payed health care providors fanning out into the hinterlands is the best way to deliver health care. Hell, I'm not even going to dispute that because it probably is. I just don't want to be one of 'em.

I just want to reiterate that at my program there are more NPs and PAs than first year residents. This is the future of of this specialty. A few physicians here and there providing medical direction to more-or-less independent mid-level providors. Nothing wrong with this, of course, because while every specialty has its "bread and butter" diseases forming the bulk of the caseload, this particular specialty's "bread and butter" are pretty low acuity and there is no reason a reasonably trained technician couldn't handle most of them.

In other words, you'll see a NP for a cold but you might not want to for your CHF.

Another thing I want to add is that my program is in love with alternative and holistic medicine. Now, I know that there is a lot to some aspects of "alternative" medicine that need to be explored. On the other hand a lot of it is quackery and this needs to be explored too. At our program, unfortunately, the presumption is that all other cultural medical practices are valid until proven otherwise which is 180 degrees out of sync with the normal requirments for healthy skepticism.

In other words, if you are absolutley, positively, one-hundred percent in love with acupuncture and think it is the greatest thing since Acetomeniphen then maybe I should take your research with a grain of salt. Surely if a drug company made wild claims for their product my BS Radar would go off.
 
A. Melanoleuca said:
Let's just say that Internal Medicine, one of the primary care specialties in which I hope to match next year, especially at the program where I want to match, is nothing like the specialty in which I curently find myself. It is more serious, if I can use that word, and very little if any of their time is spent on fuzzy subjects.

I believe that my current specialty is struggling to define itself which is fine. I just don't think they're struggling in my direction. It may be true that an army of caring, adequetely trained, relatively low-payed health care providors fanning out into the hinterlands is the best way to deliver health care. Hell, I'm not even going to dispute that because it probably is. I just don't want to be one of 'em.

I just want to reiterate that at my program there are more NPs and PAs than first year residents. This is the future of of this specialty. A few physicians here and there providing medical direction to more-or-less independent mid-level providors. Nothing wrong with this, of course, because while every specialty has its "bread and butter" diseases forming the bulk of the caseload, this particular specialty's "bread and butter" are pretty low acuity and there is no reason a reasonably trained technician couldn't handle most of them.

In other words, you'll see a NP for a cold but you might not want to for your CHF.

Another thing I want to add is that my program is in love with alternative and holistic medicine. Now, I know that there is a lot to some aspects of "alternative" medicine that need to be explored. On the other hand a lot of it is quackery and this needs to be explored too. At our program, unfortunately, the presumption is that all other cultural medical practices are valid until proven otherwise which is 180 degrees out of sync with the normal requirments for healthy skepticism.

In other words, if you are absolutley, positively, one-hundred percent in love with acupuncture and think it is the greatest thing since Acetomeniphen then maybe I should take your research with a grain of salt. Surely if a drug company made wild claims for their product my BS Radar would go off.

This sounds like typical D.O. stuff to me, eh?
 
It definitely sounds like a switch to IM is in order to get you into the more cerebral, serious aspects of medicine. That said, however, it does sound as though your program is ridiculously touchy-feely. The family medicine program at my small, southern medical school is stocked with serious, great doctors who practice with the spirit of FM without the PC bulls**t and who could hang with any well-trained internist. You might still find a FM program you like. Just be careful about which IM program you choose because some of the same crap runs through some primary care programs.
 
A. Melanoleuca said:
Let's just say that Internal Medicine, one of the primary care specialties in which I hope to match next year, especially at the program where I want to match, is nothing like the specialty in which I curently find myself. It is more serious, if I can use that word, and very little if any of their time is spent on fuzzy subjects.

I believe that my current specialty is struggling to define itself which is fine. I just don't think they're struggling in my direction. It may be true that an army of caring, adequetely trained, relatively low-payed health care providors fanning out into the hinterlands is the best way to deliver health care. Hell, I'm not even going to dispute that because it probably is. I just don't want to be one of 'em.

I just want to reiterate that at my program there are more NPs and PAs than first year residents. This is the future of of this specialty. A few physicians here and there providing medical direction to more-or-less independent mid-level providors. Nothing wrong with this, of course, because while every specialty has its "bread and butter" diseases forming the bulk of the caseload, this particular specialty's "bread and butter" are pretty low acuity and there is no reason a reasonably trained technician couldn't handle most of them.

In other words, you'll see a NP for a cold but you might not want to for your CHF.

Another thing I want to add is that my program is in love with alternative and holistic medicine. Now, I know that there is a lot to some aspects of "alternative" medicine that need to be explored. On the other hand a lot of it is quackery and this needs to be explored too. At our program, unfortunately, the presumption is that all other cultural medical practices are valid until proven otherwise which is 180 degrees out of sync with the normal requirments for healthy skepticism.

In other words, if you are absolutley, positively, one-hundred percent in love with acupuncture and think it is the greatest thing since Acetomeniphen then maybe I should take your research with a grain of salt. Surely if a drug company made wild claims for their product my BS Radar would go off.

I am sorry that you are having such a bad experience at your current program. However, most FP programs are not like the one you are in. Many medical students agree that for most specialties, the "big academic centers" are the best place to go. However, this is not the case with Family Medicine. Many students make the mistake and get mesmerized by the "big name university programs" when going into family medicine. In most cases (not all) these high profile programs are the worst to go to if you are doing family med. Most of the time the FP program is looked down upon and disrespected by most of the other programs. I suspect that is the case where you are. In family medicine, the best programs are usually the unopposed community hospitals. The medical education you get at these programs is excellent. They prepare you to practice medicine in any medical setting.

The idea that NPs and PAs are going to overtake the field of FP is riduculous and unfortunately a very common misconception. Another huge misconception is that FPs dont see complicated patients. FPs see a large number of complicated patients. The education that NPs and PAs receive does not prepare them to be able to manage the avg FP patient.

It looks like you are leaning towards IM. I wish you the best of luck. Let me offer you this one warning. If you do IM and decide just to do primary care after you 3 years, you won't be doing anything different (other than not seeing kids) that the FP down the street is doing. Also, if you truly believe in the misconception that NPs and PAs are going to overrun FP, then as a general IM doc you will be in the same situation (both will never happen though). Once again, I hate it that you are having a bad experience at your current program and I wish you the best of luck in the future.
 
SmittySC said:
...However, this is not the case with Family Medicine. Many students make the mistake and get mesmerized by the "big name university programs" when going into family medicine. In most cases (not all) these high profile programs are the worst to go to if you are doing family med. Most of the time the FP program is looked down upon and disrespected by most of the other programs....

You are absolutely correct about this.

Well, I've vented my spleen and I feel better for it. Thanks for the advice. I know it is well meant.
 
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