high quality-to-competitiveness ratio programs

[Idioteque]

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Someone in another thread brought up a term I found interesting: high quality-to-competitiveness ratio. They were referring to Emory being a program that has superb training but isn't as competitive as its counterparts. Any other programs that come to mind with great training but you don't have to be a hot shot to get in?

 

[BobA]

Someone in another thread brought up a term I found interesting: high quality-to-competitiveness ratio. They were referring to Emory being a program that has superb training but isn't as competitive as its counterparts. Any other programs that come to mind with great training but you don't have to be a hot shot to get in?

A lot of this depends on what you mean by "hot shot." You'd probably get good training at many programs, and I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the "name." It really doesn't matter. On my interview trail I found that the working conditions were worse at the "bigger name" programs.

Of schools I looked at I think Michigan had the highest quality-to-competitiveness ratio, followed closely by MUSC.

I thought someone who trained at Michigan would be as well prepared as someone who trained at Penn/Longwood/Brown, and the research and fellowship opportunities there are as good as they are just about anywhere. For someone with a family, Michigan also offers great benefits (4 weeks vacation, better pay than other places, moonlighting) and Ann Arbor is a nice place to raise kids. They do have some really good residents (especially in the research track) but seem to go down their rank list further than you'd expect for the quality of program (Did they not fill two years ago?) I'm guessing because of the weather.

MUSC is similarly great, with excellent training, research and fellowships. I also thought highly of the residents and faculty I met there.

Even though MUSC and Michigan have a high quality-to-competitiveness ratio, I don't mean to speak ill of them. Just the opposite. I really did think they were great, and at least on par with Penn/Brown/Cambridge. Also, all the residents I met at these programs were USAMG's I would've looked forward to working with.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I have previously posited a relevant formula for competitiveness.

In general, it's easy: if the program is one you've heard mentioned in the context of being a top-20ish program, and it's not in California (plus Seattle), New York City, or Boston, then it's got a high QtC ratio. Also consider how many slots the program has. More than 8, and that makes it a bit less competitive too. Being generally on the west coast or the mid-Atlantic or higher is also a bit of a boost.

I would mention Hopkins, Maryland, MUSC, Duke, UNC, Emory, Vanderbilt, Cincy, Pitt, Michigan, Wash U, Baylor, UTSW, and Colorado, in order of the way my brain snaked through the country.

Of course, if you're not academically inclined, you could probably add another 50 programs to that list.

 

[BobA]

I have previously posited a relevant formula for competitiveness.

In general, it's easy: if the program is one you've heard mentioned in the context of being a top-20ish program, and it's not in California (plus Seattle), New York City, or Boston, then it's got a high QtC ratio. Also consider how many slots the program has. More than 8, and that makes it a bit less competitive too. Being generally on the west coast or the mid-Atlantic or higher is also a bit of a boost.

I would mention Hopkins, Maryland, MUSC, Duke, UNC, Emory, Vanderbilt, Cincy, Pitt, Michigan, Wash U, Baylor, UTSW, and Colorado, in order of the way my brain snaked through the country.

Of course, if you're not academically inclined, you could probably add another 50 programs to that list.

Your formula is so good I've got to post it again. BPs competitiveness formula:

"{[Average rent in city (in dollars) / 100] + sqrt[ NIH research dollars (in millions) ] + log [ Jews / Protestants ]} / kilometers from nearest ocean.

That should give you the Billypilgrim competitiveness index."

 

[worriedwell]

I'm actually also interested in peoples opinions of lowest quality to competitiveness ratio.

For example, I've heard people (probably those competing against them) mention that the Boston programs "rest on their laurels" and still get great applicants due to the Harvard name.

Do others agree? Any other programs which people feel the program does not live up to the quality of the residents there?

 

[BobA]

I'm actually also interested in peoples opinions of lowest quality to competitiveness ratio.

For example, I've heard people (probably those competing against them) mention that the Boston programs "rest on their laurels" and still get great applicants due to the Harvard name.

Do others agree? Any other programs which people feel the program does not live up to the quality of the residents there?

In terms of the Harvard programs, I disagree. At interview day we got packets with all their bios and I've got to say that the residents at Longwood and Cambridge are impressive. They were also very nice people.

For personal reasons I ranked other programs more highly, but both Longwood and Cambridge attract great people.

I don't think MGH scrapes the bottom of the barrel either. 😉

Overall, I think there are so many more spots at good programs than there are quality applicants that I don't think you'll see any programs with residents who are "too good" for a particular program (whatever that means). Psych isn't derm where US-allopathics who are AOA go off and work in a sweat shop-like hospital in east BF. The tables are totally reversed.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I'm actually also interested in peoples opinions of lowest quality to competitiveness ratio.

These programs certainly exist, but no one can decide which programs they are! 😉 It would certainly be fair to say that in cities that have more than 3 or 4 psych programs, there's a good chance that people matching at some of those lower-tiered programs could have matched at much better quality programs if they didn't HAVE to live in Manhattan or Boston or Chicago.