Higher Degrees as Hem/Onc Fellow

[Granulomatosis]

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Hey everyone. I'm a 4th year medical student entering IM, considering academic hem/onc. I have been involved in basic onc research throughout my undergrad and when I can in med school, and I am considering the possibility of obtaining an MSc (or potentially PhD) in a relevant biomedical field in the future to supplement my research. Practically speaking, is it common for fellows in hem/onc to pursue these paths during their 3 year fellowship, or at some point afterwards, or have people generally all done them during medical school?

I'm trying to weigh the potential benefits of seeking a higher degree in my field, as opposed to doing a research track during hem/onc fellowship and getting a masters of clinical investigation, etc. Practically, will it make a difference in the long run? Is it feasible to pursue basic research alongside your clinical work without these higher degrees?

Thanks!

 

[Metaform]

Depends what you want to do. Do you want to be a clinical investigator, translational researcher, or be involved in the business of medicine then getting corresponding degree ie masters phd or mba May be helpful.

Plenty of PIs don’t have PhDs or MSC and are clinical investigators. If you want to be in a lab may be worth while but if you prefer being in a lab over a clinic seeing patient why are you pursuing medicine, would be my question.

I published nothing, and am a fellow straight out of residency. No other ‘advanced’ degrees. Not interested in academia. I like treating patients and making money. I may consider an mba in the future but for right now I want to enjoy my youth and look forward to my anticipated income.


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[Metaform]

Also my program allows plenty of time for research and if you’re really looking for specialized training places like MD Anderson have an investigational research fellowship for fellows who’ve completed three years of fellowship.

In general, I’m not an advocate of piling on extraneous degrees (or these silly combine residency programs for that matter).



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[CatFactorial]

Yale has a PhD baked into their research track

 

[Syndicate]

I published nothing, and am a fellow straight out of residency. No other ‘advanced’ degrees. Not interested in academia. I like treating patients and making money. I may consider an mba in the future but for right now I want to enjoy my youth and look forward to my anticipated income.


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Are the majority of heme/onc fellowships strictly clinical? I heard that a lot of programs require at least 1 year of dedicated research within the 3 years of fellowship.

I am a 4th year med student going into IM and like you, I would just like to see patients in a clinic setting and make money. I don't have any background or interest in academics or research. I am worried this might hinder me from obtaining a heme/onc fellowship and potentially during interviews when I don't know how to talk about research.

 

[whoknows2012]

Are the majority of heme/onc fellowships strictly clinical? I heard that a lot of programs require at least 1 year of dedicated research within the 3 years of fellowship.

I am a 4th year med student going into IM and like you, I would just like to see patients in a clinic setting and make money. I don't have any background or interest in academics or research. I am worried this might hinder me from obtaining a heme/onc fellowship and potentially during interviews when I don't know how to talk about research.

Many programs do have research requirements yes. Some as much as 12-18 months. Others as little as 6 months. Obviously there are also programs mostly community and smaller academic that have no research requirements st all. The catch 22 here is while you may know/think you’re only interested in the clinical aspect, job prospects will always be better coming from a better program and so it may be beneficial to your future prospects, even if it is in private practice, to go to the best program possible even if you don’t love research. Just my 2 cents

 

[tallash]

Only on SDN...this is rich, no pun intended.

The same person who wrote this:

I published nothing, and am a fellow straight out of residency. No other ‘advanced’ degrees. Not interested in academia. I like treating patients and making money. I may consider an mba in the future but for right now I want to enjoy my youth and look forward to my anticipated income.

Wrote this:

Also my program allows plenty of time for research and if you’re really looking for specialized training places like MD Anderson have an investigational research fellowship for fellows who’ve completed three years of fellowship.

In general, I’m not an advocate of piling on extraneous degrees (or these silly combine residency programs for that matter).

The MBA is probably the single most extraneous degree there is, other than perhaps a doctorate in philosophy. I highly recommend that you just go into private practice and save yourself the time of getting an MBA. Also, I recommend that you not offer advice outside of this very narrow scope of experience that you have carved out for yourself, especially on SDN.

To the OP: if you are interested in basic science research and academic hem/onc, the vast majority of people who have degrees in excess of the MD will have earned those degrees prior to their clinical training. There are some fellowships that have graduate training baked in; I know of one track at Stanford and apparently Yale has one as well, although a quick Google search on my end could not confirm that program at Yale. So do some legwork and dig around - it may involve some emails to program directors to confirm these tracks still are available. I do think those types of programs would be the best fit, though, if you are interested in the full PhD; just be warned that 1) those programs may only allow one fellow per class to pursue those tracks, so verify with the program directors of interest that you would be considered, 2) these programs will likely not "speed up" the graduate training, so still expect it to take 4-5 years and some prolonged years at sub-attending salary, 3) coursework post training is not fun, especially if you have a family, so be emotionally prepared to work much harder than your classmates for another 1-2 years (not even counting the thesis work).

Many, many programs will have tracks that lead to an MS degree which may theoretically be rolled into a PhD, although some institutions do not offer MS degrees in basic science tracks...so caveat emptor if you try that approach.

The most important question to answer is: what will the PhD add to your training experience? For some people it makes a lot of sense, but for other people it is just a feather in the cap that probably isn't worth it.

 

[CatFactorial]

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