Hiring Foreign Grads During the Saturation

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JamesL1585

JamesL1585

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Anyone notice trends here? I see this being controversial easily, but I am curious if people have noticed them taking a significant amount of jobs. Not foreign students who went to pharmacy school in the US, I'm more speaking of foreign trained pharmacist (Canada included) who come to the states take their foreign exams and are then hired on.
 
Cvs, rad, wag stop doing this back in 2010.
 
Ya this is not really happening much anymore. Americans can go the other way as well for jobs to Canada, its a protected profession under Nafta meaning the visa process is completed on the spot at a port of entry.
 
What's wrong with foreign pharmacists being hired?
 
Inia said:
What's wrong with foreign pharmacists being hired?
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There is no need for foreign pharmacists when there are thousands of domestic recent graduates that are desperate to pay off their loans.
 
tartesos said:
They will compete with you for the same jobs as long as they don't need a visa.
Say you both apply for a job, and you don't speak Spanish.
So if they speak Spanish In a Hispanic heavy area, and you don't, guess who's getting the job?
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I'm actually for it, there are only 4 international students out of 200 in my school. I would prefer if the ones who get trained here get jobs over grads from other countries.
 
My point of this is b/c in the area I'm in I see lots of internationally trained pharmacist working here, albeit they are older (mostly mid 30's) and have practiced here for 5-10 years. Just wondering if that's still happening.

Of course, my argument and concern lies with current saturation, it's not necessary to hire non-American TRAINED pharmacist b/c there is a cultural barrier that they'd have to learn both w/ patients and the health care system. Plus they don't have student loans if they do its a very minute amount compared to ours (talking 10% of avg pharmacist student loan debt). LoL frankly, a forein trained pharmacist can come to this country and be richer than most of us in a matter of months. Smart on their part, but does nothing to benefit the american health system when they can hire an american trained pharmacist the same who knows the system.

tartesos said:
They will compete with you for the same jobs as long as they don't need a visa.
Say you both apply for a job, and you don't speak Spanish.
So if they speak Spanish In a Hispanic heavy area, and you don't, guess who's getting the job?
Click to expand...

Good point. I'd vouch for this and say this is a great instance to have a foreign trained pharmacist.


stoichiometrist said:
There is no need for foreign pharmacists when there are thousands of domestic recent graduates that are desperate to pay off their loans.
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Agreed.

nycrxdream said:
I'm actually for it, there are only 4 international students out of 200 in my school. I would prefer if the ones who get trained here get jobs over grads from other countries.
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I agree with this 100%. They know the system, plus they have loans to pay off.
 
I agree with this 100%. They know the system, plus they have loans to pay off.
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Wrong, they have 0 loan. International student can't take loan and they have to get sponsored h1b visa. How do I know this? Because I am one of them... all chains stop sponsoring visa, the people you see working already on board with the company during the shortage using a work visa. Visa lasts 6 years total and then they will get gc to stay in USA permanently. PERM labor certification pretty much requires people who wants to get gc sponsorship to work in hard to staff area. So, you always see them in rural area.
 
Momus said:
Wrong, they have 0 loan. International student can't take loan and they have to get sponsored h1b visa. How do I know this? Because I am one of them... all chains stop sponsoring visa, the people you see working already on board with the company during the shortage using a work visa. Visa lasts 6 years total and then they will get gc to stay in USA permanently. PERM labor certification pretty much requires people who wants to get gc sponsorship to work in hard to staff area. So, you always see them in rural area.
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You miss read him.
He meant foreign guys that went to pharmacy school here. They do have loans( unless they could pay out of pocket. )
 
tartesos said:
You miss read him.
He meant foreign guys that went to pharmacy school here. They do have loans( unless they could pay out of pocket. )
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No, I did not miss read him. You did. http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...-can-international-students-get-financial-aid

If you come to USA as an international student, no one will give you a loan.

Exceptions are: (well, these are not really international students per se)
* You are a U.S. permanent resident with an Alien Registration Card (I-551).
* You are a conditional permanent resident with an I-551C card.
* You have an Arrival Departure Record (I-94) from the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) with any of the following designations:
o refugee
o asylum granted
o parolee
o victim of human trafficking
o T-Visa holder
o Cuban-Haitian entrant
 
I've worked for CVS for a long time and know people at Walgreens, hospitals etc and at least around Baltimore, and in most of Virginia I haven't really noticed this. I am exposed to a lot of pharmacists including floaters and pharamcists at other stores/districts who float for extra money. The only ones, such as one of the overnight pharmacists who graduated in Nigeria, tend to be older and were hired at least 5 or 6 years ago while there was more or a shortage in this area. I know a pharmacist who graduated from a South Korean pharmacy school and another one from Iran. They had both been working for at least 15 years. I of course believe we should put Americans first but in the context of when these people were hired there was a shortage here big time, and they were qualified and had to be licensed here anyway. A pharmacy school of any kind of university for that matter in a foreign country isn't necessarily inferior. I did work with a tech once who was a licensed pharmacist in Cuba and she said she didn't have to go to pharamcy school all over again in America but had to take some classes and get licensed here. She DID tell me far fewer drugs were available in Cuba due to the poverty and economic ruin caused by socialism there so there ARE medications that are available in America that are not available in Cuba.
 
I am surprised this is being written in this age. How would you feel if you relocate to a different country and not allowed to practice a proffession you love? foreign pharmacist are made to go through rigorous sets of exams and internship to get licensed here. Are you saying that after fulfilling all the necessary requirement they should not be employed? The process of getting licesed here in the states is so strict that most require an average of 3 yrs to get licensed.The emotional and pscychological effect is a different ball game. Internships are almost non existant since most coporate and some independent pharmacies require students from the states. Most times the foreign trained pharmacist is left at the mercy of few independent pharmacies that use them without paying a dime in other to get internship hours. I presume that is good enough sacrifice. The foreign trained pharmacist went to school and had tuition paid too.The color of the skin should not call for such outburst, not in this modern times. America is a great country get enlighted and widen your horizon from just what you see on Tv .
 
I'm not surprised, but a lot of people here seem to forget that a long time ago the USA succeeded as a country because of immigrants.
The only explanation why American graduates should be preferred that I see here is that they have loans to pay back. Is that a good reason? Even if you look at other threads on this forum you will notice that the majority of students going into a pharmacy school are going there because of money they can earn after graduation, not because they love pharmacy or want to help people. So many of you here complain that they have to deal with nasty customers. Why did you want to be a pharmacist, if you don't like customers? Why did you go into a profession where you are supposed to help people? I bet in other countries more students go into pharmacy or medicine in general because they want to help rather than they calculate how much they are going to earn.
About money, may be somebody will be able to explain why for example Voltaren Gel 1% here costs more than $30, and in my country (which is Russia) it costs $6. From the same manufacturer, plus we have generics available for it. I can tell you that prices, salaries and cost of medicine itself are being hold this high artificially in the states, which means that it is not natural. So if you are worried about competition and pharmacist salary going down - it is normal. It is how it is supposed to be.
Or may be you think that if somebody got his/her degree overseas it means that physiology, or anatomy, or pharmacology, or chemistry is different in this country? Plus if we are talking about the amount of medications, foreign pharmacists may know even more than domestic ones, just because in their countries there are medications that are not available here. Honestly I, being myself a foreign graduate, was surprised that in the states there are so few preventive medicines available. For example if you have varicose veins what would you do except wearing compression stockings?

And you may have a question about why foreign pharmacists move out of their countries and do not help their own people. Well I can answer about myself. I moved here because my family is here now. I'm a permanent resident, so what am I supposed to do now?
1)Chose another profession, having a pharmacy degree, just it order to get my education here?
2)Go into a pharmacy school here and study the same things all over again just in order to get my education here?
3)Pass equivalency exams, internship and get licensed here?

What would you do?
 
Inia said:
I'm not surprised, but a lot of people here seem to forget that a long time ago the USA succeeded as a country because of immigrants.
The only explanation why American graduates should be preferred that I see here is that they have loans to pay back. Is that a good reason? Even if you look at other threads on this forum you will notice that the majority of students going into a pharmacy school are going there because of money they can earn after graduation, not because they love pharmacy or want to help people. So many of you here complain that they have to deal with nasty customers. Why did you want to be a pharmacist, if you don't like customers? Why did you go into a profession where you are supposed to help people? I bet in other countries more students go into pharmacy or medicine in general because they want to help rather than they calculate how much they are going to earn.
About money, may be somebody will be able to explain why for example Voltaren Gel 1% here costs more than $30, and in my country (which is Russia) it costs $6. From the same manufacturer, plus we have generics available for it. I can tell you that prices, salaries and cost of medicine itself are being hold this high artificially in the states, which means that it is not natural. So if you are worried about competition and pharmacist salary going down - it is normal. It is how it is supposed to be.
Or may be you think that if somebody got his/her degree overseas it means that physiology, or anatomy, or pharmacology, or chemistry is different in this country? Plus if we are talking about the amount of medications, foreign pharmacists may know even more than domestic ones, just because in their countries there are medications that are not available here. Honestly I, being myself a foreign graduate, was surprised that in the states there are so few preventive medicines available. For example if you have varicose veins what would you do except wearing compression stockings?

And you may have a question about why foreign pharmacists move out of their countries and do not help their own people. Well I can answer about myself. I moved here because my family is here now. I'm a permanent resident, so what am I supposed to do now?
1)Chose another profession, having a pharmacy degree, just it order to get my education here?
2)Go into a pharmacy school here and study the same things all over again just in order to get my education here?
3)Pass equivalency exams, internship and get licensed here?

What would you do?
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All I can say is, I never complained about the customers. But i complain about the pharmacists when I'm in the customers shoes. We are indeed slow, so customers don't know that. Plus, in the states we are not treated as well. And as for helping people, I love therapeutics, I always think patient first. Hospital or retail it doesn't matter to me. Even if you know more medications, our guidelines are different, so we don't use other drugs from other countries because some of the drugs other countries use; may have more side effects.

We are focusing on preventive and public health ever since Obama care got passed. Non pharmacological therapy is also up there with exercise and eating right.

I would say go to school again, but then that would be too expensive. Also I know some americians go to Europe, bring back a spouse who makes 15 dollars a hour over at his country as a pharmacist and makes 50 dollars a hour over here. So about the money, it goes both ways. This profession is indeed going the wrong way.

As for my friend, I hope he finds a job even if he is a international student. He doesn't have loans and our pharmacy friends look down at him, while his family makes more than a pharmacist ever can in a lifetime. He is doing it because he loves pharmacy.
 
nycrxdream said:
Even if you know more medications, our guidelines are different, so we don't use other drugs from other countries because some of the drugs other countries use; may have more side effects.
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If you do not use them it does not mean that other people in the states do not use them. Do you know how many immigrants there are in the country?

nycrxdream said:
We are focusing on preventive and public health ever since Obama care got passed. Non pharmacological therapy is also up there with exercise and eating right.
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May be that is why America is one of the most obese countries in the world, or U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world? Or may be that is why America is one of the countries where they will not pay attention to a pregnant woman unless she has already had 2 miscarriages? Or may be that is why diabetics here prefer taking an additional pill instead of following the diet? Or may be because of that the states are on a top of the list, with 9.6% of the population experiencing bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder or chronic minor depression over the course of a year?

nycrxdream said:
I would say go to school again, but then that would be too expensive. Also I know some americians go to Europe, bring back a spouse who makes 15 dollars a hour over at his country as a pharmacist and makes 50 dollars a hour over here. So about the money, it goes both ways. This profession is indeed going the wrong way.
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Sure. That is true, if you want to spend your whole life living with somebody just because he/she is a pharmacist who is going to make $50/hour instead of $15/hour. Sounds like a good reason to marry.

So, if you were me you would go to school owning 200K (I live in LA area) + 4 additional years (plus my 6 years of pharmacy school) to study what you mostly already know? Does not sound too logical for me.
 
Inia said:
If you do not use them it does not mean that other people in the states do not use them. Do you know how many immigrants there are in the country?



May be that is why America is one of the most obese countries in the world, or U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world? Or may be that is why America is one of the countries where they will not pay attention to a pregnant woman unless she has already had 2 miscarriages? Or may be that is why diabetics here prefer taking an additional pill instead of following the diet? Or may be because of that the states are on a top of the list, with 9.6% of the population experiencing bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder or chronic minor depression over the course of a year?


Sure. That is true, if you want to spend your whole life living with somebody just because he/she is a pharmacist who is going to make $50/hour instead of $15/hour. Sounds like a good reason to marry.

So, if you were me you would go to school owning 200K (I live in LA area) + 4 additional years (plus my 6 years of pharmacy school) to study what you mostly already know? Does not sound too logical for me.
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We do not use them, because we can not order them. Honestly some of the HIV drugs we are using now arenot the older ones being used in Africa.

Some of the other drugs will cause impairment and disability from other guidelines in other countries. Or we just can not get our hands on them, practice is different here, even service is different. America thinks of Pharmacy as fast food while in other countries they dont.

America is also more business orientated and the companies dont care about the pharmacist. We have one goal in mind, pop out scripts. You cant really compare foreign countries to America.

All your points are pretty much invalid, because I spend the last year in therapeutics learning all about pregnancies and treatment for them. HIV patients with pregnancy. STD patients with pregnancy, and multiple diseases + treatment with pregnancies. You like to think your country is better but it really isnt, what you think the Doctor is doing? not having patients see their nutritionist? their PT? organizing a diet plan?

If they arent doing it? shouldnt it be your job as well? all I hear is complaining, but nothing about actually targetting the problem, which is what Ive been taught in school. Nurses and other health care professionals are also educating patients now.

You also cant judge diabetics, because exercising could be hard for the the patients. Its why on different guidelines for obesity we try to have them exercise first, then as 2nd line, have them take drugs. You are assuming wrong things about America and what we are being taught in our profession... or maybe my school is just different.

We are obese because of the access of food has increased, and we are driving more with less exercises... you cant really judge...

Also preventive care is in place because the government is running out of money. Not because all those things you list, that's why all of us is getting less money through insurance.
 
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tartesos said:
As a note In price disparity, synthroid... In Dominican Republic a 3 month supply of it costs less than my insurance copay( 64 $).
That's just wrong. Same pill!!
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For DAW, that's not too far off. I think I usually see around $20-25/month. If you just went with the generic it would be cheaper.
 
You would be surprised how many patients use medications from different countries. They either bring them or order on-line.

"Some of the other drugs will cause impairment and disability from other guidelines in other countries."

Almost any medication can do that. The fact is that if you compare amounts of money spend on health care related expenditures in the states and for example in Europe and quality of care you will see that here they are not spend wisely here. This btw includes a pharmacist salary. And this more than explains why medications are that expensive here. You can buy the same medication 2-3 times as cheap in other countries. (Same brand, same manufacturer)

Anyway it is not about healthcare system. In general high-qualified immigrants benefit the country, the same is true about competition. So, I do not see any good reason why an immigrant (foreign-trained) should not get a job.


ps. when do you think an ob doctor is going to check if the woman has low progesterone level in the 1st trimester? I can answer you. Normally after 2 miscarriages. Is it normal?
 
Inia said:
You would be surprised how many patients use medications from different countries. They either bring them or order on-line.

"Some of the other drugs will cause impairment and disability from other guidelines in other countries."

Almost any medication can do that. The fact is that if you compare amounts of money spend on health care related expenditures in the states and for example in Europe and quality of care you will see that here they are not spend wisely here. This btw includes a pharmacist salary. And this more than explains why medications are that expensive here. You can buy the same medication 2-3 times as cheap in other countries. (Same brand, same manufacturer)

Anyway it is not about healthcare system. In general high-qualified immigrants benefit the country, the same is true about competition. So, I do not see any good reason why an immigrant (foreign-trained) should not get a job.


ps. when do you think an ob doctor is going to check if the woman has low progesterone level in the 1st trimester? I can answer you. Normally after 2 miscarriages. Is it normal?
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No this isn't the case. Go look at the profits of the drug companies, hospitals and medical device manufacturer's. US health care is a lark, they claim free market but you do not have a choice in many instances and the general public has no expertise or reasonable alternatives to make decisions. Pharmacists salaries is a smoke screen to point to why drugs cost so much, its just a distraction pharmacies work on small margins these days and are just the middle men. The profit margins of the 3 industries I just listed are the highest of any industries in the USA, yet the politicians and the media focuses on who should pay for what rather than tackling the actual real issues of how these industries charge ridiculous amounts and prey on the most desperate people.
 
I have a friend that's not a citizen that went to my pharmacy school, and he can't land any type of work. Almost every single person in my class has a job or residency lined up after we graduate, but he can't find anything. I feel really bad for him. I think he's going to do an MBA program to stay longer. 🙁
 
I don't get all the comparison about drug prices here... I'm pretty sure you can buy an orange a lot cheaper in Cuba too... I think you can just get about anything cheaper in Cuba. All those arguments doesn't make any sense to me.
 
GoldfishPharmD said:
I have a friend that's not a citizen that went to my pharmacy school, and he can't land any type of work. Almost every single person in my class has a job or residency lined up after we graduate, but he can't find anything. I feel really bad for him. I think he's going to do an MBA program to stay longer. 🙁
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Tell him this, date a citizen in mba program, and marry her. No one is going to hire him even after he finishes mba. He is only delaying the inevitable if his contigency plan is to get mba. Or, do medical school instead, doctors are in demand and he will 100% get sponsorship. This is not 2006 where every international student who comes here to get Pharm. D gets a H1B sponsorship and eventually a green card. He needs to secure his own gc. He'll thank you later.
 
Momus said:
Tell him this, date a citizen in mba program, and marry her. No one is going to hire him even after he finishes mba. He is only delaying the inevitable if his contigency plan is to get mba. Or, do medical school instead, doctors are in demand and he will 100% get sponsorship. This is not 2006 where every international student who comes here to get Pharm. D gets a H1B sponsorship and eventually a green card. He needs to secure his own gc. He'll thank you later.
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Yeah, he knows he's just delaying. I don't know what his ultimate goal is. I think we've all jokingly/seriously told him he needs to find an American wife to get a green card. He tried for medical school before pharmacy school and I guess it didn't pan out. I really hate that he spent so much time, energy, and money for his degree and he can't use it. 🙁
 
wucool33 said:
I don't get all the comparison about drug prices here... I'm pretty sure you can buy an orange a lot cheaper in Cuba too... I think you can just get about anything cheaper in Cuba. All those arguments doesn't make any sense to me.
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Here we go. Why do you think an orange in the states should be more expensive than an orange in Cuba?
 
Inia said:
Here we go. Why do you think an orange in the states should be more expensive than an orange in Cuba?
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Why is your iPhone made in China?
 
Inia said:
Here we go. Why do you think an orange in the states should be more expensive than an orange in Cuba?
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Is this a serious question? I mean did an educated person seriously just ask this? Wow...
 
wucool33 said:
Is this a serious question? I mean did an educated person seriously just ask this? Wow...
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If you grew up in communism or shortly thereafter, as Inia likely did, it's probably a legitimate question. For others, it would be a silly question. A lot of people people with that background really don't seem to ever fully square up with our capitalistic society or the way we understand the world (or sometimes they become extremists to the other end of the spectrum...a la Ayn Rand). Good or bad, it is what it is.
 
Inia said:
Here we go. Why do you think an orange in the states should be more expensive than an orange in Cuba?
Click to expand...

The answer is supply vs. demand.

An orange is more expensive in the United States because a delicious, juicy, navel orange can command a price of $1USD each. The American consumer will pay that much for one and the grocery store knows it and the orange suppliers know it. An orange does not cost the equivalent of $1USD (27 Cuban pesos) in Cuba because it would not sell at that price, the crop would rot, the grocery store would not purchase the orange from the supplier at that cost, and the orange supplier could not sell its crop.
 
wucool33 said:
Is this a serious question? I mean did an educated person seriously just ask this? Wow...
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Yes. I am not asking WHY it is. I am asking why it SHOUD be like that.

The answer is supply vs. demand.
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The same answer is when you talk about pharmacy. If there are too many pharmacists the salary is going down, which is favorable to the market (in "our capitalistic society", right?) So why to cry about all new schools and foreign pharmacists. The same thing is about my iPhone, which I don't have, it is made in China because somebody very "capitalistic" was thinking: "Why to pay incredible taxes and at least a minimum wage here, if in China I can get it done for $1/hour?"
 
Inia said:
Yes. I am not asking WHY it is. I am asking why it SHOUD be like that.



The same answer is when you talk about pharmacy. If there are too many pharmacists the salary is going down, which is favorable to the market (in "our capitalistic society", right?) So why to cry about all new schools and foreign pharmacists. The same thing is about my iPhone, which I don't have, it is made in China because somebody very "capitalistic" was thinking: "Why to pay incredible taxes and at least a minimum wage here, if in China I can get it done for $1/hour?"
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Yes, that is true to a point. Salaries are sticky somewhat. What you will notice is inflation creep, newer employees receiving lower offers, etc. It's unlikely---but not impossible---a nominal salary reduction would occur, due to office morale, employee engagement, etc.
 
Inia said:
Yes. I am not asking WHY it is. I am asking why it SHOUD be like that.
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Because it's due to many factors, like supply/demand, standard of living, etc etc. The whole point is comparing the cost of something between two countries doesn't make any sense, especially between a 1st and a 3rd world country. Even if you do compare them, you can't just look at the cost at face value. You also have to adjust it for the value of a dollar in those two places.
 
wucool33 said:
Because it's due to many factors, like supply/demand, standard of living, etc etc. The whole point is comparing the cost of something between two countries doesn't make any sense, especially between a 1st and a 3rd world country. Even if you do compare them, you can't just look at the cost at face value. You also have to adjust it for the value of a dollar in those two places.
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Comparing the cost in two countries very much does make sense for some factors but not for others. Cost of production can be different, but thats just one factor that influences a drugs price, and the normal supply and demand curve doesn't hold up for many health care expenses when you are talking about a commodity that is necessary for you to continue living and in some cases does not have a reasonable substitute. Drug companies have made claims for years that they need to sell a drug at X price to make a profit, yet the same companies are selling the same medications at much lower prices in other first world countries exposes those claims as lies. Just like hospitals claiming they lose money servicing medicare patients, yet you see lots of hospitals popping up advertising and courting medicare patients because they do make money on those patients. As an industry they go out of their way to hide that and hide the massive profit margins they enjoy partially for the same reasons that drug companies do, they have much more liberty to set prices because they are not subject to the same supply demand curve as other commodities.
 
iamaninja said:
Comparing the cost in two countries very much does make sense for some factors but not for others. Cost of production can be different, but thats just one factor that influences a drugs price, and the normal supply and demand curve doesn't hold up for many health care expenses when you are talking about a commodity that is necessary for you to continue living and in some cases does not have a reasonable substitute. Drug companies have made claims for years that they need to sell a drug at X price to make a profit, yet the same companies are selling the same medications at much lower prices in other first world countries exposes those claims as lies. Just like hospitals claiming they lose money servicing medicare patients, yet you see lots of hospitals popping up advertising and courting medicare patients because they do make money on those patients. As an industry they go out of their way to hide that and hide the massive profit margins they enjoy partially for the same reasons that drug companies do, they have much more liberty to set prices because they are not subject to the same supply demand curve as other commodities.
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No, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter if you are talking about drugs or anything else. It's not about who's making a profit or how much. Like you said, there are many factors influencing the cost of a product, so you literally can't make that kind of comparison.
 
wucool33 said:
No, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter if you are talking about drugs or anything else. It's not about who's making a profit or how much. Like you said, there are many factors influencing the cost of a product, so you literally can't make that kind of comparison.
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When you are talking about why drugs cost so much, yes it is about whos making a profit or how much. Do you really think the cancer meds that cost 100k for a course is due to cost of production? Of course it doesn't make sense to try and figure out why prices are set where they are, since there is no logical trend to follow other than maxing profits, but if you want to look for solutions or sustainable ways to fix healthcare costs, then ya comparing to other similar countries is a great place to start.
 
awval999 said:
The answer is supply vs. demand.

An orange is more expensive in the United States because a delicious, juicy, navel orange can command a price of $1USD each. The American consumer will pay that much for one and the grocery store knows it and the orange suppliers know it. An orange does not cost the equivalent of $1USD (27 Cuban pesos) in Cuba because it would not sell at that price, the crop would rot, the grocery store would not purchase the orange from the supplier at that cost, and the orange supplier could not sell its crop.
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You can just pick them off a tree for free if you're in Cuba. Apples would probably be harder to get there. 🙄
 
If the drug or any of the excipients are made abroad, exchange rates can affect prices as well.

I know in Europe there are supply problems when there are fluctuations in EUR/GBP for example. When the Euro is strong the big companies will sell to Europe causing supply problems in the UK.

Astra/Zeneca, GSK, and Pfizer are the major protagonists of these dastardly schemes all on the name of profit.

The UK has had supply problems with Symbicort, Cardura XL, Celebrex and Ventolin Products over the past few years while they have been freely available just across the English Channel 30 miles away where the Euro is used as currency.
 
wow this is a great thread and post. Inia and Radio Frequency make some great points and i think these types of subjects should get more play in pharmacy journals but its pretty controversial. wage controls, price controls, economic rent-seeking and inflation are terrible things when governments around the world do this.....it happens everywhere especially here with re-importation bans in the pharma industry.....I know this for a fact being from Canada once all the provinces decided to implement price controls onto the back of generic manufacturers and cut down on generic rebates to pharmacies all of a sudden we saw an explosion of "manufacturer cannot supply". as for hiring a foreign trained pharmacist I am one about to hopefully enter the job market and I certainly hope that only my job experience and attitude are the reasons why I'd get hired....not some affirmative action policy because I am a person of color or because I speak a language that the natives speak. it is a sad yet necessary discussion about why qualified American workers can't find decent jobs in any field.....supply and demand is definitely important but the cost of labor sold and economic inflation are terrible factors working against us here.....we sell our labor to an employer so if he wants a foreign grad willing to take $5 less per hour he will take it so long as the potential employee is willing to offer it a cheaper rate. similarly chinese workers sell their labor for pennies on the dollar to make our i-gizmos
 
okczol said:
we sell our labor to an employer so if he wants a foreign grad willing to take $5 less per hour he will take it so long as the potential employee is willing to offer it a cheaper rate. similarly chinese workers sell their labor for pennies on the dollar to make our i-gizmos
Click to expand...

This isn't China, ever heard of "prevailing wage"?
 
Hi there thanks for the geography lesson but I don't want to debate little things because overall I'm just really, really concerned and worried for the future prosperity and wealth of American skilled workers. As for your wiki link the article itself is labeled as being biased and unbalanced so I won't quote it here. As for the concept of "prevailing wages" that is just another fancy way of saying intervention by the powers that be. Anytime there is an intervention its bad, bad, bad news because it distorts prices and risk - just look at wage, price, and rent controls as classic examples. Inia briefly touched on this topic earlier about the price of an orange. You mentioned China and you are right we are lucky to be here because over there government intervention creates free trade zones where companies like Apple are given free reign to slave drive laborers, house them in rat holes, and keep them from dying with suicide nets. Interventions closer to home? Look at the long, long lines of panicked people waiting to pump gas after Hurricane Sandy. Why was this? Answer is not simple but a major reason was because of regulated prices for fuel....everyone has to pay the same price so everyone has to get in line. If price gouging occurred those stations would suffer and if discounting occurred those stations would profit. Think about Argentina today with food price controls in their Wal-Marts or trying to get a subsidized apartment in NYC - the building owner has no incentive to upkeep the place because he is forced to only accept a certain amount in rent so its no wonder why the waiting lists for such places are years long. Similarly, pharmacy employers or any other employer in today's market will look at the glut of qualified candidates and see that if they are all equally competent to do the job then one of the major deciding factors will be the offering rate of labor by the employee. I don't care how many letters you have behind your name or how much student debt you have - if the next 2 guys are equally qualified and willing to take the job at $3 less per hour AND work part-time (sparing the need for benefits) you have replaced one FTE (many employers are contemplating this ahead of Obamacare and its guaranteed the government will use it to hype job numbers in the future). Again, I apologize if I am conflating several issues and I don't claim to be any sort of expert on anything I'm just hella scared about going out into this job market and securing a steady job. Peace.
 
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