Hirining your own PT? yes or no?

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Would it make sense financially to hire your own in house PT. What I mean, is it possible for one pain guy to generate enough volume to profit from having your own PT while at the same time benefiting your patients by having them come to one place, and overseeing their therapy?

 

[mille125]

Would it make sense financially to hire your own in house PT. What I mean, is it possible for one pain guy to generate enough volume to profit from having your own PT while at the same time benefiting your patients by having them come to one place, and overseeing their therapy?

State law may have the last say here. This is not allowed in some states. PT is a hard business to do well in by yourself. You would be better off finding a group of orthopedists and other doctors to help establish a new clinic. I do know what I am talking about here because I own a PT clinic.

 

[Jeff05]

State law may have the last say here. This is not allowed in some states. PT is a hard business to do well in by yourself. You would be better off finding a group of orthopedists and other doctors to help establish a new clinic. I do know what I am talking about here because I own a PT clinic.

. lets say have 4 PTs (practice owned by 4 physicians, very high volume). what is the (passive) income potential per PT after salary/benefits/office space/etc.?

 

[lobelsteve]

. lets say have 4 PTs (practice owned by 4 physicians, very high volume). what is the (passive) income potential per PT after salary/benefits/office space/etc.?

Not as good as franchising a Subway. 😀

 

[Jcm800]

Not as good as franchising a Subway. 😀

i agree. 7 dollar subs!

 

[pmrmd]

to the O.P.: you are a medical student so you have some time to choose your field. if you go the anesthesia route, you may not get the MSK background that is required to do the therapy yourself. through the PMR route, you definitely do.

i do therapy in my office every day. it can be a profitable business. i have it done the way i want it done. that doesn't happen if you have a p.t. as they will insist on doing things the way they think its best, though you may not agree.

 

[Jcm800]

to the O.P.: you are a medical student so you have some time to choose your field. if you go the anesthesia route, you may not get the MSK background that is required to do the therapy yourself. through the PMR route, you definitely do.

i do therapy in my office every day. it can be a profitable business. i have it done the way i want it done. that doesn't happen if you have a p.t. as they will insist on doing things the way they think its best, though you may not agree.

you actually do the therapy? I am just curious. Is time-effective for you?

but if you do anesthesia, you can learn to put them to sleep, so they will quite asking you for vicodin

 

[paindoc2]

Would it make sense financially to hire your own in house PT. What I mean, is it possible for one pain guy to generate enough volume to profit from having your own PT while at the same time benefiting your patients by having them come to one place, and overseeing their therapy?

Depending on your energy level, you have to decide how broad you want your practice to be. It's enough headache for me to work on my interventional pain referral base and all the logistics that come with that. Of course, if you focus on a minimally interventional practice with things like trigger points and joint injections, maybe do some EMGs, have an acupuncturist and physical therapist on staff, you could probably do well with that and be a happy camper. But, for me, I would definitely have to stop dealing with the stress (and reward) that comes with interventional pain. Being a referring doc and reaping the financial benefits of therapy will also put you in an akward (some would say favorable) position. For me, it's just more headache...

 

[drusso]

You can have PT's in your office and bill "incident to" your physician service. Financially, it varies upon your payor mix. When I've run the numbers, it's been a push. Consider having certified athletic trainers instead. In some states, they can bill for their services in a physician's office and are less expensive than PT's.

Other upsides: Tighter control over your exercise Rx's, multidisciplinary marketing opportunities, improved patient access to services.

 

[Disciple]

Consider having certified athletic trainers instead. In some states, they can bill for their services in a physician's office and are less expensive than PT's.

Would use be using the same CPT codes typical used for Physical Therapy performed or supervised by a Physical Therapist?

If not, that may be OK for sports injuries and the simpler Occ Med cases, but not for many of the patients that will be referred from a chronic pain clinic.

 

[pmrmd]

you actually do the therapy? I am just curious. Is time-effective for you?

but if you do anesthesia, you can learn to put them to sleep, so they will quite asking you for vicodin

sorry. no not personally. all incident-to stuff, except i have to be a little more interactive on medicare folks.

 

[Tenacious DO]

I have been wondering about this for a while now. I have been a PT for a number of years, ran my own practice, worked in a variety of settings, on & on & on. A few years ago I crossed over to the dark side (med school) and I am now in the process of interviewing for a PM&R residency. I plan on working in MSK/Pain and I am well aware of the strengths & limitations of PT from a patient care & financial standpoint.

I am wondering if anyone knows of Docs that have gone from PT-->MD/DO and if/how they have continued to use their PT License. Most that I know have let their license PT lapse. I am sure there are various state laws/Stark Laws that come into play.

I have considered the idea of having a PT Assistant or ATC for exercise prescription…I am not sure if it would be better to act as a supervising physician or supervising physical therapist. If anyone has played these games before, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks.
TD

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

I had a PT in my old office. Made a small profit, biggest problem was her salary ($50/hr + benefits) and chronic pain pts not showing up 1/3 of the time. It was a very similar situation for having my own counselor in the office (LPC).

 

[Mister Mxyzptlk]

It's a hard way to make money. A lot of the patients balk at the repeated co-pays and they often cite work schedule issues.

Introducing my new product, PT-IN-A-BOX, for the do-it-yourself crowd. You get an exercise book, a hot pack, a cold pack, and a TENS unit, which unfortunately is all many PT places seem to do. Only $500 for the whole package.

 

[Doctodd]

I have been wondering about this for a while now. I have been a PT for a number of years, ran my own practice, worked in a variety of settings, on & on & on. A few years ago I crossed over to the dark side (med school) and I am now in the process of interviewing for a PM&R residency. I plan on working in MSK/Pain and I am well aware of the strengths & limitations of PT from a patient care & financial standpoint.

I am wondering if anyone knows of Docs that have gone from PT-->MD/DO and if/how they have continued to use their PT License. Most that I know have let their license PT lapse. I am sure there are various state laws/Stark Laws that come into play.

I have considered the idea of having a PT Assistant or ATC for exercise prescription…I am not sure if it would be better to act as a supervising physician or supervising physical therapist. If anyone has played these games before, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks.
TD

if you could explain what u mean by the "dark side" im sure we would all like to get in on the inside joke you guys have. I have some very close friends who are PT's and im not aware of any dark side, but you can bet ill ask them today. 😀

 

[Tenacious DO]

if you could explain what u mean by the "dark side" im sure we would all like to get in on the inside joke you guys have. I have some very close friends who are PT's and im not aware of any dark side, but you can bet ill ask them today. 😀

No disrespect intended. It stems from the comments I have heard after a PT (or any professional) chooses to go in a different direction. In my case, most of my fellow PT’s were rather positive and encouraging, but a select few seemed to see my actions as bit of a betrayal of the profession.