Holy crap this is intense..

[FiremedicMike]

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Ok, maybe taking intro to biology as an online course was a bad idea. Being 30, out of science classes since the ninth grade, this is quite an undertaking.

I imagine this course would have been a lot easier in a classroom, teaching myself cellular biology, calvin and krebs cycles, a touch of physics and a touch of chemistry is a daunting task.

I got a 92 on the first quiz and an 86 on the first exam 😡, but I'm working double time to study harder.

(go ahead, make fun of me for struggling through intro to bio, but seriously, I remember biology class from high school being about rats and worms.. I don't remember touching much on cells at all )

 

[mommy2three]

even though you are doing the online version, you should still have access to the tutoring center and be able to get some help that way.
online courses are challenging....i would imagine it is doubly so if you have not had a course in a while.
also, perhaps contact the professor and see if you can come in for office hours. if you do make sure you come in with a list of specific questions that you do not understand and need extra clarification on. also ask if it is possible to switch to a reg classroom based class vs the online version.
i imagine as you get going you will be able to do more online coursework...get your feet wet and get your brain thinking bio again 🙂

 

[phospho]

Ok, maybe taking intro to biology as an online course was a bad idea. Being 30, out of science classes since the ninth grade, this is quite an undertaking.

I imagine this course would have been a lot easier in a classroom, teaching myself cellular biology, calvin and krebs cycles, a touch of physics and a touch of chemistry is a daunting task.

I got a 92 on the first quiz and an 86 on the first exam 😡, but I'm working double time to study harder.

(go ahead, make fun of me for struggling through intro to bio, but seriously, I remember biology class from high school being about rats and worms.. I don't remember touching much on cells at all )

I know exactly how you feel. Even if you're studying 24/7, I promise you it gets easier. Stop telling yourself it's "only" intro to bio, because most people struggle with it. Use wikipedia, use your textbook, use google, use SDN... use anything, but do what you gotta do. For what it's worth, I got a C on my very first exam.

I'm a huge fan of online classes. You can do well and they don't have to be harder than the regular ones if you know what you're doing. As mentioned above, use the office hours, campus tutoring, or anything offered to you.

Keep your head up! 🙂

 

[FiremedicMike]

Thanks for the encouragement, I actually just took a quiz and got 29/30, which still bugs me because I went through every question 3x, not really sure what I missed <shrug>

I'll get through this, I'm just used to things clicking a lot faster. I'll tell you what class I really hate right now is statistics. It's barely a math class and much more of a terminology class, it's boring and frustrating all at the same time. In fairness though I'm not really giving it as much attention as I should be..

I like math problems, not setting up graphs and identifying means and standard deviations <bleh>

 

[DrTroll]

Statistics is all about practice, if you do enough problems, you'll be in good shape.

When I was taking Biology, the textbook's online resources saved me. It offered a lot of animations and self-testing questions to see if I really understand the material. See if you textbook have similar options, it could help.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Ok, maybe taking intro to biology as an online course was a bad idea. Being 30, out of science classes since the ninth grade, this is quite an undertaking.

I imagine this course would have been a lot easier in a classroom, teaching myself cellular biology, calvin and krebs cycles, a touch of physics and a touch of chemistry is a daunting task.

I got a 92 on the first quiz and an 86 on the first exam 😡, but I'm working double time to study harder.

(go ahead, make fun of me for struggling through intro to bio, but seriously, I remember biology class from high school being about rats and worms.. I don't remember touching much on cells at all )

Some teachers make their online classes much harder than the in-class equivalent.

And and "Intro" class can be murder, because it's the first time that you are introduced to the subject. Intro to Biology is especially dangerous this way, because some teachers are frustrated at teaching such a low-level class. They want to teach cell bio, genetics, zoology, and biochemistry, so they use this class to do more than "introduce" these subjects. You suddenly find yourself working high level genetics problems one week and defining the structures of the nuclear pores the next.

 

[CookDeRosa]

Ok, maybe taking intro to biology as an online course was a bad idea. Being 30, out of science classes since the ninth grade, this is quite an undertaking.

I imagine this course would have been a lot easier in a classroom, teaching myself cellular biology, calvin and krebs cycles, a touch of physics and a touch of chemistry is a daunting task.

I got a 92 on the first quiz and an 86 on the first exam 😡, but I'm working double time to study harder.

(go ahead, make fun of me for struggling through intro to bio, but seriously, I remember biology class from high school being about rats and worms.. I don't remember touching much on cells at all )

>>

Ohhh no, I'm not making fun of you!
I took both intros (intro chem and intro biology) too. It had been 20+ years since taking high school science. *I also took mine online.

I remember saying "I love biology" before class started. Turns out, that what I love is called 6th grade science! I love incubating eggs and ant farms and growing plants and playing with plastic body organs (no, really.) Yeah. It's not that. By about chapter 3 I was asking "what the heck am I getting myself into?"

I am waiting for science to become intuitive. It must. I took the intros because I want to be ready for the generals. One thing I will say about intros, they are a little like a hodge-podge of topics that a student isn't necessarily ready to grasp. Having done intros in other fields, I think rather than really teaching an introduction- they say "ok, we only have 1 semester instead of 1 year, so just learn every 3rd chapter!" LOL as if. My intro chem teacher uses the same book for gen chem, we just skipped over stuff. Talk about confusing.

If you want a good resource, google Khan Academy. It's free online lectures lasting about 10 minutes- on all the premed science topics. After the second or third lecture, Sal became my "favorite teacher" and I use him often!

Good luck! I'm right there with you.

 

[Mr Karatepants]

Not to be a debbie downer but - have you looked into med school policies for online courses? I feel like I've heard somewhere that many don't accept them for the prereqs...

 

[eablackwell]

Not to be a debbie downer but - have you looked into med school policies for online courses? I feel like I've heard somewhere that many don't accept them for the prereqs...

If it's intro bio, it's probably not the bio 1 he needs, but a leadup to it. at least that's what intro bio was at my school. Also, if you are taking it through a state school and a lab component is included, it is usually coded exactly the same as an in person class. So unless you go into an interview and say, "hi, I'm so and so, and I took bio online." they'd never know. However, if they ask for some reason, then you should tell the truth. That's why I made sure all my prereqs were face to face even though my school offered some via Internet.

 

[CookDeRosa]

Not to be a debbie downer but - have you looked into med school policies for online courses? I feel like I've heard somewhere that many don't accept them for the prereqs...

>>

Intro classes are not premed classes.

 

[mspeedwagon]

There are definitely schools that will NOT accept any online courses as pre-reqs (Yale and U of FL come to mind immediately). However, after I contacted several schools, I've found this to be more the exception than the rule. There are quite a few willing to accept online courses at accredited institutes.

Here is a good article to read: http://www.brighthub.com/education/online-learning/articles/61833.aspx

Not to be a debbie downer but - have you looked into med school policies for online courses? I feel like I've heard somewhere that many don't accept them for the prereqs...

 

[CookDeRosa]

There are definitely schools that will NOT accept any online courses as pre-reqs (Yale and U of FL come to mind immediately). However, after I contacted several schools, I've found this to be more the exception than the rule. There are quite a few willing to accept online courses at accredited institutes.

Here is a good article to read: http://www.brighthub.com/education/online-learning/articles/61833.aspx

>>


Even in that article it buys the myth that all online science don't have labs- many do. I don't mean the computer software sim labs, I mean labs that you complete at home (or on campus) and submit photos/documents/etc via email. MANY DON'T too, so buyer beware. All of my labs have been done this way, where I complete at home and submit electronically. I went out of my way to find actual labs that I could submit my materials via distance instead of being present at a specific time on campus. The online sciences I have taken all used Hands On Labs (LabPaq) and consist of about 12 labs per course. You will definitely pay more because you have to buy everything- I bought 2 microscopes last year plus all smallwares, and the actual labs ingredients are expensive, usually about $250-$350 each...and it is a pain in the rear to document each step- photograph-label, etc and assemble all of this into a lab report (as opposed to just writing a lab report)...but until my local colleges start offering labs after midnight, it is what it is. As long as you are a good indy learner, it's fine. And from what I have read, half or more of med school students don't even go to lecture- so I don't see how this is different.

Course numbers are identical on my transcript btw.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Be careful, the below statement is NOT true for all schools; there are a few that clearly designate an online course on the transcript (UNE is NOT one of them). I'll post an example or two when I have some time.

Course numbers are identical on my transcript btw.

 

[FiremedicMike]

Just so we're all on the same page, I'm not taking my med school pre-reqs online, I'm taking my pre-reqs FOR my pre-reqs online, and I plan on taking as many lower level bio/phys/chem classes as I can to increase my odds of success in my actual pre-req classes. Also, I'm still working on my bachelors degree. I'm in the enviable position as a non-trad to have no prior poor GPA hanging over my head to overcome, so I plan on keeping this momentum going through admissions.

Once I get to the point of my pre-req classes, I'm still up in the air as to whether I'm going to take them at Ohio State or continue at the CC I'm at now, but either way I'm saving my vacation time so that I can take all the pre-reqs + labs while maintaining my fire job. CC is significantly cheaper and easier to schedule, but at the same time I'm trying to force the planets to align to maximize my chances for Ohio State.. Oh well we'll see when the time comes.

 

[UCF09]

FiremedicMike,

You are right on the money when you say that, "I'm in the enviable position as a non-trad to have no prior poor GPA hanging over my head..." I was in a similar position as you in regards to take pre-req's at a CC or University. I opted for the University. As far as I see it this is up to you. I would add this though, if you do take your pre-req's at a CC, I would suggest taking advanced coursework in biochem, genetics, neurobiology, etc.. to show the admissions committee that you can handle rigorous University level sciences. Keep it up! You can do it!

 

[HenriMatisse]

The first half of bio is all cellular and essential to understand the bigger picture in the end. I'm finishing up bio this month and its almost all anatomy and physiology. We're dissecting fetal pigs in the lab which totally rules compared to earth worms and starfish. My pig looks like a perfect ecorche while every other pig looks like its getting butchered. I guess four years of sculpture is paying off.

 

[CookDeRosa]

The first half of bio is all cellular and essential to understand the bigger picture in the end. I'm finishing up bio this month and its almost all anatomy and physiology. We're dissecting fetal pigs in the lab which totally rules compared to earth worms and starfish. My pig looks like a perfect ecorche while every other pig looks like its getting butchered. I guess four years of sculpture is paying off.

>>

LOL, me too. I've got 20 years as a chef. I've cut lots of meat I didn't think my teacher found it too amusing when I pointed out the tenderloin on my diagram!

 

[earthwalker7]

I know exactly how you feel. Even if you're studying 24/7, I promise you it gets easier. Stop telling yourself it's "only" intro to bio, because most people struggle with it. Use wikipedia, use your textbook, use google, use SDN... use anything, but do what you gotta do. For what it's worth, I got a C on my very first exam.

I'm a huge fan of online classes. You can do well and they don't have to be harder than the regular ones if you know what you're doing. As mentioned above, use the office hours, campus tutoring, or anything offered to you.

Keep your head up! 🙂

Hi, like this thread.

I am stationed overseas and wanted to take my courses online.
But I was told by the guy at the Harvard Extension postbac premed program that all the science courses had to be lab based and that online versions did not count.

Was he incorrect?
Would it actually be possible for me to take these courses online?
Bio, chem, ochem, etc.?
many thanks!
-m

 

[Nomadicus]

>>

LOL, me too. I've got 20 years as a chef. I've cut lots of meat I didn't think my teacher found it too amusing when I pointed out the tenderloin on my diagram!

LOL, that's awesome. Love it.

 

[FiremedicMike]

Hi, like this thread.

I am stationed overseas and wanted to take my courses online.
But I was told by the guy at the Harvard Extension postbac premed program that all the science courses had to be lab based and that online versions did not count.

Was he incorrect?
Would it actually be possible for me to take these courses online?
Bio, chem, ochem, etc.?
many thanks!
-m

Your upper level science classes will all have a lab component. I'm told there are programs out there where you can purchase lab equipment for your home, video tape your experiments and whatnot, and that counts.

Your lower level science classes which I'm in now are sometimes available online. Chem 100 and Phys 100 are both "hybrid" meaning I will do didactic work online and have to go to the campus for lab work.

Once I hit my upper level science courses, I'm doing full on traditional. From what I've gathered the upper level science courses are complicated enough that I'd rather have someone right in front of me explaining it rather than me figuring it out.


As an update to the thread, I got a 98% on exam 2 🙂. I just buckled down, took no shortcuts, read every word of every chapter, and took great notes. BTW Class average for that exam was 70%

 

[FiremedicMike]

Now if I could get off the internet and write this stupid 3pg paper for psychology which is due tomorrow. The object, be nice to everyone for a day and then write a paper about the reactions you received, be sure to cite relevant topics from class!

 

[CookDeRosa]

Hi, like this thread.

I am stationed overseas and wanted to take my courses online.
But I was told by the guy at the Harvard Extension postbac premed program that all the science courses had to be lab based and that online versions did not count.

Was he incorrect?
Would it actually be possible for me to take these courses online?
Bio, chem, ochem, etc.?
many thanks!
-m

Just don't mix up exactly what they are saying. You need labs. Some online courses have labs (on campus, at home, or computer based sim programs) and some online courses don't. *3 credits vs 4 credits is usually an indication that you are looking at a non-lab. Still you should find out ahead of time if the type of lab offered appeals to you. I looked for a long time before I decided to try an online lab- the school I enrolled at received awards for the development of their online sciences and was a pioneer in launching online sciences.

So, be sure the class is for science majors, that it is 4 credits, and that it has a lab. You will find some schools that forbid online courses (as mentioned here) but generally unless the course description or transcript says "online" they will appear identically on your transcript along side anything else you take.
I have taken many online sciences here: www.ocean.edu

Intro Biology and Intro Chem- both 4 credits and both had labs, but neither were premeds, these were pre- premeds.

Anatomy and Physiology 1 and 2- both were 4 credits and both had labs, but neither were premeds, these were on my list in case I end up in a nursing program. A lot of animal dissection (pig, cat, eye, kidney, brain, heart) but I would have liked a teacher on these two. Be prepared to store your specimens for 32 weeks- yes the SAME cat. Histology requires purchasing a microscope with digital camera attachment. Otherwise the virtual cadaver technology is fantastic.

Microbiology- 4 credits with lab. Not a premed, considered a bonus. You have to be OK with culturing things like e Coli in your home. You need a safe space for incubation, and refrigeration for storing your agars and broths (I say this because it might freak out a spouse!).

General Chem and General Bio- they offer 1 and 2 of both- all 4 credits, all with labs, all premeds. Again, you have to be ok with storing hazardous chemicals/flammables in your home.

Physics-both offered, both with labs, both algebra based. These require an off site proctor in your community for tests.

Organic- not offered at Ocean online, however you can do this at the University of New England College of Medicine *labs may be sims

Biochem- not offered at Ocean online, however you can do this at the University of New England College of Medicine

Lastly, the online labs are WAY more money than a generic community college lab- but the same or less than a university, so if cost is an issue you should be ready for sticker shock. The labs I'm taking are costing about $1000 each, I will have done 11 in all. 😱

Also, if you are not good at self teaching, you're going to have a really hard time. If, however, you are the kind of person who thinks sitting in class is (sometimes) a waste of time and you can learn just as much using the book and your own resourcefulness, then you'll love it.

 

[kristieb1]

I FEEL YOUR PAIN! Over the summer I took an introductory chemistry class online. It was the only chem class that could be taken as a pre-req to General Chemistry. It didn't have a lab.

I did really well the first half. A's on all my quizzes. The 2nd half of the class I really struggled. I passed with a C by the skin of my teeth.

I am scared stupid of Gen-Chem and O-Chem now.

One thing I know is that I will never take a science course online ever again! I've always done well with online classes (had plenty of them), but I needed to be able to ask questions and get my answers in real time. Not via email when the teacher finally got around to it!

Hang in there!

 

[clausewitz2]

It takes a very long time for anything about biology to become especially intuitive, and even then, biology isn't the sort of science where you can grasp a few basic principles and apply them to novel material in a really useful way. Biology (like a lot of medicine) is a lot of arbitrary facts about the world that we've worked out are more or less true-ish. Yes, there are overarching themes and some things work in similar, analogous sorts of ways, but even for really well-understood subfields of biology (molecular, for instance), there are dozens and dozens of mechanisms that you just kind of have to learn.

Physics is much easier if you're the kind of person who prefers to learn principles. Get maybe half a dozen under your belt, and suddenly you'll see that much of the subject reduces to "well, logically, it sort of HAS to work out like this." Experimentally-derived constants aside (usually given to you on exams). My experience was that I developed physical intuition very quickly, and after that I just had to be careful not to f*** up the math. Luckily, physicists tend to be a lot more chill about getting an answer numerically wrong, provided they can follow what you're doing; there is definitely truth in the old stereotype that in physics, everything is equal to 1 or 0 because it's easier that way.

Chemistry is a different beast. There are definitely principles, especially in gen chem, but it is a bit more of the biology flavor of "learn these things because they are true." This goes double for organic chemistry; many of the "explanations" in orgo will sound a bit like special pleading or ad hoc rationalizations (someone who is an organic chemist can correct me on this, but I don't get the sense that anyone pursues this subject with some kind of grand, beautiful mathematical theory, but rather constructs any theory on the basis of the fine-grained experimental results).

I also found it useful to approach gen chem as more of a chemistry-themed algebra class than anything else. Get really solid on the basic math, and then it won't be so hard to learn the concepts. If the math doesn't come very intuitively, it will definitely get in the way of your learning the bits of chemistry bolted on to it.

 

[clausewitz2]

Also for what it's worth despite aceing chem and physics, my first bio class was significantly harder to make good marks in than I thought it would be. This was partly due to the frustrated intro-level instructor syndrome mentioned above, I think.

Can't blame the guy. I think this class was all he got to teach. I'd go kind of crazy too.

 

[FiremedicMike]

Honestly so far the thing that's blowing my mind is all this factual information that we can't see. How did they figure out that the krebs cycle worked, how do we know that polymerase slides down one helix and back along the other.. I mean, we can't SEE this stuff happening..

Blows my mind..

 

[student1799]

>>

LOL, me too. I've got 20 years as a chef. I've cut lots of meat I didn't think my teacher found it too amusing when I pointed out the tenderloin on my diagram!

I've never been a chef, but I've been a really serious home cook for a similar amount of time. In med school anatomy, it can be both a blessing and a curse. I found that I was actually pretty good at the mechanical work of dissecting--which meant that I got stuck doing it a lot. I would have been better off spending more time ID'ing than dissecting.

There were some funny moments, though. At one point we were dissecting the mandible, which is pretty difficult, and I was having trouble disarticulating the jaw. One of the instructors (an MD with a phenomenal sense of humor) stopped by to help. She sized me up for a second and then asked, "You cook, right?" I nodded. "Well, do you know how to bone a chicken?"

Bingo. It took me about 3 minutes to do it after that.🙂

 

[ymcMD]

I've never been a chef, but I've been a really serious home cook for a similar amount of time. In med school anatomy, it can be both a blessing and a curse. I found that I was actually pretty good at the mechanical work of dissecting--which meant that I got stuck doing it a lot. I would have been better off spending more time ID'ing than dissecting.

There were some funny moments, though. At one point we were dissecting the mandible, which is pretty difficult, and I was having trouble disarticulating the jaw. One of the instructors (an MD with a phenomenal sense of humor) stopped by to help. She sized me up for a second and then asked, "You cook, right?" I nodded. "Well, do you know how to bone a chicken?"

Bingo. It took me about 3 minutes to do it after that.🙂

that is IT...Im getting to chicken boning tomorrow!!! LOL I had a similar experience in the dissecting part of my bio class. Everyone else's cat looked liked it had been ran over by a car and mine was a work of dissecting art 😀

 

[HenriMatisse]

Where does bacon come from? My professor said the extrnal and internal obliques, but wasn't sure. Also where does prochiutto (sp?) come from? I know it comes somewhere from the rear legs, biceps femoris maybe? In italy it's normal to see pig legs lining deli windows.

O and to make this post somewhat relevant, I just got a 97 on my Bio 3 midterm. I used typed notes and I found it really helpful compared to hand written notes. I still use a notebook to copy drawings and diagrams, but stick to the computer for the facts.

 

[CookDeRosa]

that is IT...Im getting to chicken boning tomorrow!!! LOL I had a similar experience in the dissecting part of my bio class. Everyone else's cat looked liked it had been ran over by a car and mine was a work of dissecting art 😀

LOL, it's not really the same with the animals I've dissected. The specimens all have the texture of cured meats, where fresh meats have slippery membranes between the muscle and skin. It's much easier to "dissect" fresh flesh. I found myself very annoyed at the texture of muscle and skin on my fetal pig and cat.

Are the cadavers in med school preserved in any way, or are they fresh? Sorry if that's a weird question!!

 

[CookDeRosa]

Where does bacon come from? My professor said the extrnal and internal obliques, but wasn't sure. Also where does prochiutto (sp?) come from? I know it comes somewhere from the rear legs, biceps femoris maybe? In italy it's normal to see pig legs lining deli windows.

O and to make this post somewhat relevant, I just got a 97 on my Bio 3 midterm. I used typed notes and I found it really helpful compared to hand written notes. I still use a notebook to copy drawings and diagrams, but stick to the computer for the facts.

LOL, I can't believe I'm posting this, but here ya go!
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=XQBsTP_EBILhnAfEwNSFAw&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAg

 

[student1799]

Are the cadavers in med school preserved in any way, or are they fresh?

Of course they're preserved--they've been embalmed before you work on them. Otherwise they would deteriorate VERY rapidly ...

 

[CookDeRosa]

Of course they're preserved--they've been embalmed before you work on them. Otherwise they would deteriorate VERY rapidly ...

Don't say "of course" like I should know. 😕 I can get fish TOMORROW in Illinois that is swimming in Hawaii TODAY. Plus, you can keep fresh beef (aged) for a long long time. I've kept it for over 6 weeks, so it doesn't seem impossible to me that you might have "fresh" specimens.
Besides, I read about Vesalus (sp?) and the other old school fathers of medicine, they had cadavers for AGES and AGES without preservation.

 

[student1799]

you can keep fresh beef (aged) for a long long time. I've kept it for over 6 weeks, so it doesn't seem impossible to me that you might have "fresh" specimens.

But that only works when your specimens are REFRIGERATED. Cadavers in medical school are not refrigerated. They sit out on tables in the lab for the entire length of the anatomy course, which is 12 weeks at my school. There is no way they would keep for that long without preservatives.

Besides, I read about Vesalus (sp?) and the other old school fathers of medicine, they had cadavers for AGES and AGES without preservation.

I don't know exactly how Vesalius prepared his cadavers. But if you are correct that they weren't embalmed, I would very much doubt that they sat around for very long before, during or after dissection. Remember, it was only legal in those days to dissect executed criminals or paupers, and it was hard to get bodies, so they probably dissected them as soon as they got them. The dissection was done during class, and I'm not sure how long they kept the specimens afterward.

Besides, that was the 1500's. I'm not sure any of us could have handled the sights and smells of everyday life back then, much less an anatomy class in medical school.

I must say, I didn't exactly expect the thread to take this turn when I replied to your post about "cutting meat." We have wandered a bit off the reservation, haven't we? 🙂 I think it would be wise to bring this part of the conversation to a close.

 

[CookDeRosa]

But that only works when your specimens are REFRIGERATED. Cadavers in medical school are not refrigerated. They sit out on tables in the lab for the entire length of the anatomy course, which is 12 weeks at my school. There is no way they would keep for that long without preservatives.

...I think it would be wise to bring this part of the conversation to a close.

Hummm. Refrigerated classrooms (and freezer classrooms) are not unusual. We had several at the culinary school I attended, and have 1 in the college I teach for. It doesn't seem like a stretch to me. In any case, yes, I'm done too. 🙂